Cascading Style Jesus H. Christ

[Bozack]

Okay, I think I'm gonna be getting my own little blog area in a week or so, and I don't want to make it using my horrible 6th grade HTML. Apparently, there are these style sheet....THINGS? That cascade? That you embed in your pages? I know you people know what I'm talking about, because of that scripting tips post a few weeks back. You guys LOVE this stuff.
Is there a certain way to approach learning CSS? Did you guys derive special insight from any websites or books? I'm starting a "Web Persona" core studio class in a week or so, but given that the advisor assured my entire department of incoming freshmen that the class "isn't a web programming class" (which is interesting to me, because I'm IN COLLEGE FOR WEB PROGRAMMING), and I get the feeling it's going to be a lot of conceptual malarky and very little "actually doing stuff." So if I can learn anything special from the rough and tumble world of this message-board, well, all the better.

[jough]

Well, I'm all about CSS.  All of my web sites are CSSed out to the maxx.

First and foremost, don't forget your HTML!  Good HTML and good content make a good page.  

So always code your HTML first, and give meaningful names to your IDs that aren't based on where you want to put them on the page or what shape you think they will be.

For instance:

Code:

<div id="upperLeftBox">
<ul id="topMenu">
  <li id="firstMenuItem">Home Page Link</li>
  <li>List Item</li>
  <li>List item</li>
</ul>
</div>

is BAD, and this is more on track:

Code:

<div id="mainCategories">
<ul id="subDivisionMenu">
  <li id="menuHome">Home Page Link</li>
  <li>List Item</li>
  <li>List item</li>
</ul>
</div>

In any case, when learning CSS it's REALLY important to not lose sight of the fact that many people may not see your beautiful design.  When you code for good STRUCTURE in your HTML (or XHTML) document you're making good web sites that both humans and machines can understand, and that will degrade gracefully to older browsers, or even text-based browsers like PDAs and cell phones.

So make sure you not only know HTML markup, but also how to use it, how to properly nest things, and never use heading tags (h1, h2, h3, etc.) because of their SIZE - use them because they're the proper heading or sub-headings for your content.  Then you can style the size to be whatever you need.

Also, not everything in CSS has to be blocky.  For some amazing work that changes the entire layout of a site just by changing the style sheets, check out the CSS Zen Garden or to see a site that actually lets you change "themes" on the fly (i.e. change CSS style sheets to change the layout of the site) see the work I'm doing this week on Poetry X.com.

Feel free to IM me with any questions as you work.

[andalucia]

I'm starting a "Web Persona" core studio class in a week or so, but given that the advisor assured my entire department of incoming freshmen that the class "isn't a web programming class" (which is interesting to me, because I'm IN COLLEGE FOR WEB PROGRAMMING), and I get the feeling it's going to be a lot of conceptual malarky and very little "actually doing stuff."

A "Web Persona" class?  How, pray tell, does that work?

[Bozack]

Jough: thanks, man, this really, really helps! And it's good to know I can come cryin' to you when I fuck up.


Anda: ....christ, damned if I know. I signed up for the Design & Technology department, and I get to the class. It looks like Urban Outfitters threw up in there, man. I guess I should be glad that there are actual girls in there and everything, but I just feel out of my element. Where are the nerds? Plus, the advisor made sure to assure us that we wouldn't have to learn THAT much programming, and anyway the programming wasn't like MATH or anything. I just get a weird vibe from the place, and how often they say the word "conceptual." As happy as I am that I'll be learning about what persona means in the new internet age, I'd also like to learn something that I might, just maybe, get paid for one day.

[jough]

Get paid?

Dude, there's no money in web design.  It's all "[whipcrack]CODE, MONKEY, CODE DAMN YOU! [whipcrack]" and I'm all like "I'm typing as fast as I can!  Nine web designers can't design a site in a month, man!" and they're all like "Talk to the hand. [whipcrack]."

Man, it's awful.  Get an MBA.

[Bozack]

Hahaha, shit man! Don't tell me this shit! I JUST STARTED, I CAN'T GET DEPRESSED YET.
Yeah, I think I'm probably gonna focus in something else. Hopefully something high on pretention and low on actual work.

[arkabee]

apparently i fell off the turnip truck a little late this morning,
so,
let me get this straight:

you are going to college to "design" websites?

[Bozack]

you are going to college to "design" websites?

Ha, no, I'm going to college to take "design & technology" classes, and then hopefully specialize in (maybe) industrial design, or whatever I end up liking the most. Website stuff is just a class we have to take.

[jough]

Web design is required, huh?

Well, they could teach you interface and user interaction design, which would be good to learn.

If you get out of that class and the instructor or textbook hasn't mentioned Jakob Nielsen, or if you get done with your CSS unit and don't know who Häkon Lie is, you should promptly go to the cashier's office, demand a refund, and go to another school.

[AugustWest]

who Häkon Lie is...

Didn't he win the Extraordinarily Cool Name Contest (Umlaut Division) in 1986?

[jough]

Even cooler is that his name is pronounced like "how come?"

[CortJstr]

who Häkon Lie is...

Didn't he win the Extraordinarily Cool Name Contest (Umlaut Division) in 1986?

And once again AugustWest wins at the forum.

[andalucia]

Even cooler is that his name is pronounced like "how come?"

I respect anyone whose name basically forms a question or statement of any kind, no matter how broken the English.

[arkabee]

you are going to college to "design" websites?

Ha, no, I'm going to college to take "design & technology" classes, and then hopefully specialize in (maybe) industrial design, or whatever I end up liking the most. Website stuff is just a class we have to take.

oh.

i'm a tech.

i spend all day fixing things that didn't break, because they were supposed to work that way.

i bet they don't teach you this in school:
the more irritating the design flaw,
the more likely someone will be to track down the designer....

[Bozack]

Is XHTML simply "X-treme" brand HTML? Should I know it and utilize it? Bueller?