Cheney's wacky votes. Self-split to avoid punishment.

[Limmo]

So much for me being reasonable and staying out of this thread.

Scaremongers?  I got your scaremongers right here.

You think Pedro was cynical about Fox?  Would you like my copy of the Outfoxed DVD?  I will send it to you free of charge if you PM me your address, which I no longer have.

And check out this tidbit which appeared on the AP wire today.  AP claims it was a "test article."  Who writes test articles a month in advance?  "Left-leaning media"?

[arkabee]

i take the simple view that all of them are out to get me equally, just some of the time some of them might be doing a better job than the others.

i mean, it _is_ hard to find good help.

[Limmo]

i take the simple view that all of them are out to get me equally, just some of the time some of them might be doing a better job than the others. i mean, it _is_ hard to find good help.

Most of the time I agree with you.  But this election is different.  At least it feels that way to me.  On the other hand, I'm a liberal.

[arkabee]

i really don't know what i am, politically.  i like to think of myself as GDI, but i dunno.  However, i certainly don't see myself as a donkey or an elephant.

that being said, my parents are, and have been forever, staunch democrats.

the sad thing, though, is that for this presidential election, i really don't care about the things that i feel i should care about: policy, politcs, etc, etc.

it's just i fear and mistrust the current administration so much, that i'm ready to try what's behind Door Number 2 because i just can't take the current situation anymore.

it's entirely emotional rather than rational reaction to the elections.

[Limmo]

Fear and mistrust are a perfectly rational response to this administration.  Especially with this week's Iraq revelations and their responses to it.  

I call myself "liberal" even though I have conservative leanings in some areas.  Rather than running from the label, I'm embracing it.   On the other hand, I wouldn't call myself a Democrat - the current Democratic party makes me ill.  But I usually wind up voting for them anyway, because there are currently no good alternatives.  If I had to give letter grades, I'd give Kerry maybe a C-.  But Bush is the biggest F since McKinley, if not the biggest in American history.  Even Nixon had some things going for him in the foreign policy area...

I dunno, I just get too riled up about this stuff.

[JorgeFabregas]

I don't think a protest vote (they indeed did first vote for the bill you are alluding to when it included a measure to roll back some tax cuts to pay for said bill) is treasonous especially when it's just that, a protest vote...meaning it wouldn't have affected the outcome. You really buy that bit about Kerry being the most liberal senator?

In a recent issue, the magazine noted that Kerry and Edwards, busy campaigning, were absent from the Senate for many of the votes that went into the latest index, so only certain votes entered the formula. Although Kerry has scored consistently on the liberal end of the journal's index since coming to the Senate in 1985, 10 current senators have a higher lifetime average, the magazine said. Edwards, just finishing his first term, has a lifetime score that "puts him in the moderate wing of his party."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60419-2004Jul18.html

[Pedro Picasso]

Your cynical opinion of Fox notwithstanding, I didn't see too much reporting on the other networks about the supposed "draft bill" that the scaremongers were using to whip up the college kids into a frenzy.

My opinion of Fox is not cynical.  Negative, but not with the world-weary context that cynicism requires.  I simply have watched Fox News and found it to be unceasingly editorial in nature, speaking with the same voice on the same sides of the same issues, and claiming fairness and balance.  It's editorial programming masquerading as news.  That's false advertising.  Personally, I don't think they do that because they have a political agenda (though I don't discount it entirely).  I think they saw an opportunity to make money that only bends the rules a little, and took it.  That is my opinion based on my observations.

As to the "draft bill", I'm not sure how much publicity it warrants.  It seems to me like the more publicity it got, the more it would serve it's authors. But if you say it was under-reported, I will take your word.  I don't watch news on television, so I have no guage of their coverage of current stories.  

(I think it's a sneaky underhanded little trick, but House members are always pulling that.  They had drafted a bill at one point that basically said that the Supreme Court didn't have the power to strike down laws.  How would that have worked?  It would have been struck down immediately.  This junk legislation is always flying around the House.  Go to thomas.loc.gov and search for "sugar".)

The real problem here is that the news is supported by advertising dollars.  That makes them beholden to their advertisers, and it makes their business to draw viewers.  So what they report is what people will want to see, not necessarily what is important or relevant.  That's why it's always about either murder, beautiful women, or the murder of beautiful women.  The whole institution is ridiculous.  In this light, I shouldn't hate Fox News so much more than other outlets, but Fox so blatently panders to a conservative audience while at the same time claiming balance.  It's frustrating.

[AlohaDawg]

Limmo and Jorge:

You are awesome and I love you like brothers. I'm also pretty sure no one's mind is going to get changed here. But I do like the discourse and you are both articulate and rational.

I would fear and distrust Kerry more than Bush because flat out I don't believe Kerry. I don't think he can be trusted to hold a course because I think he's more interested in his own popularity and legacy than he is in the course of this Nation. I just don't think there is anything behind the image or his history that makes me see a person that I trust.

[Pedro Picasso]

I would fear and distrust Kerry more ...  a person that I trust.

I appreciate your expression of measured distrust of Kerry.  But I about pissed myself when I read your signature just after it.

I can see the pundits arguing over whether it is really two shits or three.

[AlohaDawg]

I voted for the two shits before I voted against them.

[JorgeFabregas]

I think voting like that would be kind of squishy.

[arkabee]

i take the simple view that all of them are out to get me equally, just some of the time some of them might be doing a better job than the others.

i mean, it _is_ hard to find good help.

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/11.html