Future of Party Politics

[Carlos del Vaca]

I'd like to see the McCains of our nation get together and split the Republican party.  Have them say "Look, we just can't support this Bush crap anymore."  I bet a lot of current Democrats would join them.

I voted for Arlen Specter once... once.

[Gimpson]

I'd like to see the McCains of our nation get together and split the Republican party.  Have them say "Look, we just can't support this Bush crap anymore."  I bet a lot of current Democrats would join them.

I voted for Arlen Specter once... once.

I seem to remember liking Arlen Specter some time back in the early or mid 90's.  Regardless of how this election turns out, I'll be sending an email to John McCain on November 3 asking him what I can do to get involved in his 2008 presidential campaign.

[Choop]

Remarkably, the thread from which this was split remained on topic for days. Let's see if we can keep it that way -- we'll make it like a game!

McCain won't run in '08 - he'll consider himself too old to last healthily through the term, and feel ashamed for reciting "I support the President and his policies" when his gut has been telling him "Fuck this jagoff" while his party superiors have been saying "If you don't spout belief in Dubya we'll pull all our funding and support." Basically, after Dubya smeared him all over in the '00 campaign, he kneeled in front of Rove, and hasn't moved because Michael Delong has a gun to his head.

What I'd like to see happen is that Green, Libertarian, Reform, and independent candidates take more and more smaller, more local offices: sheriff, state senator, U.S. Representative, etc., to take power away from the RNC and DNC bases, while building up their own. It's funny how so few minor-party supporters fail to realize that Congress can pretty much block the President from doing anything, if they mostly agree he shouldn't do anything. Putting Cobb or Badnarik in office in this election basically means we as the USA would be even less effective for four years than during the two that the GOP was obsessed with detailing Clinton's sex life.

[Asherdan]

What I'd like to see happen is that Green, Libertarian, Reform, and independent candidates take more and more smaller, more local offices: sheriff, state senator, U.S. Representative, etc., to take power away from the RNC and DNC bases, while building up their own.

Couldn't agree with that concept more.  The more local you get the more specific a canidates message can be.  If a winning agenda can be swung on the local level it paves the way to the next step 'cause there's some success and accomplishment to point to, there's something to grow on.  My main interest this election cycle involves the state propositions and posts like district school board, municipal water distict reps, city board of supervisors and county supervisors.

[Choop]

Right. It's like that year when the Senate and House were Republican-controlled and there was a Democrat in the White House. Nothing got done. Votes looked like this:

President supports bill X
No: 52
Yes: 48

Let's say, for argument's sake, Badnarik wins, and tries to repeal all gun-ownership legislation (a major platform point of Libertarianism). Dems would invoke the spectre of James Brady, and the votes would look like this:
Against POTUS: 87
With POTUS: 13

for each and every thing he sent to the senate - and the House would be divided much the same.

Kerry for Prez, and any third-party for anthing else. The only way to change our system is to use it to change itself.

Other democracies/republics (France, Germany, etc.) have destroyed and re-written their entire constitutions several times over. We don't because ours was written to provide stability to the government and the ruling class; theirs were written with U.S. influence to provide more liberty to the people and less stability to the government. That's why you hear of "The Fifth Republic of France" -- because that's how many times they've rewritten their constitution.

et al. ad nauseum

[AlohaDawg]

As long as the two main parties continute alternating and sharing power (more or less) no third party will ever have enough money or support to make a difference. Ever.

It's about power, influence, and money. The amount of money corporate America kicks in to both major sides will more than destroy the nickels and dimes the people can kick in to support the doomed candidacies of even the most knowledgable and charismatic of third party candidates.

Business drives politics and business will never stray from the two main parties because to do so is to back a losing hoss, and they will never do that.

[Choop]

AD, you seem to be thinking only on the grand scale: Local candidates don't really get that much help from the parties; basically only the training of aides and other assistants & gofers. If I'm a cop, and have served fifteen years, and decided to run for Deputy Sheriff, it wouldn't really matter to what party I subscribe, because it's not that hotly contested an office. Let's say that I win the office, because it could happen, and over the next ten to twenty years I get a bunch of party compatriots to run for the school board, the county commission, treasurer, etc., all while serving as Sheriff, and then throw in my hat for the election for Mayor or County Commissioner. Let's also say I do this without any major controversies striking me or my compatriots. See the endorsements I'd have from the local non-big-two officials, whose names and records are known? See the corporate backing I'd have by tying myself into the community and associating my performance with my party? Let's say I've portrayed myself as Libertarian the whole time, but made a little deal of party to the people, and a big deal of issues, and let the people settle it at the polls. See how the big parties could be eroded from the edges?

Imagine this happening in Tempe, Dayton, Albany, Hartford, Redmond, San Bernadino, Missoula, etc. See how small cities could be good launching points for small parties? That's how the big parties could be overthrown: in small doses over a long time. Another twenty years could see a multi-party, coalition-type Congress which safeguards civil and human rights while neither overregulating nor underregulating businesses, made up of a big group of people that would make unnecessary war damned near impossible.

[Limmo]

I got your Republican party split right here.

[jough]

I vote for Spector because he is a very powerful Senator and he is from my state.  So when contracts are awarded he does his best to make sure they build shit in PA.

He also was saddled as being the architect of the "single bullet theory" back when he was a young pup - but that attribution was more unfortunate than devious on his part.

I'd vote for John McCain in a heartbeat.  I'd be EXCITED about voting for him.  I wish he was running this time.

The Republican party is known for its fiscal conservativism and prudence overseas.  Is Bush even a Republican really?

[JorgeFabregas]

I vote for Spector because he is a very powerful Senator and he is from my state.  So when contracts are awarded he does his best to make sure they build shit in PA.

I wish the voters of South Dakota had a similar rational...this is the argument Daschle made and it's true.

[Gimpson]

I vote for Spector because he is a very powerful Senator and he is from my state.  So when contracts are awarded he does his best to make sure they build shit in PA.

I wish the voters of South Dakota had a similar rational...this is the argument Daschle made and it's true.

Well, I for one won't be shedding too many tears over Daschle.  He's a hack of the highest order, and having the head lopped off the Democratic party might turn out to be the best thing that's happened to it.  

I've always assumed that I'd want to work for change in the Republican party and try to strengthen their libertarian wing.  Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to try to do the same thing with the Democrats.  After four more years of Bush with a Republican congress, I bet the Democrats will be able to make a pretty legitimate case for themselves as the party of fiscal restraint, and they're already right on the social issues.

[Carlos del Vaca]

Well, I for one won't be shedding too many tears over Daschle.  He's a hack of the highest order, and having the head lopped off the Democratic party might turn out to be the best thing that's happened to it.

The Dems need a minority leader from a more solid Democratic state (hey, how 'bout that John Kerry of Massachusetts), who can talk about issues from a truly Dem perspective on the national stage without having to worry about how it will play back at home.

[Nabubrush]

I vote for Spector because he is a very powerful Senator and he is from my state.  So when contracts are awarded he does his best to make sure they build shit in PA.

This is why Ted Stevens and Don Young keep getting elected in Alaska. Alaska gets more federal dollars per capita than any other state in the union. I guess people can't be blamed for getting while the getting is good. Actually, part of Lisa Murkowski's campaign was that she should be elected so her fellow Senator can keep bringing home the bacon.

[jough]

Alaska gets more federal dollars per capita than any other state in the union.

It would be hard for that not to be true, though, considering that only 12 people live in Alaska.

[CortJstr]

I vote for Spector because he is a very powerful Senator and he is from my state.  So when contracts are awarded he does his best to make sure they build shit in PA.

This is why Ted Stevens and Don Young keep getting elected in Alaska. Alaska gets more federal dollars per capita than any other state in the union.

Don't residents get somekind of tax kickback just for living there, also?