Thread to talk about work and your philosophy on it

[AlohaDawg]

Many of you know the sordid tale of our non-move to LA and the furor that followed. So I found a spot at HMSA, a health insurer, which was always meant to be temporary. So I've  been basically looking around for a few months now, and I also have a placement agency working for me. He seems convinced he can find me $80K/year. Which would be OK with me.

So right now, I'm working for $20K below my previous employ, beans and rice, etc. We've managed to find a way to consolidate our considerable credit card debt and open an IRA which we can borrow from to get my wife's home business going.

Now I think it may be an appropriate time to seek Job-vergnugen somewhere beyond this cubicle farm of despair.

I came from Public Health - trained and worked for 14 years, including grad school while working full time. However, riches, glory and fame are not to be had there. I stumbled across a job opening yesterday that is a nearly EXACT fit to what I do well and what I like to do. The only thing I can assume is the third side of the triangle, compensation may be extremely short.

Do I apply for it and decline it knowing it's a great job for me if the pay is too low?

Do I apply for it and take it because it's perfect even at low pay?

Do I let the opportunity go by and avoid the psychological drama?

The job is managing almost 6 million dollars in grant money along with programs in law enforcement, education, and treatment for Crystal Meth Addiction.

So, what's a brutha to do? Have any of you been in this type of situation? What did you do?

[wombat]

You have to at least apply. It's better than always wondering what would have happened. You can decide later not to take it if it's offered.  Maybe it won't be as great as it sounds and you won't feel bad about turning it down, which would be a good thing to know.  You can't really know what decision you're making if you don't apply.  

I think happiness at work is more important than money.  God knows I've been turning my life upside down and making myself crazy looking for happiness at work. I'm not enjoying the psychodrama either.  But in the long run, forty hours a week is too big a fraction of your life to spend unhappy.

Of course, it's easy for me to say.  I don't have a family to support.  I have a husband who makes tons more money than I could ever make.  

Still I think, wouldn't your family rather eat beans and rice with a happy dad, than lobster with someone whose soul is dead?  Again, it's easy for me to say - it's been so long since I really had to eat the beans and rice.  But we all know that if you're cooking them they'll be really good beans and rice.

But, you can decide all that later.  Apply.  It doesn't make sense to burn your bridges in front of you.

[Pedro Picasso]

Still I think, wouldn't your family rather eat beans and rice with a happy dad, than lobster with someone whose soul is dead?  

I'm young.  Telling you about my job experience isn't going to help, but I can give you my perspective as the son of a salary man.  My dad's worked at IBM for close to 40 years now.  Within the company he's had jobs all the way down the line from dreaming up a product, to drawing specs, creating, testing, and selling it.  He's been through many rounds of layoffs and deadlines.

As the third of his five kids I can tell you that when he was unhappy at his work we all knew it.  I love my dad, and I think he's an awesome guy, but he's had some really bad years at work, and I remember them.  He was grouchy, quicker to anger, frustrated, more often tired.  I didn't know why this happened, and he didn't get violent with me.  But it came between us, all of us.  I've talked about it with my brothers and sister, and we had all noticed it.

Poverty hurts families, but I don't think we're actually talking about poverty here, and I can tell you that plain old unhappiness is also a kick in the kidneys as far as relationships are concerned.

So I'd suggest: good money or bad, a job has to either be short on hours or long on gratification.  

I've always marked you as an awesome dad, a good husband, a dedicated employee, and a so-so lover.  I'm sure you'll do great.

Good luck, Dawg.

[pmcd9]

Formerly I would have said suck it up, be a man, take the money, your family needs it, because I came from terrible job with terrible pay.  I would have taken any job to get paid.   I've since moved to a pretty good job with decent pay.  I loved my job and it was a pleasure to go to work.  That is until December of this past year when they moved me to another location under the supervision of a complete and utter jackass who is a fuck*ng idiot to boot.  I really hate my job now and i've become a totally unmotivated drone as a result.  Still I want the money, I need the money, but I am almost to the point where I will chuck the money to escape a shitty work environment.  I would quit my job today, but for two fears I have.  I might have to take a pay cut and my new boss, whoever that may be, could quite easily be as big of a dick as my current boss.  It's the whole devil you know thing.  I've developed strategies to deal with my situation, which is mostly I just kill 'em with kindness, but my hair is starting to turn gray.  So if I were starting fresh like you, I would definitely take the job that was more satisfying and you were happy to be doing.  They say money can't buy happiness, but the pursuit of money, as I am discovering, can sure lead to misery.

Best of Luck.

~Paul

[V-Adore]

I'm not going to lie to you: compensation is important. I mean, if they're not paying you enough to support your family on some level, it's not viable. That said, if the wage is still livable, why not? You might as well apply, and job satisfaction is worth a pay hit as long as you can still live on what you're making.

(To add the obligatory personal anecdote: when I was 13, my father decided to quit his dead-end management job, in which he had not been happy for some time, and get his history doctorate. This necessitated a 3000+-mile move and several lean years in high school, one of which we were supported by my mother working at ShopKo. That said, we got through, and now m father teaches history and loves his job. It's been an absolute sea change, and I'm gad we did the whole mishegoss.)

[AlohaDawg]

My wife's dad walked away from a job as a manager in a chemical plant to sell shoes in Florida. There was an intervention that eventually led to his being one of the original developers and patent holders for powder coating processes...point is, sometimes I'm totally wrong and the destination is more important than the journey.

This is the case when the journey just flat out sucks.

Good for your dad, though- If I can borrow from that story and call this year the lean one, hopefully we'll get to that happy place in '06.

PS I am loving the posts in this thread and I wish the number of posts was closer than the number of views. Thanks guys.

[Choop]

A year ago, I was rapidly becoming a failing entrepreneur. When I finally had a chance at a job, two opportunites came at once: the first, working on a short-term contract for oodles of cash, at that hourly, and with many available hours to be billed, but working for a money-hungry domestic conglomerate; the second, building infrastructure to help with AIDS research in the federal government, with no more and no less than 40 hours a week for half the money, all the red tape I'd escaped from the state government (my prior job), and a whole hell of a lot of feel-good and long-term job security.

The important question, and that most easily obviated by the dichotomies presented by V and you, Dawg, is whether you're doing professionally what you wish to be doing. Is doing what you're doing professionally able to give you what you desire, and will you enjoy yourself while you work toward what you desire?

I ended up taking the first job, because I realized that the service provided by the giant corporation also facilitates good causes, be it in a more subtle manner. The originally three-week-long contract is almost a year old, and I'm as happy as I've ever been in a job, save the pizza joint in high school. Sure, there's a couple idiots on my team, and some jackasses in upper/middle management, but there will be everywhere.

Wombat's got a hell of a good point: apply, consider carefully, learn as much as possible about the position before you decide it's not for you. You have to be happy, man, but you have to keep your dog in biscuits, as we say around here.

[Imperator Severn]

It is my dream to win the lottery, then do nothing but watch movies and drink all day until I die of renal failure.

[wombat]

This is the case when the journey just flat out sucks.

A wise man once said to me, "Sometimes you have to swim through shit to get where you're going."

[Imperator Severn]

A wiser man once said, "Dude, that's a lake of shit.  Ain't nothin' worth swimmin' through no shit, bro."

[Choop]

A wiser man once said, "Dude, that's a lake of shit.  Ain't nothin' worth swimmin' through no shit, bro."

Well played.

[V-Adore]

Choop also raises a good point. The intentions of the employer is to be considered -- and for that matter, is a job you could get used to? Work doesn't have to be love at first sight as long as you can grow into the position and you feel you're doing something worthy.

[Asherdan]

I agree with the sentiment of some of the prior posts (wombat/carlos/others) on the importance of fulfillment in your employment, but sometimes you gotta serve your time in purgatory. If the wage level is going to impact your family more, you may have to take one for the team.

I had my last company die out from under me in February this year. I took a position in April that was on prospect, meaning I'd do shitty manual ass work at 60% of my former salary until they got corporate approval to hire me permanent for what I really do. My contacts there meant well, but as the months dragged on there were revenue issues that held off that plan. The low wage high labor situation paid off in me a whole lot like Carlos has described his Pops. So I started beating the bushes for openings again. I interviewed and was actually offered four other positions in that time but they were what I considered lateral moves, I'd be just as lowly paid after the new job buzz wore off although a little happier with the job(s). So I turned them down for the devil I knew (and could break loose from to interview easily).

My advice, based upon your options, is to apply for it and decline if you can't get in the ballpark your family needs in salary. You've prolly had the need vs. want discussion already, IMO a great position is worth it if it meets your basic needs salary wise 'cause of the other benefits derived from not being a miserable prick at the end of the day.

My unsolicited advice is to hold out for a position your education, training and experience have qualified you for, all the while strangling the miserable side as much as you can, I drove the long way home and sang along to old punk cassettes for the duration to burn off the unrulies. 'Cause guys our age and with our practical experience don't need to settle, we need to suck it up and gut it out until we find that good spot.

Imperator Severn: Your wiser man was a pussy, I'd shovel shit with my eyelids to keep my family in whatsits.

ALSO: Last Tuesday I started at Panasonic doing what I really do with a bunch of freakin' pros. Found my fuck*ng good spot.  Y'all will too.

[pmcd9]

Congratulations Ash, I need to find me some pros.

~Paul

[AugustWest]

I really don't want to hijack AD's thread and make this about ME.  But this is highly pertinent to my current situation.  I've put off posting in this thread all day thinking about what to say, partly because I want to say what I think clearly and partly making sure I know exactly what it is I think.

As many of you may know, I'm a lawyer.  Until April of this year I worked for state government in a non-civil service (i.e. managment) position.  I lasted 18 months in the first Republican administration in our state in 30 years before I was fired.

Anyway, when I left I had an idea for a business that I thought would suit me especially well.  I've spent the last 6 months or so working on it -- perhaps not as diligently as I possibly could, but I've put many many hours into it.

And it's not working.  It's becoming blindingly plain that I can't make a living like this.  So, I've spent the past several weeks dealing with that fact in my emotionally-retarded manner.  I must have income.  I have a family, a mortgage, college tuition and retirement on the horizon, and dammit I'm accustomed to my lifestyle, such as it is.  I need money.

On the other hand, I am almost entirely unmotivated by greed.  There are lots of lucrative opportunities for lawyers like me who are willing to give up their personal and family life plus their morality and their immortal soul.  But that's just not me.

For 10 years government work was a pretty happy compromise for me.  Sure it had its soul deadening Kafkaesque bureaucratic moments.  But it had equally gratifying good points.  Unfortunately, that option isn't open to me at the moment and likely won't be for another 2.5 years or so.

What else.  I've learned (yet again) that I do not have the self-discipline or internal drive to work entirely by myself.  Much as I hate to admit it, a structured work environment and a regular paycheck is benficial to me.  On the other hand, after 6 months or so in that enviroment I'll start feeling stifled and bored again.

So here I am, at the end of my rope.  I've about exhausted my financial resources and I'm still looking for that perfect situation which provides me enough financial stability while allowing me sufficient freedom to avoid crippling ennui.  

I don't know what to do.  I have well-developed and valuable skills, but no way of capitalizing on them.  I have extensive responsibilities which I take very seriously.  I'm too lazy to work 80 hours a week and I value my soul too much to do some stuff that would make me easy money.  I have resumes out but the phone ain't ringing.

I keep waiting for something to break.  I've been in similar situations in the past and when things got crucial, I'd get lucky.  Things are getting crucial.

So, I've bared my soul to my friends.  I'm not looking for advice, really, or even sympathy.  I view both of those as essentially worthless, if pleasant to indulge in.

What I'm looking for is destiny.  Fate.  Kismet.  Dare I say it... Networking.  42.  Fnord.  Make something weird and wonderful happen to me.

Sorry about the self-absorbed monolouge, but this is about the only place I feel comfortable spouting this crap.