Thread to talk about work and your philosophy on it

[sjlimmer]

b) None of the other answers really worked for me.  Everyone has to figure out what is best for them. I'm guessing that in AD's case, having the family not starve tops the list, while for me I'd give up most anything to keep on in my line of work.

That's putting a high value on your work. So I guess I'm wondering, what answers can you think of that might work?

I'm wondering, what's your line of work?

Ok, so I exaggerate a bit.

I'm a postdoctoral researcher. I do about the same work as the grad students in my lab, but I get paid (ever so slightly) more, because I already have the PhD. Basically, I'm like a research chemist, but without the fancy title (or paycheck). With my degree, I could easily be making $85k+ a year in the semiconductor industry. I'd also be on call 24/7, put in 80 hr weeks, and not actually be doing any research. To me, that sounds miserable (even though I work 6-7 days/wk in the lab anyway).

As a grad student, I lived in Seattle, which I loved. It wasn't the perfect city for me, but it was close. But I gave that up to move to a tiny hick town in the center of nowhere, so that I could work for a well-regarded boss and do interesting research. I make barely more money than I did as a TA, and I HATE HATE HATE this town. But most days I'm pretty happy, because I love what I do.

But see, I don't have a wife and kids to support. My gf makes enough money at what she does to support herself, and she's not the type to let me "support" her anyway. So for me, doing what I love (at work) pays enough to let me do what I love (eat, drink, be with my gf) when I'm not at work. But that's just me.

Of course, this job is only temporary (~ 9 mo left), so eventually I'll have to either take an industry job, or look for a research position. Guess which I plan on doing?

[V-Adore]

But I didn't go to law school.  I studied English, Philosophy, and Creative Writing.  These things don't necessarily make me employable (although neither does Math or Biology these days, it seems)..

The thing about most of the sciences is that they are employable, but they require specialized graduate education to actually be employable at a meaningful level. The situation around here is pretty simple: all of us science dorks are getting our degrees in very general fields (Biology, Physics, and so on) and will be going to graduate school to get our training in our real field (behavioral neuroscience, orbital engineering, &etc.). We'll be employable eventually, but oh, it's a long road to Wellville.

[Va]

I read two books this year that I am using to form the roadmap for the future of my family: They are The Complete Tightwad Gazette by Amy Dacyczyn and How to Survive Without A Salary: Learning to Live the Conserver Lifestyle by Charles Long.  It is possible to get off the golden treadmill.

[Bozack]

I've gushed about this in probably 8 threads by now, but I finally got a job. I'm a fiction clerk at a Barnes & Nobles, working mornings, three days a week. And...it's actually really great. How sad is that, huh? I sold out to the man, for $7.50 an hour, I have to be at work at 8 am, which, for me, is the asscrack of dawn, and I promised my boss I'd work through the holidays, but ho-lee shit do I like work. Everyone I work with is really cool, I get to touch books all day, I get a discount on books, I can even take home hardcovers, and I'm done, every day, by 4:30, so I can come home and do my college applications or play Vice City or whatever. I don't know; I doubt I'd like it if I was rocking the 40 hours a week, and the honeymoon will probably be over by Christmas-time, but for right now, it's really good for me. Weird, huh?

[wombat]

I get to touch books all day

This makes me weep with heartbreaking hope for the future of civilization.  Thank you, Bozack.

[side_show]

Hi Auggie and Dawgy

Well as some of you may remember, I made the terrifying leap from high paying Mastercard employee to full time artist about a year and a half ago.  After about four months as a full time writer, working in my own little private office, I found the stress of depending on me, myself and I alone to pay the bills much too much.  Instead of taking another soul crushing job that would pay well, but... crush my soul, I opted for something a little better.  I found a part-time job "beside" my field of preference, as a contract employee with a 20 hr work week in a managerial position at a theatre where I design theatrical workshops for children, hire and manage the people who teach them, and track a budget.  Yes it's not the exact match to being a full time artist, but I have one half time job that just barely pays the bills.  The fact that I need to make a little more money if I want the creature comforts and do more than just scrape by pushes me to find the work that I love - yes I make about a quarter as much $$ in the afternoon as I do in the morning for the exact same, if not more hours, but I get to do what I really want to do.  And I fill the other half of my day persuing the work that feeds my soul, which I've come to recognise is far more valuable than any monitary reward.  I have just the right mix of stablity and freedom, order and chaos.  I voted for happiness, because even though it's about balance, I know exactly where my priorities lie, and if it came down to chosing between being in rehearsal for a day, or in writting up contracts, I know exactly where I'm using my sick day.  I would suggest, at least to Auggie, and possibly to Dawgy that it is about finding a way to balance your life, but that the most important goal should be your own happiness.  I have absolutely no regrets from leaving the bank, but I soon came to see that floating out in space (like in your case Aug.) was far too scary a proposition for me.

I don't understand the world of Lawyering, but is it possible to work for a firm (or whatever) part time, and persue your own interests part-time? Same goes for you AD.  Could you do the half/half thing?

Both of you, don't crush your soul, do what matters.  My dad is a man's man, my mom a stay at home mom.  My dad wasn't an inward looking guy.  His dad (my grandpa) killed himself when I was in my late teens without giving any indication of emotion turmoil .  Since dad was the product of his dad's mind set of quiet suffering for the cause... well you can figure it out.  Having come from a home where daddy paid all the bills, didn't talk about feelings, and eventually had a break down, I know I would have rather had my dad emotionally available to me than a car when I was sixteen.  I would have given it all up - I would have walked to school, worn thrift shop clothes and gotten a weekend job cleaning out stalls at the race track - I'd have done anything to prevent the hole in the middle of my house where the happiness should've been.  I knew my dad hated his job even back when I was eight - so don't think you're fooling your kids if you're going to follow that route.  He didn't have to say a word for me to know he was miserable - kids are very sensitive, they pick up on these things quicker than most adults.

As you meditate on all the material things that a high paying job can give your kids, remember that the central things that your kids want are for you to love them, and for you to be happy.  Notice how neither of these things have anything to do with money.  Yes, it's about to be Christmas, and they want an X-box, but seriously.  Seriously.  

Being a father, and being a man, is about having courage - have the courage to face up to the lie of the stereotypical role of bringer of the bacon, even if your peers still hold it as the bastion of truth.  Being strong for your kids doesn't mean suffering for you kids.  Fuck those other people who look at you with a critical eye.  If your children go to bed at night knowing they are loved, that home is a happy place, then their souls are nourished.  It took me years and years to learn that I needed to be happy to survive, because the model I saw at home was the exact opposite of that.  I accepted suffering as a way of life, because that was the model I was presented with.  I had horrible, painful relationships with boys who broke my heart.  I stayed at a job for six months where I was being sexually harassed and bullied.  I sank into a depression so deep that is nearly killed myself.  Only because I loved books, and have always been introspective, did I realize after five years of self inflicted pain that I finally needed to step back and see that I was driving myself into the ground.  I chose the path of suffering, just like my dad taught me how.  I could have just as easily followed that same path to it's natural end.  Do you want your kids to choose suffering in their own lives, like you're considering doing now?  Parents need to make choices that nourish their own self esteem and well-being - not as selgiraffe acts toward personal happiness - but because their children are watching.  Your children are always watching, and will pattern their behavior after what they see.  Plain and simple.  If you want your children to be kind to themselves, then be kind to yourself.  

An old-y, but a good-y: teach by example.

[AlohaDawg]

As an example for living my life, I fired my dad years ago. It's harder to get away from than you might think and I still find myself shaking my head. But I still talk to my folks and, in standard fashion, we find that they are much better grandparents than they were parents for the most part - but we are hardly objective.

As far as doing what I love as a part time job: not feasible at this point in my life. In fact, part time anything is not feasible because I need to provide health insurance for my family. Also, I live on an island where 75% of the jobs are in the hospitality industry.

Public Health-type work (non-profit world work) is what I'm looking at right now as the change, that will put me back in a comfort zone and I think also on a track to advance myself. That would make me happy but I'm pretty sure I'm not making my family miserable along the way - I'm very good at divorcing myself from the 8 hours I spend in the belly of the beast and there a million distractions when you live somewhere like Hawaii.

[Bozack]

My parents basically told me that they weren't fit for parenting me anymore after I turned 16. My dad also has a lot of deep-seated suffering problems- his father was a doctor, and his father before him, and his father before him. So, of course, he had to be a doctor. Once he became an internist, his father hired him for his practice...at minimum wage. He hired his own son as a physician for MINIMUM WAGE. So, to finally pull away from his dad, he became a gastroenterologist.
I always wondered, when I was a kid, why my dad did his job every day, which basically amounted to staring up peoples asses- exactly what he got from it. And I found out later- almost nothing. He's a very good doctor, and he likes doing a good job and it puts bread on the table (another funny anecdote- when I was nine, my dad started telling me that our family was almost broke. He continued to tell me this until I was 15, when I saw a spare copy of his income tax returns), but everything else about the job he hates.
For you guys...I have no advice, being as I am probably the worst person on the board to ask about finances or familial obligations or what I love to do. I want to say....follow your heart? God, that sounds awful. But when you make your decision, have confidence in that decision, because y'all are awfully smart.

[Imperator Severn]

My father was a policeman, and his father was a gas station owner, and his father before him was a mechanic, and his father was an Indian fighter.


So obviously I have to become a columnist.

[misterqueue]

My father is a mailman, my mother is a baker (From a long line of bakers);  very sesame street prole for life type of jobs.

I work with techy things.. I don't know why exactly.. and I hate my job in ways.. but dammit it pays...

I dream of running off to an eastern block country and teaching English as a second language and living on the cheap.. but dammit I love high speed and liquor.. I really do.

[Bozack]

Dude, if I know anything about the eastern bloc, liquor and driving recklessly are like national icons.

[slink]

My father was an educational psychologist, my mother an administrator/publisher/philosopher.
So I became a web developer. Eventually full time.

I hate work though. I plan to not have to work for too long. I do many creative things and would enjoy my life far more if I could focus on those.

[Imperator Severn]

Dude, if I know anything about the eastern bloc, liquor and driving recklessly are like national icons.

He speaks the truth, excellency.

And that's a great idea.  I'd love to live somewhere like Belarus, because you can't live in Belarus without wither becoming an alchoholic or the leader of a revolution.  That's just how it is.