(Politics) Upcoming Presidential Election Thread: As Objective as Possible

[AlohaDawg]

I'm generally considered a conservative but I have more liberal leanings on some social issues.

I can go down the libertarian road a short way but I run into the wall when I start seeing social cost that is generally borne by everyone (or, at least, everyone paying taxes) stemming from a small number of people's behavior. That's where the 'do what you want' thing kind of falls by the wayside for me, but for the most part, that can be allayed nearly completely if there were a higher level and standard of personal responsibility generally held, modeled, applied and occasionally enforced.

[wombat]

My super-knee-jerk-liberal english teacher said "daniel! I love it! it's so true!"
I really wanted to tell her that I almost used her as an example of how people who I agree with are often just as closed-minded, in their own way.

Oh for sure.  There's nothing worse or more humorless than the most extreme left-winger.

[Carlos del Vaca]

On the whole celebrities-in-politics thing:  as with anyone, it depends on how much they care and how much they bother to learn.  As opposed to everyone else, they have the time, the money, and the media coverage to make it known what they believe.  So I don't begrudge anyone their platform.  Some of them are extremely thoughtful and knowledgeable--Janeane Garafalo usually comes off looking smarter than blowhards like O'Reilly (who we should somehow care what he thinks?).

If you don't care what they think, don't pay attention.  Too often, it's again "Don't express opinions that I don't agree with"--did the people who cursed the Dixie Chicks also tell Charlie Daniels to stop expressing his opinions?

[Asherdan]

If you don't care what they think, don't pay attention.

Agreed with most of the time. Occaisionally someone in politics will make a flaming asshole (to me) statement so I won't vote or send money to them. If it's a celeb, I might choose not to throw my limited discretionary income at their product. I have zero sympathy in that case when the celeb cries about their right to speak being muzzled and they're being 'punished' when the real impact is self-inflicted to their wallet.

Examples:

Choosing Brooks & Dunn over Dixie Chicks tickets - OK
Parading a banner outside of the Dixie Chicks performance venue urging them to shut their piehole and get in the kitchen - Not OK

[AlohaDawg]

Yeah, alienating your fan base and then crying censorship is pretty senseless.

Running a successful business of any kind means keeping your customers happy, comfortable, and wanting more. Charlie Daniels' fans listen possibly because they appreciate his comments. He's aware enough to understand his opinions are acceptable so he can say them without fear of backlash. Natalie Maines can have any belief she wants and say whatever she wants, but she didn't seem to be prepared to take personal responsibility for her statements - and externalizing the blame for what happened next only made things worse.

I like their music, though.

That's the problem with so many performers becoming self-appointed opinion leaders - it puts so many people in conflict because you like what they do on stage or screen, but now you have to reconcile that with your views and values. Some people can't do it. In some cases, even if you probably don't agree with someone politically, you can applaud their actions and purpose - it's hard to be mad at John Melon Cougarcamp or Willie Nelson for working on Farm Aid, or Bob Geldof for some of the big benefits he has organized. Because, usually, the politics stay more or less out of it. That's commendable to me.

[Asherdan]

...John Melon Cougarcamp...

Alright, this makes multiple times I've seen this dude disparaged here for his morphing stage name.

Wikipedia explains all!

Short version: He got pressured into 'Cougar' by his first label and got back to his real name as soon as he could.

Now quit picking on a guy who offers a dude a popsicle on a hot day before he gets his own.

[AlohaDawg]

Dude, we own his music, we've seen his concerts. Just funnin' with the boy from Seymour who has displayed more social consciousness with his actions than most performers I know of.

[AugustWest]

Like they held a gun to his head.  He'll always be Johnny Cougar to me.

[pmcd9]

Like Jough, i'm liberal on some issues and conservative on others.  I've no love for the democrats, but I can't stand the republicans.  The way I see it, probably the biggest political problem we have in this country is coprorate special interest that have both sides of the aisle in their pocket.  It's hard for the Dems to get upset about the Repubican's bending over for Halliburton when their on their knees sucking Pfizer's dick.

As for Susan Sarandon, she has really nice tits so I'll vote for whoever she tells me to.

~Paul

[Doc]

Susan Sarandon? Really?
I think I'd need at least, I don't know let's say someone like Christina Ricci, someone who has hotness but could convince me she's actually vaguely knowledgable. Actually I've just kind of got Christina Ricci on the brain today so maybe that's not a great example.
Susan Sarandon though is kind of in the same space in my head as Goldy Hawn.

[Mite]

I'll go back and read your ideologies in a minute, 'cause I am genuinely interested, but I really don't think the Dems will allow Hillary to run. There really is no way she could win, even against the most unpopular republican they could dig up. She'd mobilize the conservatives, and alienate the liberals. She leans so far center she'll send even more nutcases over to Nader/whoever the leftie will be this time. I don't even know if I could vote for her. Because of this, I really hope there are some dudes up there in NY with enough of a sack to tell her to stay out of it.

Now an Edwards/Obama ticket? With Russ Feingold thrown in there someplace for flavor? Maybe not this time, but in a few years? I'd quit my job and follow them around in a van, selling my karma and pb & j sandwiches for weed in the parking lots of their speeches.

And August - my parents both voted for Nixon in 1972! Die-hard democrats ever since - I guess they learned their lesson.

[Asherdan]

As for Susan Sarandon, she has really nice tits so I'll stare at them and not hear a word she says.

This is how it scans for me.

To echo Jough and Paul, I'm a split, too. Socially left-center and fiscally hard right. And to echo 'Dawg, the libertarians always go a little too far into unintended consequence land.

I think what would really rev me up is a party level government reform push. I'm looking for canidates, from local to national, who have a high focus on administrative and process improvement in meaningful and measurable ways. I'll even look a little harder at people who take OPM seriously, and not as a given.

[AlohaDawg]

Reading these posts and Ash's last in particular, it seems to me like the manner in which we practice Democracy in the US could be part of the problem since it invests so much in one party or the other. Although I think our system is more effective (in terms of making decisions and getting things done (not factoring in what gets done, just how it does)) because of this, a parliamentary government would adjust for that concentration of power by usually requiring a coalition of parties to have the majority of power invested in them. It's a bit slower, requires a lot more compromise, and often results in elections earlier than planned, it's an interesting comparison.

[Ben-San]

Oh, man, a multiparty system would be grelicious. I would be all over that. Having more than two functional parties on a national scale would be frikking awesome.

[pmcd9]

I watched Nashville last night.  That's some good stuff.

~Paul