Some nights everything seems good, then you read one thing..

[slink]

A webcomic in Singapore raises money for sick children in Seattle, a gamer's charity drive raises over a hundred thousand dollars in toys and donations - and then some dumb fucker pulls a firearm at a Counter-Strike tournament. This is a communique to all dumb fuckers - we're trying to do something here, idiots. Do you think you could maybe not kill anybody for the next, oh, twelve days? I know it's hard.

Over at Penny Arcade where they're running the fantastic Child's Play charity drive, which I have just eben filled with positivity from the success of, there's mention of this.
I watched a program last night, not entirely willingly, about the connection to hip-hop and the rise of gun crime in the UK. And someone was fuck*ng dumb enough to say (and I paraphrase) "Why do people connect this crime with rap, when no one's trying to connect it to violent films, or violent computer games".
fuck*ng MORON!
I really don't feel games have any correlation to violent crime. I believe that some people are so fucked in the head, psychologically that is (what a professional term), that they will be affected by something like a film or game. And I believe that parents need to, what was it, oh yes, actually take an interest in being a fuck*ng parent, and monitor what their kid watch/play/do. I mean, a 9 year old with a game like Vice City, just isn't good parenting!
I don't believe that on the whole, someone who wants to commit a violent crime, is going to get anything from a computer game that actually influences what they then do. I don't believe that someone who hasn't thoughtof committing a violent crime will do so because they played a fuck*ng game.
Yes, I'm biased. I play violent computer games. I watch violent movies. I listen to musicians who speak of death. I also play non-violent computer games, watch non-violent movies and listen to music about bunnies.
But at the end of the day, who's going to remind the right wing, filthy rich, quite-probably-heavily-religious-in-the-Southern-way lawyers that people who play computer games care about kids they've never met, or known existed?
I just hope someone gets a chance to. Because I am with Tycho, the argument over computer games and the link to violent crime isn't going to go away without getting a whole lot worse first.

[/rant somewhat over]

[AugustWest]

I consider violent video games a method to vent negative energy which might otherwise be directed toward actual violence.

[V-Adore]

I tend to agree with August on this one -- it's a venting thing, pure and simple. Of course, I play D&D, so what do I know about safe gaming?

(Three more levels and I get to learn the real magic!)

[slink]

I consider violent video games a method to vent negative energy which might otherwise be directed toward actual violence.

A damn good point. And a technique I use on occasion. Although not an argument I would like to have to use in discussion of the topic. It just feels, not quite right...

And to follow u pfrom V there, I don't think it's all about venting. I mean, I played Quake because it was a kickass game. I played Max Payne 2 recently because it was a good game, with a good, silly plot and fun gameplay dynamic. I played Soldier of Fortune 2 MP because it was a pretty good DM gaming dynamic. The SP was only ever effective as venting, since it wasa shit SP game.
But I also play Asheron's Call 2 as an RPG experience, and to keep my best mate company. I play X2 for that spacey, drifty, good old days of Elite feel. And I play all the old LucasArts games for the fun. Oh and something like Mafia that could be considered violent, was a stunningly filmic game, as ought to be Doom 3 when it's released.
So it's not all about venting, but it is, and can be a big part of it.
Maybe I just care about, and get woud up about this too much, but I don't want to see it labelled as just a violent passtime. It makes me really angry that these... fuck*ng fascists, are trying to censor * one of my favourite forms of entertainment, and a whole section of personal creativity that I am hoping to get involved with again.
The same goes for the idea of censoring music, or film.

*I forgot about that piece of censoring.

[AlohaDawg]

I'm a conservative, right-wingish person who is religious though possibly not "in the southern way" who listens to such music and plays such games.

A moron is a moron no matter what music or games he plays; a person with a predisposition to violence probably could be encouraged slightly by these sort of influences. No one but no one wants to actually look at the whole population of well adjusted (if geeky) music listeners and gamers out there and actually study whether these people are "more likely" to exhibit sociopathic behavior. Why??

1) They are generally younger people who aren't going to reply to the accusations because either they don't care what people are saying or don't have a voice (it's those of us who are older who generally reply or have the means to counter the claims)

2) They are a convenient place to park the blame for so many of society's ills, be that the crime rate or obesity or whatever.


Used to be they blamed all this stuff on those of us who dared to ride skateboards around while sporting "unconventional" hairstyles. Times have changed, haven't they? It's too bad some of these parents can't seem to get their tiny little minds around the fact that if they would have spent more time watching what their kid was doing and determining whether they could HANDLE the sensory input they were getting, maybe the world wouldn't be wondering why your kid shot 6 people at school. Of course, the schools are at fault. Rather than checking out parents, we should lock down schools and make all the kids go through metal detectors and spot inspections. Even though almost all of these crimes were committed with (unsecured, parentally purchased or owned) weapons from home.

There is a critical lack of accountability in the US for behaviors for which we are responsible. This is why it is somehow legal and acceptable to sue a cigaretter maker for the cancer I got from voluntarily smoking. Or suing a gun manufacturer because someone let a kid get a hold of a gun and kill someone. People salve their guilt and shame with litigation. In the US, it has to be someone else's fault.

I'm sick of blaming pop culture for the worlds problems and I'm sick of better living through litigation.

Makes me wanna shoot a bunch of people....I better turn of the game console and the stereo and take a ' walk of sanity'.

[slink]

An interesting, and in this light, fuck*ng refreshing quote in the press release from the owner of the LAN even where the 'fire arm drawing' took place, who also happens to be the father of the guy who had the gun pointed at his head while onlookers tried to persuade the gunman to fire...

While this is a deeply disturbing and personally frightening situation I currently attribute this matter, and the despicable actions of those who initiated and presented the weapons, to the moral fiber and character of the local community rather than the games and players who will suffer due to the actions of a these few.

Press release can be found here, and interview here.


If you hadn't noticed, I can get very involved in certain things. And the current gun laws and aproaches and attitudes to them are one thing that really fuck*ng get to me. Oh just wait til I start this term and my Democracy in the US section.

[CortJstr]

And it's the same day they decided to retry the wrestling imitator

[Choop]

We have categories here for a reason, people. Plus, I don't want to be the one to drop the hammer when this shit gets too serious.

[slink]

screwed this up good.

[slink]

We have categories here for a reason, people. Plus, I don't want to be the one to drop the hammer when this shit gets too serious.

OK, I'm utterly confused, this is where I put it no? Or did someone send it back here? Since this is kind of where I figured it belonged. It doesn't really pertain to any one subject enough to not be in here.

Anyway, I don't care, I'm just gonna piss people off if I keep on going today...
Me for one.

[Pedro Picasso]

This is a big issue for me.  Like copyright law, and my own genitals.  I started a post that became an essay.  I'll spare the board and post a link.

Link

[slink]

Amen to you Pedro. It's so nice to see someone else who cares about this as much as me. And I guess the point being it comes from someone else who is as much (if not currently more?) involved in the industry.

I pretty much wholly agree with your post. The only thing that I would want to discuss, and on this I am more in agreement with Penny Arcade...

They're not going to turn into zombies, but it's honestly not good for them, and we can't trust their parents to keep the stuff from them. There's already a good-enough rating system in place. It has become necessary to keep the Mature for people over 12 and the Adult games for people who have legally attained that status.

I fully agree, that we cannot trust parents, on the whole, to keep unsuitable material away from their own children. The problem there however, is that we have to come up with suitable legislation to do so. And basically, I would prefer it if that job wasn't a legal issue. I just don't think the people who are going to come up with the legislation are going to do it effectively, and morally.
The current ESRB ratings for videogames are a bold, and I think good move. I feel the 'Early Childhood' and 'Children' ratings should be merged, since they, as far as I'm concerned only need to be distinguished in gameplay terms, not in legal ratings.
But I also feel that they should use the standard film ratings, since parents know what they are. And shop assistants too.
In the UK, we have started using the BBFC ratings (12, 15 and 18) on our games, and while it is currently only a guideline rating (it cannot be legally enforced yet) it does at least give people a clear idea who the game is aimed at. For instance in arguments over Grand Theft Auto and shocked parents saying 'How can we let our children play this?', the answer is, 'You don't. It clearly states it's aimed for 18+'.
If we can legally enforce the current ratings in the UK, so like movies, a shop assistant is not allowed to sell an 18 rated game to anyone under that age, I will be happy. However I fear, like movies, it isn't going to change much, and kids are still going to be able to buy unsuitable video games. This is why I fear stronger and stronger legislation, which will censor more and more one of our strongest and most promising artforms.

[pmcd9]

We have categories here for a reason, people. Plus, I don't want to be the one to drop the hammer when this shit gets too serious.

OK, I'm utterly confused, this is where I put it no? Or did someone send it back here? Since this is kind of where I figured it belonged. It doesn't really pertain to any one subject enough to not be in here.

I think he means this isn't really a games discussion, rather a political one.  The first of it's kind actually by my reckoning.  But we don't have a politics section so I think this is prolly close enough.

~Paul

[CortJstr]

I get politics? Oh boy.

I really disagree with the body of slink's argument. I remember visiting a friend in London and finding out we couldn't rent a grotesquely edited version of Clerks because of the rating.Even with parental permission. This is absolutely mind-boggling. Blockbuster finally conceeded why my passport showed I'd turned 18 the previous day.

I refuse to believe I'd gained an appreciable measure of maturity and understanding in that one day. That kind of legally enforced system is an insult to any thinking, mature child or teenager. Not to mention the parents who recognize them as such. The full 100% sum total of all censorship needs to rest on the parents and the parents only. Although that still fucks over the kids who are smarter than their parents, which is not a crime.

I can't believe that a 16-year-old stupid enough to be violent because a game told him too is going to be any less of a dumb motherfucker in 2 years. Or in 20 years.

There's far too much censorship in the world already. Like when a newspaper reports somebody said "I don't give a f---" That's not news, that's a lie. Nobody says "hyphen hyphen hyphen." They said fuck. It's just a word, get over it. There are no bad words. Bad deeds and bad intentions, yes. Bad words, no. (Apologies to George Carlin).

You can't show breasts in the U.S. No pubic hair in Japan. No penetration in Japan or the UK. No giraffe n chips stands exploding on St. Patrick's Day in England. It's insane. Lighten up, people.

[AugustWest]

But what about the CHILDREN!  Won't someone think of the CHILDREN???!!!!