The World Cup 2010 Thread

[Drygioni]

South Africa vs. Mexico Result


South Africa (Tshabalala) 1 - 1 Mexico (Marquez)

A good opening game that. Attacking, open game, if Mexico had a decent striker they could have put a few away, if South Africa were a bit luckier they'd have got a couple more.

Tshabalala opened the scoring with a lovely goal resulting from some brilliant South African passing against the run of play. Despite South Africa dominating, Mexico made their way back into it and were rewarded with a good control and finish from veteran Rafael Marquez following some poor South African defending.

South Africa were unlucky to hit the post through Mphele late on.

My earlier prediction: 1 - 1  

[littlefallsmets]

I know it's going to sound like I'm just firing for effect but...

How can you have an upper hand in a soccer game until you have a goal?

Until someone scores, all that has been concretely accomplished is a bunch of dudes in gym shorts passing a ball around at mid-field. This kills me about hockey too but at least in hockey there's a lot MORE shots on goal and at least a few fights. Without intermediate progressions toward scoring, such as yards or men on-base... it seems silly to say one team has momentum or control.

Is it just whichever team has been passing it amoungst their own guys more? Is it just whichever team has taken more... shots on goal, even if they weren't necessarily good shots?

These don't seem like actual good signifiers of "upper hand". It all seems painfully arbitrary.

[wombat]

Just popping in to say, could you make sure you stay on topic so I don't have to read this thread?

[Arachno-capitalist]

1954, 1974, 1990, 2010

[Drygioni]

I know it's going to sound like I'm just firing for effect but...

How can you have an upper hand in a soccer game until you have a goal?

Until someone scores, all that has been concretely accomplished is a bunch of dudes in gym shorts passing a ball around at mid-field. This kills me about hockey too but at least in hockey there's a lot MORE shots on goal and at least a few fights. Without intermediate progressions toward scoring, such as yards or men on-base... it seems silly to say one team has momentum or control.

Is it just whichever team has been passing it amoungst their own guys more? Is it just whichever team has taken more... shots on goal, even if they weren't necessarily good shots?

These don't seem like actual good signifiers of "upper hand". It all seems painfully arbitrary.

Ah LFM, my nemesis.

It's got nothing to do with statistics. Whilst statistics can perhaps indicate who is creating more chances/occupying the opposition half more often, dominance of a game is an objective and mental thing. It's easily noticeable if your team is the next most likely to concede whether playing or watching. It's like boxing. A boxer may be landing more punches or forcing his opponent back more, but the only way to determine who has the advantage (if there is one) is by watching and understanding.

One team/boxer can lure their opponent into a sucker punch by making them/him feel they've the upper hand whilst an observer can see the opponent is being played. Despite clearly playing/boxing better, a momentary lapse could change the balance of things immediately.

Seriously, just pretend statistics don't exist with football. You cannot understand football matches with them, at best infer.

[littlefallsmets]

Well, maybe that's part of why I'm not that into boxing, either?

I'm not saying that you're crazy to enjoy it, I'm just saying that I can't understand how you can enjoy something so narratively unclear. If I'm going to put three hours into watching something, if there's not a relatively clear story told, I'm going to be bored to tears. Without SOME kind of incrimental milestones in the action, to my eyes, it's just a bunch of dicks kicking the ball around except for the minute or two of aggregate action that's actually shots on goal.

I don't know how to enjoy it. I appreciate your attempts to help me, though.

[jaydub]

The Onion's interactive guide to football.

[AugustWest]

LFM, try this as an easy (if somewhat ham-handed) metric.  Momentum is with the team that is keeping the ball down by the other team's goal a larger portion of the time.

[Drygioni]

LFM, try this as an easy (if somewhat ham-handed) metric.  Momentum is with the team that is keeping the ball down by the other team's goal a larger portion of the time.

General rule of thumb, though a team can be doing this and winning by playing on the counterattack. But yeah that's probably the easiest way of putting it.

Well, maybe that's part of why I'm not that into boxing, either?

I'm not saying that you're crazy to enjoy it, I'm just saying that I can't understand how you can enjoy something so narratively unclear. If I'm going to put three hours into watching something, if there's not a relatively clear story told, I'm going to be bored to tears. Without SOME kind of incrimental milestones in the action, to my eyes, it's just a bunch of dicks kicking the ball around except for the minute or two of aggregate action that's actually shots on goal.

I don't know how to enjoy it. I appreciate your attempts to help me, though.

That's fine, you don't have to enjoy it. I don't really enjoy plenty of sports. I think I just love football for the reasons you hate it if that makes sense, vice versa for your baseball and gridiron stuff. Pretty much everything about it seems opposable to your sports enjoying nature, same with me and your favourite sports. It's like music or literature or stuff, everyone disagrees no-one is wrong etc.

Football is popular for a reason though.

Hooliganism

[CortJstr]

Wombat's old job catches World Cup fever: http://dcist.com/2010/06/national_zoo_caught_up_in_world_cup.php

[dejavroom]

Abloo abloo (...)how you can enjoy something so narratively unclear.

Le sigh. Just saying it doesn't make it so.

I think we went through this in another thread, and if IIRC it all boiled down to something like: In soccer, it's possible to appreciate isolated moments - leading or not to a score - that are beautiful or ingenious in their own way. Even if you can't unfortunately, tap that resource of pleasure for yourself, you should be able to concede intellectually that an entire sport was built around the excitement, dread and anticipation that ensue from the physical challenge that is controlling a ball with one's foot; the recognition of these attributes of beauty or ingenuity being possible by having dicked around with a ball long enough to develop an appreciation of how fuck*ng difficult it is to have the thing doing what you want it to do.

The nearest we got from a consensus was that, in soccer, you have to know what to look for, otherwise it's just shouting at apples for not being oranges...

[littlefallsmets]

Oh, I'm certain its hard as hell to do well.

It was fun as hell to play as a kid, it was the sport I enjoyed most playing other than baseball, which I was so embarassingly bad at that I had to become a super nerd to make up for my total lack of talent.

I just can't watch the damn stuff.

[Carlos del Vaca]

I think we went through this in another thread, and if IIRC it all boiled down to something like: In soccer, it's possible to appreciate isolated moments - leading or not to a score - that are beautiful or ingenious in their own way. Even if you can't unfortunately, tap that resource of pleasure for yourself, you should be able to concede intellectually that an entire sport was built around the excitement, dread and anticipation that ensue from the physical challenge that is controlling a ball with one's foot; the recognition of these attributes of beauty or ingenuity being possible by having dicked around with a ball long enough to develop an appreciation of how fuck*ng difficult it is to have the thing doing what you want it to do.

Can I steal this?  I have a Facebook friend who is posting witty one-liners about how there's no scoring in soccer.

[dejavroom]

Be my guest ^^

[Choop]

if i'm not gonna get my thousand cans for illegal turtle babies then deja deserves them for that bit above