Firewalls?

[fanta]

Sorry to bump a thread from 2004,

but damn, this bears repeating

---------> everyone running Windows should install zone alarm. <----------

here's a review of zone alarm:

http://download.cnet.com/ZoneAlarm-Free-Firewall/3000-10435_4-10039884.html


I'm cocky, so I always assumed that since I know what the hell I'm doing, I can be fine with a NAT router (aka "firewall")

I've got years of experience doing tech support for Windows, Macintosh, Unix, Dos...

but no dice.  Even I need zone alarm.

One thing to consider is that any computer on your local network is a potential threat to you.  So if a friend comes over and borrows your internet with their laptop, malware on their laptop could potentially hack into your computer.  It's possible to configure some cheap routers such that all the computers on your network are firewalled from each other, but this is too technical for most people, and you wouldn't want to do this anyway in many situations because it would render useless, for example, your ethernet-connected printer.

and anyway, every friggin week, literally, Microsoft is releasing a patch for some security vulnerability that could let someone take over your computer remotely...

and besides... we install so much damn software on our computers these days that it's hard to say for sure that we can trust all the sources of all this software.  The other day I installed the 10 most popular video players on my computer, trying to get a stubborn DVD to play... Can I say with absolute certainty that all of these programs are made by trusted people who didn't slip up and on purpose or on accident let some malware get into their product?  No...

As for anti-virus programs... forget about them... Sure, run spybot.  It's free, and to be FAIR you should even donate a little bit to them if you use them, but come on... there is no need to pay for commercial anti-virus software.  The companies that sell anti-virus software can not be trusted, and some of their products even qualify as malware / spyware. 

This article explains more clearly than anything why no one should patronize the anti-virus companies:

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2005/11/69601


Long story short, I was browsing my router logs for no particular reason, and I noticed that MY computer, not my roommates, but MY computer, while I was sitting there running no programs, had made a call to some IP using a pretty odd looking port number.

So I look up that port, and it's not referenced in the wikipedia list of ports... okay... so I do a reverse DNS lookup on the IP, and it's some friggin' cable or DSL modem in some other state.. I'm like... damn... I know I have no reason to talk to someone on a comcast connection... any kinda servers that any mainstream software products are talking to would probably be behind something a little more high end than that, right?  Maybe?

So I am a little concerned so I download and install zonealarm, something I've never done before, and upon the first reboot, it tells me that this and that program want to talk to the internet..  Well I told zone alarm to block literally half these programs, because they were programs that I use once in a while, but I don't want them using my internet bandwidth all the time like that, however small amount they may use, and more importantly, I don't want them sucking my CPU on boot.  If they think there's no internet connection, maybe they'll calm the fuck down every time I boot up.  The next time I want to check for an update to those programs, then I'll enabled them in zone alarm.  Or I'll download the update manually.

so anyway, zone alarm next proceeds to tell me that vservice.exe wants to talk to the internet.  I wasn't able to figure out from a few minutes of fumbling with Google if my particular copy of vservice.exe is malware or is some idiotic part of the windows OS, or both, but in any case, I disabled it in zone alarm and pulled it out of the windows/system32 folder as well.  Spybot doesn't think it's malware, but hey, I'm skeptical of anti-virus software to start with.  I know that if anti-virus says that something is malware, then it probably is, but just because anti-virus software doesn't know about a program (yet) doesn't mean it's not malware.

Certainly, aspiring to a reasonable level of security in an operating system like Windows is kind of a lot to ask anyway.. what with the task manager displaying nothing but cryptic names of processes to you... how the fuck would you know what is going on by looking at that unless you're a programmer, right... I know I don't know what the fuck any of those processes do.  Something as simple as alerting me when a new process rears it's head, or when an executable responsible for a process suddenly changes size... the windows OS certainly doesn't do that.

cloud computing is absolutely the only way that people will be able to have secure computers.

cloud computing with a thin client or something like that. 

Kind of like the old Minitel green screen terminals they had in France all the way back to 1982... from wikipedia:

"From its early days, users could make online purchases, make train reservations, check stock prices, search the telephone directory, and chat in a similar way to that now made possible by the Internet

Millions of terminals were handed out free to telephone subscribers, resulting in a high penetration rate among businesses and the public. In exchange for the terminal, the possessors of Minitel would not be given free "white page" printed directories (alphabetical list of residents and firms), but only the yellow pages (classified commercial listings, with advertisements); the white pages were accessible for free on Minitel, and they could be searched by a reasonably intelligent search engine; much faster than flipping through a paper directory."

Yes that's right... I'll bet the first minitel terminals didn't get fuck*ng viruses and pop-ups pushed at them every time you went to look up a fuck*ng phone number.


that was my rant for today.
thanks

[Mr Trout]

Zone alarm? are you fuck*ng serious? just rely on your router to block ports and don't click on and pop-ups that say your computer is infected with a virus.

[fanta]

blocking ports is inadequate security.  It's necessary to intelligently analyze both incoming and outgoing packets, regardless of what port it's on, to determine if you really want that data coming into, or leaving your computer.  Zone alarm assists in doing this by helping you know which program is sending and receiving which data.

As the article I linked to about the Sony rootkit demonstrates, "not clicking on popups" is an inadequate precaution, because there are innumerable other ways in which malware can install it's self on your computer.  In the case of the sony rootkit, merely inserting an audio CD into your computer was enough to infect it with spyware.  Zone alarm wouldn't prevent your computer from being infected with the sony rootkit, and neither would any of the commercially available anti-virus products, but at least if some rootkit starts keyboard sniffing your passwords or dumping your hard drive to a remote location, there is a reasonable possibility that zone alarm will alert you to this fact.

Point being, detecting that your computer has become compromised is much more effective and reliable than preventing it from becoming compromised in the first place.

Further, there are all sorts of levels of compromise that zone alarm helps with - everything from out and out malware that's using your computer in a DOS attack to more subtle things, like some random process that's innocent enough but totally useless and you forgot you ever installed and you never even knew it used your internet connection and CPU time to check for updates every 10 minutes or every time you boot up.

Zone alarm is just one useful tool.  If you install it, regardless of how savvy a user you are, there's a good chance you will find some program running on your computer talking to the internet that you aren't comfortable with.

[Arachno-capitalist]

Fanta, your advice is garbage. I installed zone alarm and now my computer flips its shit when I try to play Alien Swarm. It thinks Alien Swarm is trying to steal my credit card information or give me AIDS. Even when I turn it on "game mode" or "off" it thinks it knows better than me. ZA can eat a dong. 

[fanta]

First off no one with a username of Fanta could possible be giving anything but the most refreshing of advice.

But yeah I dunno maybe Zone Alarm is garbage but if Zone Alarm doesn't work for you then find some other firewall software that does.  My advice about the utility and necessity of an intelligent firewall is pretty good advice I think.

I had an issue with Zone Alarm whereby it popped up a message asking me if I wanted to allow or block some program... and since I was in the middle of typing, whatever key I hit automatically hit one of the buttons in the allow/block dialogue.

So I initiated a chat with Zone Alarm tech support to bitch about that, and the guy was like 'yeah we know about that' and I was like 'then why don't you fix it?' and so he said he'd send it to the programmers.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is better firewall software out there.

[robot_god]

I used ZA on my old Win XP laptop.  Then I got tired of bad laptops and got a mac.

I dunno if it's just cause he came onto me, but this dude is like a pro troll.  I mean, I don't bother with that crap much anymore, but seriously, I don't think there is  better firewall software than ZA, when it comes to Windows.  I really don't care though, all I do is not enter my CC info on Windows, and if my info ever got stolen, I would just cancel it all.  Ya know what, I don't even care if anyone steals my identity, the only things my identity has gotten so far is a handful of chicks breaking up with me so they can date or marry skinny lanky guys.  Go head, motherfuckers take it.  It's your problem now.

[AugustWest]

I used ZA on my old Win XP laptop.  Then I got tired of bad laptops and got a mac.

I dunno if it's just cause he came onto me, but this dude is like a pro troll.  I mean, I don't bother with that crap much anymore, but seriously, I don't think there is  better firewall software than ZA, when it comes to Windows.  I really don't care though, all I do is not enter my CC info on Windows, and if my info ever got stolen, I would just cancel it all.  Ya know what, I don't even care if anyone steals my identity, the only things my identity has gotten so far is a handful of chicks breaking up with me so they can date or marry skinny lanky guys.  Go head, motherfuckers take it.  It's your problem now.

I think you should turn the tables and become an identity thief yourself.  Proactive and all that.

Maybe you could start by stealing Fanta's identity.  He'll just come up with a new one.

[fanta]

agreed Mac OS un*x is a much better OS than Windows... hell Mac OS from the 80's is better that Windows XP. 

I'm not trying to troll anyone, I'm just trying to share some good advice re: zone alarm.

re: stealing your identity... I dunno if you are joking or not **#** G0d.  If not, then, I dunno, to each their own, but someone hacking into your computer is not to be taken lightly.  Beyond stealing your identity, access to your computer can be used to gain access to the computers of your friends, can be used to assist in all manner of attack on someone, from simple identity theft to coordinating a burglary / kidnapping, to dox dropping your docs or those of a friend.  Your computer is an awesome tool for criminals.  By leaving your computer open, you're basically aiding and abetting terrorists, child abusers of the worst sort, ID thieves, etc.  I think that the argument that there are millions of other open computers is a poor excuse for leaving yours open.  A computer is like a loaded gun, and should be treated as such. 

Credit cards... the policies of credit card companies make credit card crime somewhat lucrative.  The credit card companies are willing to tolerate the losses from this crime because the profits from increased ease of use of credit cards more than offsets the losses... for the credit card companies... society as a whole comes out on the loosing end, however, because all of the money gained by the criminal elements results in a more robust criminal industry which harms all of us, not just the credit card industry.

[robot_god]

Word.

[greenkoolayd]

sugar walls, muh' fuckuh.