The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Achewood => Achewood => Topic started by: on August 01, 2003, 02:32:50 pm
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Achewood is a decent sort of comic but Onstad deserves to be shunned for the way he behaves to his readers. His ego is so vast that he will be on this board within a week posting under all kinds of aliases.
I could not believe that he would not even let you use his art on the site, he made you RE-CREATE IT EXACTLY. There is a huge outpouring of affection for this man and his (sporadic) work. Achewood ceased to be anything other than a means to sell t-shirts early this year, a pale shadow of its former self.
0-GARFIELD IN TWO YEARS
ONSTAD IS A DICK.
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Hey! Guess what!
I was going to lock this thread, and say "We're not going to do this here," but I decided to wait it out.
If you guys can have an adult conversation about this, I will allow dissent.
Otherwise, if this devolves into a flame war, I'm going to have to say, "Sorry, this board is for devoted kiss-asses, if you're not a syncophant, you'll have to start a board of your own."
Choose wisely, little message board community. Choose wisely.
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[stops stopwatch]
Okay, it looks like we made it a little over 12 hours before our first asshole poster.
Who owes who?
Time to pay up.
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He went from a 5 a week comic with message board and serializer with no income to a 3 a week comic with sort of silly text, no message board, spotty serializer postings, and apparently pretty okay money from a shop.
That's going to seem a little down hill to some people. People who like comics. Also the level of affection the regulars show to a man who just kicked them out of his garage is kind of creepy. Chucklebot creepy.
Maybe the Garfield bit was a little too far.
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Will everybody join me in giving a big welcome to Onstad's first appearance here on the Board. Welcome Onst... er, Evabraun69!!!
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Hello, I'm here.
You know what, as long as Achewood is Achewood, I will continue to kiss the ass of the man who produces it, no matter how many times he kicks me in the teef.
There are no nice geniuses.
(Except maybe Einstein, but I hear he used to kick puppies when no one was looking).
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Einstein would totally kick Jesus.
Remember, just because Onstad can be a dick sometimes doesn't negate the fact that he makes me laugh at least twice weekly. That's more than I can say for most people.
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RStevens was a little cruel in his locking post too. He was all like "Damn Onstad, quit whining" which wasn't really what I expected.
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LAST POST ON THE OLD ACHEWOOD BOARD:
http://www.dumbrella.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=001016
It says:
please feel free to visit one of our other fine boards, many of which are manned by cartoonists who like to hear from their readers.
Ouch, baby.
I thought it was pretty funny, though, and I like Stevens's comics.
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Onstad won’t come here unless his boredom and curiosity happen to intersect at a prime moment.
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Rstevens had recently (I think) written this:http://www.dieselsweeties.com/webcomics.shtml, which pretty much would recommend against shutting down one's message board.
3.) Talk to your readers. Every day.
It amazes me how many artists and writers don't use their own forums! It frightens me every time I write back to a reader or respond to an instant message and hear them express amazement that I would bother to respond. My whole livelihood as a cartoonist is based on the goodwill of my readers. Unless they act like a jerk, I want to talk to every single one of them that I can. I try to respond to at least 90% of my email because every damn message is important. (I usually answer my readers faster than I answer my friends, but my priorities are weird)
We are still a small enough medium to pay attention to those who care enough to contact us. Keep in mind that the 1% of readers who actually will contact you are probably some of your strongest supporters. Listen to them. They want you to succeed.
On the other hand, I disagree with those who say that Achewood has gone downhill (the comics, when they come out, are still damned funny) and Onstad spends a ton more time on the strip than Señor Stevens, because it is generally more than four panels and requires manipulation outside of the facial expressions. Is it possible that endless hours spent making Philipe's trashy mustache just-so are responsible for the hostile attitude?
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Meh. I want to read his comics and other works, not marry the guy. If being a dick works for Onstad, let him do his own thing his ownself.
I visit Achewood because it is consistently funny. I'll continue as long as the level of funny is maintained. I don't care whether Onstad is "friendly" in the guise of doing market research or not.
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for me, achewood was an acquired taste.
at first i started reading it (from the beginning) and thought 'well this is pretty stupid.'
by the time i got through the archives though i knew the characters better and it's just plain funny, or at least cool :) i'm not sure if the strip itself is getting better or if i'm just getting more into it, but like others have said, i will keep reading it!
the first variety hour didn't do much for me, but can't make up my mind on just the first one!
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As far as Onstad not deserving this (a message board devoted to his creation) I don't think this board is really for Onstad, who has made it pretty clear he won't be visiting.
So it's our board.
Onstad can take his ball and go home. That's his perogative. But we have our own balls!
That didn't quite come out how I had intended.
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That didn't quite come out how I had intended.
Maybe not, but it was great.
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I wonder if Scrambles the Dog has his own balls.
????
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Well, his name is "scrambles." What do *you* think?
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He probably has Neuticles.
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Meh. I want to read his comics and other works, not marry the guy. If being a dick works for Onstad, let him do his own thing his ownself.
I must say, that nicely sums up the whole thing for me. Nevertheless, cheers to those who kicked off the copycat messageboard.
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Has anybody else noticed that RStevens didn't totally lock it down? Apparently you can still post polls.
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I just reckon I'd be the same. I have no particular love of people in general, they tend to be assholes. And I know if I was doing somethign viewed by that many people I'd tend to just be ruthless to get stuff out of the way. So I kinda respect him and the way he just deals with stuff his own way. No screwing around you know. At least it's consistent. If someone's an asshole, he won't take it. Seems fine to me.
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He probably has Neuticles.
that sounds like an awesome ancient greek legend. "and neuticles said to vasectimus,' Lo and behold for our workings are donefor' and with that vasectimus held aloft the broken sword of castraticlesius and vowed that neuticles would be his brother.
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Doomglobe, I tried to put that as my signature, but it was just too long.
Thus is evidenced Neuticles' might.
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I had decided I wasn't going to join this board, yet, here I am.
I understand why Onstand dumped his board, and I'm very surprised he didn't do it sooner. But in a way it seemed to be on the road to getting better. When John A closed down the Scary Go Round board, it was filled with stupidity and obnoxious children. Now that it's reopened, it seems people are a little more careful with what they post. Perhaps Onstad just needs a cooling off period. But I suppose a man can only take "Why don't you post funny comics!" and "I want this T-shirt!" so much.
Overall, I was a bit surprised by the change in schedule; but as many others have pointed out, it's his comic, we don't pay a dime for it, and really have no control over it. Yes, he does it for his fans, but I get the impression from Onstad that he is more of an Artiste than rstevens is. R does it because he likes poop and pixels and making people laugh.
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Okay, it looks like we made it a little over 12 hours before our first asshole poster.
Why was this an asshole post? I think they are just saying what a lot of us are feeling. I mean, the man writes a funny cartoon (well i'm in the it ain't what it used to be camp), but clearly he's a pretty huge prick towards his fans. He's complained in several interviews about how much work this is for him so maybe he's gotten burned out. That's another post for another time though. He gave us like zero warning that he was closing down the board, he's expressed hostillity towards the very existance of this new board and he sure as hell ain't being very helpful in lettin' anyone know it exist. Also, someone mentioned that they have been waiting a long time for their merchandise. Me too. I've been waiting almost a month for my shirt and i'm starting to feel ripped off. Jough, don't you feel just a little bit like a chump for spending so much time supporting someone who hates you? He's even taking to taunting his fans in his latest cartoon. I'll continue to read achewood (as long as it remains funny), but I ain't gonna pretend that Onstad is a super sweet guy.
~Paul
~Paul
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Oh, I know he's not a sweet guy. And I said previously that he's been a real dick about the whole message board thing.
And maybe there isn't any use for an Achewood message board.
But a lot of people are posting here, and I've been enjoying this message board so far.
So there you go.
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What I plan to be my first and last commentary on this whole thing:
He does seem to have gotten pretty burned out by the status quo as it's stood, but we have yet to see how this new schedule will affect this. If moving to the three-strips-and-various-text-bits and officially disowning the MB allows him to get back on track, I'm all for it. Sign me up for the "still reading until it does actually turn into Garfield" crowd.
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I was telling mrs|Choop (that's me spouse, if you couldn't tell) about the closing of the old board and the opening of the new board, and Onstad's lack of interest in things relation publique, and she said:
He sounds like kind of a dick.
It hadn't even crossed my mind until that point, and good lord it all makes sense now why couldn't i see it before i feel so much better about myself i'm glad i'm not him.
Of course, I also don't bring the funny like he is. Not that that gives him license to be a dick, but I guess everyone serves a purpose, gotta take the bad if you wanna take the good.
I LOVE YOU ALL
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I dont know that he is a dick, it could be that he just doesnt have a thick enough skin for the internet, or that he regarded his messageboard as a sort of email account and read every post meticulously (a very time consuming task) and could not tear himself from it as long as he knew it existed. It is wicked cool of jough and JL to set up this board, but I dont think it is neccessarily uncool of onstad to close down the other one, it is just a messageboard, its not like he flew a jetliner into naburush's oilrig or anything.
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Really there were just different agendas here. Onstad wanted an intelligent and entertaining dialogue to compliment his work, and when people showed up, they formed a community. The community has very different needs than just being witty and insightful. You're a group of people who came together with only Achewood in common, and have now formed a closer bond based on the message board.
You still talk about Achewood, but it's more about each other now than it is the strip. It's more about your reaction to Onstad than it is about Onstad himeslf. This is not what he was looking for.
He wanted a comedian's forum. I would say something akin to 'Politically Incorrect' where if people aren't knowledgable, they're at least clever. What he got was a clique of sometimes knowledgable, sometimes clever people who didn't always feel inclined to be either. He also got the trolls, dinks, butt-kissers, and randoms that every community swims through from time to time.
That's my long-winded analysis. He wanted it to be about the funny, and you wanted it to be about you. ...and the strip. ...and pornography. ...and how he kept locking threads. ...and Invader Zim somehow.
Hey, it's long winded, but at least it's not 'Nate Small'.
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That's interesting analysis from inside of Onstad's head. But I'll refrain from exercising the portion of my brain devoted to Conspiracy Theories and just assume you aren't Onstad.. :twisted:
If indeed there were such specific parameters to the board at dumbrella, well, I never saw them posted and the mod never let me know. Working in the public means dealing with the public. The Tecnogeeks, the hipsters, the crazies, the predators, everyone. I agree with you that maybe his skin was not thick enough to make painless the reality. I would posit further that no one can be objective about something as important to his life and professional well being as Achewood is to him, and therefore he should NOT have moderated that board. Posting from time to time, contributing art, drawing whatever - that may have served him better than participating fully enough to feel the flames and suffer the foolishness of the general population.
And that is how I feel. The end.
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In light of the thing earlier this year where Onstad's message board went crazy and several people were just posting bullshit and he had to put the hammer down, I'd say that maybe doomglobe is on to something.Onstad seemed sort of picky about what was posted in the forum (although it would come and go). I think he is just very particular about things that have the names Onstad or Achewood on them, and he couldn't police the forum and put out the humor at the same time.
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onstad writes a hella nice comic
in my opinion it's 10000x better than rstevens. just because rstevens has AIM chats and shit like that to get more shirt sales doesn't mean onstad doesn't listen to his viewers.
he has a fan mail section people
90% of the old threads were similar to: "dear onstad. i would like to see more transformers in your comics." "dear onstad, could you make lyle a little taller." "dear onstad, im a big fuck*ng retard".
the ratio of retarded loser fans to NOT retarded loser fans was like 10:1.
why would you put up with such stupid questions and a handfull of decent people?
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to prove a point.
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(before you start reading, look for my first post in the "New Strip Based on A Letter to Ray?" thread at http://www.dumbrella.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17, to which the Friday, Aug 1 strip responds)
I feel personally responsible for Onstad's decision to close his messageboard, and, while it was somewhat undeserved for all of you to suffer partly as a result of my bitterness, I can't say I'm sorry for having insulted Our Lord Cartoonist until he cried. Though achewood may grace our lives with the fleeting instants of glee that momentarily offset our incurable sporty sadness, and though it may come to us like the wind (without our asking or paying), its piercing hilarity comes from an awful place. I won't say I'm not glad to have curdled it.
however
When Onstad decided to close the Achewood allusion thread I had spent 11 hours writing (which is now no longer even existent, god dammit), I somehow couldn't help but to dislike him. the abuse he suffered from me was just karma for being indefatiguably, insufferably hostile toward his most dedicated readers, but I apologize to everyone for ruining what so many of you so harmlessly enjoyed.
Cantankerous, venomous-tongued jerks like me and onstad probably should avoid the messageboard medium, given that it seems to promote for us the angriest sort of sociopathy.
that seems a fitting note on which to end this post. Besides, this three-month-late term paper on Augustine's philosophy of language simply won't stand to wait any longer (does anyone else see how utterly perfect it is for me to be finishing a paper on the father of modern christian guilt only moments after posting a red-faced apology?).
Good luck with your new community.
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egomaniacal though it may be for me to claim sole responsibility for the condemning of achewood's official 'board, I still feel it was largely my doing (I also feel a little bit proud of getting so deep under 'stad's skin; I desperately needed revenge. he closed my thread and mooned us with Liebot in a rerun! like I said, it's the angriest sort of sociopathy). I promise to stop flooding.
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Hi Monkey Punch,
I happen to know that the reason the board closed had pretty much nothing to do with you. Not that you didn't contribute to the hostility.
And now rstevens has taken down the board completely. I guess he couldn't figure out how to stop us from posting polls.
Anyway, now the archives are all gone, too.
It's a shame.
Well, Mr. Onstad now has no control whatsoever about what people say about him and in which threads.
I don't know about JDL, but I don't really plan on ever deleting any *relevant* threads EVER. If something's in the wrong forum we may move it, and if something gets off-topic or hostile we may tell you people to "take it outside" and lock the thread, but to delete something it would have to pretty much be illegal. An illegal ghost bike.
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I'm with Jough. We've got space for general conversation, so I spent some time vigilantly splitting threads (splitting hairs?) and moving non-Achewood threads to their proper locations on Friday night. But, I'm trying to keep closings to a minimum and I'm avoiding deletions altogether. As long as we all behave like adults, this shouldn't be a problem.
I am encouraged by the fact that nobody has flamed Eva for the way she (?) started this topic. Nice work, guys. Way to keep it in check. But let me know if you want to be yelled at and beaten into submission, for old times' sake.
My spouse has started calling me "Stockholm."
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You still talk about Achewood, but it's more about each other now than it is the strip. It's more about your reaction to Onstad than it is about Onstad himeslf. This is not what he was looking for.
You know, it's funny, but that doesn't always happen. I remember checking out the Exploitation Now message board right about the time that Poe was ready to end the comic, just to see what the die-hards were saying about it. Very nearly every thread was about the comic, and entirely topical. In fact, it seemed like the community had collectively decided to keep it that way.
On the other hand, you have a collective of miscreants like Dumbrella. People get sucked into that world like it's the Mafia. Mostly because, as you so astutely pointed out, it becomes a community where members know each other and start to talk to each other, rather than about the subject that brought them there. I've always likened it to that Flying Party in Restaurant at the End of the Universe [edit: Life, the Universe, and Everything (duh!)] : the Dumbrella community is just one huge cocktail party where you spend days, months, or years, hanging out, having fun, and meeting new people. Eventually, the host that prompted you to show up (ie - the comic), becomes only one part of the various conversations and drinking buddies you make.
But even Rich Stevens has lost a little something in fostering this huge party. It's great for common bonds and community feelings, and probably for moving merchandise, but there have been plenty of people on the Diesel Sweeties boards who have admitted to not even reading the comic with any regularity. They come for the party, not the strip. And frankly, I can see where that would be a little disappointing for the artist (especially when chuffwits keep making idiotic content requests).
Lastly, you do know that a couple of readers were the whole reason Onstad even started the messageboard, right? He didn't have any intention of having one, and was basically against the idea, but a few people knew that Rich liked his comic a lot and would host a board for it. Basically, he got talked into something that he was remiss to do in the first place. If you're one of the old-time readers, do you feel like the strip sucked before he had a messageboard? No? Then why should it suck after he's ditched the message board?
Is Onstad kind of a dick? Maybe. But this whole message board business is the last reason your should think so.
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I've always likened it to that Flying Party in Restaurant at the End of the Universe
The complete and utter geek in me must point out that the flying party is in Life, The Universe, and Everything. I will now go kill myself.
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No, it is I who should be doing the killing of the self...
...for I totally couldn't remember ( :( ) and knew that if I put up the wrong thing, I would get a speedy ass-kicking.
Damint, I love Douglas so much too. Damnit.
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No really, it is a trivial matter and I would not want your excellent post to be lost to a silly geekout.
I generally stayed away from the other Dumbrella boards for the reasons you cite. It's fascinating when board communities get all repurposed by the members like that, but it becomes pretty tiresome if you're not "on the inside".
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I like Achewood, and I liked the message board. But I thought it was wrong that Onstad read his own message board.
The situation is not analagous to an author publishing a novel, and then discussing it with people via the internet.
The situation is analagous to an author writing a novel, posting it a chapter at a time, and then discussing it with people WHILE HE IS STILL WRITING IT.
We have a Heisenburg effect going on. The discussion has to affect the writing; it just has to. Maybe not in a predictable way, but the strip will be changed as a result of instant feedback. This is the type of phenomenon that ruins a creative vision, that caused Happy Days to become "The Fonzie Show."
Onstad should work on writing his strip and achieving his creative vision the best way he knows how. We should talk amongst ourselves if we like, and talk about the strip or anything we want to. He shouldn't listen to our opinions on what Ray should do next or why we miss Blister - it taints things.
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I will always have a faint soft spot for the old message board, as it was my introduction to the Dumbrella world, but let's face it: By the time of its closing, the board had about 60 billion retarded idiots and maybe five reasonable, cool people. I'd call that quitting time if I were Onstad.
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I'm kinda surprised that more of the idiotic retards didn't follow over to here.
I'm glad, though. I've been enjoying reading all y'all over the past few days a hellofalot more than I enjoyed the Dumbrella boards over the past few months.
-- Jough
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I like Achewood, and I liked the message board. But I thought it was wrong that Onstad read his own message board.
. . .
Onstad should work on writing his strip and achieving his creative vision the best way he knows how. We should talk amongst ourselves if we like, and talk about the strip or anything we want to. He shouldn't listen to our opinions on what Ray should do next or why we miss Blister - it taints things.
I generally agree, and actually have enjoyed reading Achewood more since the old discussion board was deep-sixed. I guess I prefer the idea of Onstad just making the comic on his own and throwing it out there for us to see. I agree that the whole interactive-artistry thing taints the creative process. Maybe if Onstad was seeking to do something more internet-y or "different," this would work. However, I get the impression that Achewood is meant to be a daily comic, much like we would read in the newspaper. I like that. I don't need Onstad to put in more Lyle just because I like Lyle best. Maybe that's very "old media" of me, but so be it.
Also, I guess I don't really care if Onstad is a dick. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I would imagine that most of the artists, musicians, and athletes whose work we enjoy are dicks, and it doesn't mean we don't have to enjoy their work.
My 2 cents.
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One time I wrote a serial novel via diary entries on a slashdot-like site in which I used polls to let my readers drive the plot. In ways it was neat, and it helped to have a starting point as I wrote each new section. On the other hand, it also put me in a box, and maybe stifled my creativity a little. I never finished it for about sixteen different reasons, not the least of which being that it became harder and harder to write based on what was expected of me instead of what I expected from the characters. The characters, in a sense, lost their voice as the voice of my audience overshadowed them. So I can certainly understand Onstad's frustration.
And no, you can't read it.
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I generally agree, and actually have enjoyed reading Achewood more since the old discussion board was deep-sixed.
So, you're saying that the past two strips have been better than all of his previous work?
Because that's how long the old board has been deep-sixed.
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One time I wrote a serial novel via diary entries on a slashdot-like site in which I used polls to let my readers drive the plot.
True, most of the Hyperfiction I've read (and participated in) started out really well and finished with the worst possible ending. I couldn't even fathom a Hypercomic. ::shudder::
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Though achewood may grace our lives with the fleeting instants of glee that momentarily offset our incurable sporty sadness, and though it may come to us like the wind (without our asking or paying), its piercing hilarity comes from an awful place. I won't say I'm not glad to have curdled it.
I don't know what to do here, i'm sort of at a loss. I've spent a lot of time in message boards filled with braindead infintile know nothing 'tards. So therefore I get damn good at calling a spade a spade and not suffering fools gladly. Now i'm in a message board filled with intelligent, witty, literate and very well spoken people and I feel outclassed. It's pretty awkward with the shoe on the other foot.
~Paul
PS- I have no idea what a "Heisenburg effect" is.
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PS- I have no idea what a "Heisenburg effect" is.
Werner Heisenberg was a scientist specialising in quantum mechanics.
He's the father of the "Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle" which states that you could either determine a particle's momentum or position, but not both.
He also observed that in any complex system, observing a phenomenon tended to alter it. The scientific eye changed the observed, to the point where it was impossible to observe something because by tinkering with it you weren't observing the true behaviour of the particles, but the result of your own meddling.
I must've missed the post about the old board having suffered the Heisenberg effect, but I suppose what the poster meant was that by being in the feedback stream, Onstad was altered and his creative "fluids" didn't flow in the right way.
Or something.
-- Jough
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Heisenberg was also the scientist in charge of the Nazi's nuclear fission research, who dragged his feet in Hitler's Germany, thus preventing the Germans from building an Atomic bomb before we did.
Interesting guy.
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but I suppose what the poster meant was that by being in the feedback stream, Onstad was altered and his creative "fluids" didn't flow in the right way.
I think you mean "humors." Or "humours." As long as it didn't affect the local phlogiston concentration, I thought he was doing OK.
(word to bad old-timey science)
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PS- I have no idea what a "Heisenburg effect" is.
I'm glad you asked, so I didn't have to. ::Wipes sweat from forehead::
Although, now that it's been explained, it sounds familiar. My husband did a monologue from Copenhagen once, and talked about Heisenburg for about two months straight, so he probably told me about it then and I just forgot.
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::Wipes sweat from forehead::
Heh! How'd you know I was all out of olives? You crack me up, jldunston.
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Dang, didn't any of you people watch Star Trek? TNG, specifically. All Heisenburg compensators on the transporters. All Moriarty trying to uncouple them to become corporeal. All weed in his hat.
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Oooooooooooooh, that's where I knew it from!
Dang, Moriarty was cool as hell.
But that is not the point of this topic.
Back to the Heisenburg Effect and its Impact on the Comedic Stylings of Chris Onstad, OR ELSE.
Or else this thread gets locked, that's what.
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Actually, the "Heisenberg Compensators" on Star Trek were a bit of a joke.
See, since you can't know a particle's momentum (velocity) and position (alignment too) with any degree of precision, you can't predict the nature of matter or energy with any degree of accuracy.
If you were to disassemble someone's atoms and re-assemble them, they'd stop being themselves (physically) after a very short time if you didn't get the momentum or position of those sub-atomic particles correct.
So the Heisenberg Compensator compensated for the uncertainty. It's cute.
And to keep this slightly on topic, if people keep poking his drawing hand with a sharp stick, Onstad cannot make his little cartoons as well as he could were people not fuck*ng with him.
He also seemed to read every thread, which I now know is time-consuming.
He's probably kicking back right now grateful that he doesn't have to babysit people who are going to bitch about his free content anymore.
Of course, the way he's running his business, he's treating his work like advertisements for his merchandise anyway.
Does anyone want to take a bet that at least one of these t-shirt sayings from strips from the past week are going to be offered in the achewood store?
Anyone?
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I think it's a good thing that Onstad threw us out into the street because the member rankings here are so much cooler than lame rappers beverage choices. I'm just dying to know what comes after "your old friend Blister."
~Paul
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It'll be a while. I have the next rank set to 100.
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It'll be a while. I have the next rank set to 100.
I'm already over a hundred posts, but of course I'm special and my rank says so.
I wanted catch-phrases for ranks, like "Here comes a special boy." and "Philippe is standing on it." but JLD opted for character names.
I'm sure she'll change them every so often, like they did on that other board.
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The Roast Beef-related rank must be like 10,000 posts.
Also, Jough, I think I speculated elsewhere about that point you made about Onstad - I think he was probably a little obsessive about checking the boards and seeing what was posted, especially as it could have been construed as being signed off on by him.
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I generally agree, and actually have enjoyed reading Achewood more since the old discussion board was deep-sixed.
So, you're saying that the past two strips have been better than all of his previous work?
Because that's how long the old board has been deep-sixed.
No, it's not a question of the strips being better or worse. Rather, I enjoyed reading them more knowing that they were sort of divorced from all the action over here on the messageboards. Maybe it's just me, but as I said, the creation seems a bit more "pure" that way. Of course, it's folly to think that any artist is completely oblivious to the reactions to what he or she creates. However, I think that for some, and Onstad may be among them, the constant interaction of these boards is too much of a distraction.
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It'll be a while. I have the next rank set to 100.
I'm already over a hundred posts, but of course I'm special and my rank says so.
I wanted catch-phrases for ranks, like "Here comes a special boy." and "Philippe is standing on it." but JLD opted for character names.
I'm sure she'll change them every so often, like they did on that other board.
and now I must post more, because I want to be blister..damn it
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It'll be a while. I have the next rank set to 100.
and now I must post more, because I want to be blister..damn it
<OT>I just think it rules that the Blister rank is in all caps. Hopefully the Beef rank will somehow reflect his punctuationless ways</OT>
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and now I must post more, because I want to be blister..damn it
I don't want to stop being Blister... Though I am curious to know what will come next. So far JL's choices have been good, so they can only get more satisfying.
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Heisenberg effect, but I suppose what the poster meant was that by being in the feedback stream, Onstad was altered and his creative "fluids" didn't flow in the right way.
-- Jough
That is pretty much what I meant.
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True, most of the Hyperfiction I've read (and participated in) started out really well and finished with the worst possible ending. I couldn't even fathom a Hypercomic. ::shudder::
Scott McCloud has one on his website. People submit art for the next panel, he choses finalists, and people vote. www.scottmccloud.com It was an interesting experiment.
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i disabled the boards, but the old data still exists if there are a few very important things you'd like recovered.
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Hola rstevens,
Feel free to stop by any time to bust Onstad's stones, even if he won't be around to read your post. We're going to package up the best threads and send them to him in a little basket that has little jellies, bath oils, ciders, and other gay things in it, once per fortnight.
Sorry to see the old boards go but they'd grown diseased, and we can understand that they had to be put down.
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aw, but now that he's sticking to a schedule i've got nothing to complain about.
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aw, but now that he's sticking to a schedule i've got nothing to complain about.
Well, it was a nice little dig on him on the way out - and I have checked out some of the other dumbrella boards moderated by artists who care about interacting with their fan base.
Hell, I've even started reading Diesel Sweeties.
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then hosting his boards got me one thing aside from some cartoonist grief! thanks man/woman.
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Count me in on the Dumbrella-board-as-springboard thing. Actually, lurking on Dumbrella boards other than Achewood got me to read both Wigu and DS eventually. So... yeah, thanks, RS; my life is much more filled with comical goodness than it would have been otherwise.
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Mister Stevens, hosting the boards for other cartoonists probably gets you more things than you think, dumbrella is like the funnies section of the newspaper for me, I always read those comics first, before moving on to the 'strays'. it is convenient to have a set of comics all together in the same place. Since they are all good comics, it makes them a priority.
Back with the topic, I dont have any problem at all with onstad not reading a messageboard. everyone keeps whining about it for some reason, but its not like jough has not provided another board of equivalent power (even if it does not have red ***** icons for putting next to posts) and its not like the comic has suffered in any way. Achewood was never about having a personal connection to the artist, it has always been a momentary diversion on the road to the grave, and nothing more. We are all on that road basically alone, whether we like it or not.
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<ot>
Nice .sig quote, V-Adore...
</ot>
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Back with the topic, I dont have any problem at all with onstad not reading a messageboard. everyone keeps whining about it for some reason, but its not like jough has not provided another board of equivalent power (even if it does not have red ***** icons for putting next to posts) and its not like the comic has suffered in any way. Achewood was never about having a personal connection to the artist, it has always been a momentary diversion on the road to the grave, and nothing more. We are all on that road basically alone, whether we like it or not.
Intellectually, I agree. But there's a childish part of me throwing a fit right now.
The issue here isn't that Onstad is expected to interact with the fans and doesn't. The issue is that he used to and stopped. If he'd never started his own MB, one like this would have evolved anyway (although probably on Yahoo groups or usenet or something) and things would have been fine. But since he did interact and stopped we feel like something's been taken away from us, maybe even a little cheated. But it will go away, especially as the proportion of oldbies that remember the old board lowers compared to new faces.
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(even if it does not have red ***** icons for putting next to posts)
I'm still waiting for a graphically inclined person to make us some custom smilies with Achewood character heads. PM me if you'd like to volunteer.
I think CortJstr makes some good points. By hanging out with us for a year or so and then deciding to take his ball and go home, the selgiraffe, childish parts of all of us are a little annoyed. For goodness' sake, we had our very own Internet Rock Star. (Not to be confused with a Jukebox Hero. Damn, I love that song.) And now that relationship is gone. It's natural to feel a void. (Yes, that's an overly dramatic interpretation. Go with it.)
Which is the only explaination I've come up with as to why you've latched on to me, of all people. Sheesh.
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Yea, it's like, if I were to make an analogy for what he's done, it what be something... sandbox based! Now, where did that come from :P
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A man works hard. Hard like a dog or other working animal. Achewood is a meal deal for a man or exceptional woman- I wasn't surprised to see the board die on dumbrella, and I'd lurked there for a buncha months, you could see it coming...Onstad works hard, I reckon, and I can't forget the day I found achewood (via Scary Go Round) and read the archive- I nearly collapsed a lung.
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Any artist who ever produces more than one piece of work has to be prepared for someone to say ‘I liked the old stuff better.’ Having readers wonder about departed or one-shot characters is also common. Hopefully hearing those comments didn’t affect Onstad much. Since Onstad had such tight rules on the old forum, he should have posted guidelines or a FAQ or something. Instead of using his energy to cry about the posts he didn’t like, he could have done to prevent them.
If Onstad wanted or needed a community behind Achewood, closing his board was a bad move. I don’t know what percentage of his readers/income are the ‘hardcore’ such as ourselves, but apparently we were worth sacrificing.
The man’s attitude means naught to my interest in his work, but if I were him I would go about things differently.
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Since Onstad had such tight rules on the old forum, he should have posted guidelines or a FAQ or something. Instead of using his energy to cry about the posts he didn’t like, he could have done to prevent them.
I think, though, that the only rule of the old Achewood forum (and I admit that I was not around much for its last days) was that if Onstad thought a thread had turned into a turd, he would lock it. Unfortunately for him, this is a very difficult rule to enforce without reading every post in every thread yourself. That is the kind of thing that burns out moderators very quickly, let alone the artist himself.
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Since Onstad had such tight rules on the old forum, he should have posted guidelines or a FAQ or something. Instead of using his energy to cry about the posts he didn’t like, he could have done to prevent them.
You will note that I have established such regulations (http://achewood.plagiarist.com/viewtopic.php?t=12) here.
It is exhausting to read every thread yourself, I should know. And I think having space for people to bullshit on this board will help things from turning into turds. But when it comes right down to it, Onstad is more than a little bit of a control freak, and managing the board just got to be too much for him.
Now, does anybody else have anything to say on this topic? Because it's up to four pages now and I think it's about time we moved on.
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Yea, it's like, if I were to make an analogy for what he's done, it what be something... sandbox based! Now, where did that come from :P
You know, I was trying to think up an apt metaphor, and didn't want to use the cliched "This kid we used to play ball with got pissed off at us once and since he owned the ball..."
It really doesn't matter now what Onstad thinks about his message board. I think he likes having fans - who wouldnt? - but it seems that even the most hardcore fans weren't above posting criticism on the message boards.
Because that's what the internet is about: posting semi-anonymous rantings trashing stuff and people.
I don't think many people would have said the things that they posted on those message boards to Onstad's face at a party. You don't walk up to someone and say "Man, the Variety Hour is LAME. Why don't you go back to writing another strip?"
I think he'd just prefer we say "thank you" and go on our way.
Oh, and buy merchandise, which I for one will no longer be doing.
How many readers/customers did he lose through shutting down the boards? Hard to say. Probably not many, because the sycophantic can take all sorts of abuse and justify it.
I don't even object to his closing the message boards. I just think he could've handled it better. Like, I don't know, post a thread a month ahead of time saying "These boards will be closing at the end of the month." or "I can't moderate this thing anymore - it's taking up too much of my time and energy. Could someone else mod? I'll be by once a week to answer questions and read some feedback."
But what did he do? Like a petulant child he got a bug up his ass and in less than a day's time closed the message board.
That's fine. He's entitled. But I prefer to spend my money on people who are a little more considerate to their fans. People like rstevens, from whom I'll be ordering a book. I'll have to check to see if he autographs them, because the extra scratch is usually worth it.
And I read through the other Dumbrella board comics (not all of them, but one a day) and have really enjoyed Scary Go Round - so maybe John Allison can get a little of my excess web-comic-cash.
Rstevens and John A both post regularly to their message boards, they interact with their fans (heck, rstevens of Clango.org even came over here to interact with US) and the interactions seem a lot more civil and enjoyable than the old Achewood board was at times.
So maybe Onstad brings his own hostility to his fanbase.
That's pretty much my last word on the closing of the old boards, barring any follow-ups.
-- Jough
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But, see, you've just gone and proven a point, and one which, though he never came out and said it as such, is one that I think Onstad felt.
You wouldn't have said half those things if you hadn't cared about the board. In fact, based on that last post, it would seem that the board had become just as, if not more important than Achewood the Comic.
Way back when the boards opened, Onstad mentioned something about not wanting to have a happy little chat community to run. It was never his idea, because he was all about the comic. But the board took on its own life, a life that increasingly moved away from the comic and was more about that very happy little chat community that he was trying to avoid.
I guess all I'm saying is: it shouldn't matter if he had a board or not, or shut it down in a blink of an eye, if you truly care about Achewood. Similarly, if you just want a discussion board where people can hang out and foster a community, then Achewood all that much. It's just a means to an end.
Frankly, if Onstad has been able to do the comic full time based on merch sales, then the handful of die-hard boardwhores haven't been supporting him all that much. If he feels it at all, it will only be for a brief time.
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Frankly, if Onstad has been able to do the comic full time based on merch sales, then the handful of die-hard boardwhores haven't been supporting him all that much. If he feels it at all, it will only be for a brief time.
Well, his wife supports him too.
It's a good deal if you can get it - doing what you love all day (or not, as the case may be).
And Achewood hasn't even really "taken off" yet. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the comic if or when it gets mass media attention.
-- Jough
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Don't forget that Our Boy is syndicated in some local news rags. That can't hurt, either.
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it would seem that the board had become just as, if not more important than Achewood the Comic.
. . .
I guess all I'm saying is: it shouldn't matter if he had a board or not, or shut it down in a blink of an eye...
I agree. I don't really understand the anger at the sudden decision to shut down the board. Who got hurt? I understand that people like their internet friends, but this board sprang up (thanks to the prompt efforts of the moderators) in about a day, and discussions seem to be flowing here rather nicely. In fact, I think this board is far better. Having a disinterested moderator seems to work much better than having the creator moderate discussions of his own work.
Here's my last thought on this matter. I have noticed in many of Onstad's posts and creations a certain ascerbic take on the internet, its conventions, etc. Generally, I have found that the attitude is mostly "I don't swim in that pool." Therefore, I think Onstad perhaps doesn't share many of the customes and norms of those deeply invovled in the "internet community," as it were. I sort of feel the same way, so I understand, and don't blame Onstad for never wanting to moderate a fan community in the first place, or for pulling the plug just because he felt like it.
I think one should be respectful to one's fans, and I think that when people individually addressed Onstad (as far as I could tell), he always was. But I don't think that he had any "responsibility" to the message board.
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I guess all I'm saying is: it shouldn't matter if he had a board or not, or shut it down in a blink of an eye...
I agree.
Me too. I mean, maybe (well, obviously) Onstad just isn't the type of person that RStevens or JohnA are, that can deal with the whole message board community thing and do the comic and stuff related.
Yea, I reckon he should've just gotten someone else to mod it instead of such drastic action, but well, it was a good way to think it out quickly in the end so we got rid of some of the detritus. But still.
Hell, maybe in a week or two's time when the strip and stuff has gotten better it'll all blow over and we'll all have forgotten about it...
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I don't really understand the anger at the sudden decision to shut down the board. Who got hurt? I understand that people like their internet friends, but this board sprang up (thanks to the prompt efforts of the moderators) in about a day, and discussions seem to be flowing here rather nicely.
I think we were extremely fortunate that we had someone in our midst like Jough who had the resources and the time to set up this alternate board in such quick fashion. If not for Jough we would be scattered to the four winds by now. I guess we could have pleaded to rstevens to give us access to the member list and sent out a mass e-mail, but that's supposing rstevens would actually do it and even if he did, where would we be if we didn't have Jough with the tech skills to set up such a marvelous board. MSN groups? Yahell? And what if Jough was too busy to do it on such instant notice? What if he'd waited until the weekend? By then it would have been too late to get the word out. Let's face it, we're very fortunate to have this board.
As for why we are angry, I guess for me, it taints the experience knowing that the guy who's work you admire so much is a fuckin' asshole. He's kinda like John Lennon in that respect. I love the music he made, but c'mon the guy was a turd.
~Paul
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But what did he do? Like a petulant child he got a bug up his ass and in less than a day's time closed the message board.
That's fine. He's entitled. But I prefer to spend my money on people who are a little more considerate to their fans. People like rstevens, from whom I'll be ordering a book. I'll have to check to see if he autographs them, because the extra scratch is usually worth it.
-- Jough
Here's where we disagree. I never spent my money on Onstad - I spent my money on merchandise I wanted to own. I didn't buy my Philippe hoodie because I liked Onstand and wanted him to have my money; I bought it because I wanted to own a Philippe hoodie. And I still love it.k
I don't see why you used to buy merchandise and don't know. How does Chris' messageboarditude affect whether you want to own achewood clothing?
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Well, I don't own any Achewood clothing but I do have all three books, so the point of whether I'll be buying anything else is moot at this point.
All I'm saying is that if I'm going to spend my money I'd rather fork it over to someone who appreciates it, and doesn't say "fuck you" after he's taken it.
So the next time I have a choice between an Achewood book and a Scary Go Round book, or a Diesel Sweeties book, I'll take choice #2.
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See, that was kind of my thing, too. I actually like the comic Achewood more than DS and Wigu, but I bought DS and WiGU shirts because I like them more than any of the Achewood shirts.
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I spent my money on merchandise I wanted to own.
right. but how much of that is because you actually wanted to support onstad's business. it would have been cheaper to order a private silkscreen of phillipe onto a blank hoodie. or even do it your DAMN self. but you wanted to support an artist who puts out a product that you continue to enjoy and cannot afford the alcohol it takes to get himself drunk enough to produce that product unless you buy some other completely unrelated product. I bought all three books, because I wanted them, and a teeshirt, because I wanted to support a webcomic. I chose my favorite webcomic at the time and bought the teeshirt. webcomics account for a large portion of my daily entertainment, I should probably support more of them, but I am cheap.
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My primary motivation for buying a teeshirt was to support Onstad.
~Paul
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I just did that by sending him liquor directly.
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Well, I don't own any Achewood clothing but I do have all three books, so the point of whether I'll be buying anything else is moot at this point.
All I'm saying is that if I'm going to spend my money I'd rather fork it over to someone who appreciates it, and doesn't say "fuck you" after he's taken it.
So the next time I have a choice between an Achewood book and a Scary Go Round book, or a Diesel Sweeties book, I'll take choice #2.
jough, I seriously fail to see any kind of serious correlation between what Onstad's been doing (closing the original board, the Variety Hour) and what you've been doing (reading his strip, buying the books). You might be well advised to step off the Taking It Personally Bus and have a Coke and a smile.
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It's time I chimed in. I buy Achewood stuff because I want Achewood stuff. I personally have shelled out over $200 on books and clothing. The books I bought as a statement of support, really. But regardless of how I feel about him personally, the man makes DAMN GOOD SHIRT DESIGNS. Even if you've never seen an Achewood strip in your life, you can still appreciate a "Good with Computers" baby doll tee or a "Science" hoodie. These are universal themes. (Sort of.) So I think most people are buying his stuff because it's good quality stuff -- even if the shipping delays leave something to be desired. And at 1300 customers in 2 years, he has all the excuse he needs for that.
That's it. Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
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I'm fairly certain a couple of other internet people I know have bought "Science" shirts while never having read a single Achewood strip in their lives.