The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: andalucia on August 06, 2004, 01:21:35 am
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So, after a lot of hearing about him and realizing that he sounds as though he's my kind of fella, which is to say mind-bogglingly pretentious, I'd like to read one of his books... any ideas on what to start with?
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That totally depends...
If you've got the time, just say fuck it and haul around Infinite Jest for the rest of the summer. I'll repost here what i posted to the K records board about new readers of DFW's IJ:
NOTE TO NEW READERS OF INFINITE JEST:
1. Bring a dictionary. And not that little one you have. A real big ass OED-type fucker. There are plenty of words in this book that neither you nor your little dictionary have any clue about.
2. An French to English translator is also handy.
3. What was the last math class you took?
4. Take a day and sit back with the current Physicians Desk Reference.
5. And take a few years of tennis lessons.
Good luck. I hope you like footnotes.
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Many thanks sailor. I think I am ready to spend a long time toting around Infinite Jest. I like reading small books, sure, but I always like to also be working on a Tome. So after Finnegans Wake it'll be either Infinite Jest or Gravity's Rainbow. Thanks as well for your advice, which encouraged rather than dissuaded me. I've got my precious gigantico two-volumes-and-magnifying-glass-in-little-drawer OED filled with pressed flowers from when my sister and I were kids, a certificate of French-English bilingualism, and a Derrida-honed love for, or at least acceptance of footnotes. There is, however, a large, strange gap in my mathematical knowledge between Grade 11 Functions and Relations and my casual readings on chaos theory and quantum mechanics. The tennis point was the most frightening one. I'll see about that.
But I shall definitely pick up Infinite Jest when I return to the civilized world.
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Many thanks sailor. I think I am ready to spend a long time toting around Infinite Jest. I like reading small books, sure, but I always like to also be working on a Tome. So after Finnegans Wake it'll be either Infinite Jest or Gravity's Rainbow.
Both are good, but if you have to choose, I'd say Gravity's Rainbow takes precedence over Infinite Jest. Just my opinion.
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And here I was getting really excited about maybe inaugurating the school season with breaking open my old copy of Pale Fire. And maybe getting around to actually reading the Gormenghast trilogy, now that I finally have all three books in the same place.
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Many thanks sailor. I think I am ready to spend a long time toting around Infinite Jest. I like reading small books, sure, but I always like to also be working on a Tome. So after Finnegans Wake it'll be either Infinite Jest or Gravity's Rainbow. Thanks as well for your advice, which encouraged rather than dissuaded me. I've got my precious gigantico two-volumes-and-magnifying-glass-in-little-drawer OED filled with pressed flowers from when my sister and I were kids, a certificate of French-English bilingualism, and a Derrida-honed love for, or at least acceptance of footnotes. There is, however, a large, strange gap in my mathematical knowledge between Grade 11 Functions and Relations and my casual readings on chaos theory and quantum mechanics. The tennis point was the most frightening one. I'll see about that.
But I shall definitely pick up Infinite Jest when I return to the civilized world.
You sound well prepared, grasshopper. Open your heart a bit wider to footnotes, and accept, with love, small type face. The tennis knowledge is more important than the math, but you'll pick it up. I didn't know jack about any of that stuff, save for the drugs, and i think i got at least half the jokes. Enjoy.
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Well, I guess read it, but Infinite Jest was what all the faux literary drips were reading a few years ago.
I found it HIGHLY overrated, but then again, whatever. It sure beats Grisham.
However, if you've not yet read Pynchon, then by all means Gravity's Rainbow is a necessity if you're to consider yourself "well read."
And you may want to read Miller's "Tropic of Cancer" before reading Infinite Jest.
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However, if you've not yet read Pynchon, then by all means Gravity's Rainbow is a necessity if you're to consider yourself "well read."
I have tried to read this, really I have. Three separate assaults on this damn novel, and I have yet to get anywhere of significance. It annoys me greatly, as I've enjoyed all the other Pynchon I've read (pretty much everything else). I know that TV has rotted my brain, and I don't read as much as I used to, but damn.
Always something to remind me just how narrow my mind really is...
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Well, I guess read it, but Infinite Jest was what all the faux literary drips were reading a few years ago.
I found it HIGHLY overrated, but then again, whatever. It sure beats Grisham.
However, if you've not yet read Pynchon, then by all means Gravity's Rainbow is a necessity if you're to consider yourself "well read."
And you may want to read Miller's "Tropic of Cancer" before reading Infinite Jest.
"faux lit drip" is the new sanitaco porn; it's a necessity.
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Well, I guess read it, but Infinite Jest was what all the faux literary drips were reading a few years ago.
I found it HIGHLY overrated, but then again, whatever. It sure beats Grisham.
However, if you've not yet read Pynchon, then by all means Gravity's Rainbow is a necessity if you're to consider yourself "well read."
And you may want to read Miller's "Tropic of Cancer" before reading Infinite Jest.
Yeah, but a few years ago I was 13. I've read some Pynchon already, but after two tries to read "Tropic of Cancer" including, actually, about two weeks ago, I think I just can't do it. I got to page 3, I believe, before the line "I am fuck*ng you so you'll stay fucked" appeared and I was overwhelmed by the realization that one could extrapolate an entire Women's Studies dissertation out of those few words. I really really want to like Henry Miller, but he's proved himself to be one of the few authors who's just too offensive for me.
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Infinite Jest: Terrific fun. Bring two bookmarks. Having to do that old Choose Your Own Adventure two-finger placeholding-fu on a book this size will make you irritable and look fuck*ng ridiculous, besides. Oh, and also? If you want a taste of Wallace before you wade into this one, A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again (especially the title essay) makes for a nice little mixtape.
Gravity's Rainbow: My favorite book, ever, ever. We even share a damn birthday. (Several paragraphs of gushing non-sequential praise omitted here.) You don't need an encyclopedic knowledge of Everything to read and enjoy this book, seriously. What is in the book will leave you, no matter what you're carrying around in your head, feeling like it was written Just For You.
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When I was in college a friend of mine thought of Gravity's Rainbow as though it were a frikkin' religious experience. At the time I had not read it, and kept putting it off, since I didn't *have* to read it for a class, and of course just to torture my friend who wanted to talk about it with me - like, all the damn time.
So he started leaving copies for me on the sly - he tried giving me a copy and I gave it back to him - so he'd sneak a copy into my apt., or leave one where he knew I'd be, like in the English Club office (I was pres. and he was also a member, so I had "office hours" where I'd man the office).
Eventually copys would materialise in rooms where I had classes, one left casually at my usual lunch table in the caf, and sometimes on my doorstep outside my apt.
I started collecting them, and ended up with about 15 copies, which I sold to the used bookstore across from campus.
My friend, of course, denies to this day ever leaving copies anywhere for me, even the ones inside my apt. when he was the only one who could have put a copy there that day.
In any case, I finally broke down and read it the summer after college, while I was first building Plagiarist.com 1.0.
It still doesn't replace Ulysses as being the end of books, but it was good.
Confidential to Andalucia: You wouldn't have found that line offensive if you've ever been fucked so good you stayed fucked. I'm just saying.
P.S. If you found "Tropic of Cancer" overly offensive, you may not want to read Gravity's Rainbow or Ulysses either. Or Naked Lunch. Or Frisk. Or White Noise. Or the Great Gatsby.
It just seems that all of the greatest novels of the past 100 years or so are offensive in some way, at least if you're easily offended.
Heck, if you find ToC offensive I would certainly NOT recommend you read Achewood.
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I dunno, that jump from Tropic of Cancer to The Great Gatsby is a looong one. Then again, I generally find Miller to be a self-absorbed woman-hating bore.
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Speaking as someone who has a tendency to occasionally get all Women's Studies wannabe on bad misogynistic literate (don't even goddamn get me started on Hotel New Hampshire, because we'll be here all night), I didn't find The Great Gatsby offensive in that vein at all. It has behavior and character motivations that could be cheap and unfortunate in other authors' hands, but Fitzgerald makes it hum with sympathy and humanity.
(I kind of dig Gatsby. A lot.)
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President of the English Club? You had an English club? That's a new one on me.
What did you do at meetings? Speak to each other -- in English? Make billiard balls go in a slightly different direction?
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I've read some Pynchon already, but after two tries to read "Tropic of Cancer" including, actually, about two weeks ago, I think I just can't do it. I got to page 3, I believe, before the line "I am fuck*ng you so you'll stay fucked" appeared and I was overwhelmed by the realization that one could extrapolate an entire Women's Studies dissertation out of those few words. I really really want to like Henry Miller, but he's proved himself to be one of the few authors who's just too offensive for me.
My brother read the entire Tropic trilogy. I then asked him if he liked it.
He replied, "No, I think somewhere in the middle of the second book I realized that Henry Miller was an asshole."
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Confidential to Andalucia: You wouldn't have found that line offensive if you've ever been fucked so good you stayed fucked. I'm just saying.
This isn't offensive to me so much as mysterious. Why would it be a good idea?
What did you do at meetings? Speak to each other -- in English?
Yes! They love speaking English very much! They love it a thousand times! Completely! It is a love story!
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Confidential to Andalucia: You wouldn't have found that line offensive if you've ever been fucked so good you stayed fucked. I'm just saying.
This isn't offensive to me so much as mysterious. Why would it be a good idea?
You know, I have no idea. Personally, I think it sounds uncomfortable. In fact, don't they send people to the hospital for that?
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I didn't name the damn club. We put out two literary magazines with crappy poetry and short stories and stuff. There was already a Literature Club that never met, and that couldn't take on new members, and had no budget - so rather than try to get around the paperwork, they just made a new club.
In any case, I've met people who have stayed fucked, and they can live completely happy lives.
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I didn't name the damn club. We put out two literary magazines with crappy poetry and short stories and stuff. There was already a Literature Club that never met, and that couldn't take on new members, and had no budget - so rather than try to get around the paperwork, they just made a new club.
So, you're saying billiard balls weren't involved?
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Well, it wasn't so much about the direction as the distance. ;)
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In any case, I've met people who have stayed fucked, and they can live completely happy lives.
I wouldn't call the life my parents lead "happy."
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in the English Club office (I was pres. and he was also a member, so I had "office hours" where I'd man the office).
First off, it's quite cool that you had a "Gravity's Rainbow" -war a la the Risotto War.
Secondly, I was all up and ready to mock you about the English Club thing, but then I remembered that I was briefly a member of both the English and Theatre clubs at university. We actually shared the same student lounge/meeting room. I remember going to meetings where the English majors complained to me about how noisy the Theatre people were, and meetings where the Theatre people complained about how much the English students complain. Few words were exchanged, just the annoyed glances and sighs of some dud reading Balzac. The English students were a highly passive-aggressive bunch, the Theatre students were, well, they were Theatre students.
Last but not least, I've read about 100 pages into of "Infinite Jest" twice. Both times I've just had to stop and analyze the situation, and realize that I'm just not enjoying the experience of reading it, and the only reason I would carry on is to prove to myself that I could read a book that damn huge. The content doesn't make it worth it for me. But it looms large on my bookshelf, and sometimes I hear it whispering, “You haven’t read me yet, Melanie. I’m waiting for you….” I'm the same way with Henry Miller: I worked in a used bookstore/comic book shop for several years, and picked up "Tropic of Cancer," "Tropic of Capricorn," "Black Spring," "Sexus," and something else, all is a box set, and I've failed to get beyond a few pages in any of them. I liked Anais Nin, so I thought, being connected in life, that I'd like Miller too. No go.
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in the English Club office (I was pres. and he was also a member, so I had "office hours" where I'd man the office).
First off, it's quite cool that you had a "Gravity's Rainbow" -war a la the Risotto War.
Now I am all picturing Jough coming into his office, finding the word P Y N C H O N spelled out in hole-puncher residue on his desk, and screaming. Thank you.
Secondly, I was all up and ready to mock you about the English Club thing, but then I remembered that I was briefly a member of both the English and Theatre clubs at university. We actually shared the same student lounge/meeting room. I remember going to meetings where the English majors complained to me about how noisy the Theatre people were, and meetings where the Theatre people complained about how much the English students complain. Few words were exchanged, just the annoyed glances and sighs of some dud reading Balzac. The English students were a highly passive-aggressive bunch, the Theatre students were, well, they were Theatre students.
I think this sort of thing is just emblematic to too-much-alike college departments sharing space with one another; while my father was doing his Ph.D. work in history, he would talk about the endless battles between the History and Philosophy graduate departments, who were on adjacent floors of the same administrative building and had personality clashes near-constantly. I'm surprised they never just settled their differences in a giant Humanities-Off, no holds barred.
Last but not least, I've read about 100 pages into of "Infinite Jest" twice. Both times I've just had to stop and analyze the situation, and realize that I'm just not enjoying the experience of reading it, and the only reason I would carry on is to prove to myself that I could read a book that damn huge.
Good on you. Life is too short to read books that you don't enjoy (or are forced to by academic expectations, but you get the point).
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Good on you. Life is too short to read books that you don't enjoy (or are forced to by academic expectations, but you get the point).
OTOH, sometimes it's just not the right time to read a certain book. I picked up and put down Tristram Shandy three times before I finally read the whole thing. It turned out to be quite good, but I wasn't up for the density the other times I tried. I'm having a similar experience now with Seven Pillars of Wisdom. In fact, I've got a stack by my bed right now of books I previously failed to finish, that Iwant to give another try:
-Dos Passos' USA: I got throught the first two volumes but was tired of his style by the third. On the other hand, I was sixteen and now have a few more years under my belt.
-Hofstadter's Godel Escher Bach: I am probably still too stupid to understand this book past the fourth chapter or so.
-Fuller's Synergetics: not optimistic at all, but I feel like a poser having the thing around if I don't occasionally try to read it.
-Everything E.R. Eddison wrote after The Worm Ouroboros: I love TWO, but have never gotten into the rest of the series (well, it's not really a series, exactly, sort of). How could I own a book called A giraffe Dinner in Memison for this long without having read it?
-Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner: I started this, thought it was really good, put it down, and then never picked it up again for some reason. I've read other great stuff by Brunner, but never this, which is supposed to be his masterpiece.
On the other other hand I tried to read Everything is Illuminated three times and am finally secure in my belief that it's a precious and precocious piece of shit that I don't need to waste my time on.
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-Dos Passos' USA: I got throught the first two volumes but was tired of his style by the third. On the other hand, I was sixteen and now have a few more years under my belt.
Oh, man, I keep almost starting this, and then going into one of my "I only read comic books now" phases. But ONE DAY!
On the other other hand I tried to read Everything is Illuminated three times and am finally secure in my belief that it's a precious and precocious piece of shit that I don't need to waste my time on.
Ha, yeah, suddenly, everybody wants to be Dave Eggers.