The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Achewood => Achewood => Topic started by: Immortal on October 01, 2004, 09:45:31 am
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i know i don't have many posts, and that is automatically going to discredit what i have to say in the eyes of just about everyone here. i have no connection to Mr. Onstad, other than being a loyal reader, much like yourselves. i've been reading through the last couple days' worth of posts, trying to figure out why everyone here seems to hate him with such a passion... i mean, isn't he why you're all here in the first place? i know, i know, you're here for the funny things Roast Beef says or the naive things that Phillippe writes about in his blog, and you're pissed off that you think you see a decline in quality........ grow up. he's making the same kind of strips he's always made, you have just gotten snobbier with your taste. maybe you're a little uneasy about the prospect of a big book deal, you're afraid that your little indie comic will become fodder for Extra! or Entertainment Tonight or something. or maybe you're still pissed off that he quit moderating a message board you frequented more than a year ago. whatever it is, it doesn't make sense. and to just continually rag on the creator of the strip for "not being funny enough" just doesn't make any sense either. if you don't find today's strip funny, try again tomorrow, right? i'm amazed that he's been able to do a strip a weekday for so long, personally. three years is a long time, a nice accomplishment in itself. he's still creating strips that make him laugh (i hope, anyway), and since that's what got Achewood started in the first place, i have no problem with that. and neither should you.
i have plenty more to say, but i think you'd rather i stop now.
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Do you know the only thing worse than being talked about? Not being talked about.
We're all here because we love the strip. It's the funniest thing going. The internet is a wonderful tool that allows us to share our thoughts, positive and negative, about each days strip. It's easy to forget that there's a person behind the strip and that he can read the boards as easily as the rest of us.
But what are we to do? Some days are better than others. Some strips strike me as funny that might do nothing for you. This place allows us to share our thoughts about the comics in a fun, literate way. We don't intend to stop.
You know, if you paid an academic to do a survey of the posts herein I think you'd find that 95% of them are glowing adulation. We deeply care about the characters and slavishly follow everything they do. That should tell you something.
People who produce art and entertainment for the public are subject to criticism. We're all Monday morning quarterbacks trying to live vicariously through our artistic heroes. As Achewood's popularity continues to expand this will only get worse. If you don't like people talking about your work, don't publish it.
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Short version of the answer: you're exactly right -- I really don't respect the opinions of someone who hasn't contributed.
Long version:
If you think we're all dicks, you have exactly two options: post to state your own opinion of the comic, or leave. Nobody is going to force you to do either -- you're welcome to just lurk bitterly into perpetuity if you like -- but if you don't contribute, you have no right to complain about content to which you could have easily contributed.
It is your personal opinion as to whether the strip has gone downhill. I don't believe it has -- I believe the quality of the strip is highly inconsistent, but it's been highly inconsistent ever since the "Philippe is standing on it" days. Some strips are glorious; some strips blow. But I vote with my feet. If I truly disliked Achewood that profoundly, I'd stop reading it.
If you're new to the board, you may or may not have any idea what kind of sweeping generalizations you're making about the board content. Go back and read old threads. Observe the many times in which we are respectful to Mr. Onstad and appreciative of his creation. We are fans; the fact that there's been a collective dislike of the past few strips doesn't change that, although you're welcome to think we're all bitter old curmudgeons if that makes you feel better.
Also, truth in posting: my opinion of Onstad has dropped since he started "defending himself" here. Yes, he's the creator of the strip -- but anyone who comes on the board only to heckle deserves to be met in kind. Trust us, we'd do the same to Gandhi if he came around slinging the shit.
HTH, HAND
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If you think we're all dicks, you have exactly two options: post to state your own opinion of the comic, or leave. Nobody is going to force you to do either -- you're welcome to just lurk bitterly into perpetuity if you like -- but if you don't contribute, you have no right to complain about content to which you could have easily contributed.
That's not really true. I seem to be exploring a third option.
If you're new to the board, you may or may not have any idea what kind of sweeping generalizations you're making about the board content.
I guess this doesn't apply to me, since I was only talking about the posts I quoted, not some kind of overall "board content".
Also, truth in posting: my opinion of Onstad has dropped since he started "defending himself" here. Yes, he's the creator of the strip -- but anyone who comes on the board only to heckle deserves to be met in kind.
He showed up, was heckled, and responded in kind. Not the other way around. Pay attention.
People who produce art and entertainment for the public are subject to criticism.
What the hell kind of criticism is "Cut the crap and give us what we want. Every day." ?
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If you think we're all dicks, you have exactly two options: post to state your own opinion of the comic, or leave. Nobody is going to force you to do either -- you're welcome to just lurk bitterly into perpetuity if you like -- but if you don't contribute, you have no right to complain about content to which you could have easily contributed.
That's not really true. I seem to be exploring a third option.
What, "post about us being dicks without actually posting anything constructive?" That's called "board parasitism."
If you're new to the board, you may or may not have any idea what kind of sweeping generalizations you're making about the board content.
I guess this doesn't apply to me, since I was only talking about the posts I quoted, not some kind of overall "board content".
You're right that it doesn't, unless you're also Immortal. I was referring to Immortal's original post and its discussion of how we must all be bitter indier-than-thou cynics who hate Chris for "selling out" &c., which counterindicated even having lurked that long.
Also, truth in posting: my opinion of Onstad has dropped since he started "defending himself" here. Yes, he's the creator of the strip -- but anyone who comes on the board only to heckle deserves to be met in kind.
He showed up, was heckled, and responded in kind. Not the other way around. Pay attention.
He was heckled because it was assumed he was a troll claiming to be Onstad, which has happened at least once in the past. People generally apologized and greeted him once Jough discerned his identity. After that, well, I hate to get back to playground tactics, but "he started it" in general. (This isn't to say that he hasn't contributed constructively to the board in any way; his comments in the merch thread have been considerate and appreciated.)
People who produce art and entertainment for the public are subject to criticism.
What the hell kind of criticism is "Cut the crap and give us what we want. Every day." ?
I can't speak for August, and I don't entirely agree with his opinions (like I said in the original thread, I'm not gonna begrudge Onstad a vacation ever so often), but I think that the basic complaint that Onstad should have a backlog or otherwise prepare for vacations is reasonable, even though I don't wholeheartedly believe in it.
Look, I'm not going to use ad hominem attacks here. You seem reasonably articulate, and if you'd like to join in board discussion, I have absolutely no problem with it whatsoever. However, if you're going to be here, be here and be constructive -- don't labor to prove to us what short-sighted horrible human beings we are. Come discuss the strip. Really. It's fun.
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Onstad seemed to have a little too much time on his hands yesterday and came around to raise a little muck. And after we found out it was actually Onstad and not some idiot pretending to be him, he was welcomed. He's always been welcome here, but chose not to participate for the first 14 months of the board. No problem, the Prodigal Son has returned and we laid out the feast for him.
Then he took a shit on the feast and told us all to go fuck ourselves and left again. A few others joined the party to tell us how we should be THANKFUL for that and to eat the shit, since he was so gracious to leave it for us.
Anyway, he's not been any more obnoxious than any other member, but he should be aware that we have rules here and that he is not above them. If his only goal is to abuse our members he will have to go.
That goes for the rest of you, too.
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I have always and will continue to call jough out for basically being a dick. He may run this place, but he also acts like an eight-year-old who had his Cheerios pissed in by Onstad and never really got over it. He gets unnecessarily personal a lot for basically no reason, and it's complete bullshit. I would've called him on this yet again in the thread that got locked, but I didn't check this forum in time.
I am not the first nor the only person to notice this about jough.
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FJ seems to think that Onstad can behave attrociously and that people should just bend over and take it because we like his cartoons.
If you're being a dick, I'll call you on it, especially if you're doing it in my home and ruining the enjoyment of my other guests.
I happen to like Onstad (sometimes) and find his writing to be funny and interesting enough to read it on a near-daily basis. I like Faulkner's novels, too, but I don't know if I'd want to hang out with him.
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Jough is a curmudgeon. Jough can be arbitrary. Jough can act rashly. Jough's girlfriend can really *****##### up the board. Jough plays tricks. Jough says mean things sometimes. Jough gets bodily emissions confused once in a great while.
Jough is also fearlessly himself, doesn't really worry about what people think of him and says what he feels. Unlike some members of this board and the challenging presidential candidate, Jough is consistently Jough. Complain about him one time if you want, but understand that you know what you are getting and just deal with it.
Thanks for continuing to host this board, too, Jough. I'm 75% posting to non-Achewood stuff these days because it's the people I like the most - I still read the strip, of course, but this board (for me) has it's own life.
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That's how I feel about it. I'm glad that Achewood has brought us together here because I consider many (if not most) of you friends and enjoy our discussions more than I've enjoyed the strips in the past year.
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Then he took a shit on the feast and told us all to go fuck ourselves and left again.
I didn't leave, I was asleep.
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And then the grinch squatted
And shit on the feast!
He pooped on the who-hash and the rare who roast-beest!
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Jough is a curmudgeon. Jough can be arbitrary. Jough can act rashly. Jough's girlfriend can really *****##### up the board. Jough plays tricks. Jough says mean things sometimes. Jough gets bodily emissions confused once in a great while.
Jough is also fearlessly himself, doesn't really worry about what people think of him and says what he feels. Unlike some members of this board and the challenging presidential candidate, Jough is consistently Jough. Complain about him one time if you want, but understand that you know what you are getting and just deal with it.
Wow, he sounds like a great guy. He's an asshole, but at least he's not some kind of fakey-fake pretending not to be an asshole. Since those are the two options a person has. Good choice, jough.
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Yes, Kapow, we have an open-door policy for assholes here. Welcome to the boards.
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What about for people who aren't themselves? Sometimes I'm this other guy, can he post here too?
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Well, we only allow one account per person, and there's a script that goes through the accounts once every few days and if it finds two users posting from the same IP it deletes both accounts.
So by all means, post as someone else if you'd like.
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DELETE DELETE I CAN DELETE AND BAN YOU I AM LORD OF ALL
I'm not feeling quite myself today.
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Hey, does this mean that since I'm posting here, no one else from my college (http://www.samspade.org/t/lookat?a=128.235.242.52) is allowed to post here?
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DELETE DELETE I CAN DELETE AND BAN YOU I AM LORD OF ALL
I'm not feeling quite myself today.
The hilarious thing is, if Jough was such a tyrant, this post wouldn't exist. The existence of this post is, in fact, some sort of bizarre logical fallacy. Due to this post, the entire fabric of reality is ripping. I just saw Spock walk by, but now he's got a little beard.
And the best thing is, if Jough was randomly banning everything, guess what? HE CAN. Because did you notice the URL up there? Do you realize why "plagiarist" is in that URL? Because Jough PAYS for this site. He OWNS this site. Every time you post about how much Jough's an asshole, you cost him money, a little bit more each time.
You know, it might be an asshole thing to complain about free entertainment. I try not to. However, it's also an asshole thing to complain about how the owner of a site might threaten to stop you from continually pissing on him at his expense.
And I've cost Jough a few more pennies, talking about you. Sorry, Jough, but I'll hit up the tip jar later.
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The hilarious thing is, if Jough was such a tyrant, this post wouldn't exist.
And that's why all his dick-waving and threatening to delete posts by the author of the comic the board is dedicated to is funny. Because he's a pussy.
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Please do not feed the troll.
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Please do not feed the troll. :cry: (http://www.firelily.com/support/depression/trolls.html)
there is a difference between trolling and flaming.
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Dick waving pussies, and creators that themselves disappear when sleeping. Ah, it's good to be back at the old message board.
there is a difference between trolling and flaming.
In truth it's the flaming trolls we have to worry about. Fiendish things that eat our children and wreak havok on our thatch-roofed cottages.
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In truth it's the flaming trolls we have to worry about. Fiendish things that eat our children and wreak havok on our thatch-roofed cottages.
Between flaming trolls and people making movies about Robin Hood your village's fire department must see a lot of action.
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I'm glad that Achewood has brought us together here because I consider many (if not most) of you friends and enjoy our discussions more than I've enjoyed the strips in the past year.
The bolded text is the real crux of the biscuit. A bunch of us have become friends, and though our relationships exist mostly via Net ( with occasional mailings and, for a lucky few, field trips ), we treasure them. Though Chris Onstad's strip was the catalyst for the whole thing, this board exists separately from it, and the discussions of his work are the thing I'm least interested in when I come here. I want to find out what's going on in the minds and lives of the regular posters here, and sometimes I want them to send me CDs so I can hear what the kids are listening to these days.
Yes, Jough can be a dick. ( I didn't really feel like I was a member here until I had engaged him in a minor-league steel-cager over the value of improv comedy. Now I'd take a bullet for him. Or at least a mild, open-handed slap to the shoulder. ) Yes, every once in a while he'll take a slap at Onstad that kinda makes me wonder what the hell that's all about.
Such is life. He started this website and keeps it going on his dime. We like it here. If you don't, no one is forcing you to stick around.
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I guess I don't really notice this so much. The last community like this that I was a part of was in Hecklers Online. And their whole gimmick was that all the HO's were insufferable dicks and performed their moddly duties as such. So this forum seems tamer by comparison. But without the prizes.
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Between flaming trolls and people making movies about Robin Hood your village's fire department must see a lot of action.
Fortunately, our village people keep us in good spirits with their upbeat singing and lively costumes.
Can we change the title of this thread to "the board vs. kapow and that guy that can't die". Obviously we're all in love with Onstad, the strip, and eachother (via internet crushes). If we badmouth the strip, it's because the strip quality varies in our opinions (from pretty good to freaking hilarious), and we like having something in common to talk about.
If a couple of board members don't like the discourse, I suggest they post often and lead by example. My way, for instance, is to drop in every few months and post a couple dozen semi-witty comments to revel in the actually witty responses.
I also post links to pictures of severed c*ckes. Like I said, lead by example.
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See, I've been operating under the assumption that most of the people here are sarcastic bastard smart-asses (my favorite kind of people) and have acted accordingly. See? Easy.
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Between flaming trolls and people making movies about Robin Hood your village's fire department must see a lot of action.
LEAVE US ALONE, MEL BROOKS!!!
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Between flaming trolls and people making movies about Robin Hood your village's fire department must see a lot of action.
LEAVE US ALONE, MEL BROOKS!!!
::high five::
Also, has Pedro been kidnapped? Potentially by evil space aliens who want to make our cereal soggy? Because that would suck. And this reference's obscurity frightens me.
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So wait a second -- y'all established that that really was Onstad on the boards? And you still got all whiny and complained about he doesn't update the free comic strip enough and how he has a responsibility to his fans and how his latest stuff isn't up to snuff?
Classy.
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See, I've been operating under the assumption that most of the people here are sarcastic bastard smart-asses (my favorite kind of people) and have acted accordingly. See? Easy.
Mostly I've been thinking about your boobs ever since you described them.
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So wait a second -- y'all established that that really was Onstad on the boards?
And you still got all whiny and complained about he doesn't update the free comic strip enough and how he has a responsibility to his fans and how his latest stuff isn't up to snuff?
Um, no. Kapow and his ilk are complaining about what is known as the logical fallacy of the "Straw Man" - rallying against an argument that no one ever made.
Sure, some may complain sometime about Onstad not putting up a strip for a day/week, etc., but generally we don't chide him personally about it.
Up until yesterday Onstad maintained that he pretended the board didn't exist and never read it (although obviously he was reading before he posted) but now that he's posting here I don't see anyone complaining TO or AT him about anything.
He took it upon himself to reply to some older threads, and people replied to his responses. That's all.
But when you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle.
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So wait a second -- y'all established that that really was Onstad on the boards? And you still got all whiny and complained about he doesn't update the free comic strip enough and how he has a responsibility to his fans and how his latest stuff isn't up to snuff?
Classy.
There have also been a whole plethora of welcomes, accolades, thank yous, and congratulations peppered throughout several threads on this board in the last two days. For example:
Hey Chris Onstad,
Welcome to our message board. We're very glad you're posting. Your comic strip rises above internet and print comics in such a way that I scarcely consider it to be the same medium. While I sometimes think the strip is not as funny or prompt as other times, I always enjoy reading it, and I think that you are one of the funniest people publishing anything right now. Thanks for making my life somewhat better than it would have been otherwise, and congratulations on what I assume to be a growing success in business and popularity. Also, I am currently wearing a KING OF THE MAKE-OUTS shirt that I'm very pleased with, and while my nipples haven't finished digging holes through it, I assure you, they try every chance they get.
Well maybe not a whole plethora. Maybe just a half a plethora.
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STRAW MAN OMG
Christ, there's few things worse on the internet than idiots talking about logical fallacies. Look at my first post (http://achewood.plagiarist.com/viewtopic.php?p=25767&highlight=#25767), champ - I quoted exactly what I was referring to. I'm pretty sure all of it was said before Onstad even posted here. Just because SolGrundy misunderstood what happened doesn't mean I said it happened.
For the record, the reason I even read this board was that I heard Onstad was posting here. But if I had read it any other time and seen people saying what I quoted there, I would've posted the same thing. I know that wasn't said with Onstad around - hell, I doubt it would've been said had he been here.
oh also I love this:
Sure, some may complain sometime about Onstad not putting up a strip for a day/week, etc., but generally we don't chide him personally about it.
Up until yesterday Onstad maintained that he pretended the board didn't exist and never read it (although obviously he was reading before he posted) but now that he's posting here I don't see anyone complaining TO or AT him about anything.
So it's cool that you all bitch about him and call him a lazy fuck behind his back, as long as you act nice to his face. Smooth.
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Just out of curiousity Chris/Kapow, what exactly are you trying to accomplish here? Do you really want us to shut the fuck up and go away? Not going to happen. Do you want nothing but positive comments? If the rare negative comments are so offensive to you, why come here? Do you really believe yourself to be above criticism?
Is this some Andy Kaufman-esque attempt at performance art? If so, please go back to drawing wonderful comic strips.
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I long for the simpler days of a fanciebabie. Or district.
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Sure, some may complain sometime about Onstad not putting up a strip for a day/week, etc., but generally we don't chide him personally about it.
Up until yesterday Onstad maintained that he pretended the board didn't exist and never read it (although obviously he was reading before he posted) but now that he's posting here I don't see anyone complaining TO or AT him about anything.
So it's cool that you all bitch about him and call him a lazy fuck behind his back, as long as you act nice to his face. Smooth.
didn't seem like they were being all that nice to his face, what with that choop person claiming his reasons for getting rid of the previous message board were REVISIONIST HISTORY (ie lies) and the claim that he shat all over their boards by coming here to defend himself (and call a spade a spade (or an ugly guy ugly)).
didn't seem like kapow was saying DON'T CRITICIZE ONSTAD EVER, either. some people like to point out ridiculous behavior. said ridiculousness in this case was GIVE US WHAT WE WANT EVERY DAY, and the like. it is possible that pointing out ridiculous behavior is THE POINT and the ONLY POINT. hey look at the funny monkey. pointing at the monkey does not make it stop its furious masturbation. pointing isn't meant to stop the furious masturbation.
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Just out of curiousity Chris/Kapow
Dudes can somebody please use computer traceroute technologies to prove that I am not also using other fake accounts to set up Andy Kaufman-style arguments on a messageboard. This "Kapow" dude is fighting his good fight but he is definitely not fighting it from the top of my keyboard keys.
A note to myself is to use Andy Kaufman style tactics to create incredible humor that makes complacent people enormously uncomfortable. Would that this board was experiencing such a great shadow-joke.
And on Friday God relaxed and this huge fart suddenly came out of Him
/C
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Reading Sally's post made me assume that Kapow has a clone, but I never assumed they were Chris...I still think that Chris has pretty much been Mr Nice Guy so far.
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Well, we only allow one account per person, and there's a script that goes through the accounts once every few days and if it finds two users posting from the same IP it deletes both accounts.
So by all means, post as someone else if you'd like.
whuh whuh wait a second there -- that would basically mean that if two people are posting from behind the same firewall both accounts get deleted? Corporate or personal.
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This is true. If more than one person posts from the same computer, one of them should PM me to let me know so that they don't get disabled and not allowed to post.
If you're disabled accidentally it's just a matter of sending a PM so I can turn you back on manually.
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Dudes can somebody please use computer traceroute technologies to prove that I am not also using other fake accounts to set up Andy Kaufman-style arguments on a messageboard.
Can't do that, but kapow included a link to his homepage on his posts. The homepage itself is just a bunch of folders and files.
There's a sub-folder of photos called "me", showing a kid who likes kaiser helmets and cuddly animals. There's also a folder just called "images." The second image is a photo of a cute little doggy. The third image...isn't.
If Onstad did, in fact, set up this page, my hat is off to him.
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There's a sub-folder of photos called "me", showing a kid who likes kaiser helmets and cuddly animals. There's also a folder just called "images." The second image is a photo of a cute little doggy. The third image...isn't.
If Onstad did, in fact, set up this page, my hat is off to him.
Karpow is not Onstad as far as I can tell.
But dude, what's with the Animé porn in the images folder?
WHAT THE FUCK, DUDE?
Anyway, as suspected, Karpow is a child:
http://lotlot.net/photos/me/kaiserkapow.jpg
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Children are cute. That ain't no child. That must be one of the lesser Culkins or something.
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Mostly I've been thinking about your boobs ever since you described them.
When did I do that? Maybe you're thinking of someone else.
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Mostly I've been thinking about your boobs ever since you described them.
When did I do that? Maybe you're thinking of someone else.
I do love a challenge (http://achewood.plagiarist.com/viewtopic.php?p=23134#23134).
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Oh, come now, "truly impressive" could mean one thousand different things to one thousand different people. I'd hardly call that a description.
And AlohaDawg, you must surely be personally acquainted with bosom of at least one pregnant lady. Those aren't my breasts you're picturing, not really.
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Oh, come now, "truly impressive" could mean one thousand different things to one thousand different people. I'd hardly call that a description.
Truly impressive makes me think of a ziggurat.
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Oh, come now, "truly impressive" could mean one thousand different things to one thousand different people. I'd hardly call that a description.
Truly impressive makes me think of a ziggurat.
Which is stupid.
The Ancient Sumerians are all dead.
Thus proving ziggurats are hazardous to your health.
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Oh, come now, "truly impressive" could mean one thousand different things to one thousand different people. I'd hardly call that a description.
And AlohaDawg, you must surely be personally acquainted with bosom of at least one pregnant lady. Those aren't my breasts you're picturing, not really.
Picturing one's reality really makes for a limp fantasy.
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How do we always end up talking about the Ancient Sumerians when you're around, Bobby?
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Now I've just a picture in my head of impressive ziggurat breasts. Boobs should not have steps, people!
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How do we always end up talking about the Ancient Sumerians when you're around, Bobby?
Because only the ancient Near East would have curses like this for business contracts:
Before your very eyes may dogs and swine drag the teats of your young women and the c*ckes of your young men to and fro in the squares of Assur; may the earth not receive your corpses but may your burial place be in the belly of a dog or pig.
-- Parpola, Simo and Watanabe, Kazuko. Neo-Assyrian Treaties and Loyalty Oaths. Helsinki University Press, State Archives of Assyria Vol. 2. 1998.
So many, in fact, that there's a grammatical structure for it.
By the way, just sayin' that that curse would be rad alt text for Achewood.
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The Sumerians come up a lot at my house, but that's only because of my house rule that all phone messages must be scrit in cuneiform.