The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: St_Zartan on February 12, 2005, 09:48:28 pm
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Would you care to share your thoughts on this because I completely don't understand at all.
Off the top of my head, a nowhere nearly complete splurting of my take on the sitch:
-Has to do w/ emotional involvement by readers (viewers, whatever) w/ the characters. Take this kid (http://achewood.plagiarist.com/viewtopic.php?t=1696&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=) for example (still playing it straight, assuming it's not an elaborate prank) - clearly felt as though he had a personal insight into Beef's character worth articulating. The cobbled-together feel of the piece and all the context-free blanks he'd filled in in re: Beef's thoughts and personality suggest he sees something of himself in the character etc etc. HE COULDN'T BE BOTHERED TO MAKE IT GOOD, OH, ANY GOOD AT ALL, BECAUSE HE WAS PROBABLY TOO INVESTED IN IT.
This emotional approach (vs. staying true to the characters and creating something other people could enjoy w/o knowing you) (esp. in the context of slash fiction) is the sort of thing that basically has given fan fiction its shameful, shameful name. Slink says he'd "rather create his own characters", and most creative people probably feel the same way; writing your Very Own Special Magnum P.I. Adventures seems like desperate fanboyism elevated to the level of unhealthy obsession.
You'd think tedious, serialized manga shit like Inuyasha and Dragon Ball Whatever are especially guilty for inspiring this sort of mess, but no - this has been around for (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812213793/102-4339542-1702557?v=glance) fuck*ng (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0415905729/ref=pd_sim_b_1/102-4339542-1702557?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance) ever (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0415078210/ref=pd_sim_b_5/102-4339542-1702557?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance). DID YOU KNOW that people used to make / circulate fan videos (forgot what the fans called them) that were basically montage sequences of their favorite TV characters set to carefully chosen music? Oh yes they did.
-Has to do w/ wanting more of something you enjoy. The first Star Trek series was, what, sixty-odd episodes? But damned if they haven't gone on, like, a zillion adventures, authorized and otherwise. Is everyone who writes Fantastic Four after Stan Lee considered to be writing fan fiction? - No; the writers may be (and almost certainly are) fans of the source material, but the authorization and execution of the work gives them cachet.
I guess. What do I know? The motivations of people who do inaccessible things will always be fascinating.
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DID YOU KNOW that people used to make / circulate fan videos (forgot what the fans called them) that were basically montage sequences of their favorite TV characters set to carefully chosen music? Oh yes they did.
Why in the hell are you putting this in the past tense? People still do this. Hell, my roommate for most of last year spent a sizable portion of the semester putting together a video matching the music of Sting (I believe it was "Desert Rose") with footage from Lexx. (I viewed this; it was very reminiscent of the "hoss staring at a banjo" effect. It was competently enough edited, but what was it? An object from entirely outside my universe, that's what it was.)
You mention Slink's point, that most creative people prefer to create their own characters, and I think that's valid -- but it's important to keep in mind that many, if not most, people writing fanfiction today are basically prose hobbyists, people who don't really consider themselves "creative types" and are just dabbling in it because of love for the media. They enjoy writing because of the show, and thus they don't have any reason to create anthing outside it. Also, for dabblers, fanfiction is the best way for people to actually read your work and care about it; it's remarkably difficult to get an audience for original fiction outside of your close group of friends, but write a fic about the anime du jour and you can easily collect dozens or hundreds of fans who have never met you. There's a strong cult-of-personality element to fanfic.
I think the idea of adding to canon is very appropriate. One of the big root urges for writing fanfiction, IMHO, is the idea of adding onto or "correcting" the canon: "I wonder what happened in that gap between episodes / in character X's backstory / when characters X and Y met?" or "wow, that (ending/plotline/romantic pairing) blew; let's write a better version." This is one of the reasons that the most popular fandoms are things like Harry Potter -- things that have a lot of event holes and hanging details from which to extrapolate.
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DID YOU KNOW that people used to make / circulate fan videos (forgot what the fans called them) that were basically montage sequences of their favorite TV characters set to carefully chosen music? Oh yes they did.
Why in the hell are you putting this in the past tense? People still do this. (AND THEN A BIT ABOUT STING AND LEXX)
Okay, wow. The one I read about was a Starsky & Hutch fan video, which basically highlighted Great Moments of the titular duo palling around, being chummy, having big grinny shenanigans, etc etc, to some "you are so special to me" music. That, and the fact that it was specifically tapes, sort of dated the idea for me.
An object from entirely outside my universe, that's what it was.
I really like that phrasing; it helps to think of the output as artifacts to be examined, much like Lt. Cmdr. Walter "Raw Shark" Kovacs did in my Watchmen / X-COM nine-part crossover epic.
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Also, for dabblers, fanfiction is the best way for people to actually read your work and care about it; it's remarkably difficult to get an audience for original fiction outside of your close group of friends, but write a fic about the anime du jour and you can easily collect dozens or hundreds of fans who have never met you.
That makes it sound like there are loads of people who read this stuff?
I refuse to read even series of books based on films or TV series I enjoy, because on the whole, they aren't written by the same people as the show. Maybe one or two books, but I'm not going to follow some weird alternative reality, or bad, out of character writing, just to read a handful of decent books.
Fan Fiction just seems like that, but so much fuck*ng worse. I guess though, my reasons for not reading it are just due to my approach to the original writing, and I guess a lot of that comes from being a writer and a purist.
If I go and watch Pulp Fiction it's to revel in the dialogue Tarantino writes. I read Pulp Fiction fanfic, and I put money on the fact it doesn't have the same feel. Characters delivering lines that are just wrong &c.
You were right though. In it being like something from another universe. Anthropology 101 at TOUAMB.
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Also, for dabblers, fanfiction is the best way for people to actually read your work and care about it; it's remarkably difficult to get an audience for original fiction outside of your close group of friends, but write a fic about the anime du jour and you can easily collect dozens or hundreds of fans who have never met you.
That makes it sound like there are loads of people who read this stuff?
For the larger fandoms, there is. In the largest ones (fandoms like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings), high-profile fanfiction authors tend to develop cults of personality; there have been a few cases of fanfiction authors who have basically written semi-professionally due to their fans buying them new computers, iPods, &c.
If you want a dramatic depiction of just how far fanfiction has come, check out this site, (http://www.fanfiction.net) one of the most popular and largest fanfiction sites online, and tremble at the sheer volume of material and people.
EDITED to fix my own code malfunctions
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If you want a dramatic depiction of just how far fanfiction has come, check out this site, (http://"http://www.fanfiction.net") one of the most popular and largest fanfiction sites online, and tremble at the sheer volume of material and people.
I'm not sure I can bring myself to, though I may have a look at the horrificness without opening a... story?
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That makes it sound like there are loads of people who read this stuff?
I refuse to read even series of books based on films or TV series I enjoy, because on the whole, they aren't written by the same people as the show.
Nonetheless, the fact that there are so many Star Trek/Star Wars/Whatever License You Care To Indicate novels on the shelves points to a significant reader base for exactly these; they wouldn't be printing so damn much of it if people weren't buying. Now, fanfiction's lack of a barrier to entry means that when it gets bad, it gets very, very bad, and because there are few editors and not much sense of professionalism in fanfiction, the best tie-in novels are better than pretty much any amateur fanfiction. However, the upper boundary of quality for fanfiction is well above the lower boundary of quality for professional tie-in novels, and on top of that it's (with the internet's advent) freely and easily available. With that in mind, it should not be surprising that there is a significant reader base for fanfiction.
Prior to the internet's wide popularity, fanfiction was very much an element of the fanzine subcultures, and so filled a very different social niche. There are seething hostilities in many places where 'zine fanficcers and 'net fanficcers intersect.
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I refuse to read even series of books based on films or TV series I enjoy, because on the whole, they aren't written by the same people as the show. Maybe one or two books, but I'm not going to follow some weird alternative reality, or bad, out of character writing, just to read a handful of decent books.
I'm going to assume the books you will read are Red Dwarf.
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I'm going to assume the books you will read are Red Dwarf.
Yea. I read the four of them but only the first two I liked. And I've read them a bunch of time. They're one of the things I read if I'm really ill or suffering bad insomnia.
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Prior to the internet's wide popularity, fanfiction was very much an element of the fanzine subcultures, and so filled a very different social niche.
Yup. Damnit. Just another reason to hate and despise the internet. So many possibilities, and yet, just so much porn...
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Yup. Damnit. Just another reason to hate and despise the internet. So many possibilities, and yet, just so much porn...
Porn is actually a minority of many fandoms' fanfictions. It does, however, tend to attract the most attention; when the media need a quick article about the degeneracy of the internet, INTERNET SICKIES MAKE BIG BIZ FROM HARRY POTTER STROKE STORIES is an easy grab.
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I once dated a girl who, I soon learned, wrote Harry Potter slash fiction. Then I found out she wanted to watch me do another guy, for her sexual gratification. It was not the longest relationship I've ever been in.
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I once dated a girl who, I soon learned, wrote Harry Potter slash fiction. Then I found out she wanted to watch me do another guy, for her sexual gratification. It was not the longest relationship I've ever been in.
Sweet Jesus. You're going to emerge triumphant from every one-upping "my worst ex..." story conversation you find yourself in for the rest of your life.
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Haahaha, oh no. Oh. NO. This isn't the worst ex story I have, not by a long shot. I believe I mentioned the ex who called me drunk and told me about her new boyfriends massive c*ck and sexual prowness. Did I mention the ex who was hit by a car and went into a coma on our first date, and afterwards became obsessed with me? Or the one who invited me to spent $400 on plane tickets so I could visit her in Asshole, New York, where she acted like she hated me the whole time and then dumped me on our last night together, not before I got a rash from her laundry detergent and was stung on the nipple by a bee in her shower?
FOR MY NAME IS DEATH, AND HELL FOLLOWS WITH ME.
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terrifying ex stories
Jesus, man. What did you do in a previous life to make God punish you so?
Best wishes to you about one day finding a girl on Earth who isn't a total hosebeast.
All I have is the airport candy story, which I don't think counts anyway because I was never dating the guy... but sheeit, stung on the nipple by a bee. And Coma Girl (although, sadly, no Excitement Gang). Jeeee-sus.
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terrifying ex stories
jesus dude, your life is like a frickin' Adam Brodsky song. Did a gypsy woman put a curse on you or something?
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i can't believe a bee stung you on the nipple.
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fan fiction:
jesus christ people, lighten up. lighten up before i go BACK IN TIME and make fun of the things you do as adolescents.
home made music videos:
these are the coolest things ever. if there's a easier way to "show" the "multimedia revolution" i do not know what it would be. "look, some 10 year old in hamburg put rammstein to Gun Smoke, and COLORIZED it."
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fan fiction:
jesus christ people, lighten up. lighten up before i go BACK IN TIME and make fun of the things you do as adolescents.
You assume here that I did not in fact spend my misspent youth reading, writing, and commenting about fanfiction. (Most of what I wrote was MST3K fanfic, if we want true confessions here.)
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DID YOU KNOW that people used to make / circulate fan videos (forgot what the fans called them) that were basically montage sequences of their favorite TV characters set to carefully chosen music? Oh yes they did.
If we're in confession mode, I have to admit having done one of these. When I was in college I got involved in the student TV staion. After having someone train me on the tape editor I spent an evening in the studio editing clips of Jeff Goldblum from various movies to the tune of the first track on Nine Inch Nails "Broken".
In my defense, this was never aired or circulated and was only done as practice using the editing equipment. However, my choice of source material did come from a very real obsession with Mr. Goldblum.
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jesus christ people, lighten up. lighten up before i go BACK IN TIME and make fun of the things you do as adolescents.
God forbid my adolescence be laid bare on the fuck*ng Internet. I can't tell you how many times I've looked at a terrifyingly earnest and atrocious piece of teenage Whatever on the web and thought, I am so fuck*ng lucky this technology wasn't around when I was a kid. Humiliating yourself was a lot harder when you were confined to a few local BBSs and mostly talking about comic books and Trade Wars 2002.
So I'm pretty sympathetic as re: kids / teenagers who get their creative ya-ya's out via the odd fanfic. They can't not expect to get dragged over the coals, though - anyone who's been online for any appreciable period of time must have observed that some of these people are really fuck*ng good at long-distance cruelty. Anyway, I was mostly talking about / interested in adults who do this sort of thing with a level of dedication greater than or equal to "engaged hobbyist".
(Most of what I wrote was MST3K fanfic, if we want true confessions here.)
I forgot about these. Some of them can be very, very funny (I read "an interactive MSTing" of a text adventure called "Detective" (http://www.ifiction.org/games/play.php?game=314&mode=html) that busted my fuck*ng gut - easily one of the funniest things I've ever read, ever) but, yeah. You can imagine just how bad the MST3K concept could be in inept hands, and I do not even want to read about those characters' Special Thoughts & Feelings.
I spent an evening in the studio editing clips of Jeff Goldblum from various movies to the tune of the first track on Nine Inch Nails "Broken".
That's not so much technically under the "fan fiction" umbrella so much as it is fuckin' awesome. You're talking about "Pinion", right?
EDIT: I added a link to "Detective". Everyone should try this.
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Wait, is MST3K fanfic like....commentary on other fanfic? Orrr....either way, MST3K is awesome enough to support a fair number of fanfics, especially when written with the steady hand you have displayed here.
YEAH. IT WAS DECEMBER, THE WASP HID IN MY TOWEL AND STUNG ME ON THE NIPPLE.
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You're talking about "Pinion", right?
Yes, and it's kind of upsetting that I couldn't remember that name. Whatever has become of Angry Gimpson?
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fan fiction:
jesus christ people, lighten up. lighten up before i go BACK IN TIME and make fun of the things you do as adolescents.
You assume here that I did not in fact spend my misspent youth reading, writing, and commenting about fanfiction. (Most of what I wrote was MST3K fanfic, if we want true confessions here.)
Nothing personal, but I can't put Fanfic and MST3K together without pathetic coming out the other side.
Although I felt a little sorry for StarWars Kid (remember him?) I still laughed too. I mean, guys, you just can't post just anything and/or leave some tapes lying around.
Because the cool kids always find them. And then you're forced to choke back hot, snotty tears of shame. For your whole sophomore year.
This could happen to you: Yo Ass Is So Fine (Ypsilanti All-Starz) (http://www.foundmagazine.com/audio/media/yoassissofine.ram)
For more fine examples of inadvertent audio exposure, please check out
Found Magazine (http://www.foundmagazine.com/audio.html) and be sure to click on the Ypsilanti All-Starz. They deserve their 15 minutes of infamy as much as the rest of us.
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This could happen to you: Yo Ass Is So Fine (Ypsilanti All-Starz) (http://www.foundmagazine.com/audio/media/yoassissofine.ram)
That is some funny shit. However, despite what they say on the site, I believe that was intended to be funny.
It reminds me of the Mothers of Invention, in a far less musically talented sort of way.
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To clarify: what I meant by "MST3K fanfic" in my context was a phenomenon better known as "MiSTings," where you basically take the MST3K premise with a bad piece of fanfic and just riff it apart. (My primary target for a while was the work of a dear friend, who wrote terribly bad, earnest fanfic about Disney's Hercules. Oh sweet Christmas.) I know that there are people who actually write about the Secret Thoughts and Feelings of Tom Servo &c., but I can't say I ever did that.
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To clarify: what I meant by "MST3K fanfic" in my context was a phenomenon better known as "MiSTings," where you basically take the MST3K premise with a bad piece of fanfic and just riff it apart. (My primary target for a while was the work of a dear friend, who wrote terribly bad, earnest fanfic about Disney's Hercules. Oh sweet Christmas.) I know that there are people who actually write about the Secret Thoughts and Feelings of Tom Servo &c., but I can't say I ever did that.
Well, jeepers, then, that's not really particularly ignominous at all.
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no. just no.
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Hey Smells!
Also, Aug: Yo' Ass is So Fine is performed with such earnestness and Yo' Shit Be Up in my Face is just so plainly bad that I can't agree that they were going for teh funnay.
I think they really thought they were all 8-mile, all wearing hoodies and pukin' in the shitter before getting schooled on the stage.
It's funny either way, though.
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Hi Aloha,
Did I read in another thread that the new baby's here? Congrats! Hooray!
Somewhat more on topic : fan films http://www.theevilwithin.com/cast.html. I was actually running auditions for two plays I was directing while this fan film was in production. Several actors I auditioned were indicating they were unavailable for call backs on the next Monday, but when asked why said things like "I'd prefer not to say." Upon further investigation it turned out to be one of the shooting days for the fan film. Since this fan film actually paid it's performers, many a starving actor took work on this film inspite of their total disdain. The shame, the shame.
Again, no, just no.
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(http://www.theevilwithin.com/clayton.jpg)
CREATOR / DIRECTOR / PRODUCER
PLAYS JEDI KNIGHT PAXTON TREMANE
Oh ho ho ho. You don't say.
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Darth Animus. Terrific. How about Darth Narky?