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Trivial Pursuits => Science & Nature => Topic started by: Bobby Isosceles on March 05, 2005, 09:44:48 pm

Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: Bobby Isosceles on March 05, 2005, 09:44:48 pm
So, they've spent 45 years in Siberia, domesticating foxes much as primitive man domesticated the wolf. The current generation acts identical to a dog and ostensibly is better at reading human actions than a Chimpanzee. I find that claim doubtful, but they're damn cute:

Cute widdle puppies! (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0208_050208_foxes.html)

(http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/images/050208_foxes.jpg)
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: linnea on March 07, 2005, 05:59:39 pm
OH. MY. GOD.

*head explodes from cute overload*

GODDAMMIT I WANT ONNNNNNNNNNNNNE!! Actually, no. I want two, and they have to be littermates. That would be so rad.

Are these guys pretty good as pets? I would be kind of afraid of having a wild animal in my house. I read an article several years back about people having those desert kit foxes as pets, and they were notorious about pee'ing all over the damn house. Yuck.

Anyway, I don't think I'll be getting any foxes-woxes, because Milan and Lennybruce would probably smother me in my sleep if I did.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: Bobby Isosceles on March 07, 2005, 06:03:04 pm
Quote from: "linnea"
OH. MY. GOD.

*head explodes from cute overload*

GODDAMMIT I WANT ONNNNNNNNNNNNNE!! Actually, no. I want two, and they have to be littermates. That would be so rad.

Are these guys pretty good as pets? I would be kind of afraid of having a wild animal in my house. I read an article several years back about people having those desert kit foxes as pets, and they were notorious about pee'ing all over the damn house. Yuck.

Anyway, I don't think I'll be getting any foxes-woxes, because Milan and Lennybruce would probably smother me in my sleep if I did.


45 years of breeding, with a roughly twice-a-year oestrus, several months of gestation, and maybe one year to sexual maturity? I'd imagine MANY generations have since passed. They should be quite tame.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: linnea on March 07, 2005, 06:27:50 pm
Oh man. I guess that we won't be getting fox kits anytime soon.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1348652/posts
Quote from: "freerepublic"

"Hare and colleagues' latest results are intriguing," says Blumberg. "But much much more work needs to be done before we can make any definitive claims, or generalize beyond the results that they have generated." The specially domesticated foxes are not only socially adept, adds Hare, they are regular charmers. "They behave like dogs," he says. "They whine and bark, they wag their tails, they pee for joy, and they just want to cuddle with you." But don't expect fox kits to be appearing in pet stores any time soon. The foxes have a pungent musk and love to dig and hide food, says Hare. "They would bury your food in your sofa and you would only find it three months later.


Plus the "pee'ing for joy" part sounds pretty bad.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: Bobby Isosceles on March 07, 2005, 06:47:56 pm
Quote from: "linnea"
Oh man. I guess that we won't be getting fox kits anytime soon.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1348652/posts
Quote from: "freerepublic"

"Hare and colleagues' latest results are intriguing," says Blumberg. "But much much more work needs to be done before we can make any definitive claims, or generalize beyond the results that they have generated." The specially domesticated foxes are not only socially adept, adds Hare, they are regular charmers. "They behave like dogs," he says. "They whine and bark, they wag their tails, they pee for joy, and they just want to cuddle with you." But don't expect fox kits to be appearing in pet stores any time soon. The foxes have a pungent musk and love to dig and hide food, says Hare. "They would bury your food in your sofa and you would only find it three months later.


Plus the "pee'ing for joy" part sounds pretty bad.


Foxes are canids that act more like felids; many dogs are being bred with cat-like traits (like the basenji). I'd like to breed a cat that acts more like a dog.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: AugustWest on March 07, 2005, 06:49:27 pm
FOXES!!!

/Festrunk brothers...
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: CortJstr on March 07, 2005, 07:54:47 pm
Quote from: "AugustWest"
FOXES!!!

/Festrunk brothers...

AW,

You. Are. Rad.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: slink on March 07, 2005, 08:39:42 pm
Quote from: "linnea"

Plus the "pee'ing for joy" part sounds pretty bad.


It took a remarkable time for my parents to persuade their new dog (half whippet, half... something) to not pee joyously. And when she arrived home she insisted on going out to pee for the first few weeks too.

http://slink.canadian-studies.net/puppyodoom.jpg
She is ever so cute though.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: wombat on March 07, 2005, 08:53:40 pm
Quote from: "linnea"
I would be kind of afraid of having a wild animal in my house.


Um, can I just interject that this is a really sound instinct, and you should pay attention to it.

As for the peeing all over sort of thing... Some animals naturally pay attention to where they eliminate - think of dogs who use it to mark their territory - and some don't - think of hosss that just let loose as they walk down the street.  The former kind of animal has the potential to be housetrained, with the latter kind of animal it's impossible.   I don't know why foxes are different from dogs in this respect but apparently at least some kinds are.  So, buyer beware.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: V-Adore on March 07, 2005, 09:18:31 pm
I've heard about these before. The general consensus is that they are, in fact, really quite tame; that said, well, even the tamest canids tend to be a bit messy, so be prepared. They might be viable pets if you're willing to be careful, but in general wombat speaks the truth.

Also, what a cute puppy, Slink! It is definitely "half whippet, half something."
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: CortJstr on March 07, 2005, 09:27:56 pm
Just let me know when they domesticate pygmy marmosets. Haven't you always wanted a hand-held monkey?
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: wombat on March 07, 2005, 09:36:43 pm
Ugh, marmoset poop is something you really don't want in your house.  Although the pygmy marmoset is the least offensive.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: Pedro Picasso on March 07, 2005, 10:01:09 pm
Quote from: "slink"
It took a remarkable time for my parents to persuade their new dog (half whippet, half... something) to not pee joyously.


A friend of mine who had a dog which would pee when frightened.  He said it was mistreated before he got it.  One day he was doing some very important work while the dog yipped and yipped and yipped.  He was getting fed up when he realized he had to carry a large load of precariously stacked objects upstairs.  He started doing this when the phone rang.  He tripped over the dog while going to answer the phone and yelled, "Dammit DOG!" as loudly as he could.   The little dog's eyes grew to the size of silver dollars, and in the space he was sitting there grew puddle the size of a manhole cover.

I thought this story was hilarious.  But then anything was hilarious when I was selling treadmills at Sears.  Anything other than selling treadmills at Sears.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: slink on March 07, 2005, 10:09:05 pm
Quote from: "Pedro Picasso"

A friend of mine who had a dog which would pee when frightened.


We had a friend who had a dog, similarly afflicted (although with Jake I think it was purely out of stupidity rather than anything else). My brother and I were setting off camping with them one evening, and were walking towards their front door, sleeping bags draped over shoulders and the like, I guess looking vaguely inhuman, and Jake, who our friend was holding by the collar, stared at us as we approached, before peeing all over the guys foot.

The finest occasion on which he did this, and rather discerningly, was when he was being walked past the house up the road, whose owners had a pair of yippity little Jack Russells. As they ran over to him yelping and snapping, he just cocked his leg and peed on them. I think that's getting right to the heart of marking territory.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: Bobby Isosceles on March 08, 2005, 01:52:21 am
Quote from: "wombat"
Quote from: "linnea"
I would be kind of afraid of having a wild animal in my house.


Um, can I just interject that this is a really sound instinct, and you should pay attention to it.

As for the peeing all over sort of thing... Some animals naturally pay attention to where they eliminate - think of dogs who use it to mark their territory - and some don't - think of hosss that just let loose as they walk down the street.  The former kind of animal has the potential to be housetrained, with the latter kind of animal it's impossible.   I don't know why foxes are different from dogs in this respect but apparently at least some kinds are.  So, buyer beware.


I think The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris may help in this. (It's also a kickass book in general). Basically, solitary eaters tend to be more likely to shit wherever, and pack animals tend to consolidate their poo for territory-marking and instinctive hygiene. Also, carnivores tend to be more tidy than herbivores.

A fox is a carnivore, but it also is a solitary animal, so it would be less tidy than, say, a dog pack. Considering the entire house its territory, it would void itself wherever it saw fit. No sense of pack decorum.

That's the difference between a domesticated fox (or cat) and a domesticated dog. A fox views us as littermates; a dog as packmates.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: Golfhaus on March 08, 2005, 04:08:02 am
Quote from: "linnea"
Plus the "pee'ing for joy" part sounds pretty bad.


I dunno... sounds kinda fun. I may start doing that myself.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: St_Zartan on March 08, 2005, 07:14:07 am
Quote from: "Golfhaus"
Quote from: "linnea"
Plus the "pee'ing for joy" part sounds pretty bad.


I dunno... sounds kinda fun. I may start doing that myself.


It's actually sort of adorable, when you forget the urine and consider that you're dealing with an animal that is, by definition, without a concept of restraint. I remember when I was a little kid, and I visited a pet store and asked to handle a cocker spaniel puppy. This puppy was, apparently, delighted to meet me. (In retrospect, sadly, from the state of the that pet store, that poor dog would have been happy for any moments outside its miserably small and uncomfortable cage.) It was just so excited, it couldn't help itself. There's something pure about that.

I've got a pet guinea pig; they literally leap directly into the air, with all of their strength, when they're happy. It serves no purpose. They just do. It's like that. It's the most wonderful thing in the world.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: Bobby Isosceles on March 08, 2005, 01:37:38 pm
Quote from: "St_Zartan"
Quote from: "Golfhaus"
Quote from: "linnea"
Plus the "pee'ing for joy" part sounds pretty bad.


I dunno... sounds kinda fun. I may start doing that myself.


It's actually sort of adorable, when you forget the urine and consider that you're dealing with an animal that is, by definition, without a concept of restraint. I remember when I was a little kid, and I visited a pet store and asked to handle a cocker spaniel puppy. This puppy was, apparently, delighted to meet me. (In retrospect, sadly, from the state of the that pet store, that poor dog would have been happy for any moments outside its miserably small and uncomfortable cage.) It was just so excited, it couldn't help itself. There's something pure about that.

I've got a pet guinea pig; they literally leap directly into the air, with all of their strength, when they're happy. It serves no purpose. They just do. It's like that. It's the most wonderful thing in the world.


They also leap into the air when you have three males in a 20 square foot cage fighting for dominance:

I have pictures, but they're huge, so PM me if you want them.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: Golfhaus on March 08, 2005, 04:47:21 pm
Guinea pigs are pretty damn awesome. I had one when I was younger. He loved nothing more than when I took the cage part off his cage and put it outside, and let him sit in the grass. He actually ended up dying there one warm spring day, in the sun and the grass. It helped me get over his death to know that when he died, he was exactly where he wanted to be, above anyplace else.

Small enough to carry and small enough to keep anywhere, emotive enough to be interesting. And when they start scurrying, they BURST with CUTENESS.

All hail the pigs of Guinea.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: linnea on March 08, 2005, 05:47:38 pm
I was the proud owner of 2 guinea piggies for about half a day. I built them a huge open-topped cage and covered the bottom with Carefresh and hay. As I stood there, watching them scurry around, I realized that I had basically boughten a pair of four-legged furry chickens. People in South America raise them for meat. I love animals, but I just couldn't handle the piggies. I took them back to the pet shop.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: slink on March 08, 2005, 07:28:58 pm
I had a few pairs of guinea pigs. Two in particular were really nice - a crowned dark chocolate coloured one and an albino one.
Before that when I was a kid I had two that lived with my rabbit, who lived himself to a remarkable age. They kept breaking out though, and in the end did make a run for it with success. My rabbit however was sat at the edge of his hutch eating dandelions as ever with the door wide open. He just refused to even consider leaving.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: Golfhaus on March 09, 2005, 03:36:05 am
Quote from: "linnea"
I was the proud owner of 2 guinea piggies for about half a day. I built them a huge open-topped cage and covered the bottom with Carefresh and hay. As I stood there, watching them scurry around, I realized that I had basically boughten a pair of four-legged furry chickens. People in South America raise them for meat. I love animals, but I just couldn't handle the piggies. I took them back to the pet shop.


If it's the same place where you bought that bread-shaped cat, I can certainly understand why. What were the guinea pigs shaped like, meatloaf?
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: CortJstr on March 09, 2005, 02:01:50 pm
Quote from: "Golfhaus"
Quote from: "linnea"
I was the proud owner of 2 guinea piggies for about half a day. I built them a huge open-topped cage and covered the bottom with Carefresh and hay. As I stood there, watching them scurry around, I realized that I had basically boughten a pair of four-legged furry chickens. People in South America raise them for meat. I love animals, but I just couldn't handle the piggies. I took them back to the pet shop.

If it's the same place where you bought that bread-shaped cat, I can certainly understand why. What were the guinea pigs shaped like, meatloaf?

Don't be silly. They're much to small to be a proper meatloaf. They were shaped like muffins.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: linnea on March 09, 2005, 06:51:27 pm
Quote from: "CortJstr"
Quote from: "Golfhaus"
Quote from: "linnea"
I was the proud owner of 2 guinea piggies for about half a day. I built them a huge open-topped cage and covered the bottom with Carefresh and hay. As I stood there, watching them scurry around, I realized that I had basically boughten a pair of four-legged furry chickens. People in South America raise them for meat. I love animals, but I just couldn't handle the piggies. I took them back to the pet shop.

If it's the same place where you bought that bread-shaped cat, I can certainly understand why. What were the guinea pigs shaped like, meatloaf?

Don't be silly. They're much to small to be a proper meatloaf. They were shaped like muffins.


Man, I really wanted to like them. They are like little furred cattle, running around and grazing. I would have liked to have fed them veggies and treats, and let them graze out on the lawn. However, the actual physical sight of the 'pigs was way different than my mental preconception of cuteness. When I looked at their little eyes, so much like that of a chicken, I could not shake the image of someone with chickens, goats, and other assorted livestock running around the house.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: wombat on March 09, 2005, 06:58:19 pm
Quote from: "CortJstr"

Don't be silly. They're much to small to be a proper meatloaf. They were shaped like muffins.


At our local Whole Foods they sell meatloafs that, now that I think of it, and I wish I hadn't, are exactly the size of guinea pigs.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: linnea on March 09, 2005, 07:03:12 pm
Quote from: "wombat"
Quote from: "CortJstr"

Don't be silly. They're much to small to be a proper meatloaf. They were shaped like muffins.


At our local Whole Foods they sell meatloafs that, now that I think of it, and I wish I hadn't, are exactly the size of guinea pigs.


When I lived in Boulder, there was this hippie pizza joint called "Fatty J's" that had these delicious pizza rolls (they were called "Blunts"...hurr hurrr hurrrr). They were about hamster-sized. Now I forever associate small furred mammals with savory treats. The meatloaf story just corroborates my vision.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: slink on March 09, 2005, 08:33:31 pm
Quote from: "linnea"

"Fatty J's"


Can't say that's a name that would make me particularly want to eat something. That said it was when my parents discovered Sloppy Joes that we started eating them.

I saw something just the other night in which someone tried a takeaway guinea pig, and I can't say it looked particularly appetising.
Title: Domesticated Foxes - Rather Cute
Post by: linnea on March 09, 2005, 11:08:38 pm
I would just like to say that saying "meatloafs" and "meatloaves" are both equally great.

Also, whenever I see wombat's avatar it makes me want to crochet her a poncho! See this picture of Martha Stewart for reference.

(http://socialitelife.com/images/marthaponcho.jpg)