The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => People & Places => Topic started by: bdeth dot com on June 29, 2005, 02:55:07 pm
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I am looking for some creative professionals & lay people to give an honest critique of my website (http://www.bdeth.com). A compliment of my site yesterday shot my page views through the roof* and I would like to know some people's opinions. I recommend that you do not use Internet Explorer and I suggest that your screen resolution be greater than 800x600 if you would like to participate. Thanks and happy critiquing.
*page views 6/27: 0; page views 6/28: 114
Edited to add url to poll.
Edited to remove unlinkable url from poll.
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Yeah, Anadalucias comment spurred me ('mongst others apparently) to check it out. Content light but A-OK.
Ditto.
Very pretty sight, but not a lot there. I viewed in IE at work and it looked fine.
~Paul
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It seems all right from here. I found the nag on the splash page about IE a bit irritating (I have Firefox on my home box, but I'm checking the board from work, so bear with me; also, I suspect any IE user who would click on your link has already been lectured about Firefox about a billion times). Will check again once I get home; withholding vote for now.
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also, I suspect any IE user who would click on your link has already been lectured about Firefox about a billion times
Yes. Jesus Christ, yes. I have my own reasons for using IE, and nothing annoys me more than when a site nags me about getting the superior browser. Even worse is when the site is completely incompatible with IE.
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Any web site that has a content-free intro page that requires me to click something to get into the site pisses me off.
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True, I should have noted that the content leaves something to be desired and that it is still under construction. I really just wanted feedback on the design/aesthetics of the site and the user friendliness. I cannot however, retract my statement about IE and I have my own reasons. I know for certain that many important parts of the site simply do not show when using IE on a Mac and for those on a PC, I want to help people branch out.
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Yeah, splash screens are so 1996.
Also, I'm not going to change my display resolution or browser size to view your site. And if I want to view it on my PDA I guess I'm screwed, huh?
But it's neat looking.
Also, when I click on the ceiling fan, nothing happens.
NOTHING.
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I'm getting a vibe. Does anyone use a Mac?
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I also went straight for the ceiling fan. The design made me feel like I'd woken up in a room with no memory of how I got there and a locked door. I wanted to start looking in garbage cans for screwdrivers &c. But maybe that's because I've been playing too many Crimson Room knock-offs lately.
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It seems all right from here. I found the nag on the splash page about IE a bit irritating (I have Firefox on my home box, but I'm checking the board from work, so bear with me; also, I suspect any IE user who would click on your link has already been lectured about Firefox about a billion times). Will check again once I get home; withholding vote for now.
V, it's worse than that, since I got the nag even though I am viewing the site in Firefox.
And why promote Mozilla, which has ceased production? Firefox is where it's at.
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Also, making the browser wider than 800px makes no difference. You're not missing anything.
So why the message?
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I should also note that I went from finding this site "kinda interesting looking but nothing to do or read there" to "really irritating" in the space of this thread.
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also, I suspect any IE user who would click on your link has already been lectured about Firefox about a billion times
Yes. Jesus Christ, yes. I have my own reasons for using IE, and nothing annoys me more than when a site nags me about getting the superior browser. Even worse is when the site is completely incompatible with IE.
I didn't take it personally.
~Paul
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Come to think of it, what is the purpose of your site other than to nag people to switch their browser and screen resolution?
~Paul
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Important note about screen size: If your browser's viewable area is equal to or less than 760x420px you will not be able to see the navigation bar without scrolling. Not because of the width of your browser window but because of the height. It is a safe assumption that if your screen resolution is 800x600 or less, your browser's viewable area will not be much greater than 760x420. So open that window up real big. Also, I'm still a novice web designer and wasn't sure how to program my site to detect your browser before displaying the message.
Important note about the link to Mozilla: It takes you straight to Firefox.
Edited for spelling
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Come to think of it, what is the purpose of your site other than to nag people to switch their browser and screen resolution?
That is the purpose. Plus to direct potential clients who want to hire me to design artwork.
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Come to think of it, what is the purpose of your site other than to nag people to switch their browser and screen resolution?
That is the purpose. Plus to direct potential clients who want to hire me to design artwork.
I want to change my vote.
~Paul
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Well, if we're going to critique websites, I designed a website for the the place I play Bridge (http://www.gimpysoft.com/bs/). Does anybody know any good web calendar software? I think that's the next thing I need to do before this goes live.
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Content +
Design _eh_
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Your website wants me to switch away from IE as well, which is pretty perplexing since I am on a Macintosh using Camino and do not have IE anywhere on my computer. I think I am about as switched-away from IE as it is possible to get. Also it wants me to reset my browser resolution, or maybe it does not. I do not know what my browser resolution is except that "the window is a little wider than absolutely necessary for most of the web sites I go to but not so wide that I can't keep an eye on other windows as needed". It is wide enough to read Achewood and Overcompensating but not always wide enough to read Wigu. Then again for all I know you just put up a front page that never changes and just sort of assumes the person needs to be lectured at to switch away from IE and expand his browser.
I did not expand my browser because I figured it was wide enough (nothing appeared to be cut off from the white expanse with which I was presented on the first page) so I got into your website, which would be pretty nice as the backdrop for a comic but is also a totally opaque design. I do not know what clicking on anything will do. The ceiling fan does not do anything; will it eventually do something? What will it do that will make me think "I should click on a ceiling fan to see this thing that I want to see"? On the plus side it does convey a very nice sense of desolation except when the picture in the frame winks at me.
I clicked on your box and apparently your desk is inside. Your desk is covered in some kind of white crap (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/bdethdesk.jpg), which would not instill confidence in me as a hypothetical customer of your graphic-design thing, assuming that a graphic-design thing is the kind of thing being promoted. I went back and clicked on your winking picture and I was led back into the same room except the picture had a permanent wink now. This led to the kind of feeling Cort described where I felt like I needed to go back in the box and find a yellow key-card before the picture would let me through into a different room.
I do not like your web site very much. I have a feeling that people who want to spend money to have someone design a nice-looking thing for them also will not like this web site very much.
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Thank you for your feedback, Mr. Ben. The white crap is the matte applied to a GIF file when made transparent on the web. It was between white or black, and since most of the image is against a white background most of the time, white was the obvious choice. To answer your other questions, read back a couple of posts.
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Okay, at home now... and yes, it is still nagging me about IE, despite the fact that I'm checking the page in Firefox. If you have to have a nag, could you at least make it check the browser first? Nags overall are irritating, but nags when you're using the "correct" browser already are just inexplicable.
Ignoring content for now, since there's not much of it. The style is... slightly bizarre. Is the choice to leave just a giant amount of white space a deliberate artistic decision? (It especially weirds me out on the "show my stuff" page, since we have this tiny computer screen showing the image and GIANT GAPING WHITE SPACE on the right side of the screen.) Highlighting the "About Me"/"Contact Me"/"Show My Stuff" options in grey when you penis over the appropriate links is good, but they're remote enough that it isn't particularly convenient. I feel like you're asking a lot of us in screen resolution and then just not using the space well, which is troublesome.
Overall, it could use some cleaning up and reorganization. It's a good start, but it needs work.
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Since you're not making your site work well with IE anyway, why not use an alpha-channel transparent PNG so that you don't have to worry about aliasing?
And if you don't know how to do that, get the fuck out of Malibu, Lebowski.
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Also, Comcast can suck my fuck*ng balls. Down for three freaking hours today... so far.
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the index page is entitled:
"Welcome/Get Out".
i like that.
it's pretty easy, either the viewer is WELCOME or they can GET OUT.
that's a pretty easy concept.
i like how you say that a specific viewing software is NOT RECOMMENDED and then SUGGEST an alternative.
i hate AUTOMATED BULLSHIT CRAP for stuff where the ABILITY TO READ would be sufficient. your index page seems to take for granted the ABILITY TO READ, and i have to say i support that.
i could give a fuck what you think my resolution should be, but i APPRECIATE that you WARN ME that my resolution might be WRONG for viewing YOUR site, such that if it IS WRONG, and i enter, then it's ON ME for it not viewing right due to RESOLUTION ISSUES. nothing pisses me of QUITE LIKE some dipshit trying to AUTOMAGICALLY resize my browser.
i don't like that only the white "bdeth.com" of the black stripe at the top is a link. i hate wondering if something is or is not a link, and having to frantically move the cursor about, to and fro, desperately wondering if i'll find what to click or if i will fail. i don't need that stress, i have enough stress, i can not remember how much coffee i've already had today and i don't need to frantically try to find a link.
i like that you normally linked, underlined, "come on in" since that is how i've learned to recognize a link since 1994.
index2 is pretty. i like B&W stuff. it's simple, it makes me happy. i suck absolutely at making things look pretty. i can not draw a straight line with a ruler. index2 is pretty.
remeber what i wrote up there about not needing the stress? about the stree with having to hunt for a link? ok, yes, i DID MEAN IT.
generally, when i'm somewhere in a site, and i see the site's logo, that logo is usually a link back to that site. EVEN ON THE MAIN PAGE.
the picture winking is neat. if i could do stuff like that then TOOFY THE TOOTH would be a winking sunnavabitch. i am envious of your wink making.
i hate the hunting for/finding links, but i appreciate that you put, on the navigation bar at the bottom, the contact, learn about me, and see my stuff links. i assumed they were links, and i was right.
i like that if i feel like stressing out and trying to FIND a link from the pictures of shit, that if i put my cursor over the item, it changes the state of the corresponding entry in the nav menu. that is a nice touch.
to repeat: THAT IS A NICE TOUCH.
the desktop wallpaper thingee does not follow that. that is sad. perhaps it's not a consistent site design thing, and it's just a short term added item? i do not know.
i hate to agree with these other people because i am hot and very irritable (and stressed out now) but WHY WON'T THE CEILING FAN WORK?
or the couch?
it's very "pretty" though, and i bet someone will pay you way too much money to make something pretty in the future.
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It's nice to see someone appreciating and understanding my work.
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DAMMIT ARKABEE you ruined what I was going to say.
~Paul
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Now, I may have been under the wrong impression here, but I thought this place was about _education_.
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To what do you all think that the ceiling fan and couch should link? I had no intentions.
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To what do you all think that the ceiling fan and couch should link? I had no intentions.
I can't think of anything in particular, but this points out that you might want to more clearly differentiate what furniture bits are links and which are just decorative. The relative sparseness makes us assume (well, it makes me assume, anyway) that everything is relevant; this may be problematic. The people who mentioned the "click on random things" style of Flash puzzle have a certain point.
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PNG's are here!
and they're spectacular
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http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/mysterymeatnavigation.html
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Are you trying to keep me on the defensive?
I do appreciate all of the good advice, however. I'm still trying to hunt down and write up some browser detection code.
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I do appreciate all of the good advice, however. I'm still trying to hunt down and write up some browser detection code.
Dude, why not just make your site work right with both IE and Firefox? It can be done.
Also, are you generating that CSS on the fly? Why do you have all styles in attributes instead of putting your styles into a single stylesheet file and letting people download it once instead of every time they load your page?
We're all about education here. No need to be defensive. In the future you should say something like "I don't really want any criticism I just want you all to tell me how wonderful I am" in threads you post asking people what they think of your web site.
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To what do you all think that the ceiling fan and couch should link? I had no intentions.
Here is the basic problem with the ceiling fan and the chaise longue.
Your method of web site design creates a "virtual space". This virtual space is a desolate and empty room, with content to be achieved by clicking on objects. Each object is a metaphor for a link. The box of stuff will take you to your collection of stuff. The picture of a face will take you to information about a person. The picture of a telephone will take you to a means of communication.
The only objects that belong in this navigational virtual space are those which are metaphors for links. Imagine if, for instance, when you opened up a window in your windowed operating system of choice, in addition to the icons which are metaphors for your directories, your programs, and your files, there were also random icons of approximately the same size and style which would have absolutely no meaning or effect when clicked on. Also, there would be no labels on any of these icons, so you wouldn't know which ones are meaningless decoys until you clicked on them and nothing happened.
Why does your operating system do this? The only answer is that it is badly designed, or designed with hate. It is nice to have a beautiful sense of desolation in your virtual space, but having established a system whereby objects are metaphors for links, having in the same space objects which are not metaphors for links only creates decoys that frustrate and confuse your users. Also, if the objects are bad metaphors, they will likewise create frustration. At the least, you should be able to think "All right, I want to (xxx); this is the object that looks most like a metaphor for (xxx)ing." and then click on that object and go off to (xxx).
This is pretty rambling, so what it comes down to is: do not ask what the ceiling fan should do. The ceiling fan should not exist unless there is a thing you want your website to do for which the most apt metaphor in your desolate space is a ceiling fan. I have no idea what such a thing would be.
This all assumes, of course, that you want to stick with this method of opaque navigation, but I do not think you are likely to be dissuaded from it.
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Now, I may have been under the wrong impression here, but I thought this place was about _education_.
Two questions:
1) Is this website and thread some sort of obscure social experiment?
2) Are you old enough to buy cigarettes or pornography in the United States?
3) How many questions did I say?
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Investigative.
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I thought I should chime in at this point and say, "I love this thread." The man asks for website feedback, and gets honest, helpful, only snarky at times website feedback.
As soon as I've got content on mine, I may have to do the same.
As for my actual website review, echo what everyone else has said, mostly. I spent a lot of time making sure mine is compatible with IE and Firefox (and Opera, and Konqueror...) because I'd rather it was functional/beautiful for 100% of the population rather than just for the Firefox crowd. Now, I'm a member of the Firefox crowd, and firmly think everyone should be, but facts is facts, and they're not. So, compatibility is key.
Unlike everyone else, I have no major problem with the ceiling fan. Since I couldn't think of a destination that would be conjured by the image of a ceiling fan, I didn't click on it, and I didn't miss anything. But, some sort of textual labeling might be a good idea, if only for accessibility reasons. I like to think about the blind/lynx users that might be visiting my website.
Lastly - Jough is spot-on about the CSS. What gives? It basically defeats the purpose of CSS to go embedding it in the HTML like that - that should be reserved for specific items which for some reason or another need to override their given attributes.
Other than that, I do really like the aesthetics, it's just light on content.
Wake me when you've got version 2.0 up.
acoxcae
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Now, I may have been under the wrong impression here, but I thought this place was about _education_.
Two questions:
1) Is this website and thread some sort of obscure social experiment?
Are you referring to TOUAMB or to bdeth's? site? 'Cause if you're asking that question about this board, all I can say is, duh.
2) Are you old enough to buy cigarettes or pornography in the United States?
Who buys porn anymore? Welcome to 1996.
3) How many questions did I say?
Hi Opal!
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the couch would make a splendid link to a message board, metaphor intact depending.
please don't waste your efforts inventing browser AUTOMAGICAL detection crap, it would make kevbob cry.
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http://www.bdeth.com/contact_me.html
it is a motiff? yes, i just looked it up, it is a motif (one "ef").
i appreciate "link!" next to your email link. you are good at making pretty things.
from the wallpaper page:
" Finally, click the computer screen to download the desktop."
if you are going to actually make "instructions", and go through the motions of assuming that someone would need "instructions" to download a picture, then plase make actual instructions rather than "instructions".
i use a test when i'm particularly frustrated with a customer not understandning what is so obviously fuck*ng obvious. i call it the "my mom test":
would my mom understand?
if the answer is no, then the customer is not the stupid asshole, i am. because my mom is no stupid asshole and i'll kick your ass for even thinking it let alone saying it.
bdteh, i recommend you have a moment of zen with http://www.bdeth.com/desktops.html and pretend you are not you but that you are someone else COMPLETELY.
because i have a sneaking suspicion that when you made that page you THOUGHT you were THINKING like you were someone else, but you weren't really pretending you just thought you were.
what i'm trying to say is that you wrote down instructions for something "easy", and the instruction amount to telling them that they are stupid for needing the instructions, because if they knew how to download the picture they wouldn't click instructions.
and i'm not being more a prick than normal, i'm edumacating.
also, it's possible that you have your browser setup that when you click on the desktop it prompts to save as...
my browser just opens the gif into another window.
which, again, if the user understood that it did just download, into cache, and could find their cache, then they wouldn't likely need instructions.
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because i have a sneaking suspicion that when you made that page you THOUGHT you were THINKING like you were someone else, but you weren't really pretending you just thought you were.
That's what you think.
Or at least it's what I thought you think.
My head hurts.
I don't know
THIRD BASE!
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I'm back from vacation in Costa Rica. I decided not to even think about computers for a week so I'm still catching up on everything. Thank you, everyone for all of your comments and taking the time to look at my site and give feeback. Criticism is what I wanted. Really, Jough.
Now, just a quick summary and conclusion to this thread:
1) I am a novice web designer.
2) The page is under sporadic construction.
3) The "metaphoric links" are optional.
4) There is also an obvious nav bar.
5) The IE reference is for Mac users and will probably be changed along with the spash page.
6) Right-click the deskop once the image has loaded. (I thought that was a given in 2005)
7) I am a novice web designer and didn't fully understand the CSS thing. How do I fix that?
Thanks again everyone.
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Also I forgot to reiterate:
8)Desolate minimalism is where it is at.
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5) The IE reference is for Mac users and will probably be changed along with the spash page.
6) Right-click the deskop once the image has loaded. (I thought that was a given in 2005)
I do not understand in what way the IE reference is for Mac users. I am a Mac user and have been for years and I have never used IE on a Mac. Is "Mac users" code for something here that does not mean people who use Apple Macintoshes?
Also, it is probably related but I have no damn idea what number 6 there is even supposed to mean.
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Also I forgot to reiterate:
8)Desolate minimalism is where it is at.
Desolate minimalism is all well and good, but a lot of the time this minimalism just feels like you don't know how to use your space. For example, the stuff page (http://www.bdeth.com/see_my_stuff.html) still bugs me because the space use is weird and kind of wasteful. You have a huge chunk of just blank space on the page, but your pictures appear in this teeny window... and, when clicked on, open up a pop-up window that's not much bigger. Why not dedicate the giant chunk of wasted space in the upper right to a bigger "viewing area" for pictures that would eliminate the pop-up and give your stuff more room? Telling me to hugeify my window on your splash page and then wasting that space is just kind of insulting.
Also: yes, it is good that you have a navbar. It is bad that the navbar is tiny, in the lower right-hand corner, and much less prominent than the Metaphorical Ceiling Fan of Sadness.
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Also, there is nothing about you on the "Learn About Me" page. Are we supposed to learn that you are vacuous?
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Also, it is probably related but I have no damn idea what number 6 there is even supposed to mean.
"what i'm trying to say is that you wrote down instructions for something "easy", and the instruction amount to telling them that they are stupid for needing the instructions, because if they knew how to download the picture they wouldn't click instructions. "
for a long period of time, people have had various levels of expectations towards my capacity to explain to them how to do things that they do not know how to do but that i do. most of these things, certainly the things that stand out in my memory, seem to be trivial to me and quite simple.
obviously, however, they are not trivial NOR simple to them, else they would not ask me (or they are complete assholes who refuse to think for themselves. but to assume them all complete assholes fails my "would my mother be able to do it?" test, thus making ME the asshole, because my mother certainly is not an asshole, and the technician who instructs as though she were receives, as a mere appetizer to a 7 course meal of my wrath, a complimentary circumcision (male, female, and/or additional) with the a.t-s.r cat 5 crimpers).
i have tendency to be overly verbose in such a way as to actively suck away any possible communication.
thus, to shorten:
if you choose to write instructions for something "trivial", do so robustly since it is counter productive to have instructions for a "trivial" action wherein other "trivial" actions are required.
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This is a good point, ark. I also sort of wish the page didn't take such a weirdly patronizing, scolding tone at points. I don't want to be told to "open that window up real big" or be scolded against setting my desktop wallpaper on Stretch. When you feel there need to be instructions, make them simple, thorough, and factual; don't treat your viewer like s/he needs to be hand-held through viewing your page and s/he doesn't have the taste to properly use your offerings. Please, for the love of God, assume we are adults.
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i have tendency to be overly verbose in such a way as to actively suck away any possible communication.
May I have your permission to use this as a sig?
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Please, for the love of God, assume we are adults.
this is sort of the opposite of what i'm getting on about.
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I love the comradery. No, really.
The comment about IE is for Mac users who ARE USING IE. And the comment will probably be removed by popular demand. Maybe a good replacement would be a link on the main page to a troubleshooting menu. Although I think I may be giving the idiot Mac user who is on IE too much of my time.
I think I've spent more time on here discussing my site than I have actually working on my site. But nonetheless what I love about the site is: that when the window is resized, the navbar and some other items dynamically move with the window. To the best of my experience this isn't an extremely common practice and it's a small joy to me. Also, I am just passionate about the open desolation. The internet these days is just too much filled with pages reeking of background images (http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=10292001) and text that flows across the entire window leaving the viewer with an overwhelmed sensation. I wanted to make something that gave the viewer (namely me) a place to rest their eyes.
Ok, I'm done. (Until my next bout of construction.) Done.
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The internet needs blank pages? When I want to rest my eyes I generally look away from the computer.
~Paul
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i have tendency to be overly verbose in such a way as to actively suck away any possible communication.
May I have your permission to use this as a sig?
ok.
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For a place that is intended for joy, I sense a lot of pent up hostility. Please don't be jealous, now. After all:
A computer should be a fun place to be!
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For a place that is intended for joy, I sense a lot of pent up hostility.
You were shaping up to be a pretty interesting dude until you got the brain parasites that made a picnic lunch of your Broca's Area and left you capable of only (a) making one- or two-word posts (b) talking about your fuck*ng website.
So that's disappointing.
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I am in Love with you, St_Zartan. IN LOVE.
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Mmmmm, Broca's Area....
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Andalucia said he has a "pretty website" (http://achewood.plagiarist.com/viewtopic.php?p=41013#41013) and he became emboldened. It's totally understandable.
~Paul
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I'm sorry! I didn't mean to!
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Please, for the love of God, assume we are adults.
this is sort of the opposite of what i'm getting on about.
I don't actually think we're working at cross purposes here; at least, I agree with you. To get long-winded about it:
You and I were talking about totally different phenomena. You were making reference to written instructions and how they should be explicit at all points, which I agree with; if you're going to write instructions, make them thorough, especially if they're instructions about "easy" things (like viewing and downloading a desktop, for example). What I was talking about was the tendency of the page to seem very patronizing ("open that window up real big"), which shows disrespect for your audience, IMHO. Being informed about how to do something, even something drop-dead easy, is different from being assumed to be clueless and treated like it.
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I don't actually think we're working at cross purposes here; at least, I agree with you. To get long-winded about it:
You and I were talking about totally different phenomena. You were making reference to written instructions and how they should be explicit at all points, which I agree with; if you're going to write instructions, make them thorough, especially if they're instructions about "easy" things (like viewing and downloading a desktop, for example). What I was talking about was the tendency of the page to seem very patronizing ("open that window up real big"), which shows disrespect for your audience, IMHO. Being informed about how to do something, even something drop-dead easy, is different from being assumed to be clueless and treated like it.
ok, that makes total sense.
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God, I have never wanted to start a joint company less in my life!
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Arkabee, now that you have explained what the context of "Right-click the desktop once the image has loaded. (I thought that was a given in 2005)" means I understand it perfectly and completely agree. I thought this was some arcane and bizarre thing involving the viewer's computer's desktop that had to be done on Windows machines lest the Internet tear their faces off or something. I have not used Windows computers in a long time so I do not know what behavior is taken for granted in 2005. You could probably convince me that every half-hour you have to load bacon into the 502 bacon port or it suddenly slows to a crawl. "I thought everyone knew to load bacon into their computer! No wonder you're performing poorly!"
Are there Mac users who use IE? I am pretty sure that is a small group to need warning. Macs do not ship with IE as their default browser and IE for Mac is pretty crappy. It feels like someone is Windows-ing on your Macintosh screen and the aesthetic effect is much like if a large section of the center of a mosh pit began to suddenly square dance and shout archaic cusswords at anyone who was not also square-dancing.
This was a pretty rambly post.
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Are there Mac users who use IE? I am pretty sure that is a small group to need warning. Macs do not ship with IE as their default browser and IE for Mac is pretty crappy. It feels like someone is Windows-ing on your Macintosh screen and the aesthetic effect is much like if a large section of the center of a mosh pit began to suddenly square dance and shout archaic cusswords at anyone who was not also square-dancing.
my parents use it, sometimes, as well as an old netscape and opera, because they have my old PowerComputing 120 running 7.6.