The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Wild Card => Topic started by: pmcd9 on February 18, 2006, 08:07:49 pm
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First mentioned here (http://touamb.com/index.php/topic,2538.msg56507.html#msg56507).
I haven't worked out all of the details, but this could be bigger than Elvis.
~Paul
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My roommate's sister is a film student, and one of her movies featured a joke porn called "Jesus fuck*ng Christ".
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Oh, yes, fuck me, Jesus.
Who's your Lord? Who's your Savior?
Oh, you are, Father, you are!
Yean, you like it on your knees praying, don't you sinner!
Yes, yes, bless me! Bless meeeeeeeeeee!
Genuflect when you say that, whore.
Then they do the Stations of the Cross, all Easter Stylez.
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See, from my Catholic school days, what always confused me was the amount of foot washing and foot imagery in the Bible. (http://podiatry.curtin.edu.au/bible.html#race) Was it a foot fetish thing? You could corner the market. Remember that story of Jesus letting Mary wash his feet with her tears and dry them with her hair. What was going on there? You tell me.
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Y'all have gotten it all wrong. Let me interject here because I didn't give much detail in my initial post. What I am talking about is breaking the stereotype of porn. Instead of Christian Porn, think of it like this Wholsesome Family Porn. What I mean is Porn that a Christian adult wouldn't feel uncomfortable watching. Because Christians are sexual creatures who need stimulation like everyone else. The charicterizations would be of wholesome family oriented people and the stories would involve doing things in a Christian manner that would also include having sex. It would be almost manditory that the actors be actually married in real life, but that's probably not such a big deal to overcome. I don't know how many good stories that fit this mold there are (maybe none), but lack of good stories never stopped romance or sci fi novels from being sold like hot cakes. Of course it would be condemed in some quarters, but if it were done sincerely it would be accepted by the Christian masses. It's an idea whose time has come.
~Paul
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Footwashing is pretty easy to explain when you remember that in the sandy, dusty holy land, everyone walked everywhere and wore sandals. You'd want those feet washed to if they were going to come into your house. Hell, that still more-or-less exists here in Hawaii. Every beachside house has a little foot-pedal spigot by the door.
The story of Jesus washing his disciples feet (http://www.antelope-ebooks.com/RELIGIOUS/passover.html) speaks to humility and the anointing of Jesus' feet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_sister_of_Lazarus) is a story of surrender to the lord and sevitude in humility.
In my Lutheran church, the Pastor ritually washes the feet of the church Council on Maundy Thursday. This is a specific practice of this Pastor; I'd not seen it in other churches I've attended.
And Paul -you got it right in that it's not 'what happens' in porn that goes against farily widely held Christian beliefs. If you read Song of Solomon in the Bible, you'll find a lot of allusion and even explicit reference to physical lovemaking between adults. God celebrates love and physical love and the pleasure we get from it is a gift. But of course, there are caveats for Christians who give it thought: that it's meant to be enjoyed in the context of marriage; that sex separated from love and commitment is not what God intended. At least, that's what many people discussing porn in the context of Christianiaty would tell you. In order to make it 'wholesome' in a Christian sense, it would celebrate marriage, commitment and everything that comes with it and the performers would be married as well. I don't think that's marketable to the vast majority of porn users or most Christians.
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I don't think that's marketable to the vast majority of porn users or most Christians.
You say that like those are two different demographics.
~Paul
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I think the problem is that while you could make a porn movie that christians would not mind watching you have to remember that the purpose of porn is still a big no no in many christian (and other religious communities).
Even if it was just something to get you in the mood before you go at it with your loving wedded spouse, there'd probably be some coveting going on there.
But let's assume we have a market. Would you spend a lot of time emphasising the christians values exhibited by these people or would you just treat them as a given and give vague indications?
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You say that like those are two different demographics.
~Paul
Now you're just baiting me.
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Oh yeah, because none of the 4 Billion Dollars spent annually on the porn industry is coming from the wallets of Christians...
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Now you're just baiting me.
Optionally, at this point a joke regarding mastery and porn consumership may be utilized.
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Don't know if there is some kind of ban on The Onion here, but, oh well.
Christain Porn climaxes with birth of child. http://www.theonion.com/content/node/44876 (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/44876)
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Now you're just baiting me.
Actually I was just going for laughs, but I don't think those two demographics are mutually exclusive. Not by a long shot.
~Paul
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See, I think this could work, especially if we're expanding "Christian" to mean "generally wholesome and focused on a committed, loving relationship." I mean, I'm hells of agnostic, and I'd still love to see more porn focused on loving relationships. (I think this sort of angle would even make the bizarro pon-stereotype sex a little easier to buy; for example, I'm not actually interested in watching analingus in any case, but if we have to have analingus, it makes a little more sense within the context of a committed and loving relationship than between perfect strangers. I mean, honestly.) I know there's a cottage industry of "real couples" porn; this sounds like it could be the same thing, except with a little more material about the non-sex relationship. It could work.
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Actually I was just going for laughs, but I don't think those two demographics are mutually exclusive. Not by a long shot.
~Paul
I don't think they are either; however if a person were focused on building, perfecting and nurturing his relationship with God and his wife, there would be no reason for ponography. Pornography exists due to base human nature combined with original sin, which is are good things to work toward overcoming.
But we are none of us perfect - admitting that is the first step and working toward better relationships with the rest of humanity is second.
If porn were that harmless to you, it should bother you not one bit to see your parents, or friends, or sisters, or children involved in it. But to most people, that isn't the case. Not because of the activities but because of the complete and utter divorcement from intimacy that porn really creates.
There's a reason God gave humans both the capacity to love and to commit to love as well as to enjoy physical lovemaking and I truly believe that these were meant to be enjoyed together. Pornography attempts to make one independent from the others and I don't believe that was the intention of the Creator.
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If porn were that harmless to you, it should bother you not one bit to see your parents, or friends, or sisters, or children involved in it. But to most people, that isn't the case. Not because of the activities but because of the complete and utter divorcement from intimacy that porn really creates.
Well, uh... maybe this is because, as previously established, I'm a godless Commie, but it wouldn't bother me particularly presuming that the friend/loved one involved was otherwise content. I would be upset if they were in a bad situation because of porn, but I'd be upset if they were in a bad situation because of any other occupation, too. If they were happy and not otherwise in a non-life-affirming situation, what's the problem?
I'll freely agree that the modern American pornographic-movie industry is not generally life-affirming and overall pretty screwed up. However, I don't think this necessarily implies that porn as a medium is intrinsically flawed. I think to some degree or another it's instinctual: given that sex is pleasurable for most people, watching/looking at/listening to/reading about people having sex is probably also going to be a vicarious pleasure for most people. What's wrong with that? Hell, I'd argue that in some ways porn allows a safe outlet for urges that might otherwise be expressed poorly elsewhere -- by, say, getting into a meaningless and emotionally painful sexual relationship or forcing your current relationship into sexual places your partner doesn't want to go to. Certainly there are people who have problems with pornography, but I don't think it's any more intrinsically sinful than any other depiction of human behavior.
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I wouldn't want to see my parents, or friends, or sisters, or children involved in waste management. But mainly because then I'd have to smell them.
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Well, uh... maybe this is because, as previously established, I'm a godless Commie, but it wouldn't bother me particularly presuming that the friend/loved one involved was otherwise content. I would be upset if they were in a bad situation because of porn, but I'd be upset if they were in a bad situation because of any other occupation, too. If they were happy and not otherwise in a non-life-affirming situation, what's the problem?
I'll freely agree that the modern American pornographic-movie industry is not generally life-affirming and overall pretty screwed up. However, I don't think this necessarily implies that porn as a medium is intrinsically flawed. I think to some degree or another it's instinctual: given that sex is pleasurable for most people, watching/looking at/listening to/reading about people having sex is probably also going to be a vicarious pleasure for most people. What's wrong with that? Hell, I'd argue that in some ways porn allows a safe outlet for urges that might otherwise be expressed poorly elsewhere -- by, say, getting into a meaningless and emotionally painful sexual relationship or forcing your current relationship into sexual places your partner doesn't want to go to. Certainly there are people who have problems with pornography, but I don't think it's any more intrinsically sinful than any other depiction of human behavior.
Here's the difference I think: Christians acknowledge that the world and humanity is deeply flawed due to original sin and the affordance of evil in the world through the devices of Satan. There are a lot of symptoms of this. I mean, if your family members were drug addicts but doing OK and were themselves fine with it, or rational yet suicidal that would be OK too, assuming the same logic (and possiblly, OK with you as well - I'm not speaking for you here).
Most thinking Christians I know try to understand the world and our place in it, understanding that God gave us reason, the ability to love, free will, and the ability to make choices. We acknowledge the presence of evil and sin and try to place ourselves closer to God through avoiding opportunities to go against our understanding of God's desires for us, prayer, and taking our sincere faith and beliefs to others in the context of sharing God's love to the world in (best case) a non-judgmental way. The problem is that Christians are part of the flawed world and are themselves flawed, so of course it's not perfect.
The need for pornography is (in my and many others opinion) a symptom of the much bigger issue. The world today is far too attuned to empty escapism. My friend Mark refers to it as a "God-shaped hole". People try to fill that hole with whatever they can find. Addiction, sex, bad relationships, pornography, behaviors - even education, hyper rationalism, or art - (positive things as well as negative things) lots of people out there are searching for something and for many, a real faith in God and hope for life and the world really gives them the clarity to get away from the bad stuff they are into.
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Dawg i'm not going to try to go toe to toe with you because you are much more eloquent than I and you know your subject matter too well. But c'mon, i'm trying to start a Christian Porn business here, you're really spoiling all the fun.
How's this for a plotline. Replace the pizza boy with an Elder. He is greeted at the door by a beautiful but unsaved young lady. He tells her the good word about LDS. Then we have a montage scene of them falling in love, her becoming a mormon and then them being married. End montage. Next scene is the happy couple on their honeymoon where they comence to fuckin'. Final scene, shows them holding their newborn baby showing it to their friends. It's like an instructional video on how you should live your life.
~Paul
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How's this for a plotline. Replace the pizza boy with an Elder....
~Paul
Now you're gonna open the debate about whether LDS are Christians. Some folks would fight you hard on that one. On the other hand, if you have not seen 'Orgazmo' I highly recommend it. It, at least, combines LDS and Porn in a pretty funny way.
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On the other hand, if you have not seen 'Orgazmo' I highly recommend it. It, at least, combines LDS and Porn in a pretty funny way.
People, this is why you have to love AlohaDawg.
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Dawg i'm not going to try to go toe to toe with you because you are much more eloquent than I and you know your subject matter too well. But c'mon, i'm trying to start a Christian Porn business here, you're really spoiling all the fun.
How's this for a plotline. Replace the pizza boy with an Elder. He is greeted at the door by a beautiful but unsaved young lady. He tells her the good word about LDS. Then we have a montage scene of them falling in love, her becoming a mormon and then them being married. End montage. Next scene is the happy couple on their honeymoon where they comence to fuckin'. Final scene, shows them holding their newborn baby showing it to their friends. It's like an instructional video on how you should live your life.
They couldn't have a kid on the first try. Then the movie would be like 20 minutes long. They need to try several times before they realize it'll never work if she doesn't stop swallowing and that inviting 12 of the husband's closest friends to join in isn't really helping matters.
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They couldn't have a kid on the first try. Then the movie would be like 20 minutes long.
You sure? I had figured the sex scene would be strictly missionary, and last maybe 30 seconds.
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Dawg i'm not going to try to go toe to toe with you because you are much more eloquent than I and you know your subject matter too well. But c'mon, i'm trying to start a Christian Porn business here, you're really spoiling all the fun.
Here's your anti-porn, Paul. I think you'll like it. (http://www.jcsgirls.com/).
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Oh, that's just fantastic. It reminds me of Christian heavy metal, what with the whole 'we only do this to appeal to others about Jesus and show them Christianity is anything but restricting!' gig. And isn't calling themselves JC's girls blasphemous somehow? And does Christian heavy metal even exist?
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Oh, that's just fantastic. It reminds me of Christian heavy metal, what with the whole 'we only do this to appeal to others about Jesus and show them Christianity is anything but restricting!' gig. And isn't calling themselves JC's girls blasphemous somehow? And does Christian heavy metal even exist?
christian metal isn't NEARLY as funny as christian DEATH metal.
"Killing for jesus! Kill for jesus! LetalloftheblasphemersDIIIIiiiie!"
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Oh, that's just fantastic. It reminds me of Christian heavy metal, what with the whole 'we only do this to appeal to others about Jesus and show them Christianity is anything but restricting!' gig.
1) And isn't calling themselves JC's girls blasphemous somehow?
2) And does Christian heavy metal even exist?
1) No. Why?
2) probably. And it might suck. I'm pretty sure I would hate it. But you put your message out in every language and medium. Someone will hear it.
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Just so that I can agree with 'Dawg on something:
Orgazmo is a lovely movie. It's both extremely raunchy and, somehow, one of the most respectful depictions of the Mormons I've ever seen on film outside of an LDS commercial. It really showcases that comedic talent that the South Park guys can really bring to bear occasionally -- extreme, and yet somehow not disgusting or offensive, just funny. Great, great movie.
(Also, it involves Trey Parker hitting on Matt Stone, or possibly the other way around.)
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(Also, it involves Trey Parker hitting on Matt Stone, or possibly the other way around.)
...but I think unicorns are KICK ASS!
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I guess we own Orgazmo, but I haven't seen it yet.
Someone once told me that there is a sub-genre of gay porn based entirely on mormon missionaries. In fact, it was a close friend who told me this. His gay friend told him about it shortly before my friend went on a mormon mission.
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Here's your anti-porn, Paul. I think you'll like it. (http://www.jcsgirls.com/).
That site did NOT make me want to give up porn.
~Paul
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I didn't say it would make you want to give up porn. I just said I thought you would like it.
I think all three of those ladies are pretty darn hot. And they know it, too. I found the concept very interesting.
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Eww. AD! None of these girls are hot to me. I've never found stripper/porno girls attractive though, and they look just like porno girls, even if their not anymore. Especially not the one with the fake'n'bake orange tan - bleh. (Also, I was totally joking about the foot fetish thing, I went to Catholic school for 8 years remember? Church 6 days a week for 8 years...)
Also, a link from the JC girls site is http://www.xxxchurch.com (http://www.xxxchurch.com). I actually enjoy the save the kittens video. [/ulr]I ain't gonna stop masterbating because of it, but.. it's cute. Also, Paul, check out their merchandise - they have a Christian Porn t-shirt.
Also, check out this site: [url=http://www.sexinchrist.com/pornography.html]http://www.sexinchrist.com/pornography.html (http://www.xxxchurch.com/pornpatrol/kittens.asp) - they've created Framework for Christian Porn
Here is an interview with a Christian Porn Star. (http://www.opiummagazine.com/interviewdouglaschristian.html) He doesn't reveal his name, but if Paul can track him down...
Finally, here is the blog of a girl who apparently makes Christian Porn with her boyfriend. The first guy who comments says he got one of her pornos from "under the counter" at a Christian store. I have no idea of this is a joke or not, but I love the idea of someone going to a Christian store and asking the person behind the counter for porno. Whether or not it's actually there, either way, will lead to hilarity. (http://pornoforchrist.blogspot.com/2004/09/christian-porn.html)
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Eww. AD! None of these girls are hot to me. I've never found stripper/porno girls attractive though, and they look just like porno girls, even if their not anymore. Especially not the one with the fake'n'bake orange tan - bleh. (Also, I was totally joking about the foot fetish thing, I went to Catholic school for 8 years remember? Church 6 days a week for 8 years...)
Also, a link from the JC girls site is http://www.xxxchurch.com (http://www.xxxchurch.com). I actually enjoy the save the kittens video. [/ulr]I ain't gonna stop masterbating because of it, but.. it's cute. Also, Paul, check out their merchandise - they have a Christian Porn t-shirt.
Also, check out this site: [url=http://www.sexinchrist.com/pornography.html]http://www.sexinchrist.com/pornography.html (http://www.xxxchurch.com/pornpatrol/kittens.asp) - they've created Framework for Christian Porn
Here is an interview with a Christian Porn Star. (http://www.opiummagazine.com/interviewdouglaschristian.html) He doesn't reveal his name, but if Paul can track him down...
Finally, here is the blog of a girl who apparently makes Christian Porn with her boyfriend. The first guy who comments says he got one of her pornos from "under the counter" at a Christian store. I have no idea of this is a joke or not, but I love the idea of someone going to a Christian store and asking the person behind the counter for porno. Whether or not it's actually there, either way, will lead to hilarity.
(http://pornoforchrist.blogspot.com/2004/09/christian-porn.html)
good gravy smells.. it's things like this that make me love you to squishy death. You know like when you want to hug something till it pops? I don't mean this in a creepy way mind you, just in an awesome I'm going to can-can you to death way.
Okay, there's no way to say that uncreepily... so.. um.. thanks. That's all.
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Thanks Mr.Q - I really can't wait for Paul to see this stuff - it's like there's actually the idea out there, just below the surface, waiting to explode, and now it is Paul's duty - nay - life's mission, to bring it to the forefront.
And I also understand your squishing desire. One of our cats is so cute that I just want to squeeze her. She is tiny - under five pounds full grown - and when you give her a hug, she makes this horrified crying mew that almost sounds like "nooooooo!" which is really just incentive to squeeze her all the more.
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And I also understand your squishing desire. One of our cats is so cute that I just want to squeeze her. She is tiny - under five pounds full grown - and when you give her a hug, she makes this horrified crying mew that almost sounds like "nooooooo!" which is really just incentive to squeeze her all the more.
Two things:
1) "And I also understand your squishing desire" is a fabulous sentence, both in context and out of it.
2) You'd figure cats would learn eventually that making adorable tiny noises when squeezed does not actually dissuade humans from squeezing -- quite the opposite, really...