The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Sports & Leisure => Topic started by: Drygioni on May 19, 2006, 08:41:25 pm
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The thought of hanging on every kick of a match, eating Pringles and singing teary anthems along with a pub audience is getting me tingly already.
Do you fine fellows from around the world (North America and maybe Australia a little bit) follow this greatest of competitions? All talk of speculation goes here, and it can be revived when the actual thing comes round.
Or you could just treat this as a football thread. That will keep it alive. (Or not.)
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Do you fine fellows from around the world (North America and maybe Australia a little bit) follow this greatest of competitions?
No.
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I try to follow it, but it's never on American TV. Soccer/Football is one of the only sports that I enjoy watching, so it cheeses me off that we here have a tendency to completely ignore it.
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The strange thing about the US is that there is apparently a rule that all suburban children must belong to a soccer league. From the size of the children I have observed in the local parks, I would guess that the rule kicks in as soon as they learn to walk.
But that's it. It is a sport entirely for children here.
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I have friends in adult leagues both here and in Chicago.
My friend in Chicago is 38 and played semi-professionally in the US - now he coaches and runs camps, as well as plays in highly physical and competetive leagues featuring lots of people from Europe and Mexico / South America. He's pretty tough.
It's a good sport in that you can get lots of participation for not-too-great expense, and the skills to just play and have fun are fairly easy - running and kicking. It also keeps kids at a higher activity level for longer time on average then baseball or even football. I'll be coaching 7 year olds in AYSO this fall. I think if you can get hundreds of kids out to exercise, that's a good thing.
All that said, I prefer baseball or football to watch and baseball to play. But the rest of the world loves their soccer. If you want to watch it on TV, invest in digital cable. There is ALWAYS soccer on somewhere. I can watch European soccer matches almost any day of the week with my cable carrier. Too bad I don't really have a team. I like the name Arsenal though.
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my knowledge of Football is this:
one time in Belgium, when we were eating at this wierd little greek place, a drunken belgian came up and started trying to get us to be more into it.
he just kept repeating "(whatever the country was)!", with occaisional "bastards! bastard son of bitch!" when the refs made a call against that team.
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To that dude's credit, the refs really are bastard sons of bitch.
I don't watch football, but whenever anyone asks me what my favourite (american) football team is, my stock answer is "Manchester United." This apparently incites people to confusion or violence.
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I do not follow it, but I have a friend here who came from northern England. He was once telling me how he was slightly knackered from thinkg too much his team's (Portsmouth) penultimate footie game. Apparently they were trying to avoid relegation. They managed the great escape and stayed up at the expense of Birmingham and West Brom.
I figure this is fair, because once I explained my thesis to him.
Though to be fair, I caught a bit of some games on while I was in Europe. It is pretty fast-paced and exciting, moreso than American Football, but I still think it's funny that even the yoga instructors are totally into it.
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Ok, I slightly exagerrate the lack of adult participation in soccer, but really, am I the only one who finds it odd that your most prominent mental association with European soccer is rioting drunken hooligans while your primary image of soccer in the US is a nice wholesome form of exercise to burn off the extra energy of small children?
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I never watched nor played football/soccer until 2002. It was summer, I was a senior in college, I was only taking one class, and consequently I was up all night. What, to my wondering eyes, was on tv but the coolest thing ever! I watched nearly every game, and all in the middle of the night! I got up at 5 am to watch special matches! I chatted with my Irish coworker about how awesome it was that they nearly tied the Italians and then lost it in the free kicks at the end. I explained the offsides rules to people who obviously didn't give a shit. I knittied a really wide and 10 foot long scarf while I did it. It was awesome. I've been waiting for this summer ever since.
Unfortunately, I'm tv-less at the moment. Luckily, the Brewhouse Cafe is just down the street from me, and they broadcast all the games! If you need me in June or July, you'll know where to look. I think I'll knit another scarf.
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To that dude's credit, the refs really are bastard sons of bitch.
I don't watch football, but whenever anyone asks me what my favourite (american) football team is, my stock answer is "Manchester United." This apparently incites people to confusion or violence.
What the hell is a "united" anyway? DC United has been around for some time and best I can figure a united is vaguely frightening looking eagle.
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I always assumed that DC or Manchester United was the opposite of, like, Manchester Broken-up-into-little-pieces, which is what you get after the drunken hooligans have their riots.
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maybe it's Manchester United, as opposed to maybe South Manchester, or North Manchester? I guess the mancunians got it together to be "united" is what they're saying there.
yeah I had to show off. It took me so long to figure out that "Mancunian" is like "Manchester-ite."
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maybe it's Manchester United, as opposed to maybe South Manchester, or North Manchester? I guess the mancunians got it together to be "united" is what they're saying there.
yeah I had to show off. It took me so long to figure out that "Mancunian" is like "Manchester-ite."
It really means nothing. When you get two teams in an area, they can't be both called the same thing. So we have a Manchester City and Manchester United. Bristol Rovers and Bristol City. Liverpool and Everton. They might have stadiums within a mile or two of each other, but they go by different names so people living in the same area are incited to beat each other up.
It's like your equivalent of the Miami Dolphins and such. It just makes the name a slight more interesting, and also differentiates between teams in a same area, basically.
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I never cared much about football/soccer, unlike the other 99% of the people who happen to live in my country. But it's hard to remain indifferent during World Cups, since everytime the Brazilian team plays it's basically a national holiday around here. Fine by me...
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There are exactly two things which turn me into a frothing, flag-waving American crazy person: Olympic hockey, and World Cup soccer.
I watched the US-Germany quarterfinal match last time 'round on the Jumbo Tron at RFK Stadium with a couple thousand other idiots at like 6 AM. I don't know if I'll go to such extremes this time, and I certainly won't watch every single match, but I'll do what I can.
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Since the World Cup is legitimately a world title I approve of its continued existence. Baseball however can suck it.
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I don't really follow the World Cup, but if I happen to be somewhere with a game on, I do like to watch it.
A little under two years ago, was driving home one day, and stopped at an intersection, when suddenly I was surrounded by drunken Portuguese men who were filling the streets: waving flags, jumping up and down and motioning insistently for me to honk my horn. I obliged, and suddenly I was surrounded by even more Portuguese men, and all four directions of the intersection were unable to move. Then a guy with a flag came to my car, and started slowly leading my car down the road as he waved a flag, andthen I was someone in a parade down the street. Drunken fans were trying to get into my car, but the guy with the flag who was "escorting" my car waved them away. I suppose, I look like I could be Portuguese, and I was laughing pretty hard. It took me about 45 minutes to make what should have been a 10 minute drive, but it was sort of sweet to see all these men who were so happy about their team winning. Until that point I had no idea that we had a Little Portugal here, and now whenever I drive through that intersection I think of that time.
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This sounds like something that might happen only in the movies. Very Mr. Beanesque i'm thinking.
~Paul
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I don't really follow the World Cup, but if I happen to be somewhere with a game on, I do like to watch it.
A little under two years ago, was driving home one day, and stopped at an intersection, when suddenly I was surrounded by drunken Portuguese men who were filling the streets: waving flags, jumping up and down and motioning insistently for me to honk my horn. I obliged, and suddenly I was surrounded by even more Portuguese men, and all four directions of the intersection were unable to move. Then a guy with a flag came to my car, and started slowly leading my car down the road as he waved a flag, andthen I was someone in a parade down the street. Drunken fans were trying to get into my car, but the guy with the flag who was "escorting" my car waved them away. I suppose, I look like I could be Portuguese, and I was laughing pretty hard. It took me about 45 minutes to make what should have been a 10 minute drive, but it was sort of sweet to see all these men who were so happy about their team winning. Until that point I had no idea that we had a Little Portugal here, and now whenever I drive through that intersection I think of that time.
This is really what the World Cup is about. Going completely over-the-top because some guys representing you put a ball in some net thousands of miles away. It's so beautiful.
Maybe only children play football in America 'cause only other countries keep the 'football' gene their entire lives, while you have genes that mutate into a 'baseball' or 'golf' or 'American Football' gene. Either way, most people have at least one element in them that can cause them to cry and scream at a TV when something happens to a ball.
Sidenote: You guys call it Soccer because at Oxbridge they had a habit of shortening words and putting an '-er' on the end: Brekker (Breakfast) and Rugger (Rugby) for example. Association Football become known as Soccer (thank god it wasn't 'footer') and as these guys dominated the sport for years, it stuck in quite a few places.
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I read a pretty good article once about how Football (non-american) just isn't an American game. And it went on to explain exactly what elements of football made it so uninteresting to most americans. I do not understand sports, so I don't really remember what exactly it said. I will attempt to find the book.
I think one part of it was the ability to not look like a "loser". He said something like "I watched a bunch of kids play soccer once. It seemed like they were all doing really well-- chasing the ball all over, staying on their sides, etc. And then I realized that about half the kids never even touched the ball. And that in soccer, this was Acceptable."
I can attest from my suburban-soccer-playing years that this is true. I touched the ball maybe twice, ever.
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To expand on my earlier curt (perhaps rude) answer, I love soccer. I played in High School, college and law school. I played indoor and outdoor, and once a summer these days I play in my High School's alumni game. I'm big and slow and I'm a fullback. I'm hard to get past. I love to play soccer.
But I cannot stand watching it.
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To expand on my earlier curt (perhaps rude) answer, I love soccer. I played in High School, college and law school. I played indoor and outdoor, and once a summer these days I play in my High School's alumni game. I'm big and slow and I'm a fullback. I'm hard to get past. I love to play soccer.
But I cannot stand watching it.
Woo, fullback! I played left fullback in field hockey, and that was my default position in football/soccer matches in gym class. I am neither big nor slow, but defence is just plain fun.
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I was a goalkeeper. You have to be crazy or stupid, preferably both.
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You're most likely all long past caring, but like the lone operator of a forgotten funfair I continue to beg for your attention and hope beyoned hope you become interested in something that will seem pointless to you. I then cry as you shun my efforts. Moving on:
Seeding placements
Most of you: You are Seed 9 in the World Cup! Well done. You did very well last time, and your dear leader even called the American team. I will be supporting them in matches because you guys are pretty awesome.
Doc: Australia are seeded 28. I'm as shocked as you.
Roger: I am sorry you do not enjoy football, but your team is predictably Number 1. Have fun with the unofficial national holidays.
England are seeded 2, which is complete bollocks. We hardly deserve to be in the top 10 at all, I think they just put us that high as a joke to make all of England cry salty tears into their lager as Germany beat us AGAIN.
Pestering over. Have a lovely day!
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Most of you: You are Seed 9 in the World Cup! Well done. You did very well last time, and your dear leader even called the American team. I will be supporting them in matches because you guys are pretty awesome.
Yeah, but that seeding is kind of a joke, considering that so much of our world rank comes from our success in our region, which includes precisely two fairly decent teams. Easy to pile up a gaudy record when you're whoopin' up on the likes of Trinadad & Tobago or St. Vincent & the Grenadines.
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St. Vincent & the Grenadines.
They let lounge bands play in the World Cup?
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They let lounge bands play in the World Cup?
*rimshot*
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It is a sport entirely for children here.
Well... I mean, that makes total sense.
Maybe the most fun game in the world to actually be playing and maybe the most boring sport in the world to be watching, in my opinion, it makes perfect sense that the only people interested in it are the people playing it and the people who are forced to show up with them because they're kids.
Pong can be fun to play, too, but man is it dull to watch, you know?
Back... bounce bounce... forth... bounce bounce... back... bounce bounce... forth.
Americans ultimately need sports with lots of intermediate statistics because we're stat-heads and we love measuring up performances against each other. At the end of the day, the only significant stats in soccer are... shots on goal and goals made. Did the player kick the ball in or not, did the goalie block the ball going in or not? Everything else is just, like, people kicking a ball around.
Football has yards and attempts and passes and all sorts of neat stats between scoring and not-scoring that you can crunch and weigh and debate. Baseball's got hits and extra base hits and walks and strikeouts and averages and ERA and onbasepercentages and all sorts of other things to yammer about. Basketball, not so much, but there's so much scoring to be done that we can make other stats from it.
But soccer and hockey, the two sports that keep trying to woo America and never pull it off... you got shots made, shots missed and MAYBE assists and... that's it. America wants numbers, America wants mile-markers, America wants two pages of numbers explaining the gradual steps between victory and defeat so that we can pick them apart and discern the patterns.
If you give us "Yeah, they tried ten times to score, one guy did, the other guys tried fifteen times, two did... and the rest of it, dudes were kinda kicking something around for a while" we're gonna glaze over. I don't know what this says about American psychology, but there we are.
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This person knows their stuff
I don't know if you stole that from somewhere, but it is nonetheless an excellent theory and well presented. It would also explain why Britain prefers rugby and football to your crazy games. In England, you have sports to get needlessly emotional over with your mates. In America, you also have sports to get needlessly emotional over with your buddies.
I think the difference is why people get emotional. In England, it's generally pride; rarely if ever are a teams or players statistics used as a way of getting one up on a Liverpool supporter. There is no one way to prove a team was better than the other in an individual match, because of the very low amount of conclusive stats you can use. In America, you have all these in-depth stats anyone can use to prove 'we were on average better than you in that match', and the other person has no comeback.
Another huge difference is the value of goals/hits/touchdowns. In football, a game with no goals scored is a very common scenario. One flukey goal can give the poorer team the win; therefore, because your team scored more goals doesn't mean you were 'better', as there are just too few goals scored and it's not a real representation of the team's skill. In American Football so many touchdowns are scored that the real nature of the team's abilities is more apparent. If the score is 2-1 in a football match and 60-45 (whatever) in American football, you can see what I mean.
I still stand by the fact that football is NOT boring to watch. Now, as for baseball..
Also: Cricket is the exception to this England-like-simple-sports rule: I don't get cricket. But in Britain people generally fall between either cricket supporting or football supporting, so yet again different mindsets.
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So then! Who's been watching?
The only match I've fully watched is of course England vs. Paraguay. Although we won, we weren't very sharp. As befitting British character, the nation has fallen into the same state of gloom that would have occured from a loss. 1-0 just ain't enough when your national team has been hyped beyond reason.
Some early upsets: Poland losing 2-0 to Ecuador, and unfortunately your own Soccer team losing 3-0 to the Czech Republic. By the strange rules of football, this will most likely result in you boys winning the whole damn thing.
I'm really beating a dead hoss with a stick here, but I urge all you football fans to share your thoughts.
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Haven't watched any matches, but followed USA-CZE online today. Sounds like the Americans played like ass--some ball control, but no real scoring chances.
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I saw the rebroadcast of the serbia-netherlands game last night, and part of the iran-mexico game. The "World Cup Headquarters" pub down the street unfortunately doesn't have the sound up very loud for their repeats in the evening, and the commentary was all auf Deutsch anyway, so it was a little disappointing. I was going to catch the rerun of the US game tonight, but it sounds like it's just not worth it.
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AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE!
OI OI OI!
Woo, that was such an awesome game.
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I have watched the late games sat, sun and today. I really haven't gotten into it because of class and horrible wine hangovers, but I am a normal football watcher. I support Liverpool, FYI. Todays Itsly Guana game was pretty good, I thought Guana may have some type of shot, same with Argentina and whoever they played (wine hangover).
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I support Liverpool, FYI.
English ex-patriate? How do you get to watch their games over there?
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My freshman year of college my best friend was an exchange student from England. He was a Liverpool supporter and one of the national sports networks shows games at like 4 a.m. Friday night-Saturday morning. We would be drunk and like 50 % of the time Liverpool games were on. Plus, back then they had Owen, Gerrard and Hesky, all classic players. Also, they had that French defender with the weird name (hippia? that is not right but close). Anyways, the next year I got cable that had a channel on it called Fox Soccer Net, which will play most EPL games and the occasional Spanish or Italian league game. That was 2 years ago when Liverpool won the Champions league (that is what it is called, right?). This year I quit cable because I only watched like a couple soccer games and HBO, so I kind of quit watching it, which is why I am not that into the world cup. Plus, I have to watch it on one of the local Spanish language channels, but that actually makes it cooler. Anyways, I still kind of follow Liverpool (in other words, I know they won the FA Cup).
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Awesome story, Keith. I hope you saw the FA Cup final. Gerrard PUNISHED.
Also, they had that French defender with the weird name (hippia? that is not right but close).
I think you're referring to that awesome Swede Mr Hyppia. True story: He collected Pokemon cards.
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Yea, thats the guy. That is really sweet that he collected Pokemon cards. It is stuff around the game that is just bizzare that makes your football better. Well, the way I see it, (real-(world)) Football and baseball are very similar. Both rely on tradition and players more than lame marketing plans and quick, relatively lame action. They each have like something that you have to get really into to enjoy, not just watch people hit each other hard. I think that is why I like both sports so much. It is like good music, a secret little club that not everybody can enjoy.
Hyppia is still with Liverpool, right?
Also, Judy, you may want to check out Deadspin.com for american coverage. Maybe you could give your perspective on it or something. It is pretty funny and they are live blogging the whole thing. Anyone who cares at all about u.s. sports (not national teams, just sports coverage) and funny shit should like this place.
For instance, this: http://www.deadspin.com/sports/soccer/smoke-em-if-you-got-em-180264.php
not to push the issue, but another classic: http://www.deadspin.com/sports/soccer/hey-we-can-all-agree-to-hate-soccer-together-180421.php
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You can get most of the big European leagues on various satellite channels. Hardcore fans will often hang out at "soccer bars" to watch the matches. I was in a DC United fan club for some years, and a lot of people hung out at a bar in Arlington that ran English Premier League, Spain, probably Germany and Italy too.
Schalke 04! w00t!
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12675510/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12675510/) (Found from Keith's Deadspin.com links - Thanks!)
Creepily iconic ignorance of the rest of the world? Or just plain odd? It's fuck*ng football! The most popular sport on Earth!
[/crazed moronic semi-rant]
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I vote for "Creepily iconic ignorance of the rest of the world." Reports are that Bush is one of the most non-intellectually curious guys you'll ever meet. He knows what he knows and could give a shit about learning much new.
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I vote for "Creepily iconic ignorance of the rest of the world." Reports are that Bush is one of the most non-intellectually curious guys you'll ever meet. He knows what he knows and could give a shit about learning much new.
I don't know, it certainly looked like he was concentrating on that football pretty hard. Very hard, you might say.
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Their is a group of people (probably 10) in my town who really love Spanish football. I know a couple of them and they get the satelite thing or like a ppv deal. This is surprisig because I live in Oklahoma. Also, from the link that Judy found from the link I found I found this:
Security staff confiscated 823 flares from spectators before Tuesday night's match and stopped three fans trying to get onto the field. But it was the two flares and one man that slipped through the security net that attracted all the attention.
Jesus I wish I lived in Europe.
Edit: despite the fact I know a little German and may live there some day: GO POLAND!
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Despite my go poland request that was an amazing game. I was going to say it was one of the most exciting nil nil games I have ever seen, then that great goal during stoppage time. I just wanted Poland to get some revenge for sep 1 1939, but you know, whatever.
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Yeah, that was a pretty awesome match. I thought Germany would go home disappointed after those two MAJORLY unlucky hits on the crossbar, but that last goal was deserved. Poland were pretty solid but Germany look a really decent team this year. If there is an England vs. Germany match prepare for something awesome.
Also: there is nothing more beautiful than watching 10,000 grown German men in their country's colours jumping up and down with sheer tearful joy. The stands just explode!
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Also: there is nothing more beautiful than watching 10,000 grown German men in their country's colours jumping up and down with sheer tearful joy. The stands just explode!
Beautiful, my friend, beautiful. Those German flags everywhere was awesome. Almost as awesome as the near 1,000 confiscated flares at the Brazil-Croatia game yesterday.
I am watching the Spain-Ukraine match replay. 2-0 in the 17th minute.
I bought the most bad ass Spain EUFA warm up jacket a couple years ago, but then found out they are horrible racists. Whatever, I don't support that but it is a fuck*ng killer jacket.
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I'm here to pester you all again, I'm afraid. I'm not sure how many of you are still following this after the USA's unfortunate exit, and it's not like there were many of you to start with; nonetheless, like an unswattable fly I will continue to bug you all.
England are slowly edging through. It says a lot about the English media when our national football team has won 3, drawn 1 and lost none out of 4 games and yet you'll find countless articles saying how crap our team is. I think we might do it with a bit of luck.
I was very sad to see the Australians go out, especially to the opportunistic diving many European teams are so fond of. Italy might have won (barely) but the Australians had more pluck than the rest of the teams left combined. Speaking of European tactics, Portugal did not deserve to go through after that awful game. Diving was present left, right and centre and Holland weren't much better. It might not have been so bad if it weren't for the referees, which leads me neatly to my next point.*
The standard of refereeing in this tournament has been shocking. Never before have I seen such fussy, officious yet somehow completely random decisions dished out. It really is making the tournament hella less enjoyable. You can't get caught up in the atmosphere of a game when a referee gives a player three yellow cards before sending him off.**
Also, the linesmen are calling off-sides without any kind of judgement. See, the standard of refereeing is causing pathetic blokes such as myself to complain about the tournament when I should be enjoying it! See how bad it is?
*After reading this through, I realise how much I sound like Pat. Oh dear.
**In football, a yellow card shown to player is a warning of sorts, and a red card shown means the player must leave the pitch. Two yellow cards in the same match means a player should be shown a red along with their second yellow. Basically:
1 Yellow = Warning
2 Yellow = Send off
1 Red = Send off (A red can be shown without any preceding yellow, if the player's conduct is that bad.)
However, in one match the referee gave a player his second yellow and forgot to send him off, which is pretty much unprecedented. It can call a whole match into doubt if a player is still on when he should be off.
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That was in the Croatia Australia match as well, which was hell of important for both teams.
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I have to preface this by saying that I have not watched any world cup games live. I do, however, watch a great deal of sporting highlights and commentary, so some Important Events of the world cup have managed to work through my reality filter.
Observation one: The US team made defenses look good and goalkeepers look bored. Four shots in three games is not a way to win in a tournament. In fact it is a good way to lose! We did not seem to have a plan to attack, and our best play came with a man down (when I think the players were not relying on their coach so much as their own instincts).
Observation two: The US team does not get the "friendly whistle" when playing in international competition. I can understand this, and I do not think it should have affected us the way it did -- good athletes are able to observe how a game is being called and adjust, and we did not. Of course, we weren't alone...
Observation three: Referees in all games seem to be making bad calls, but in an inconsistent manner. Bad calls made in some semblance of a pattern can be adjusted to (This ref overreacts to contact, that ref is a stickler for offsides, etc), but this weirdness that's been going on fits no pattern and thus is worse by an order of magnitude. FIFA's* defense of the refs is maddening. We have video evidence of these games, FIFA. All around the world, people are watching and professionals are critiquing the events within them. At least give us some corporate "mistakes have been made and measures are being undertaken to address them" bullshit.
Observation four: It must be neat to be in a country where everyone loves the national team or at least cares. Having national holidays declared because a sports team is playing in international competition must be fairly awesome. Well, until your team loses and the whole country is in a bad mood for a week or two...
One thing brought up in analysis of our team as opposed to others is that the best athletes in our country all go to play (American) football or basketball. It kind of makes me wonder what a Jordan or a Rice could have done if they'd had that same focus, intensity, and drive but translated it to a sport that's appreciated outside of their borders.
On the other hand, would it actually be possible for Michael Jordan to be more famous?
*Suggested spellings: Fifi's, Fife's, Fief's, Fifes, Fives, Fovea's, Fiat's, Ufa's, Fig's
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Does anyone know of any sports where video replays are used during the game to help the ref make a particularly tricky/important decision? I think if the referee could consult an off-pitch official with access to replays, it would help eliminate unnecessary penalties, cards and free kicks while increasing the number of just decisions. Plus, if we'd had that previously Maradona would never have fuck*ng got away with The Hand Of God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_of_God_goal). In an event as important as the World Cup it seems naive to rely on three pairs of eyes being able to assess everything that happens without fault.
On the other hand, it might halt the fluency of the game and so forth. I could bear it.
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Plus, if we'd had that previously Maradona would never have fuck*ng got away with The Hand Of God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_of_God_goal).
it's been 20 years already
let it go man
:P
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Does anyone know of any sports where video replays are used during the game to help the ref make a particularly tricky/important decision?
The NFL. It was there for years, then it went away because it slowed down the game, then brought back because of all the situations where people said "if only we had instant replay!"
During regulation play either coach can throw a red hankie to signal he wants the replay consulted. If the call stands that coach is fined one time out for wasting everybody's time. During the last two minutes of a half, or during all of overtime the coaches can no longer throw the flags. During these times mysterious officials in a booth somewhere will tell the ref to review a questionable call.
But American football is a maddeningly slow game anyway, so IR fits. The average NFL game is over 3 hours long but the ball is only in play for about 16 minutes. There is already a metric crapton of down time and waiting so the 2 minutes allowed for an instant replay can't slow the game down any more. The game already includes commercial time-outs for gods' sake. If it were rugby the fans would go apeshit if they had to wait 2 minutes for the game to get going again.
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Observation four: It must be neat to be in a country where everyone loves the national team or at least cares. Having national holidays declared because a sports team is playing in international competition must be fairly awesome. Well, until your team loses and the whole country is in a bad mood for a week or two...
If you don't think Super Bowl Sunday is a de facto national holiday, you're kidding yourself. Also, around here the first Thursday through Sunday of March Madness might as well be holidays.
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The game already includes commercial time-outs for gods' sake.
Minor point of order: During a football game, they go to commercial during the next regular stoppage of play (change of possession, scoring play). They don't stop play specifically so they can go to a TV commercial (they do in the NBA, though).
This does, however, lead to the annoying practice of a team scoring, commercial, kickoff, another commercial.
Back to the World Cup: We had a fun little exercise the other day, imagining what the US national team would be like if you could pick and choose athletes, then go back in time and make them soccer players. Peyton Manning as central midfielder, Dwayne Wade and Terrell Owens as wingmen, Allen Iverson as a forward, Shaq or Randy Johnson as a goalie.
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Does anyone know of any sports where video replays are used during the game to help the ref make a particularly tricky/important decision?
As mentioned they use them in American football, which was like a huge deal.
Also, Basketball and Baseball both use them in very small spots. With Basketball, they only use it for end of the quarter shots, to see if the shot was off before the buzzer sounded. In baseball, they will use them if people interfer with a ball that was not a homerun but the fans caught it and brought it over the fench.
Overall, baseball is very weird with their replay, but generally they only use it on homeruns to tell if it is fair or the previously mentioned stuff. I know in basketball they are not allowed to use instant replay at any other time than at the end of quarters. I THINK baseball is more laid back and they just use it when they need it, which is about 5 times per season (not alot considering it is like 30 teams that play 162 games each year).
I didn't read the previous poster who talked about football, but the instant replay rules are very strict, and, basically, only some non-opinion calls can be replayed. If the ref makes a dumb call it can not always be reversed.
Edit: A HUGE moment that it was used in baseball was in the 2004 ALCS (A series before the world series that decides who advances there), between the New York Yankees and Boston red Sox, when Alex Rodrigues slapped the ball out of Bronson Arroyo's glove while he was running to first. I don't know what you know about baseball, but basically if someone tags you, you are out, but if they drop the ball you are safe. You aren't allowed to slap it though, only like run into them real hard. The umps called him safe, watched video replay, then reversed the call. Still, it is very rare. You don't really need it at all in baseball.
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Still, it is very rare. You don't really need it at all in baseball.
Oh, I beg to differ. Remember Jeffrey Maier? Fuck that kid, fuck him.
For the non-sporting: playoff game, Orioles vs. Yankees. Jeter, I think it was, hit a fly ball to the warning track. The O's outfielder was camped under it, back to the wall, and a kid reached over the fence and caught it. They called it a home run. Replays showed he was clearly leaning over the fence, and the outfielder was clearly lined up to catch it. But noooooooooooooooooooooooo.
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Yea, that is basically what I was trying to say. The only time that you need it in baseball are on pretty rare homerun calls (fan interference and fair/foul) and EXTREMLY rarely otherwise. Is there a play besides that A-Rod thing that they have used IR for that you know of, not on a homerun of course?
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OK, I think we're in agreement then. Not many plays in baseball when replays are necessary, but when they are it's high-impact, as in the home run cases you mentioned. I don't know of any other particular uses--they're not going to get into it on balls and strikes, or judgment fair-or-safe calls. I could see it on "Was he hit by that pitch?" calls, but the time wasted looking at replay probably doesn't merit the impact of the play.
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The cool thing about the baseball instant replay is that there was no big deal about it. They just used it and no one did anything about it.
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Call me a history buff if you will but...
10,000 German men... yelling and waving flags?
Never a good thing.
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Don't mention the war! (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5409116)
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Bah! Out we go. Screw you, Portugal! If you'll allow me a quote to sum up my feelings:
"To love, to hurt! Is life! Is way of world! Cry! Become a man! Become ALIVE!" - Vlad
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But on the upside, Go France! Man that was awesome.
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Hell of a game tonight! I went into it wanting Germany to go through, especially after Grosso's dive to win the Australia game, but by the end of it, I was siding with my relatives once more. Nice cocky ending to a well deserved win in the end I thought, and a curiously enforced clean game too.
For someone who hates football as much as I, I do get terribly involved in a World Cup, even with my transient allegiances.
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Hell of a game tonight! I went into it wanting Germany to go through, especially after Grosso's dive to win the Australia game, but by the end of it, I was siding with my relatives once more. Nice cocky ending to a well deserved win in the end I thought, and a curiously enforced clean game too.
For someone who hates football as much as I, I do get terribly involved in a World Cup, even with my transient allegiances.
I too wanted Germany to go through. Most of the European teams, while very good, are also very adept at tricking referees and playing the officials to their advantage. Germany are still an excellent team but do not indulge in any of that diving bollocks.
Which is why I was shocked to see them lose to Italy. The score really doesn't reflect how the match went, I feel, and it could well have gone to penalties. But that's what makes World Cups interesting.
But if Italy are good enough to get through to the final, fair play to them all the way. God forbid France win it AGAIN.
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Well, Portugal were a gem... That is, my word, they continued to play that way?
Didn't think France looked much except tired, so I suspect if it were to continue like that, and with Italy's defense (Cannavaro was awesome in the Germany game) I can see the Italians taking it. But, we'll see.
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I'm currently split on who I want to win. France play an ugly, opportunistic game but they have a lot of talent and are pretty good sportsmen. The Italians are fun to watch and talented but we've seen the kind of tricks they get up to. Hopefully, they'll pick a referee who picks up on that sort of thing and keeps it to a minimum.
If I had to pick one, I'd back France because Zidane is a hell of a good player and it would be nice to see him lift the trophy in his last international game.
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Everyone I root for loses. USA, Ghana, England, Germany, Portugal...
Italians and Frenchies should PAY me to not root for their team in the final.
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I'm currently split on who I want to win. France play an ugly, opportunistic game but they have a lot of talent and are pretty good sportsmen. The Italians are fun to watch and talented but we've seen the kind of tricks they get up to. Hopefully, they'll pick a referee who picks up on that sort of thing and keeps it to a minimum.
If I had to pick one, I'd back France because Zidane is a hell of a good player and it would be nice to see him lift the trophy in his last international game.
Agreed. Although if Italy can play as clean as they were somewhat forced to against Germany it will be nice. Certainly at the moment if I were to pick a player of thr tournament it would be Zidane, with I think Canavaro as the contender at the moment. Odd pair to be battling it out I know, but... Yeah.
I guess though, Ronaldo despite being old and fat got his record, so Zidane should lift a trophy. Then again, my cousins would hate to hear me speaking like that.
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Well, that's over for another four years. Well done Italy etc. It's been a pretty awesome tournament and Germany were great hosts.
What a way for Zidane to end a brilliant career, though. How bloody disappointing. (To anyone who didn't see, he straight up headbutted an Italian player.)
I can't be bothered to offer much commentary; I had lots stored up over the weekend, but it's all gone now. My World Cup fever has transferred itself into a small headache.
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hm.
so, um, don't Italian men get all aggressive towards ladies in this kind of situation?
*frets*
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hm.
so, um, don't Italian men get all aggressive towards ladies in this kind of situation?
*frets*
Not aggressive... loving.
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What the HELL Zizou? What could he have been thinking? What in possible god's hell could he have been thinking? So dissapointing. What a bad way to end his career.
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OK Judy considering the Italian guys would not leave this girl I was with when I was there alone and they are probably drunk and very excited right now is my blonde-haired blue-eyed girlfriend going to have a problem?
*intake of breath*
I just worry because seriously, those guys are so persistent. They followed us around for like 20 minutes trying to get the girl I was hanging out with to go with them to their apartment. In the end i had to pretend to be her boyfriend.
so yeah. Italy is awesome.
and I am 90% kidding about worrying about this.
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I think the Italian must have said something incredibly filthy to get him to do that. This man could have been insulting Zidane's family and what-not. It doesn't excuse what he did, but I have a feeling Zidane would be the kind of man who would defend his family's honour.
Just... not with physical violence next time?
OK Judy considering the Italian guys would not leave this girl I was with when I was there alone and they are probably drunk and very excited right now is my blonde-haired blue-eyed girlfriend going to have a problem?
*intake of breath*
I just worry because seriously, those guys are so persistent. They followed us around for like 20 minutes trying to get the girl I was hanging out with to go with them to their apartment. In the end i had to pretend to be her boyfriend.
so yeah. Italy is awesome.
and I am 90% kidding about worrying about this.
A girl I think is awesome went to Italy this evening! Stop scaring me!
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So, you can butt someone so hard with just your head that it counts as physical violence? I guess if you have spent years hitting a ball with it?
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So, you can butt someone so hard with just your head that it counts as physical violence? I guess if you have spent years hitting a ball with it?
Dude hit the guy so hard he swung off his feet! I think you underestimate how hard the human skull is. I have knocked people out with my head before without years of football.
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Wombat, that was the hardest headbutt I'd ever seen. The Italian dude just crumpled. I really wanna know what words were exchanged there. You'd think that these guys would be desensitized to regular "Your sister is a prostitute" style trash talk.
Hooray for abc broadcasting the game! I'm borrowing a friend's tv (since I've been sick and bored for weeks now), and I finally got to see a game at home!
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You'd think that these guys would be desensitized to regular "Your sister is a prostitute" style trash talk.
I've heard rumours Materazzi insulted Zidane's own kids. That is really fuck*ng low. It's just a rumour, but it doesn't seem unlikely; I don't think anything would more effective in incensing a man more than personal insults on his own children. Zidane seems so cool that I reckon only the most hurtful of jibes could set him off.
And interestingly:
Earlier in the competition he received a red card and a two-game suspension in a 4-0 win over Saudi Arabia for stomping on an opposing player for no apparent reason. Reports from people close to Zidane state that the Saudi player in question had provoked him verbally
- Wikipedia
I guess today wasn't unprecedented, then. It's just a shame that there will be some people who will remember him for his occasional temper rather than his awesome skills.
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You've missed the most important part of that wiki paragraph though!
...One such display occurred in a 2000/2001 Champions League match between Juventus Turin and Hamburger SV, in which Zidane headbutted Jochen Kientz; he received a red card for this action.
There was also precedent for STRAIGHT UP HEADBUTTING A GUY IN THE HEART
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You've missed the most important part of that wiki paragraph though!
There was also precedent for STRAIGHT UP HEADBUTTING A GUY IN THE HEART
I'd make a joke about Zidane being a man who uses his head, but... too late.
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dude I can imagine myself head-butting a man who had insulted my Personal Children.
like fo' real.
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So, you can butt someone so hard with just your head that it counts as physical violence? I guess if you have spent years hitting a ball with it?
If you do it right. If you headbutt somebody in on the top of their head or forehead it'll basically hurt both of the equally. But if you headbutt them in the bridge of the nose they'll just crumple.
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This particular headbutt was to the solar plexus, which I can tell you is a very effective way to crumple someone temporarily.
There have been a few cases in recent years of kids hit in the chest with baseballs or softballs actually going into arrest and dying within minutes.
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(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/663/zidane6hit2kc.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
I did not make this. But I found it amusing. There are others about.
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I just wanted to say that their are many factors here that no one has mentioned.
Zidane is a first generation Frenchmen from Algerian (Muslim) decent (He describes himself as a non-practicing Muslim). After the last World Cup he won, he was referred to as an Algerian Frenchmen in the French press, which I understand to be a racial slur of sorts. Also, a politician in France had already said early in the Cup that the French team did not represent France, as 16 of the 23 members were non-Whites. Add to this that the Spanish and Italian leagues are known for racism. Like, when a black person is taking corners the crowd will make monkey noises and throw bananas at the player, for instance. Also, Zidane has had previous episodes of violence on the pitch because of racial slurs.
Pretty much, the Italian said something racist. Well, probably.
Personally, I think it is a cool way to end a career if it was a racial slur. I doubt he is too hot on France, especially because of how they treated him last time. Plus, he already has won a World Cup, which is more reason to stand up for yourself, etc. If it was a non-racist statement I guess he just lost his head. I would literally bet all of my posessions on it being a racial slur though.
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If it was a non-racist statement I guess he just lost his head. I would literally bet all of my posessions on it being a racial slur though.
I would by and large, although it's also true that he is a bit ego-driven, and was apparently furious at the French press saying he was useless and too old, and shouldn't have been picked. That and Gatusso was pwning him throughout that game, so it is also conceivable that Matarazzi said something along the lines of 'I know I grabbed your nipple there, buy boy do you suck like the easiest cheerleader tonight'.
Just a hunch.
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According to the Sun (famous for Page 3 boobs, not news) Materazzi called him the "son of a terrorist whore." According to Materazzi, " 'I did insult him, it’s true,' Materazzi said in Tuesday’s Gazzetta dello Sport. 'But I categorically did not call him a terrorist. I’m not cultured and I don’t even know what an Islamic terrorist is.' "
So there you go. Obviously Materazzi is not going to say he said a racial slur, and the sun is not reliable. I am sure Zidane will sell his story for loads of cash, then Materazzi will deny it.
Oh yeah, the SUn is using "lip reading experts" to determine what he said. So whatever you make of that, I guess.
Edit:Here is that Sun article, if you want to read it: http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006310771,00.html
I ahve been thinking about it, and that is an awesomely lame excuse by Materazzi.
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It was a classless move that possibly cost his team and country the World Cup. The other (also classless) guy wins because he got the reaction that may have led to Italy winning.
Not being able to keep your head when it's important, when the cost goes way beyond you, is a personal failure. Zidane's reaction was self-gratification through violence, common thuggery. He has a fairly long history of thuggery (16 career red card sendoffs??) and he was very possibly played by the Italian. It's better it get decided on the field by superior play and if the Italian guy intended to get that kind of rise out of Zidane, he's a dick too. People need to act like adults and be about their business.
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It was a classless move that possibly cost his team and country the World Cup.
Beyond momentum it did not affect anything. Also, he had already won his team and country a World Cup, and was treated poorly in his country after that, so why does he have to do it again? Fuck, why should he want to do it again. Since when is some retarded trophy more important than your pride?
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How is that something to be proud of? That's what I don't understand. Maybe it was meaningless to the outcome - but surely you aren't saying that he did the right thing in that situation.
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Yeah, there are a LOT of lip-readers coming up with a LOT of different "interpretations."
Conclusion: lip-reading is not SCIENCE.
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I think there are certainly worse things he could have done, if in fact it was a racial slur.
I think you don't understand the rampant racism involved in soccer. As I said, he was treated poorly by the French after they won in 98, so has no reason to play for his country. He has already won a World Cup and is generally considered one of the greatest players of the last 20 years, so he has nothing to prove for himself. Do you let a person trash your culture and your family, or do you make him pay for what he said, thus restoring your pride. I doubt he thought of all this, but it is, at very least, justifiable.
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Yes but, on the other hand, if racist people hold that Algerians are violent thugs, he may have salved his own sense of indignation at the cost of perpetuating the stereotype. He proves the other guys point.
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I didn't look at it that way. Education.
Still I would say that a racial slur is worse than what he did in return, even if it proves his point, because it doesn't really prove his point. The Italian is being the thug in that situation. But still, it gives the image of Zidane being the thug to a casual observer or for one that wants it to be that way. Who knows what is worse out of those two options? Actually being the real asshole, or being perceived as the asshole.
So I guess I am trying to say that I see your point.
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I am impressed by the ferocity of the headbutt involved. Even if the guy getting butted was overselling it, it was a pretty impressively fierce headbutt. He has earned my headbutt-ability respect.
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He was known for his headers. That was one of his specialties.
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I'm not sure he was overselling it since it was a total surprise and was away from the ball and the ref. I think he just flat out got knocked on his ass. Especially considering where he was struck. And, yeah, ol' Zizzou definitely is no stranger to applying his head to an object in a direct way.
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Mostly I hate these things, but this (http://solo.infames.org/parecidos-razonables-xi/) made me laugh pretty hard. (Mostly because I love the original scene it references)
Here (http://javimoya.com/blog/pics/200607/zidane.htm)'s a whole stupid page of them... you know.. if you want. Jeezus humanity, seriously. (Okay the lamp post one is pretty funny too.)
Lister: I blame you for this entirely.
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I like the one you click to headbutt the oncoming series of Matarazzis. That was funny.
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Have to say, I quite liked Zidane headbutting the death star to obliteration.
Classy.
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There are rumors now that 2010 could, possibly be held in the U.S. It is now scheduled for South Africa, but they are worried about travel accomidations, and, well, that it is in South Africa probably. If they do move it I would like them to move it to amother place in Africa, but it would be really cool to go to some games.
http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/story/0,,1818166,00.html
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So, Ronaldinho's girlfriend said that he stayed up late having sex with her and playing playstation, which is why he didn't play well in the world cup.
Hell of Sex and FIFA World Cup 2006 (I mean the video game) (http://www.deadspin.com/sports/soccer/well-worth-losing-the-world-cup-189659.php)
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OK, I joined this forum long after the World Cup finished. Here are my overall thoughts:
1) Sami Hyppia is in fact Finnish.
2) Australia were so brave and I was rooting for them throughout (Mum's Australian).
3) A few months afterwards, I think a lot of people see the headbutt incident as a blip rather than a disastrous end to ZZ's career.