The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: melack on June 03, 2006, 01:30:21 am
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I've created a new system for rating movies, and I'd like to share it with you. It's what I call Value Over Big (VOB). It's unlike the thumbs up or the number of stars rating systems in that it employs the use of a specific film, the 1988 Tom Hanks comedy about a boy who magically grows into a man overnight, as a baseline for comparing other movies. A film that I find to be worse than Big will receive a negative numerical score, while a film that I find superior to Big receives a positive score.
For example, the original Star Wars receives a 26.3 VOB. It's one of history's great films, and its score reflects that. However, a movie that I only barely liked more than Big, the 1977 Paul Newman hockey comedy Slap Shot, managed a 1.7 VOB. The Da Vinci code, another Tom Hanks movie and one I recently reviewed here, scored a -9.2 VOB. To give more context, the Scary Movie series ranges in score from -34.6 to -52.9.
What are the advantages of this rating system? As far as I can tell, there are none.
The disadvantages are numerous. Firstly, and most glaring, Big is not an average film. Indeed, it is a very good film. Therefore the baseline is not an average or a neutral one, but instead quite arbitrary. This leads to confusing rating systems where a perfectly good movie might very possibly receive a negative score. The classic Hitchcock film, Vertigo, for example--a prefectly fine movie--scored just a -0.8 VOB. Furthermore, there is no paramater to the number system. Each number is assigned a score relative to other movies I have seen, with no limits on either the positive or negative ends of the spectrum. As opinions of movies change over time, this causes a tremendous strain on the integrity of other scores closesly located on the VOB scale. Like a giant spiderweb, each score is closely related, and one shifting opinion is akin to a string breeze that causes the web to flap uncontrollably in the wind.
So, you might be asking yourselves why I would come up with such an ureliable movie rating system. The answer is simple: I felt modern movie discourse had gotten to the point where it wasn't focusing enough attention on Big. What better way to solve that error than by creating a movie rating system where everyone must constantly remember and analyze the merits of Big in comparison to the film one has just viewed? It rightly transforms Big from a cinematic memory into the very essence of the moviegoing experience. Though highly unreliable and largely uninformative, it is a sacrifice we must make as viewers and citizens.
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I give it a 7. It has a nice beat and you can dance to it.
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Thumbs in the middle
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Melack, it's kind of cute that you put so much thought into this. I actually think "Big" is a good choice. It's not a bad movie, but it's pretty middle-of-the-road in terms of greatness.
Also, I found the underlying love story a little on the perv-ish/pedophilic side, and I wonder how this fits in to your rating system?
(I hope you don't mind, but I corrected your typo: in the thread title you wrote "move" when you clearly meant "movie." Also, did you know we have a spell check feature? I tell you this un-sarcastically - your post is readable, but does have typos in it that would be easily fixed by running her through the old spell checker.)
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Vertigo -0.8 VOB? Inconceivable!
~Paul
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Vertigo -0.8 VOB? Inconceivable!
~Paul
Seconded!
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Thumbs down on a system that is even more subjective than most systems because it all depends on whether you liked a particular movie or not.
Vertigo -.8 indeed.
Pffffft.
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To be fair, Vertigo and Big share one important trait: total cop-out endings.
Otherwise, I like it. Maybe I'll start using the VOB system or start thinking about my own version of the system, based on a movie I like but don't worship. (Maybe VOPB, Value Over Princess Bride...)
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Man, I don't want to start a war or anything, but I don't think I would ever say Star Wars is one of history's great films without busting out in laughter. I mean, yeah, first to use amazing special effects and whatnot, but when you get down to it, it's a kids movie. Lots of fun? Yes. History's Great Movie? My vote goes to no.
*ducks from all the fanboys*
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Man, I don't want to start a war or anything, but I don't think I would ever say Star Wars is one of history's great films without busting out in laughter. I mean, yeah, first to use amazing special effects and whatnot, but when you get down to it, it's a kids movie. Lots of fun? Yes. History's Great Movie? My vote goes to no.
*ducks from all the fanboys*
Ahem, and fangirls.
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And distribution companies with a really shitty movie to push can pick an even shittier movie and plug it into the formula, and it will look that much better.
I like it too.
Also, I agree with Q on Star Wars, but! There are at least a few kids movies I would consider some of history's greatest.
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my own version of the system, based on a movie I like but don't worship.
Yes, this is the right idea. Now if only I could think of a movie I like.
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Man, I don't want to start a war or anything, but I don't think I would ever say Star Wars is one of history's great films without busting out in laughter. I mean, yeah, first to use amazing special effects and whatnot, but when you get down to it, it's a kids movie. Lots of fun? Yes. History's Great Movie? My vote goes to no.
*ducks from all the fanboys*
Why can it not be a great movie just because it's fun? Are greatness and fun mutually exclusive? Can there be no great kids movies?
What are your criteria for greatness?
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um dude, star wars is brilliant. it takes the archetypes of the hero, and applies them to Science Fiction.
Me, a few of my friends, and my favorite english teacher will War you on this.
also, Hobot.
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um dude, star wars is brilliant. it takes the archetypes of the hero, and applies them to Science Fiction.
Me, a few of my friends, and my favorite english teacher will War you on this.
also, Hobot.
Oh right. I forgot that mixing two things which already existed makes something BRILLIANT! Fuck Joseph Campbell man, seriously.
You leave Hobot out of this, I will deal with her... personally. <ominous music>
AW: I think a "Great Movie" can be fun sure, but at the same time, I'm less inclined to categorize it as such if that's all there is to it. I suppose I kind of see it like movie junk food.
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Oh right. I forgot that mixing two things which already existed makes something BRILLIANT! Fuck Joseph Campbell man, seriously.
You leave Hobot out of this, I will deal with her... personally. <ominous music>
AW: I think a "Great Movie" can be fun sure, but at the same time, I'm less inclined to categorize it as such if that's all there is to it. I suppose I kind of see it like movie junk food.
Okay, I didn't want to do this -- I really didn't. But you've left me no choice...
*SAD EYES*
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V-adore - So did you choose Princess Bride because it ranks somewhere in the middle to you? Because for me, it's somewhere closer to the top. Proof positive that I am a girl.
I would want to choose a movie that is totally middle of the road as my ratings marker. I can't really think of a perfectly middle of the read movie.
And to everyone: Did you know that I have made it my mission to never see any of the first three Star Wars movies? It's true. Having not seen them made life a lot easier for me when I worked at the comic shop for three years. We had a fairly regular group of Sunday customers that were all my coworkers friends, and they would get into heated debate over Star Wars, and always want me to be a neutral-person tie breaker, only, indeed, I could not, as I had never seen any the movies all the way through. They all refused to believe this. The truth is, that when I was very small, I have vague memories of being in the back of my parents station wagon, in my P.J.'s, dipping in and out of sleep during the one where Darth Vader is finally revealed at Luke's father. But since I slept through most of it, and it was when I was too young to remember anything, it doesn't count.
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Okay, I didn't want to do this -- I really didn't. But you've left me no choice...
*SAD EYES*
You'll pay for this, don't think you won't pay!
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I wasn't really "sold" on Hobot completely until I learned that she was a Star Wars fan. I mean, the whole "I dig both ladies and fellows" sucked me in, of course, but the Star Wars clinched it.
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Star Wars wouldn't be half as popular as it is today if it wasn't for lightsabers.
I hold that no matter what argument someone makes against this fact, deep down in their id they know this is true.
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I was out with a girl today, and star wars came up (we were at the "Pops in the Park" thing where the local symphony plays out side... they mentioned John Williams), and she got glossy-eyed.
I knew at that moment she was definitely the girl for me.
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While I really enjoy Star Wars I can agree with it not being a Great Movie (capitalisation is important) on it's own merits but I think you have to take cultural impact into account too.
Princess Bride on the other hand is goddamn awesome; it is the perfect perfect fairy tale that neither talks down to it's audience or needs to make fun of itself to be enjoyable (the exception to this is Billy Crystal's character which is kind of weirdly out of place, but hey, it's billy crystal). I am a goddamn horror to go see movies with, I will make comments and pick holes all the way through during anything but no matter how bad the princess bride plot is (and I am aware there are bits that just don't make any sense at all) I can't help but watch, enjoy and find the character's actions and reactions totally believable and the story thoroughly enjoyable.
Also: half-decent fencing. They are trying to actually hit each other instead of the other blade, do you know how rare that is?
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really? princess bride wasn't totally making fun of itself and the genre?
maybe I need to watch it again. because that is totally what I got out of it.
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I told you it was a terrible rating system, but it seems to have more or less succeeded in its job of getting people to start talking about Big again. Also, Princess Bride gets a 45.3 VOB. Is that higher or lower than Star Wars? I don't remember what score I gave Star Wars. That's one of the drawbacks to the system; you tend to arbitrarily throw out numbers, rarely remembering what they are.
I apologize for my flurry of typos, I typed out my idea in such a Big-induced haze. You know how that goes, right?
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I'm pretty sure a better benchmark would be like, "Escape From New York" or "Stalker". Just how I would do, really. If I did Escape from NY pretty much everything would get like -200 or something. It's a good movie.
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Inev: Maybe it's just my viewing of it but I never thought it did, it used every cliche of the genre but it was funny in an internally consistant way that didn't require knowledge outside it's own world. As opposed to movies like Shrek (which I thought was good too) which rely on being able to go 'haha see how silly fairy tales are' for a lot of their gags. I guess you might say it was entertaining without needing to break the fourth wall, no winking at the camera etc.
Plus Andre the Giant.
Come on man.
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While I really enjoy Star Wars I can agree with it not being a Great Movie (capitalisation is important) on it's own merits but I think you have to take cultural impact into account too.
Princess Bride on the other hand is goddamn awesome; it is the perfect perfect fairy tale that neither talks down to it's audience or needs to make fun of itself to be enjoyable (the exception to this is Billy Crystal's character which is kind of weirdly out of place, but hey, it's billy crystal). I am a goddamn horror to go see movies with, I will make comments and pick holes all the way through during anything but no matter how bad the princess bride plot is (and I am aware there are bits that just don't make any sense at all) I can't help but watch, enjoy and find the character's actions and reactions totally believable and the story thoroughly enjoyable.
Also: half-decent fencing. They are trying to actually hit each other instead of the other blade, do you know how rare that is?
Have you read the book? It attempts to explain why the plot jumps around a bit. Not to mention the grandfather bits. But whenever I read it I must mentally delete all mentions of Fezzik's mustache. Because Andre the Giant doesn't have one and the man is Fezzik. Random "trivia" I can't actuall provide a citation for: Supposedly the costume designers had to use the "guess and check" method for Andre because it was in his contract that he couldn't be measured or weighed. Apparently because Vince McMahon didn't want anybody to be able to prove that Andre's announced wrestling height and weight were exagerated.
My college stage combat class actually showed us this fencing scene as one of the 5 best in cinema history. The only other I remember is the Darth Maul scene.
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Princess Bride must be a generational thing, because it does next to nothing for me.
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Yeah, it's one of my favourite movies. Must be meant for people who were about 12 when it came out.
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I liked Princess Bride a lot, and I'm more of Aug's generation. But then I suppose there's no accounting for my taste in movies.
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I was 3 when Princess Bride came out, but I love it to pieces. Generations can be misleading.
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I wasn't really "sold" on Hobot completely until I learned that she was a Star Wars fan. I mean, the whole "I dig both ladies and fellows" sucked me in, of course, but the Star Wars clinched it.
Also my love of Stanley Kubrick, as I recall.
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Oh! Oh! Stanley Kubric. I was recently very sad because I was thinking about Stanley Kubric and how movies like his wouldn't get made in today's market - too much of a risk for a big studio, too expensive for a small studio. A Clockwork Orange is the movie for me. It is the movie.
(Also, as a side note, my very first short-film screenplay, "The Restaurant for Lonely People" is currently in preproduction, and will be shooting on Father's day. Characters include The Three Sisters of Infinite Sorrow, Snake Boy, The She-Hermit, Hansel and Gretel, and of course, The Waiter. It is very low budget, but has a lot of potential. All the actors are age 9 - 17 it was cast on Sunday.)
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Also my love of Stanley Kubrick, as I recall.
And you love Radiohead as I recall.
A Clockwork Orange sits in my DVD player even now. Awaiting. Saw Full Metal Jacket over the weekend. Would have rented 2001 had Blockbuster had it in stock. I'm binging on Kubrick right now. I just watched the Shining about 6 months ago, should I see it again? Yeah, I think so...
Kubrick is the Man.
Hobot, have you seen his early films? I highly recommend the Killing.
Oddly enough I've never seen Barry Lyndon. It's in my Netflix queue, I think i'll bump it to the top.
~Paul
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No love for Doctor Strangelove? Arguably the best cold-war-apocalypse-military-political comedy every produced?
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There is obviously much about Hobot for which to build a case.
I have much love for Dr. Strangelove. I just watched "Fail Safe" for the first time over the weekend and was amused by the parallels. Also, Fail Safe was hard-fuck*ng-core. Good stuff. Like a serious version of Strangelove. In fact, so much so that the author of the novel sued the dude who wrote the book on which Strangelove was based.
Columbia Pictures, who owned the options to both films (and put them both out in 1964) was the only real winner there (well, other than us, who get to see both great films).
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No love for Doctor Strangelove? Arguably the best cold-war-apocalypse-military-political comedy every produced?
Yes of course. I saw that last year as well. I'll bump it up in the queue as well if it makes you happy Doc.
~Paul
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There is obviously much about Hobot for which to build a case.
I find if you cut them into small enough pieces, you don't need a case - a sturdy bag will do the trick.
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I find if you cut them into small enough pieces, you don't need a case - a sturdy bag will do the trick.
*fingers my jaw stabbing knife briefly*
But for the record you wouldn't even need to go that far, for Mme is very wee. Not that I've... researched... or anyth- I SHOULD GO! *runs out of room*
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Princess Bride on the other hand is goddamn awesome; it is the perfect perfect fairy tale that neither talks down to it's audience or needs to make fun of itself to be enjoyable
I agree and also apply this (perhaps in a different angle) to The Neverending Story, although I understand that not everybody feels the same way.
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*fingers my jaw stabbing knife briefly*
But for the record you wouldn't even need to go that far, for Mme is very wee. Not that I've... researched... or anyth- I SHOULD GO! *runs out of room*
Damn, I miss all the fun now that I've started my internship. Jough is generous with his compliments, AD thinks about killing and bagging me (NOTE: I prefer being wrapped in a fine oriental rug), and Q is, well... some things never change.
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(NOTE: I prefer being wrapped in a fine oriental rug)
A tasteful choice, and good for concealing those pesky bloodstains.
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Rug schmug. Industrial Barrels of Lye leave no evidence! Or beetles and a compost pile; takes longer but is less conspicuous.
Er.. I'm just saying.
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My reference movie is The Big Lebowski. A good to great film will score a -174.1 at best.
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Damn, I miss all the fun now that I've started my internship. Jough is generous with his compliments, AD thinks about killing and bagging me (NOTE: I prefer being wrapped in a fine oriental rug), and Q is, well... some things never change.
I'm not wrecking a fine oriental rug for that purpose. You get a K-mart area rug. The real low pile, itchy kind in pastel pink.