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Trivial Pursuits => Sports & Leisure => Topic started by: Drygioni on August 01, 2006, 11:34:54 pm
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http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article1207619.ece (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article1207619.ece)
So, according to this scientific report, legal drugs such as smoking and alcohol are apparently more dangerous than Class A/B drugs such as LSD, Ecstasty, and (this is a big one) Cannabis. Among other things. Take a look!
I found it pretty interesting. While I expected some of this (LSD not really very dangerous by comparison, heroin still definitely a bad thing), ranking everyday things like alcohol and tobacco above such social stigmas as weed and E's make it seem like we've either been hoodwinked by governments about drugs, or the scientists were off their collective rocker.
Maybe they did a little too much 'research' into the drugs. Zing.
Some of it does make sense, though. The danger of a drug is obviously also judged on how it affects non-users, and it's safe to say that alcohol and smoking are far worse on society (second hand smoke, cancer, drunk driving, aggressiveness etc.) than cannabis is. Maybe. Who knows? I ain't a man of science or any recreational substances.
Hopefully this won't spark any arguments, though it doesn't seem as if it will.
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This "tobacco-and-alcohol-are-as-dangerous-as-illegal-drugs-or-even-more" argument is tricky because it easily backfires when some people counter-argument with something like "OK then, let's outlaw everything altogether!" I don't smoke and rarely drink, but I wouldn't like another prohibition.
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plus: how is this credible? to rank the danger of a drug on a ternary scale is pretty arbitrary, and they dont even provide a methodology for the rankings. add to this that the source is called THE INDEPENDENT, and that the caption pretty much identifies this report as one of extreme danger to the government, and you can pretty safely distance yourself from any claims as to its science
this is amusing though
11: Cannabis (Class C)
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NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 16
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yea, I don't know, but I know I have done probably as many drugs as anybody on this board and I can tell you that marijuana is not bad at all. I am also a daily smoker and pretty regular drinker though. Anyways, cocaine and heroin based drugs should probably remain illegal with hell of reforms over what punishment you get for possessing those, while pretty much everything else should be legal. That is just like my opinion though. Oh, yeah, no meth either.
Edit: Cocaine is a horrible drug and I basically became an instant addict. Would do it again today though if someone put it in front of me. Thanks to this struggle I never did heroin or anything. Luckily, because I am sure I would have gotten hooked on that real easy.
Edit 2: Basically I am addicted to cannibus as well. In the last 5 years I have gone less than 30 days without smoking. If you are going to lean on a substance though, cannibus is safer than coffee or cigarettes I am pretty sure, and definatley safer than alcohol.
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plus: how is this credible?
I've got the paper in front of me now, and it gives slightly more detail; the study was conducted by medical experts in the employ of the Government. Governments, of course, never lie. On the source issue, I'd doubt the Independent would publish this solely to embarrass Mr Blair, as it is at times sickingly pro-Labour.
I think I'm going to need explaining on why Cannabis (Class C)/UK Deaths: 16 is funny. Am I missing something?
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I think I'm going to need explaining on why Cannabis (Class C)/UK Deaths: 16 is funny. Am I missing something?
It's funny because one cannot see how in the hell 16 people died from toking up I'd imagine.
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It's funny because a dead Englishman is always funny. Ha Ha! Dead Englishman! That gets me every time.
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It's funny because one cannot see how in the hell 16 people died from toking up I'd imagine.
Plus, if someone dies because of Cannibus somehow, you can always be like "Well, one less idiot in the world." which is a good thing.
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I guess those are the sort of people the Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/) are intended for.
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I gotta admit, if the people who had died through cannabism had died in silly ways it would add a note of hilarity. Maybe swallowing the roll up or something.
I was going to post about the Darwin awards but they had already been Rogered.
Nevermind, I found something relevant!
(2006, Adelaide, Australia) In the suburbs of Adelaide, "the undisputed cannabis capital of Australia", sleeping residents were awakened by a resounding explosion. A smoking hole was found in a neighbor's backyard, still reeking of the pungent odor of marijuana. Police found the remains of a man at the bottom of the hole.
They learned that the deceased had setup a hidden hydroponic system in a large water tank buried in his backyard. He used a CO2 generator -- a small flame from a butane gas bottle -- to improve plant growth. On this particular evening, the man had climbed down into his garden paradise, only to find that the flame had gone out. Without knowing how many days the gas had been leaking into his, er, bomb, he re-lit the flame.
Oops.
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Say what you will about marijuana, but to call its odor pungent is ridiculous.
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Say what you will about marijuana, but to call its odor pungent is ridiculous.
Yeah.. I can't tell you how often I've smelled tar and thought "Damn.. where are all the rastafarians here in this parking lot?"
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so, um, I was under the impression that it was impossible to die from an OD of cannabis-- that to achieve the level which would be death-dealing like Juno, you would have to straight-up inject it in massive quantities.
so is this deaths like "I got really stoned and fell on a knife?"
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You can still get lung cancer from cannibis smoke.
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I've also heard of ecstasy "burning out" seratonin receptors in heavy users' brains, which won't kill you directly, but seratonin is a pretty rad thing to have. If your brain can't process it any more, that completely sucks for you. It is like you get depression all the time.
Of course, this is mostly anecdotal evidence, as I haven't kept up with my friends from college who used ecstasy/cannabis all the time. I graduated and they didn't and then we kind of lost track. They certainly did have good times on drugs, though, and I got to tell them what they had done the next day. Win-win!
I'll bet that if LSD/e was produced legally and subjected to the same standards other drugs are held to, they could be safer than, say, alcohol (though I wouldn't want to share the road with them either). Amsterdam pretty much has managed to survive without outlawing cannabis. Like everything else, it's usually not a problem until it becomes abuse.
And to paraphrase Bill Hicks, if you manage to kill yourself while on marijuana, we didn't need you anyway.
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Huh. I had read that some scientists proved that marijuana wouldn't cause cancer.
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Yea, the marijuana lung cancer thing is debatable, but I would think that it could cause it. You just have to think--how many people smoke weed for more than like 30 years in the same quantities as people smoke cigarettes. I have heard often that it will not cause cancer, but I am very skeptical of that. I have also heard that it does not kill brain cells, but again I am skeptical. I would not be surprised if it did not kill as many brain cells as alcohol, but it probably still does. I have never understood the whole kills brain cells thing, does that even mean anything? I thought like all cells regenerated. When people say that do they know what they are talking about? I can see it like fuck*ng up a persons natural chemical levels for a long period of time but I don't know how it would kill brain cells. Then again, I know very little about biology.
Also, I have smoked a ridiculous amount of pot as I already said and done pretty much every drug there is, but the only times I don't remember what happened are when I took oxycotin and alcohol (not together, although I did take them together, just those are the only two that caused me to forget large chunks of my life. Oh, actually xanax and alcohol did the same, but that is only when mixed.) I will be graduating college in four years with a gpa good enough to get into a decent post-grad program, so whatever that means. To be fair though, me and one other guy are the only people I know that do large amounts of drugs who haven't failed at least a semester or who will graduate in 4 years. He is actually doing it in 3 1/2, while I am doing 4 and a summer, only because I prefer taking 12 hours a semester and 6 in the summer though.
Also, again, LSD is like the safest physical drug there is. However, my friend took over 100 hits in about a years amount of time in high school and hasn't even smoked weed in the last 4 years, ut you can totally tell he took a lot of drugs. He is still really smart and has like a 3.9 gpa in a bio/pre med degree, just you can tell.
I guess what I was kind of trying to say here is that all types of people do drugs. Smart, stupid, responsible and irresponsible. It is just that the stupid and irresponsible ones get the most attention, just as in any group of people, especially ones that the government/media/large amounts of the population are against. To use a shitty example, look at reporting/general view of non-African Americans towards African Americans from slavery to the 1950's, and, to a lesser extent, today. Plus, 90% of the people who get attention because of their drug use do so because of stupid shit the did to get caught/stupid shit the tried to do not to get caught, etc., this just furthers the negative opinion towards all drug users, when it is a fairly small percentage of them (think of all the people doing drugs who don't get caught).
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To my understanding, the situation is this - a cannabis cigaret you have grown and rolled yourself is less carcinogenic than a commercial tobacco cigaret, but not particularly less so than natural tobacco.
I mean, either way you are inhaling burned plant matter into your lungs. Smoke inhalation is not healthy. The difference is that the additives in commercial tobacco add more unpleasantness on top of that.
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As a non-smoker (of anything) and light drinker, I am interested in how marijuana could possibly be considered to have a higher net social cost than anabolic steroids.
Is it possible that the deaths are related to deals gone bad?
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To my understanding, the situation is this - a cannabis cigaret you have grown and rolled yourself is less carcinogenic than a commercial tobacco cigaret, but not particularly less so than natural tobacco.
I mean, either way you are inhaling burned plant matter into your lungs. Smoke inhalation is not healthy. The difference is that the additives in commercial tobacco add more unpleasantness on top of that.
That is why I only smoke Natural American Spirit hand rolled.
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Somewhat recently, a kid (okay, a teenage boy) in my area of town (affluent and not crime-riddled, unlike the rest of the city) took a hit of LSD and stabbed his mother's boyfriend to death in broad daylight on a street in their neighbourhood, and also stabbed his mother, critically wounding her. Apparently the kid had been suffering from depression, which could have significantly influenced his trip and caused it to go horribly wrong, but that is still some scary shit. That kind of thing just does not happen around here, and the entire "community" was shocked.
One of the reasons I stopped smoking weed back in the day is that it caused me to have panic attacks. People who, like me, have preexisting anxiety disorders are vulnerable to having this kind of reaction. And if you think panic attacks suck, think about how terrifying it must be to have one while you're high.
Edited to correct a spelling error.
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There has to be something seriously wrong with someone to begin with if a mere one hit of LSD triggers THAT. That is a psychotic reaction in the extreme.
I find it interesting when people are shocked (SHOCKED I TELL YOU!) that this happens in affluent suburbs. I spent a year in high school at a Jesuit school in a very affluent neighborhood (I was there on a grant thing and had to clean lockers after school to make up the rest of my tuition) and then the next year of high school at a very economically downtrodden magnet school. (Metal detectors and policemen and the whole mess.. it was quite a dichotomy.) From my experience, there were WAY more drugs and ridiculousness at the Private hoity toity place. I suspect this is because these kids could afford them. So yes.. while you could shanked for your shoes at the magnet school, you couldn't saaaay buy acid or cocaine on lunch... both of which I witnessed at the other.
I'm just sayin' is all.
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There has to be something seriously wrong with someone to begin with if a mere one hit of LSD triggers THAT. That is a psychotic reaction in the extreme.
I don't know, it could have been more than a single hit; he may also have been under the influence of other substances. I think he was taking antidepressants, for instance.
I find it interesting when people are shocked (SHOCKED I TELL YOU!) that this happens in affluent suburbs.
Oh, I don't doubt that affluent areas have enormous drug problems. My point was that it was unusual for someone to be murdered in this area of town.
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I don't know, it could have been more than a single hit; he may also have been under the influence of other substances. I think he was taking antidepressants, for instance.
Yeah that was my suspicion exactly is all I am saying. Chemical imbalance or the likes. I mean I'm not arguing that we should all go out and you know.. do a bunch of acid or anything, I am just saying that's really really odd.
Oh, I don't doubt that affluent areas have enormous drug problems. My point was that it was unusual for someone to be murdered in this area of town.
Oh certainly, I was just sort of mulling over the idea. Every time such a thing happens there's always someone at work talking "Oh you'd expect that in the city but not here!" I wasn't implying anything else really. See? This is why I don't get into serious discussions mostly..
I'm gonna.. I'm just gonna back out now.
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so, um, I was under the impression that it was impossible to die from an OD of cannabis-- that to achieve the level which would be death-dealing like Juno, you would have to straight-up inject it in massive quantities.
so is this deaths like "I got really stoned and fell on a knife?"
Dude, you can die from an OD on water. I'm pretty sure anything can kill you in large enough quantities.
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Dude, you can die from an OD on water. I'm pretty sure anything can kill you in large enough quantities.
Most people who do, however, do so because they are incapacitated (or otherwise inebriated) and DROWN before their system even overloads on the stuff.
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Most people who do, however, do so because they are incapacitated (or otherwise inebriated) and DROWN before their system even overloads on the stuff.
True, it's mostly marathon runners and whatnot who OD on water.
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No, no, it's actually possible to break your cells with too much water. I'd CJ it, but I'll leave that to the pros.
WE TALKED ABOUT THIS
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No, no, it's actually possible to break your cells with too much water. I'd CJ it, but I'll leave that to the pros.
WE TALKED ABOUT THIS
Yes.. I know it's possible... but I'm talking about reality and where it actually happens.. jeezus jough.. you are in taunt me mode this morning... serious :P
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...seratonin is a pretty rad thing to have.
I'd like to propose that we establish a new TOUAMBIE category for "Phrases that Beef Could Have Said". The above would be my nominee.
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No, no, it's actually possible to break your cells with too much water. I'd CJ it, but I'll leave that to the pros.
WE TALKED ABOUT THIS
Is it possible to drink too much water? Several comedians found it necessary to comment: Sure, you could drown! But the fact is, in extreme circumstances too much water can kill you, even if all you do is drink it. Kelly Barrett, a 43-year-old pediatric dentist from Littleton, Colorado, died of a condition known as hyponatremia after drinking too much water during the 1998 Chicago marathon. Hyponatremia, AKA water intoxication, occurs when the body's salt and water levels get dangerously out of balance, leading to swelling of the brain and leakage of fluid into the lungs. It can occur when athletes, hikers, etc., sweat heavily, losing both salt and water, but replace only water. Diagnostic signs: dizziness, disorientation, headaches, extreme fatigue, death. Prevention: salty snacks and sports drinks. So pass the taco chips and Gatorade, bubba, and let's get healthy.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020208.html
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yeah, I know it is possible to OD on whatever chemical is in marijuana. but they've done studies, and proved that it is physicially impossible to inhale enough of it at once to achieve this level. the only way to have such a massive dose in your body at the same time is to inject it. which, I mean, people don't do that.
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From what I've read, hyponatremia is further only a risk if you've been working out long or hard enough to damage the muscles beyond a certain point (ie. marathon distances). Running in a half marathon (assuming you had trained for it properly), for example, probably wouldn't be enough to cause much risk no matter how much water you drank.
The reason this was a problem was because the hydration advice was to just drink as much as you could stand to, regardless of thirst. That turns out to be too much if there is significant muscle trauma. I heard currently, they have scales at every water stop in some marathons, and you're supposed to just drink enough to keep yourself at the same weight throughout the race.
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Dude, you can die from an OD on water. I'm pretty sure anything can kill you in large enough quantities.
The thing is that it is basically impossible to get that much marijuana in your system that quickly. It has a ridiculous OD amount and you would pass out/be to stoned to keep smoking/eating/whatever way before you even came close. You could do it, but only if you like had someone there to put some type of marijuana extract in your veins after you have passed out. No normal use will ever make you OD.
I mean I'm not arguing that we should all go out and you know.. do a bunch of acid or anything, I am just saying that's really really odd.
Lame. Anyways, this reminds me of the Bill Hicks joke where he is all like the should put good acid stories on the news, not just man jumps off of tall building trying to fly, but man discovers that we are all connected and that are bodies are just bullshit (or something). Anyways, about people jumping off buildings, he says you fly from the ground. You don't see birds taking the elevators to the tops of buildings and then flying.
There are definately some people who shouldn't do acid or any psychedelic really. I have tripped with one, and it was not fun. Luckily responsibility is something that you do not loose while trippng so I was able to calm him down.
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I recall from an old pharmacology course I did that LSD is one of the few non-addictive recreational drugs out there. I think that should have some bearing on it's legality since addiction is the source of a lot of the problems relating to major drugs. Of course there is also something to be said for regulating a substance that makes you see crazy shit too.
Just for the record from memory weed is addictive but somewhere below the cigarettes level.
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Weed is psychologically addictive but not physically, from what I understand. I did read some blog once were the author thought that weed may be physically addictive, but since it leaves your system so slowly it happens over a period of a month and is not that bad.
All of what I know comes from pro-drug sources, that is why I rarely present anything as fact in arguments of this type. However, anti-drug sources are way more biased in my opinion.
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That is why I only smoke Natural American Spirit hand rolled.
K, you should switch to the machine rolled American Spirits. Have you ever smoked them?, it's insane, the amount of tobacco thats crammed in. Insane.
But it sounds like you should take the step and become a cigar smoker.
(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7241/960335820lfdkc1.jpg)
Join the dark side.
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Yea, I am a college student so I can't really do that. I love the Black box American Spirits though, you should try those. They are called perique, which means they age them in whiskey barrels. It gives it a nice flavour. With the hand rolleds I can smoke for a dollar a day and still have a great cigarette, both of those are pretty important to me.
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yeah, I know it is possible to OD on whatever chemical is in marijuana. but they've done studies, and proved that it is physicially impossible to inhale enough of it at once to achieve this level. the only way to have such a massive dose in your body at the same time is to inject it. which, I mean, people don't do that.
I don't know, back in the day I might have tried, but then my tolerance had just gotten silly for a while.
I'm now at a point where I haven't smoked in a while and it doesn't take much to get me really relaxed. That said, two days and I could be back to being able to smoke 24/7 quite easily. I'm just so not going to let that happen again. I'm too old for it now.