The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => People & Places => Topic started by: jough on September 28, 2006, 09:00:23 pm
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Is Chicago your kind of town?
I'm going to be in the windy city on Tuesday. Not for long, mind you - just for an interview and then I should have a couple hours before I have to fly back to Philly again.
Anyway, if anyone lives in or around Chicago and wants to buy me a (non-alcoholic) drink, we should totally meet up.
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Nobody?
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Perhaps someone does live in Chicago, but they just don't want to meet you.
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Wait a minute, an interview? Like for a job? You can't move to Chicago before you've ever come down to DC for an Ache-con.
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I wish I lived in Chicago. Is that good enough?
Getting A Drink With Jough would be about reason #20 for me to move there.
Reason #19 is Jim Thome.
Reason #21 is Trashspotting Outside Oprah's Place.
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Yeah, for an interview. For a job. In Chicago. Photos tomorrow.
Have to decide soon. D.C. still an option. I should know about that on Thursday. Then... decisions.
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I know people in Chicago (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmcd9/211955196/).
~Paul
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Yup. The kiddo had a doctor's appointment yesterday evening and I don't live near downtown (where I assume Jough's interview was) or near an airport. I didn't want to voice these mealy-mouthed excuses, but there it is. Chicago is a great place, though.
Let me know if you neeid neighborhood ideas or whatnot.
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Jorge: I have been doing some research into Chicago neighbourhoods and housing therein, but I could certainly use suggestions or some insider info, as these sites about Chicago neighbourhoods tend to be run by realtors who may not list some of the more negative aspects of living in such a place as Rogers Park, etc.
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I'm your man on Rogers Park, as I lived there for two years. I'll write something up in a little bit. Let me know what issues might be the most important to you and I'll make sure to touch on those.
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Now hold on one minute. Jough can't just up and move to Chicago. I find the whole concept disturbing. I won't allow it.
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Why can't I just up and move to Chicago?
No, seriously - if you can voice a serious objection I'll add it to the shorter-than-pros "Cons" side of my list.
Jorge: I honestly don't know enough about Chicago to know where I would want to live in it.
Basically if I move there I'll be working right downtown on (in?) the Loop, a couple of blocks from the Sears Tower.
I will be without a car, at least at first, but I may want the option to get one in the future, even if I want to be able to take the CTA or Metra to work.
So, my criteria are pretty slim. I want to live in a decent although not necessarily fancy place, a one bedroom or loft (not so crazy about studios where the kitchen is in the bedroom which is also the living room) and I require air conditioning and heat that I can control - I lived in a place with a radiator that I couldn't shut off and I got sick by leaving the window open all winter just to balance the airflow.
I'd prefer a place with no roach problem or rats. I'd like a dishwasher and fridge. Plumbing that works.
I want to live in a place where I don't have to worry too much about my place being robbed while I'm out.
I think it'll be easier to get around in the city rather than the suburbs, especially since I'll be carless but wanting to check out jazz clubs that may be open after public transportation has ended, so being able to walk home is highly preferred.
I don't mind having to take the El or train to work, so it's not like I need to live near the Loop. I guess I'd like to live at least somewhat near a train or El stop then, though. Maybe not so near that the rent is double that of places four blocks away, though.
Is Logan Square nice? It sounds nice when reading about places on craigslist, but I heard a man was killed there the other day, and apparently that was so rare that it was BIG NEWS. So I'm not too worried.
But do I have other needs of which I'm unaware? I don't know. I'm unaware.
I'm not even sure how much I'll have to budget for rent yet. What percentage of one's monthly salary should you budget for rent? In other words, how do you figure out what kind of a place you can afford? I'm used to bohemian (i.e. ghetto) living, but I'm not so used to it that I'll miss it. I'm looking to move to a nice(r) place.
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When I was trying to move from Norman Ok to Boulder CO, my dad told me to make sure that my rent was 1/4th of my paycheck. I guess this is a good figure.
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I don't think that there are any jazz clubs in Rogers Park, but The Green Mill is a short el ride away (if you're near the el, of course). It's also the quasi-birthplace of the poetry slam, if you're into that sort of thing. The redline (el) runs all night, but the trains get spread out when it's late. Most of the busses don't run at night.
It looks like the best way to get near the Sears Tower from Rogers Park is the Metra Union Pacific North Line. You can map out public transportation trips here: http://tripsweb.rtachicago.com/. I'm a big fan of commuting to work on a train, because you can read and/or listen to you ipod or whatever. It's much more relaxing than driving. Of course, the main transportation concern without a car is how to get to work and how to get groceries. There are some good independent grocery stores, for example, Morse Market and The Devon Market have cheap produce. For more traditional American and/or processed foods, you can look up the websites for Jewel and Dominicks--the two big chains in the Chicago area.
Rogers Park is touted as the third-safest neighborhood in Chicago. Make of that what you will. There is high crime in certain spots. If you see a big blue light on a telephone pole, that marks a police security camera and likely indicates that area is a hub for crime. I never had an apartment broken into and I never felt my family's safety was threatened inside the apartment. The place I lived with my wife and stepdaughter was on the fourth floor--so I figured it wasn't low-hanging fruit if someone was determined to rob our building. I never heard of any theft in anyone else's apartment (in the complexes I lived in), either. A bike was stolen from a storage space at my mom's old place in Edgewater, and the coin boxes on the laundry machines were pryed out at one placed I lived at, but that's really not the same thing. The only crime ever committed against me was having my car window knocked out when I lived in a not as densely populated part of RP. As far as I know, it was part of a string of vandalism and nothing was stolen. You can check the crime states for a specific address, intersection, ward, zip code, or whatever here: http://www.chicagocrime.org/. There were a few homicides in the neighborhood when I lived there. Like I said, the relative safety varies a lot from block to block. My mom and her husband live in a pretty nice part near Loyola University and I'm not in the least bit concerned for their safety. My mom isn't out walking late at night, though, so take that into consideration. For a very pessimistic look at Rogers Park crime and politics, you can look here: http://morsehellhole.blogspot.com/
If/when you get a car, parking will probably be a bitch. The closer to the lake and redline (both on the east end of Rogers Park) you get, the denser the population and thus fewer parking spots. You might want to get a place with private parking when that happens. Alternatively, there are streets with permit-only parking at certain hours, and it's easier to find a place there if you buy a permit. We generally would not be out with the car past a certain time in the evening so that we wouldn't have to park 1/4 or 1/2 mile away from our apartment. The city takes advantage of the parking crisis with archane laws so they can bring in lots of revenue. Rather than setting a standard schedule, they put up temporary signs indicating street cleaning will happen on a given side of the street in two days or so. If you parked far away from your apartment, didn't use your car for a few days and those signs went up, you'd likely be up shit creek. Also, it's inevitable that your car will get nicked up from people parking in a tight spot behind or in front of it.
Most apartments will be old--often with nice hardwood floors and wood trim. I could turn off the heat in all of the places I lived in--one with a wall-mounted thermostat, one with a knob on the radiator, and one only with pliers. Most places don't have central a/c, so you'll have to get a window unit--especially if you live on a higher floor. Rent is pretty affordable compared to other northside neighborhoods. We negotiated our rent down to $855 for a two bedroom unit.
Now, the good stuff. Rogers Park is the most diverse neighborhood in Chicago, and supposedly one of the most diverse neighborhoods in the country. This affects you how? Well, for one thing, a variety of ethnic foods offered in grocery stores. Next, great restaurants. Lots of Indian places on Devon, the Ethiopian Diamond (my favorite place) neaby in Edgewater, taquerias, J.B. Alberto's pizza, etc. As far as open space, there is the lake on the east side (totally makes up for not having a yard if you take advantage of it) and Warren Park on the west side.
I don't know much about Logan Square other than that I know people who live there and like it. You could probably get to work faster if you lived there. Let me know if you're coming to town again and I'll see if I can show you around.
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I remember reading somewhere that these days most people spend closer to 1/3 of their income on rent. But $855 for two bedrooms sounds like a bargain. Maybe you should move to Chicago after all.
I have no real objections except that it disturbs my picture of the universe where Jough is right up there in Philadelphia, just a train ride away. Not that I have ever done anything about this. Seriously, Chicago seems like a great city, except for the weather. I interviewed for a job there once myself and the only real problem seemed to be WINTER.
But you will be moving away from all your friends. Those people with the inflatable indoor pool, and all. You seem to know a lot of fun people. Aren't you going to be lonely?
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But $855 for two bedrooms sounds like a bargain.
Sweet merciful crap! I've never found a one bedroom for under $1,100. Damn.
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I had a one bedroom in DC when I first moved here for about 900 dollars. But that was probably before Cort was born.
You know the other thing I remember about Chicago now that I think about it is that the kind of apartment you get for that price is really, really nice. Like Jorge says, old and full of lots of nice wood. And the public transit is really good - a car is probably not worth the bother, which saves you a lot of money.
Hmm, I would almost be getting jealous, if it weren't for the WINTER.
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How to Transport Groceries Without a Car (http://www.stacksandstacks.com/html/8452_jumbo-shopping-cart-folding-grocery-cart.htm)
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Thanks Jorge for the info. I only mentioned Rogers Park because I see a LOT of places for rent there via the Chicago craigslist and then one of the neighbourhood guides pretty much said "do not move there if you're a white person" so I was kind of cancelling it out in my head.
I probably don't want to move anywhere I can't walk around in at night, since I tend to do a lot of walking at night. Maybe there is no unsafe place in Chicago for a hulking giant of a man who doesn't feel that a handgun nestled in the small of his back is a problem, but at the same time, I don't want to have to shoot anyone either.
If I take the Chicago job I'd certainly have to come up there to look at places for a couple of days beforehand, probably lining up a lot of places to look at in a day or two and then deciding quickly where to move. If you could help me narrow down the list by letting me know that I definitely wouldn't want to move to a particular place, that would be very helpful.
Being able to walk to jazz clubs is more of a "would be nice" than essential.
Chicago is a HUGE city, with 70+ distinct neighbourhoods all with their own names and local flavour.
1/4th to 1/3rd salary is a good range, I guess. I'll still be getting contract and other residual income for a while, so I'm hoping to be able to save up most of my salary for a bit no matter where I work. It seems that D.C. is way more expensive to live in than either Chicago or Philly.
Chicago is supposed to have a 15% higher cost of living than Philadelphia, but rents (at least on Craigslist and the Chicago Reader) seem to be about the same as Philly. Maybe everything else is more expensive. That 9% sales tax sounds brutal. I may have to just buy everything online - you know, like I do now.
Choop, I thought about those old lady shopping cart things, but I am not sure that my dignity has sunk that low. Or does everyone who lives in the city use those?
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I didn't use one, but that's only because I didn't have one. I just made more frequent trips to the grocery. European style, or something.
Oh, and there is a handgun ban in Chicago.
The high COL may have something to do with gas prices, were are supposedly the highest in the continental 48--illinois tax + cook county tax + city tax. I doubt cigarettes are factored into it, but those run for $7/pack. If you buy neither of these items then it's probably just the sales tax.
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Handgun ban? So only criminals have them? Wonderful.
Anyway, I will assume that Chicago is not the wild west and that everyone is not packing. I just keep hearing about how dangerous certain neighbourhoods are, and I don't know what those places are, so I'm still learning the city.
I won't drive and don't smoke, so neither of those things are an issue.
I don't know if there's a city wage tax like here in Philly, but it's pretty steep in Philly so that would probably balance out.
European style works for me. Also, home delivery of groceries looks like an option in Chicago from Peapod.com, at least for commodity items like ketchup and cans of tuna and stuff. I'd probably want to select my own meats and veggies.
I've been looking for a 1br that's sub-$1000/month on craigslist, and there seems to be a lot of difference in rent depending on neighbourhood (which is obvious, of course) but then I don't know if I'm just seeing a deal in a decent neighbourhood or seeing highway robbery in a bad one.
I'm going to have to see places, ask people about the neighbourhood, etc.
Every ad I see seems to mention "no security deposit!" which is helpful (means less money upfront to move) and some places seem to include utilities like electric, which sounds too good to be true so I'm wondering if there's a catch with those places, like that I only get so much electricity per month or something awful like that.
I'm going to have to look into high speed internet providers too, but being a big city I doubt that'll be a problem.
Otherwise what else am I missing? Is there anything I'd have to worry about that I haven't mentioned?
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Otherwise what else am I missing? Is there anything I'd have to worry about that I haven't mentioned?
Scrapple! (http://touamb.com/index.php/topic,3174.msg76438.html#msg76438)
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Other than scrapple and cheese steaks, I mean. Just things to worry about for moving to a new city in general. I'm making a list.
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I just wanted to take this oppurtunity to say that I live in the "ghetto" (norman doesn't have a ghetto, just shitty apartment complexes around town) of Norman, about .5 miles away from OU. My rent is 440 for a two bedroom split with a friend (I pay 220 if this di not make sence). Last year I lived in a really, really nice 4 bedroom house and our rent was 365 each. The only problem? It is in Oklahoma.
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Things to worry about: You don't know anyone. You get home from work the first day, and the first week, and the first month, and you want to go out, and there is no one to call. And on the weekend. And when you need someone to do you a simple favor like, I don't know, feed the cat while you are away. There is no one out there. It can be a pretty awful feeling. Frankly I don't have that huge a social life - most of my really good friends live far away, due to all the moving to new cities I've done - but still that is the part of moving to a new city that I would not want to go through again.
Also, if you have a regular doctor, dentist, etc., you have to find all new ones. With no one to ask for a recommendation. You might want to do some research before you have an emergency.
On the other hand, when you move to a new city, you come home from work or it's the weekend and you want to go out and do something - you don't look in the paper and whine that you've done all that stuff. Which is the point I've gotten to now in DC. It would take a person a long time to get bored in Chicago, I think (except of course for the times you are snowed in and can't leave the house).
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some places seem to include utilities like electric, which sounds too good to be true so I'm wondering if there's a catch with those places, like that I only get so much electricity per month or something awful like that.
My coworker lives in an all-utilities-included building and once the landlord called and said he'd raise the rent if they didn't ease up on the a/c. Apparently they kept their appartment at like 65 degrees all year. So basically the lease probably has some clause in it for "excessive usage" much the same way that ISPs do.
And wombat, have you ever been to the Ellipse Art Center? They change exhibits pretty frequently. Just recently there was art made from trash. Last summer they had a playable 9-hole mini-golf course designed by local artists to mimic local landmarks. My favorite was the only place you can fill up your tank and your soul, the church/gas station.
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I hardly go out with friends now so any bit of socialising would be an increase.
I hope to make some new friends there. At first I'm probably going to be really busy with work and moving in and exploring the city and all. I'll have hundreds of miles (counting up and down city blocks) of new territory to walk in and around, too. Chicago has like 60 parks in the city. The lake has a nice walking path that sounds awesome.
I think I'm going to just avoid places with utilities included (other than heat/gas, which is common just about everywhere, and maybe water, which would be fine). Otherwise I'd rather get my own electric bill and internet access. A friend of mine is in Antwerp now and has internet as part of his rent, but it sucks and he's stuck with it.
I'm hoping to make this work.
Also, wombat, wouldn't those same problems also be problems in D.C.? Of course, I know people in D.C. So maybe not so much.
Hm.
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Yeah, you know people in DC, and you'd be only a train ride away from the people you know now. It's much less drastic.
But I am prejudiced. I can't argue that DC is a better city than Chicago. I just always assumed that someday I'd be able to get on the train and come up there to Philly and, I don't know, slap you upside the head or have dinner or something. Your moving to Chicago discombobulates my picture of the world and my imaginary friends in it.
But also aren't you choosing between jobs, too? Presumably that has to enter into it.
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man, 1000$ a month?
I am so glad that I live in a dormitory still. This figure alone has made me stop fantasizing about truly Living on my Own.
of course, I could live my life beat-poet style, living with an everlasting series of amorous sluts ladies.
And then die alone/of a drug overdose.
Jough, I would come visit you! I have 2 friends in Chicago anyway (at U Chicago), so I could kill a variety of fowl with one stone.
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Inev, St. Louis housing is super cheap (for an actual city), so if you end up living there you won't have to worry so much about the cost.
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Inev: unless you've been hiding the fact that you're a sexy blonde girl, your visiting me is not a plus.
Having said that, if I'm in the city and you come to visit your friends I would be up for hanging out with you a little. But you can't like, get into bars and stuff, can you?
Womby, I understand what you're saying, but it's not like we hang out, and hanging with you is not really near the top of my list.
Yes, the jobs are somewhat different but not that different. They're comparable. The one I'd be working on a single monolithic huge web site, and the other one I'd be working on a single monolithic huge web site... at first. Then I'd probably move on to another huge monolithic web site. I like huge monolithic web sites, though.
Wherever I go I'll probably treat the job like a long term contract at first, not get too attached, work hard, do my job, and try to keep it all-business. Not that I'm not a friendly man of the people. ;)
Anyway, I think I have made my decision based on the many factors involved. I hoped to make a decision by tomorrow anyway, and I will still give myself the weekend to let it sink in before I make my calls on Monday.
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What, you don't think you should make major life decisions because of your place in my fantasy life? Damn. Well, you better take a lot more nice pictures of Chicago then. Don't forget to go the zoos and the aquarium.
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I'm not a big fan of animals, but it looks like they have a nice aquarium, so maybe I'll check that out... someday.
I am more into architecture and bridges and stuff. Anything with lots of steel and concrete. Trees and animals - not so much.
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Jough-- yes, that is what I was suggesting. I would come visit my friends, and do a mini-visit where I said Hi to you, and shook your hand, etc.
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Well there is certainly enough architecture in Chicago to keep a person busy. But I have a vague recollection that they have nice old buildings at the Lincoln Park zoo. Of the brick kind, not steel and concrete, though.
But I'm warning you - in my experience, scrapple freezes very poorly.
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Man, even just thinking about those logistics of living in Philly and moving to Chicago give me hives. Now that I live in a town with no stoplights and 8 miles of paved roads I cannot imagine living in the city again.
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Chicago is a great town if you look past the broiling summers, the soul-freezing winters, the crime, the corrupt and brutal police force, the noise, the filth, the terrible roads, the racism, poverty and gangs, and the vast groaning herds of sweaty tourists that descend on the city during the aforementioned summers. Seriously, I have always found it awesome in every other way.
No shit about those summers though. Last time I was there it was early August, and we went to the Shedd Aquarium, and there were so many people pouring off heat inside that air-conditioned building that all the tank windows fogged up and nobody could see the giraffe. Fuck*ng brutal.
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Yeah, summers in Philly are brutal too, and we don't have a lake to keep things cool.
Philly also has its share of corrupt cops, filth, crime, and sweaty tourists.
If I wanted to avoid the tourists I'd move to Omaha.
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How to Transport Groceries Without a Car (http://www.stacksandstacks.com/html/8452_jumbo-shopping-cart-folding-grocery-cart.htm)
Twelve Dollars Apiece (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmcd9/264652904/)
~Paul