The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: Drygioni on November 19, 2006, 07:45:58 pm
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Right, well the weekends are generally pretty slow so maybe this could help make the 'board a little more active just before we all go back to the old Day In Day Out.
Here's what we do:
Someone posts a band/solo musician that they are interested in. Anyone who can should respond by recommending them the first/next album they should buy by this band.
Feel free to ask recommendations all you want. There are no ratios here.
To kick things off: Can anyone recommend a 'beginner's' Tom Waits album?
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Rain Dogs.
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Tom Waits: "Closing Time". I have to admit it's the only one of his I like because it sounds very little like his later stuff.
And how about, a Smiths album that's not "Meat is Murder" or "The Queen is Dead"
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And how about, a Smiths album that's not "Meat is Murder" or "The Queen is Dead"
Easy-weasy. Their eponymous debut should set you up nicely.
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See, I'd say "Small Change" insofaras... it is reasonably conventional in form and involves perhaps his most classic "storytelling" and yet... the experimental nature is bubbling up under the surface in little choices within those blues-jazz standards.
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Someone who has never listened to Tom Waits before should start with Rain Dogs.
The Smiths other than those two - gotta go with Louder Than Bombs.
Or for more of an early sampler-feel - Hatful of Hollow or The World Won't Listen (each released only in the U.S. and U.K. respectively).
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Let us theoretically posit that I have... a friend... who has just realized the immense error of her ways in not listening to the Talking Heads at length previously. Which album would be a good place to start? For this... friend. Yeah.
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I would say Little Creatures. But this is mainly because I have been listening to it lately and it reminded me of how good the Talking Heads are. I haven't made, like, a scientific study of which is their best album or anything.
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Remain in Light is probably the best for someone who's not heard much Talking Heads before, i.e. this friend of yours. It's very accessible but definitely a good showcase of what makes them so great.
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For the Smiths I would reccomend their last album, Strangeways, Here We Come. For the Talking Heads I would go with any of their first 4 except Fear of Music (77, more songs about buidings and food or Remain in light). With the Talking Heads 77 and More Songs are alot different than Fear of Music, Remain in Light and Speaking in Tongues, so you should definately get one of the first two and Remain in Light. This in no way means that Fear of Music is a bad record(probably my favorite, definately my favorite song: Life During Wartime). For Tom Waits I could not recommend Swordgiraffetrombones enough, especially as a new fan, but Rain Dogs and Heart of a Saturday night should do you pretty well also.
The Pogues: I have If I should Fall From Grace... and Rum Sodomy and Lash (I believe at someone on this boards advice). I love Rum Sodomy and Lash, but don't like if I should Fall From Grace that much. Are there any others more like Rum Sodomy...? Also, the guy in the Pogues ( i am not going to look up his name now but sometimes I know it) was in some punk bands before the pogues, any suggestions on that?
Also, a friend real big into the Fall (great band, start with This Nations Saving Grace, if you want) recommended that I listen to Public Image LTD. I have no idea who they are.
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I have some questions about introductory albums. What would you recommend for someone who likes the following artists but isn't quite sure which albums to buy first? Iron & Wine, Cat Power, Sufjan Stevens.
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Personally, my introduction to the Talking Heads was a tape with Fear of Music on one side and More Songs About Buildings and Food on the other. I've been hooked ever since.
It was my workout tape the first time I ever lifted weights consistently. Whodathot?
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linnea-- for Sufjan, i would definitely suggest "Come on! Feel the Illinoise"
PIL's "Metal Box" is supposed to be wonderful. They're John Lydon's band after the Pistols broke up.
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[redacted for fear of impending Religious War]
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I would NOT recommend Strangeways to someone as their first Smiths album. It's not exactly representative of the band, and has the distinction of being their weakest album.
Anyway, Stevens's "Come On Feel the Illinoise" is pretty good. I started listening to it when I started making a Chicago-themed playlist before I first came to interview here (you're all well-aware how much of a dork I am by this time, I'm sure).
It's hard to recommend a single Talking Heads album, so I'd suggest Sand in the Vaseline which is a 2-disc best of.
Also, R.E.M. - start with Automatic For the People - you'll already know half the songs on it and you'll fall in love with the other half. Then go listen to Life's Rich Pageant or Murmur.
Radiohead: OK Computer is the way to go.
Elvis Costello - My Aim is True - start at the beginning.
Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited
John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
Beck - Midnite Vultures
The Violent Femmes - Why Do Birds Sing?
Van Morrison - Moondance
Rolling Stones - Sticky Fingers
Lou Reed - Transformer
The Velvet Underground - Loaded
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Jough, about the Lou Reed, how about Rock and Roll Music?
Just acquired Giant Steps by Coltrane, pretty fuckin' awesome and I don't really even like jazz, I just like Coltrane (and Miles when Coltrane plays with him).
I just acquired Loaded, but VU grows on my slowly.
~Paul
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Loaded? Any Violent Femmes album that isn't the first one? what? what?
I would say the first album is the best in both cases. But, you know, they're all good.
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Speaking of Elvis Costello: I only have a greatest hits collection, which I really like, but for some reason it never prompted me to buy any others. Should I? I guess partly my hesitation is that I have gotten kind of creeped out by him writing songs with Burt Bachrach and that sort of thing so I haven't thought about it.
Also, I think I should buy a Pogues album. Someone yell at me till I do it, please?
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Loaded? Any Violent Femmes album that isn't the first one? what? what?
I would say the first album is the best in both cases. But, you know, they're all good.
I feel like I just slipped into that KitH sketch about The Doors.
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Linnea mentioned Iron & Wine. Hard to go wrong with any of his material, really, though if I had to pick one for you to get first I'd say "Our Endless Numbered Days."
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The Pogues: I have If I should Fall From Grace... and Rum Sodomy and Lash (I believe at someone on this boards advice). I love Rum Sodomy and Lash, but don't like if I should Fall From Grace that much. Are there any others more like Rum Sodomy...? Also, the guy in the Pogues ( i am not going to look up his name now but sometimes I know it) was in some punk bands before the pogues, any suggestions on that?
As the Pogues are my favourite band and Shane MacGowan my approximate idol, I was hoping some would ask about them.
The big thing about the Pogues is that each of their albums don't necessarily overlap with their follow up or preceding album. The best I can recommend you is Red Roses For Me, because Peace and Love (the next after If I Should Fall From Grace...) continues the eclectic mix started on If I Should Fall From Grace. Red Roses For Me is definitely their most Irish-folky mixed with punky, and as such should please an avid fan of the old Rum, Sodomy and the Lash.
As for MacGowan's other bands beforehand: The Nipple Erectors/The Nips. Also, Shane MacGowan and the Popes are supposed to be none too bad but I've never had the pleasure of listening to them much. As an aside: I'm seeing the motherfuck*ng Pogues in a little under a fuck*ng month! Fuck yes!
My one penny on the Talking Heads situation: It all depends. Between 77 and Little Creatures (don't bother with Naked) you will get some very different albums. While I love every single one for it's different reasons, I'd definitely go for 77 to start with. It's clever, arty pop that I think is pretty accessible; not necessarily representative of their oeuvre in general, but a good lead in.
Also, we are getting a LOT of disagreement on the Smiths. I'd say if you already have Meat Is Murder, it's hard to go wrong in picking another. Louder than Bombs I think has some terrible chaff but is otherwise excellent, same with Strangeways... come to think of it, pretty much everything they wrote.
But, I recommend their debut if only because it has the MOTHERfuck*ng SUBLIME Reel Around the Fountain.
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Speaking of Elvis Costello: I only have a greatest hits collection, which I really like, but for some reason it never prompted me to buy any others. Should I? I guess partly my hesitation is that I have gotten kind of creeped out by him writing songs with Burt Bachrach and that sort of thing so I haven't thought about it.
Also, I think I should buy a Pogues album. Someone yell at me till I do it, please?
The last post got a bit full, so I'll continue with things here. Get Rum, Sodomy and the Lash for starters, and If I Should Fall From Grace With God as a follow up. You are bound by physics to like one or the other, or both. YELL YELL YELL.
Also, a friend real big into the Fall (great band, start with This Nations Saving Grace, if you want) recommended that I listen to Public Image LTD. I have no idea who they are.
Know the Sex Pistols? Johnny 'Moron' Rotten went on to do this, with such other musical greats as Jah Wobble. Not that the aforementioned Rotten is by any stretch of the imagination a musical great. Anyway, they were basically a pretty funky dub/avant garde etc. band. I think. I never enjoyed them too much, but I think you might, afraid I can't recommend an album. It's worth getting at least one song just to hear how fuck*ng great Mr Wobble's bass tone is. It's impossibly deep and very funky.
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Elvis Costello: Go with This Year's Model.
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Wombat:movies::CortJstr:music
The only two Costello songs I've ever heard are the one from Austin Powers 2 and Monkey to a Man. Is the latter at all representative of his other work?
I'm afraid that it's going to be like The Decemberists, where I heard July, July! and liked it then found out the hard way that the rest of their songs are basically boredom concentrated and distilled into digital form.
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Alright, time to drop the proverbial bomb. I know you guys here are absolutely in love with them, but I don't own any of TMBG's stuff. This is mostly on account of all their songs I've heard sounding like shit, but I know you guys have good taste so I'm wondering if I'm missing something.
Any recommendations?
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If you really want a TMBG sampler, I would advise picking up one of the greatest-hits/retrospective album; I believe I have The User's Guide To They Might Be Giants. which is a broad-focus retrospective. The thing about TMBG is that they have a wide range of sounds over their career, so it is entirely possible you will like some albums and hate others. Get a good retrospective and consider picking up the albums that feature tracks you like.
More specifically: which TMBG songs have you heard, and which did you hate?
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More specifically: which TMBG songs have you heard, and which did you hate?
Most of them have come in from the radio and other miscellaneous sources, and I'd be hard pressed to give you names... do they have hits? It's probably one of those. Also, does the Malcolm in the Middle theme tune count? Because to my ears, it's really fuck*ng awful; as you've mentioned, though, it's probably not a song that defines them as a whole.
Sorry I can't be more specific! I do apologise. I might be a hopeless case here.
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Wombat:movies::CortJstr:music
Oh, surely not.
Judy, as for TMBG, I like them, but I think that this is very much a question on which reasonable people can differ. They could just not be your sort of thing. There are moods in which they are the very last thing I would listen to so I can understand.
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Judy, do you like any of the following:
Don't Let's Start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuCfnQiiyMU
Birdhouse in Your Soul: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoXiOQIZ_Sw
Doctor Worm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKoZvy1Km2U
Exquisite Dead Guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swEQ6nG4GbA
Experimental Film: http://www.homestarrunner.com/expfilm.html
That's a sampling from a few different albums. If you like none of them then I say it's time to give up.
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I feel like I just slipped into that KitH sketch about The Doors.
"Greatest hits records are for housewives... and little girls."
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Judy - "Mammal" by TMBG is on my mixdisc - did you hate that?
I actually think that's a pretty representative song, although others may disagree. Because a big part of their thing is that they write clever songs about topics that no one else writes songs about. If that seems annoying rather than amusing then they just aren't for you.
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I personally like "Dial-a-Song: 20 years of They Might Be Giants." That was my introduction to them, and, it can never be beaten.
mostly because it reminds me of a precious time, back before my friends all started listening to "serious" music and got sticks up their asses.
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Cort - I have an odd fascination with Birdhouse In Your Soul and Dr Worm; seems like something that will grow on me! The others were similar but I didn't enjoy them so much. Perhaps the videos won me over by comparison to my other listens? They seem like very interesting guys with interesting ideas, and the videos helped me get into them a bit more than a cold radio listen.
Wombat - It seemed okay if a bit self-consciously weird at first, but it's actually none too bad going back to it. It does seem a lot like what I perceive them to be: a bit oddball but basically fun, if you enjoy them.
Seriously though, thanks for the links Cort. If I liked those two songs, what album should I be after? Really, you're all being very helpful about this. Cans for all.
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Do you know who told me? JIM fuck*ng MORRISON TOLD ME!
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Hmm. Birdhouse and Dr. Worm are pretty far apart chronologically. So I guess your best bet would be one of the two compilations.
A User's Guide to They Might Be Giants is 29 tracks on one disc and runs about 12USD. It's all studio songs with a couple of B-sides. It was aimed at kids following the success of their children's album. There's no new material on here at all.
Dial-A-Song: 20 Years of They Might Be Giants is 52 tracks on two discs and runs about 28USD. There's one previously unreleased live track featuring the crowd-favorite Famous Drummer Phone Tree* as well as their themes for Malcom in the Middle and Austin Powers 2. There's also a little book with lyrics and a piece by Sarah Vowell. It was released basically because the band had been around for 20 years and people would buy it. Aside from that one live track nothing on here was new.
I would say it depends on how much you want to put down for one album and how much of their catalog you think you might buy in the future. Dial-A-Song is really redundant if you have all their studio albums. But then these guys are super prolific. I have over 400 official mp3's of theirs and I stopped really following them about 3 years ago.
What I want to know is why they've never released the theme from The Daily Show.
*For any Stevie Wonder song from 1982 until now, press or say 7
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Alright, time to drop the proverbial bomb. I know you guys here are absolutely in love with them, but I don't own any of TMBG's stuff. This is mostly on account of all their songs I've heard sounding like shit, but I know you guys have good taste so I'm wondering if I'm missing something.
You mean i'm not the only one here who doesn't like TMBG?
~Paul
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You mean i'm not the only one here who doesn't like TMBG?
~Paul
Lets all come out of the woodwork.
As for Costello, I consider his first two albums (My Aim is True, This Years Model) as must owns.
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I don't know much about PIL, but I know their best song is "Rise."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzNjmIWbns4
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I like TMBG, Dottie.
Like.
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Introductory Instrumental Zappa album: Hot Rats, then maybe Sleep Dirt or Burnt Weeny Sandwich
Introductory Funny Zappa album(s): Joe's Garage, Acts I - III, then maybe Just Another Band From LA, Live in New York orLive at the Fillmore.
Introductory Guitar God Zappa album: Shut up and Play Your Guitar, then maybe the rest of that series.
Introductory Grateful Dead album: Europe '72, then maybe Reckoning.
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See, I'd say that the Unified Introductory Zappa Theory would involve handing someone "Joe's Garage".
It's both "serious" and "funny", has a narrative through-line to carry a new listener...
And "Watermelon in Easter Hay" is pretty much the most beautiful guitar solo ever.
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I have never been able to listen to any Zappa track that wasn't "my guitar wants to kill your mamma."
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Zappa, after you've heard Hot Rats, I gotta go with Apostrophe. I don't remember why, though, been awhile since I heard it.
Also, one could do worse than to be introduced to the jazz genre with Dave Brubeck's Take Five.
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I learned recently from a friend that that song is called "Take Five." I feel like this makes my life a little more complete.
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I once heard the strangest, most literal covers of "Take Five" ever...
There was actually a chorus of female back-up singers, singing "Take Fiiiiiiiiiiiiive, take fiiiiiiiiiiiive".
I really thought it was a joke.
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See, I'd say that the Unified Introductory Zappa Theory would involve handing someone "Joe's Garage".
It's both "serious" and "funny", has a narrative through-line to carry a new listener...
And "Watermelon in Easter Hay" is pretty much the most beautiful guitar solo ever.
I can't disagree with anything you've said.
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I can't disagree with anything you've said.
Absolutely. I suspect it was that track in particular that made me want to play guitar. I listened to that album far too much as a child.
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I suspect it was that track in particular that made me want to play guitar.
Interestingly, one of my dream projects (if I'm ever successful in the entertainment industry) revolves around the Zappa family's request that "Watermelon in Easter Hay" never be covered. An anthology of three short films about the difficulty of making it in the arts, broken up and bookended by four smaller scenes concerning two directors having lunch at a cheap diner, scheming over how to steal and use the song and use it in a very commerical project.
I also wrote a play in high school that was heavily influenced by a combination of "Joe's Garage" and an un-nuanced teenage interpretation of the works of Kurt Vonnegut. Happily, all traces of this play are long destroyed.
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Oh whoops, I meant Time Out. Time Out is the Brubeck album with Take Five. The entire album is cool jazz in non-standard time signatures, hence Take Five being in 5/4. That clever jew.
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I also wrote a play in high school that was heavily influenced by a combination of "Joe's Garage" and an un-nuanced teenage interpretation of the works of Kurt Vonnegut. Happily, all traces of this play are long destroyed.
A little green rosetta er, can of Dr. Pepper for this.
Also, a tiny little chip of ice nine.
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I'm really looking to get into Audioslave. Any recommendations?
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My uncle Phil introduced me to the Mothers at the Fillmore East album when I was in high school, along with the double CD of Apostrophe' and Overnight Sensation.
Since then I've been looking for a camarillo brillo.
Speaking of that song, there's a line "she had grey-green skin, a doll with a pin" but I always thought it was "a dog with a fin" and to this day I like that image better.
"Oh, it's a, it's a shitzu, isn't it? I, I dig the fin."
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I'm really looking to get into Audioslave. Any recommendations?
Is this a joke? I can't tell. They only have three albums, one of which just came out and I haven't heard yet. Of the other two, I like the first one better (the one with "Like a Stone" on it).
They sound pretty much exactly like Rage Against the Machine if Chris Cornell sang for them instead of Zach de la Rocha. No surprises.
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Is this a joke? I can't tell. They only have three albums, one of which just came out and I haven't heard yet. Of the other two, I like the first one better (the one with "Like a Stone" on it).
They sound pretty much exactly like Rage Against the Machine if Chris Cornell sang for them instead of Zach de la Rocha. No surprises.
No surprises, but Cornell's voice is always worth it, and Zach was getting kind of boring with Rage. That said, Cornell is in my mind better doing other stuff. Even so, I agree the first album's the best, the third second best and the middle one not as good.
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Yeah I was just joking, actually. I'd been under the impression they only released one album; I've supplemented whatever time I used to spend keeping up with mainstream music with afternoons of Quantum Leap reruns in HD.
I don't mean to diss on Chris Cornell though. His songwriting's become kinda vacuous, but that boy has chops. Yes I'm an 80 year old black man from the South; I can say that people "have chops."
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I'm really looking to get into Audioslave. Any recommendations?
Dont.
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I'm really looking to get into Audioslave. Any recommendations?
Do yourself a favor and get Badmotorfinger instead. That's my Introductory Soundgarden Album, if anyone asks.
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Yeah, instead of Audioslave, you're better off listening to Soundgarden's Superunknown and Rage Against The Machine's Evil Empire simultaneously.
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Badmotorfinger.
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I've got a good one here, and it's a doozy.
Born to Run or Born in the USA?
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Born to Run or Born in the USA?
Wombat says, predictably, why not both?
But if you put a gun to my head - Born to Run, definitely.
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Wombat says, predictably, why not both?
But if you put a gun to my head - Born to Run, definitely.
Remember when I said Wombat:movies::CortJstr:music? This is why. I didn't know these were different albums. I also routinely mix up Bon Jovi and Bruce Springsteen.
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I also routinely mix up Bon Jovi and Bruce Springsteen.
Sir, though your confusion is understandable, I still demand my sweet, sweet satisfaction.
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Born to be Wild
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I also routinely mix up Bon Jovi and Bruce Springsteen.
Excuse me while I fall on the floor weeping and rending my garments. You poor child.
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Remember when I said Wombat:movies::CortJstr:music? This is why. I didn't know these were different albums. I also routinely mix up Bon Jovi and Bruce Springsteen.
I do that with Bon Jovi and Bryan Adams fairly regularly, but I only tend to have about so much exposure to either. Thank god.
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Born to Run or Born in the USA?
It is as if you are asking me to choose between two children...
Two children who conspired to murder my wife of thirty years and myself as well, though my life was saved by a hero police dog, leaving me with the empty life of a widower, damned to the knowledge that the fruits of my loins killed the love of my life and are now being sexually assaulted by white supremisists in a jail somewhere while I... eat Swanson dinners alone until death has the good humour to take me as well.
Would I rather die by a stray bullet from a gang war I had nothing to do with or would I rather walk into an open manhole and die in a way that is at-least funny?
Hm.
I'm gonna have to go "Born in the USA" because... they're both incredibly terrible songs but at least "Born in the USA" was so poorly constructed that it became a rallying call for the exact opposite of what it was trying to say.
If there are style points in college football, there must be style points in musical failure.
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That is eloquent, LFM, but I think Judy means a choice between the two entire albums, not just the songs of those titles. Not that one expects that this will increase your enthusiasm for either.
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Born To Run, but Judy, why the interest in Bruce Springsteen?
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I swear, Greetings from Ashbury Park NJ or The Wild The Innocent and the E Street Shuffle are better Springsteen albums than either of those, but Born to Run is definitely third.
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Don't hate on Springsteen! Please guys and gals, I can compromise on many things but this is not one of those things.
Rest assured he won't be appearing on the next mixdisc, however.
Keith, Paul and Wombat get cans for recommendations.
The hell, saying Springsteen sucks is recommendation too, so cans for everyone I guess.
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Cans for some, tiny American flags for others!
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I just... I just...
I don't know if I will ever understand "The Boss." I just do not get him. I know I have said this about many other well-loved artists on this board, so... yes.
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His first three albums seem to me to reflect a post 60's hangover poor youth, with mystic and street knowledge. Straight fuck*ng rock and roll the American way. Not in the chevy truck way, but the dylan/beat/woody guthrie tradition. The first two show the view of him and his peers, the third (Born to Run) romaticizes it. After that he becomes more of a throwback type guy. It is okay, but just not the same. If you can, you owe it to yourself to check out these songs, off Born to Run, The Wild the Innocent and the E-Street Shuffle, and Greetings from Ashbury Park:
blinded By the Light
Lost in the Flood
It's Hard to be a Saint in the City
The E-Street Shuffle
Rosalita (Come Out Tonight)
Meeting Across the River
Jungleland
Born to Run
If you already have then you can bash on Springsteen all you want. Also, the difference between Springsteen and Mellencamp is pretty huge, at least in my opinion.
Edit: Basically what I am trying ot say is that alot of people in my generation judge Springsteen on the 80's part of his career (the most commonly played on like radio and stuff), but the may like the early part.
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Also, the difference between Springsteen and Mellencamp is pretty huge, at least in my opinion.
Skinda like the difference between the Beatles and the Monkees.
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speaking of comparing things to the beatles...
lets say I had never listened to any Rolling Stones other than what was played on the radio. maybe because my parents inexplicably didn't like them, and so I was not really exposed to them as a child. What album(s) should I purchase/download? I have "Their Satanic Majesties Request" and "Exile on Main St." But I haven't really listened to either.
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The main difference between John Cougar-Mellancamp-Anderson-Rodham-Burton-Bouvier-Twirwilliger-McClure and Bruce Springsteen is that...
You make fun of John Cougar-Mellancamp-Tinker-Evers-Chance-Ballistic-Ecks-Sever by making fun of his ludicriously changing name (you could also do this in the reverse by only refering to him as John and then later only as Juh) whereas...
You make fun of Bruce Springsteen by positing that he isn't from the mean streets of coastal Jersey at all and, rather, is a Connecticut blueblood with an MBA from Yale... the head of Skull and Bones for three semesters... and only took on the persona of "Bruce Springsteen" as a bet with one of his Skull Brothers as toward who could successfully create the more cloyingly fake "working man" rock star persona.
The endgame is that he and Billy Joel were actually "Bartholomew Standish the Third" and "William Adams Johnstone" and when they are not on tour, they have money fights on their yachts and punch their butlers in the neck just to hear them cry.
"More quail eggs, William?"
"Are you sure the quails were... abused enough? The eggs just aren't good unless they're... abused."
"I hire the best animal crueltists in the Western Hemisphere, I'll have you know!"
"As long as you aren't punching them yourself like a COMMONER!"
(both laugh)
"Oh, you are but the living end, William!"
"I do try, Bartholomew, I do try."
Sort of a "My Fair Lady" meets "Bob Roberts" kinda dealy-wealy.
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Whichever Rolling Stones album has "Beast of Burden" on it... get that.
Some Rolling Stones is fine... I tend to find them their most interesting when they're going for the whole "sincere ballad with rock edges" thing like Wild hosss or Angie or whathaveyou. The rest all just sort of sounds like... eh... standard blues-rock whatever kinda stuff.
I've often held in my backpocket the idea that... if I ever need a random pop culture riff for a story, I'd want to have one character put forth the theory that if your parents were into the Beatles, you're into Guns N Roses and if your parents were into the Rolling Stones, you're into Bon Jovi and...
If you like Def Leppard, your parents were into the fuck*ng Monkees.
I guess I'd have to find my inner late-eighties period comedy, though, to get her done.
(By the by, when will someone do a period piece about periods? I surely wouldn't actually go to the movies but I'd applaud the ballsiness to go forward just on the strength of that pun with a full-on movie. Golf-claps would surely be had.)
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heh. that reminds me of my favorite joke that i think I have ever made. They put in a movie theater near my house that has leather seats which you must pay extra to sit in (in theory, at least.) We discovered, upon sitting in them, that they are not actually any more comfortable than the normal ones.
and then, I pointed out that the kind of people who pay a couple of bucks more just to sit on leather seats... thrive on pain.
so I guess it wasn't so much a joke as a true observation. anyway. I was pretty proud of it.
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Skinda like the difference between the Beatles and the Monkees.
Thank you, August.
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Also, Keith has a good point, and I would also point to songs of that period like She's the One and Growin' Up which are different lyrically from what he did later, once he seemed to get all those words out of his system along with the urge to write five minute operas. Not that I think they are necessarily better than the more pared-down imagery of a later song like Thunder Road, but you might like one and not the other.
Also might I point out that the man is not dead yet and has put out a couple of good albums in the past few years.
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The rest all just sort of sounds like... eh... standard blues-rock whatever kinda stuff.
Um, the reason the Rolling Stones sound like "standard blues-rock" is that they set the standard for blues-rock.
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speaking of comparing things to the beatles...
lets say I had never listened to any Rolling Stones other than what was played on the radio. maybe because my parents inexplicably didn't like them, and so I was not really exposed to them as a child. What album(s) should I purchase/download? I have "Their Satanic Majesties Request" and "Exile on Main St." But I haven't really listened to either.
Start listening to Exile on Main St. Put Satanic Majesties someplace where you will never find it again.
Get copies of Beggar's Banquet, Let It Bleed and Sticky Fingers. And Some Girls. Get Your Ya-Ya's Out is their best live album.
Purchasing Big Hits Volume One ( high tide and green grass) and Volume Two ( through the past darkly ) will give you a better picture of their sixties heyday than settling for Hot Rocks. You may also wish to check out their first album England's Newest Hit Makers for an idea of what a punky, energetic band they were starting out.
Find someone who will make you a mix CD of the best songs from Goat's Head Soup, It's Only Rock and Roll and Black and Blue. If that friend also has Love You Live, get side three ( the El Mocambo side ) from them too. Or just hit iTunes.
That should do it.
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LFM are you saying Springsteen isn't authentic? He's not from a poor working class family in New Jersey?
Get Beggers Banquet or Exile on Main Street. They are their best imho. Very different albums, but both excellent. Some Girls is also excellent.
August you made my day with that analogy. It's funny because it's true.
~Paul
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Um, the reason the Rolling Stones sound like "standard blues-rock" is that they set the standard for blues-rock.
Thank you again.
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I mean, literally speaking, I have no idea what Springsteen's background is. He may well basically match his star persona on a biographical level.
But the image and the music just feel so... artificial and constructed to me.
"Okay, we want something... bar rock-y but... we don't want to limit ourselves from potential arena tours so lets make sure to get some horns in there. And we're going for "the grass roots thing" so we'll vaguely ape the whole Dylan/Guthrie thing."
"We won't push the politics too much to keep the Heartland but... we don't wanna lose the East Coast either, so we need to make reference to somewhere blue-collar in the Northeast and just keep referencing it over and over until it borders self-parody."
"Joel already took Allentown? Crap, we're stuck with New Jersey."
"We're gonna need a guy with an... okay voice but not so good that it'll make any of our core consumers feel bad about themselves. Oh and... what was the note from merchandising? They said (shuffles papers) ... oh, apparently bandanas are hot with the kids these days. We'll need to definitely put Generic Rock Star #473 in a bandana of some kind."
"Eh, we'll find him soon, just... start printing up the bandanas. Those take time."
I dunno. I'll admit to bias.
If I find Bob Dylan to be maybe the most over-rated act in rock history (solid songwriter, awkward-at-best performer, confusing image) then I'm not gonna be into a guy who's essentially constructed as the bubblegum Bob Dylan, watered down enough to play the Wichita War Memorial Arena or whatnot, either.
As for the Stones... no, no, I get it, they're the popular progenitors of that stuff.
But I don't care for seafood.
You can put the best lobster in the world, prepared the best way, in front of me and...
My reaction's gonna be "Ewwwwwww, water spider."
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LFM, I give you an A for Composition and an F in Not Pissing Off Wombat At A Time When Life Sucks. As a personal favor could we put the Springsteen bashing on hold till about mid December? Because my penis was hovering over the delete post button although I knew that this would be completely, utterly uncalled for and inappropriate. It's not your fault, but I really need this to be my Happy Place right now. Later I am sure I will regain the ability to find this post amusing.
Ok, cue AlohaDawg for a discussion of whether being considerate of each other so that this board doesn't slide downhill into becoming a gathering of assholes like the rest of the Internet is more important than freedom of expression... Where is AD lately anyway?
PS: Never did understand why anyone compared Springsteen to Dylan but maybe that's because I like Springsteen more than either Dylan or a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, both of which I find roughly comparable. Not meaning to piss off anyone who's a big fan of pokes in the eye with sharp sticks or anything. They're just not to my taste.
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My humblest apologies. Consider it "on hold".
I tend to write on the internet with the idea that "all these things are just my opinion and I'm just sayin' from my point of view" is implied and understood. It's definitely a bad on me for forgetting.
If there's anything I could ramble about to help you get back to your happy place, just lemme know.
Ramblin's my thing.
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Apologies not required. You are not out of line - I am definitely the one asking for special consideration here.
And there wasn't anything about placenta in your post about giraffes.
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The placenta was in metaphor.
Placenta as the ugly oft-forgotten side product of something being born.
The concept of Geoffery today is not so interesting to me, what he developed from is what I actually find myself wanting to study.
The giraffe placenta is more interesting than the giraffe, so to speak.
(Am I being supremely arrogant or playfully goofy? Even I don't know anymore.)
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man, I dig you LFM. I totally don't get lobster.
but I love Bob Dylan, and that's just based on his first album where he covered (mostly) old folk songs. So I'm kind of putting off listening to his other stuff, lest I turn into some kind of drooling stalker.
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man, I dig you LFM. I totally don't get lobster.
but I love Bob Dylan, and that's just based on his first album where he covered (mostly) old folk songs. So I'm kind of putting off listening to his other stuff, lest I turn into some kind of drooling stalker.
Avoid Highway 61 Revisited then. For your sake and his.
(Just trying to drag it a bit back OT)
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Also avoid Another Side of Bob Dylan, avoid it today if possible (with Highway 61).
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Definitely steer clear of his latest Modern Times because it stands among his best.
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Actually I confess I would choose Blood on the Tracks over a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. It just would be so much better if someone slightly different were singing on it.
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Complaining about Bob Dylan's singing voice is kind of like complaining about Jimi Hendix's lyrics.
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Nobody complains about Hendrix lyrics when he's singing All Along the Watchtower.
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....do people not like hendrix lyrics? I like his lyrics. typically.
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Nobody complains about Hendrix lyrics when he's singing All Along the Watchtower.
You get a can for that.
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....do people not like hendrix lyrics? I like his lyrics. typically.
OK, let me put it another way. It's like criticisizing Michael Jordan for being a lousy cook.
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Doctor Comparision has resurrected another patient, folks!
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Although I am happy that someone else has amalgamated Billy Joel and Bruce Springsteen in their mind, I'm interested in this concept of Springsteen as "not too political".
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Perhaps, better to say, "vaguely political".
A lot of... very general sort of like "the working man is rough and tumble and the fatcats on Wall Street are keeping him down" kind of stuff but... not the kind of specifics that would actually alienate a dude on a tractor in a Ford commerical. Because tractor dude buys records too.
Sort of a Green Arrow deal.
On first blush, you read a Green Arrow story and you're like "that's wild, this superhero is very politically liberal" but... after a while, you realize that he's actually not saying anything specifically very political at all.
Perhaps to make sure that the reader understand the writer and editor aren't taking a position, it's just this is his character trait for the purposes of the story. Because tractor dude buys comics too.
He's... gesturing TOWARDS political things all the time but it ends up being as nebulous as:
"Green Lantern, you're always watching out for the purple man, but what about the black man?"
Or so on.
He's being not too political but he's being not TOO political all the goddamn time.
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Anybody listen to Mercury Rev? There Yerself Is Steam record is amazing. As well as Boces and Deserter's Songs.
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Anybody have a recommendation on The Residents?
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The Residents Commercial Album.
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To tie things up:
To kick things off: Can anyone recommend a 'beginner's' Tom Waits album?
Well, I bought TWO recommendations because they were dirt cheap: Closing Time and Rain Dogs. Thankyou, TOUAMB, for making my life a little bit richer, with more gravel.
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Harumph, perhaps I should come to this part of the woods more often. Interesting music discussion, without the flaming and scene-points of the world/inferno forums.
To resurrect TMBG, it seems a terrible travesty that the music video for Ana Ng (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6059920846864400906&q=tmbg+ana+ng) wasn't linked as well -- something about it just makes it bounce around in my head in a positive sort of way, and seems to be the best way to introduce someone to them. Of course, if you like that song, you're in no way guaranteed to like the album it's off of, as it seems their earlier work didn't even stay consistently within one style even within a single disc. I believe my introduction to them was through Severe Tire Damage (a sort-of compilation with various different recordings), and I still prefer quite a few versions of the songs found on it. I must agree that it seems like their more well-known stuff seems to sit less pleasantly with me, and I think I have come to actually hate Particle Man, but there is just so much good stuff available from them.
And holy crap, I bought Rain Dogs for $2 at a thrift store and it has seriously started a new obsession for me. I don't have more to add about that, except that if you are enjoying Rain Dogs, get Swordgiraffetrombone and Frank's Wild Years. Also, if you are liking that kinda stuff, you should also check out the band Man Man.
And finally, springsteen always seems to bring up turmoil in a discussion, doesn't he? My friends all seem to have the same opinion of him as they do of Gordon Gano: excellent songs wrapped in an unbearable voice. I can kind of see where they are coming from, but there is something about springsteen's songs that just.. work exceptionally well in my head. And it took me quite a while to get into him as well, because all my family loved him, and his music was always around, and I always felt extremely Meh about it all. And then of course one day I realized I was in love, and I honestly could not explain why. But song like thunder road, rosalita, the river.. something there just works really well for me.
And I would say good call on recommending Why do birds sing? -- their first album is great, yes, but american music is an excellent song, and the whole cd is just a lot less dark and more accessible. It's like, as much as I love Hallowed Ground, I don't think I could recommend that either for someone to start with.. I don't think they'd get far past country death song.
OK now I really should be asleep.
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How's about someone recommends me an album by Cannonball Adderly? I'm a huge sax guy but I suck at knowing where to find what is good. Also a recommendation for a starter's Phish album. There's WAY too much to sort through there, though I do have their cover of Dark Side of the Moon.
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Phish: I enjoy Billy Breathed, on occasion. But something live would probably be better-- I have no idea what this would be.
I definitely originally reread your request as "I'm a Huge Sex Gay."
The Cannonball Adderly which I was suggested to listen to was "Somethin' Else." This was either suggested by a book, or my friend... I forget which.
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How's about someone recommends me an album by Cannonball Adderly? I'm a huge sax guy but I suck at knowing where to find what is good. Also a recommendation for a starter's Phish album.
Cannonball Adderley: Somethin' Else, which features Miles Davis and is reminiscent of Kind of Blue.
Phish: You don't need to buy any Phish albums. Really. If you need something druggy and jamming, I'd recommend Panthalassa, an album of Miles Davis' 1969-1974 material remixed and resequenced by Bill Laswell. If that's not Caucasian enough for you, just get Live/Dead.
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come on people. I hate Jam bands. But Trey is one of the greatest guitarists I have ever heard. He is... wow.
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Phish sucks, it is all about String Cheese Incident. At least that is what my neighbor says.
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But Trey is one of the greatest guitarists I have ever heard.
This causes me to believe you have never heard Adrian Belew.
You should. The dude from Phish is definitely okay for a dude from a jam band but... c'mon.
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egh. King Crimson? Maybe. But Trey is really good. he can do all kinds of flicky percussive shit, and then he does like a hard run... and then he does some more crazy funk shit... and then he is all mellow...
listen to Run like an Antelope, people. Even though it goes on way too long. The guitar playing is great.
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Last week I got Kurt Elling's "Man In The Air" which is a real great album that anyone would like even if vocal jazz isn't your thing.
And if we're talking about guitar, no one should go through life without a copy of DiMeola's "Casino."
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Actually, you're not going to hear all the insane shit Belew can do from his work with Crimson. That's still pretty much Fripp's Precision Guitar Showcase.
But in his solo work, and to lesser extents in his time touring with Bowie or touring with Zappa, you really hear this mad genius pulling out every stop and inventing some stops on the fly. Playing piano with his guitar, doing crazy things with twang bars, making elephant sounds, doing things two players couldn't do.
I've been to a lot of concerts and I've listened to a lot of rock music and...
Seeing Belew solo in a little jazz club last year, there were times my mind was blown.
"How is one person making that sound?"
And my younger brother who's been playing guitar since he was ten and took six or seven years of classical training, his mind was blown nearly as often as mine was.
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Actually, you'll hear most of the insane shit Belew does if you get Discipline, and you'll hear a lot of the insane shit Robert Fripp does too. Discipline is pretty much required listening if you enjoy the six-stringed guitar instrument, in much the same way a hot pot is required if you like...meals.
Phish sucks a very large quantity of balls. Everything I ever read about them made me admire their approach to music, but every time I tried to actually listen to the music, I had to turn it off. Other than the live version of "Bouncing Around the Room," I find Phish absolutely unlistenable. Take the Grateful Dead, remove what little soulfulness and sensuality they had, and replace them with mathematical abstraction and fake whimsy, and you've got Phish.
Buy an old Funkadelic record instead.
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Actually, you'll hear most of the insane shit Belew does if you get Discipline, and you'll hear a lot of the insane shit Robert Fripp does too. Discipline is pretty much required listening if you enjoy the six-stringed guitar instrument, in much the same way a hot pot is required if you like...meals.
Seconded.
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dude, I don't care if you like phish. I rarely enjoy them. Trey is fuck*ng amazing.
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dude, I don't care if you don't care if I like Phish. I too rarely enjoy Phish. Because they suck. Have you ever heard them cover "Rhinoceros" by the Smashing Pumpkins? Or the entirety of Remain In Light by Talking Heads? You haven't. Lucky fuck*ng you.
There are ninety-six thousand better guitarists in the world than Trey Anastasio. I suggest you buy some of their albums.
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I have plenty of albums with good fuck*ng guitarists. I don't understand why that means I can't appreciate Trey. Trey is a great fuck*ng guitarist.
(I also like that your two examples were bands that I don't like.)
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You can like Trey all you like. It's just funny that you're so impassioned about a guitarist whose actual music you don't like. A great guitarist who can't create a worthwhile musical context for his playing is like....Allan Holdsworth.
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I don't know. I'm not a fan of jam bands in general. Especially the kind with too many instruments on every fuck*ng song (ie: Phish.) But I really enjoy Trey's guitar playing. whatever.
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Have you ever heard them cover...the entirety of Remain In Light by Talking Heads?
Really? How, em, odd.
Also, I have no opinion about Phish. But Adrian Belew played on Remain in Light. Also, he's from Kentucky.
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My least favorite Phish fact: they also once covered Loaded by the Velvet Underground. That is the only place one of my friends had ever heard those songs.
We tried to play Rock and Roll once, and it took us a good 10 minutes to figure out he was playing the shitty Phish version. And then he said he liked their version better (I later discovered that this, too, was a lie-- he had never heard the original.).
It could have been worse-- two members of the band had voted to cover Loveless. Which, I mean, it would have introduced the said friend to one of my favorite albums, and maybe he would have respected my taste in music a little more (since he seemed to think I only liked punk, no matter how many times I explained otherwise.) On the other hand... Phish + Album I like= No.
pre-edit: *several more paragraphs of ranting about said ex-friend, why I don't like him, what is wrong with him, things he has done to me, etc. I am trying to be better in my avoidance of personal rants. Also, rants about this guy.*
So, yeah. We saw the simul-cast of the last Phish show together. All 3 (?) days. That was the last time we really hung out and got along.
to get back on topic: what is the deal with Trout Mask Replica? I think it sounds interesting and complex and all that, obviously, and I can tell why it's so popular with some. What are your thoughts? I have only listened to the first few tracks.
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to get back on topic: what is the deal with Trout Mask Replica? I think it sounds interesting and complex and all that, obviously, and I can tell why it's so popular with some. What are your thoughts? I have only listened to the first few tracks.
I first bought Trout Mask Replica about 20 years ago. Probably a little more than that (from Vintage Vinyl -- is it still there?) That was pretty much my take on it. I listened to it maybe twice all the way through way back then. Then I listened to it (or parts of it) about once every 3 to 5 years. Very dense, very strange.
Then, about 3 months or so ago, I was surfing around on YouTube and watched a bunch of Beefheart videos, which interested me again. I downloaded TMR and Safe as Milk about three weeks ago and I've been listening to both a lot since. Both are pretty far out there, but TMR is by far the farther. Safe is much more accessible, at least musically.
I guess I'd say Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band is an acquired taste, but I'm rapidly discovering that it's a taste well worth acquiring.
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yes, Vintage Vinyl is still here. And, apparently, owned by a high school friend of my high school English teacher.
I have bought: some random vinyl (stevie wonder, carl perkins, Axis Bold as Love, dB's, violent femmes) and 2 Sebadoh CDs (both... egh. I dunno.)
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Man, what is the deal with the dB's. I try and try to like it, and think that I do, but I just can't.
Also, Sebadoh is..eh. But Folk Implosion Dare to be Surprised is a great record. Coldplay stole a riff from it. And here I thought they just copied U2, I never realized the complexity of their music until I figured that out.
And yeah, Phish used to cover a really good album every Halloween. Weird that such a shit band (just my opinion, I guess, unlike Coldplay) would cover such good albums.
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to be honest, my record player is in Charlotte. So I don't know what the deal is with the dB's. Yet. But they're supposed to be similar to the Feelies, who are like everything I like in music condensed into one band.
or at least, a lot of it. (too-fast, lots of rhythm guitars, weird lyrics, general hyperactivity)
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Yes, yes, you have to love the Feelies.