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Trivial Pursuits => History => Topic started by: iron_felix on April 19, 2007, 01:02:08 am

Title: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: iron_felix on April 19, 2007, 01:02:08 am

(http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper871/stills/8u2an7rb.jpg)


One of my friends from high school is an editorial cartoonist for the UGA student newspaper.  The above image is one of his cartoons, which ran in yesterday's paper.  I find it incredibly poignant, and when first shown the image I likened it to Mike Luckovich's 9/11 drawing with the weeping Statue of Liberty.  The UGA student body's reaction was somewhat different to mine - namely, going completely apeshit and flooding the newspaper editors with letters of outrage and demands that the artist responsible be fired.  Thankfully, the editors were more sensible than that, although they weren't too pleased with the volume of hate mail they received (being a left-wing political cartoonist, most of his work offends a fairly large demographic of UGA students anyway, but not nearly to this extent).  He gave a clarification (http://media.www.redandblack.com/media/storage/paper871/news/2007/04/17/Opinions/Editorial.Cartoon-2844542.shtml?reffeature=recentlycommentedstoriestab) for the drawing, if not a full-fledged apology, that ran in today's paper.  The throngs have yet to disperse.

I have a pretty thick skin, so I may not be the best person to gauge how offensive something is, but I don't think what it is this time.  I wasn't just unperturbed by this cartoon, I was very deeply moved.  I think it captures perfectly the stark horror of the shootings.  I am puzzled as to why such a large number of people completely misinterpreted it.

So, Party People, I submit this to you, as a diverse audience endowed with (hopefully) more understanding of the ways of the world than the average undergrad, and singularly well-suited to the critique of works of cartoonery (I'm not sure what the real word for that is) - does this offend, or not?  Is this drawing really in poor taste, and I, my friend, and the editors who allowed it to be printed have simply failed to realize it?  Or do the folks down there (more specifically, students at UGA) just not get it?
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: theinevitable on April 19, 2007, 01:06:29 am
I don't know. I found it... not offensive. i can see what he is going for, but I can't say I am personally moved.

The weeping statue of liberty was... beautiful. I loved that cartoon, and I felt like it captured a lot.

of course, I'm sure everywhere else got just as much (or less) hate mail regarding that cartoon as our newspaper is. After all-- The Charlotte Observer is obviously as the most liberal newspaper in America, full of bias and hate for the US. Just ask a kid in my 11th grade English class, who consistently stated this opinion.

So, no. I don't really find this offensive. I can see how other people might misinterpret this though.

edit: apparently almost every political cartoonist in the US did a variation on that image (of the statue of liberty). I cannot find the original one I saw... which was way better than the ones I -can- find.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: linnea on April 19, 2007, 01:45:04 am
I think it's pretty offensive. I can see how weeping, traumatized people would be outraged at that drawing. The way that he uses the school logo with a smoking gun...well, the symbol of the school means a lot. I read that the dean or president of the university was devastated by the attacks - he was a student there, then faculty, and now the head of the whole thing. I think he would be crushed to see the school's logo parodied in a manner that equate the school with a gunman's violence. Although from what you describe, this was NOT his intent, it looks like he's glorifying it with a drawing that looks Hollywoodesque. I don't like it.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: RMJ12345 on April 19, 2007, 01:52:31 am
I like it - I think it does capture something of the brutality of the attacks. I was also moved by this.

I can see where people would be offended, though, and I question the editor in publishing this so soon after the attacks.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: jaydub on April 19, 2007, 02:09:51 am
I hate to be pedantic about this, but the smoke is coming out too low for the barrel...

Who am I kidding.  I am the very definition of a pedant.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: Doc on April 19, 2007, 03:52:20 am
I don't get it. I'm unfamiliar with the school logo so that's part of it but I think the black background combined with the gun made it look too 'trying to be cool' rather than sorrowful.
That said I didn't think it was offensive.
I think the number of comments after that article the are  (continued) and go on and on is pretty offensive.  Good old misdirected anger.


Edited: To remove all 'maybe' 'i guess' and 'kind of' what am I 13?
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: pmcd9 on April 19, 2007, 04:19:59 am
I hate to be pedantic about this, but the smoke is coming out too low for the barrel...

Who am I kidding.  I am the very definition of a pedant.

I was going to point out that it's the wrong caliber.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: side_show on April 19, 2007, 04:22:45 am
Yeah, I think artistically the statement of this image is a little muddled, and if you're going to make a political statement with a cartoon about such an issue.. you know, put more thought into it and be concise.  I look at it and I'm confused:  I don't understand what the artist was trying to say.  Why the school logo?  This isn't really a cartoon, but rather just a reinvented logo.  And a logo is a branding/identifying marker... Did he understand he'd created an icon that implies the school's identity is marred by the shooting?  I guess that's sort of a statment, but not a powerful one, or one that needed to be made in an image.  Why boil the issue down to just the school logo and a smoking gun?  Isn't imposing the gun as a central symbol over simplifying?  I don't really find it offensive, but rather unclear, and I guess sort of unnecessary.  The statue of liberty cartoon expressed a clear notion of the nation's emotional state, where as this image doesn't make a clear statement about anything.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: theinevitable on April 19, 2007, 04:24:15 am
oof. overreactions are so fun. Personally, if I misunderstand something someone is trying to say, and they explain what they meant... I don't suggest that they be fired? Normally my reaction would be "oh, maybe explain yourself better next time."
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: linnea on April 19, 2007, 05:56:22 am
I don't read comments. Especially on blogs that I like, or on news articles. I'm just sick of weeding through the troll bullshit. It's not worth my time.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: V-Adore on April 19, 2007, 06:14:41 am
Yeah, throw me in on the "not offended, but not really getting the intended communication here" bandwagon. It's the Virginia Tech logo, and a gun... and? What is the intended communication here? There's no emotional indicator at all, and as such I'm really confused. It seems to be (clumsily) communicating a fact, at best.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: pmcd9 on April 19, 2007, 06:58:57 am
Sometimes, guns in the classroom (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmcd9/464784411/) is fun!
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: KeithHernandez on April 19, 2007, 08:23:44 am
Yeah, throw me in on the "not offended, but not really getting the intended communication here" bandwagon. It's the Virginia Tech logo, and a gun... and? What is the intended communication here? There's no emotional indicator at all, and as such I'm really confused. It seems to be (clumsily) communicating a fact, at best.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: slink on April 19, 2007, 12:29:38 pm
Not sure I'd go as far as crass, and while I'm not offended by it, it doesn't exactly seem tactful. It would be like the Statue of Liberty holding a burning plane, or one crashing into it.
I'm not offended, for sure.

No, maybe it is just crass... Having thought about how it actually compares to the Statue of Liberty one.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: Ben-San on April 19, 2007, 07:28:58 pm
To me, the immediate message is "Virginia Tech is a place that people go to get shot at", and is about on par with "Virginia Tech? More like Killin'ya Tech, am I right, people?"
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: Golfhaus on April 19, 2007, 11:54:27 pm
I like it.

It does a good job of pointing out the permanence of the shooting on people's perceptions of Va Tech from now on. Virginia Tech is a good school. Strong athletic program, known academic prowess. But this image may as well BE the school's new logo, as far as people's perceptions are concerned. It's been 35 years, but what's the first thing you think of when you hear "Kent State University?"

It's not a nice message. Not all messages need to be.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: iron_felix on April 20, 2007, 03:59:10 pm
Well, it looks like people are having a number of different reactions to the cartoon:  Some positive, some negative to varying degrees, and a lot of "I don't get it" responses (which is typical for my friend's cartoons, even his non-political stuff).  But for the most part even the people who weren't offended have said they can understand how others were.

I thought this might be the case.  It doesn't surprise me that reasonable people could be offended by this, but I was hoping for some kind of validation that I wasn't being a dick myself for having liked it, and I think I've gotten that from this thread.  Rumjay, I'm especially glad to know that you, as someone for whom these events have been so close to home, were as moved as I was.  That makes me feel much better about this than I would otherwise.

I wouldn't think too poorly the people at UGA just because a bunch of them want my friend fired, either.  I'm sure some of them of them are just acting a fool over this, but from what I understand, a lot of the students calling for the dude's head had been doing so anyway well before this particular cartoon ran, and this only caused them to redouble their efforts.  Of course, in a way that's even worse than just overreacting, but whatever.  They're people with an agenda, and for all the uproar, it doesn't look like anything is actually going to come of it.

[...] I think the black background combined with the gun made it look too 'trying to be cool' rather than sorrowful.
Although from what you describe, this was NOT his intent, it looks like he's glorifying it with a drawing that looks Hollywoodesque. I don't like it.

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/170000/images/_171224_bond_logo_300.jpg)

I think this brings up an important point with respect to the portrayal of gun violence in American culture.  I suspect a large number of those offended by the cartoon made at least some sort of association with the smoking gun being glamorous, and expecting that the artist intended them to think it was cool.  That's not to say they weren't justified in taking offense for that reason, but if that's really the case it's pretty disturbing in its own right.

Also, very good point about the use of the school's logo linking the killings to the school's identity.  I hadn't thought about it that way, and I certainly hope people won't make that association too readily once this is in the past.  I think the Kent State shootings were an entirely different case, though, due to their political context.  That was a defining moment in the larger historical narrative of the Vietnam protest movement, rather than an isolated tragedy carried out by a lone madman, and therefore it has much more staying power.  It's been about the same amount of time since Charles Whitman did his thing up in the clock tower, and the University of Texas has managed to avoid its reputation being tarnished in the same way.  Hopefully that will prove true for Virginia Tech also.

EDIT:  Wow, what an utterly crap time this was for me to have hit 187 posts.  I'm relieved to have gone back to being Chucklebot again.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: jaydub on April 20, 2007, 04:06:52 pm
I'll point out with some sadness that "Columbine" has become shorthand for school shootings.  Time will tell whether VT gets the same association.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: pmcd9 on April 20, 2007, 07:14:02 pm
Also, very good point about the use of the school's logo linking the killings to the school's identity.  I hadn't thought about it that way, and I certainly hope people won't make that association too readily once this is in the past.  I think the Kent State shootings were an entirely different case, though, due to their political context.  That was a defining moment in the larger historical narrative of the Vietnam protest movement, rather than an isolated tragedy carried out by a lone madman, and therefore it has much more staying power.  It's been about the same amount of time since Charles Whitman did his thing up in the clock tower, and the University of Texas has managed to avoid its reputation being tarnished in the same way.  Hopefully that will prove true for Virginia Tech also.

Kent State is synonymous with those killings because that sort of thing (thankfully) hasn't happened again.  VTech probably will get a little bit of a reputation because it was so big (32 killed), but it wont become synonymous because this kind of thing has become all too common.  Also, as Jaydub pointed out, Columbine is already the name associated with school killings.
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: jaydub on April 20, 2007, 08:43:45 pm
Its a pity for such a pretty alpine flower, too

(http://www.fotolode.com/images/jaydub/columbine.jpg)

(School's namesake - flower came first...)
Title: Re: VT Shooting Editorial Cartoon - Possibly (?) Offensive Content
Post by: linnea on April 21, 2007, 01:49:54 am
Its a pity for such a pretty alpine flower, too

(http://www.fotolode.com/images/jaydub/columbine.jpg)

(School's namesake - flower came first...)

Yeah. I was really pissed when I saw bumper stickers of columbine everywhere after the incident, then I realized that the Columbine was (duh) the image of the school. The official State Flower of Colorado is forever marred. :( Sigh.