The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: sjlimmer on October 07, 2003, 11:38:39 pm
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Greetings all. I have a question or two for you. I am completely and totally non-musically-inclined. The extent of my experience with musical instruments is the time I "learned" to play recorder in elementary school. I'd say that I have all the musical talent of a rock, but hey, at least a rock can be used to beat out a rhythm.
However, I know a few people who have taught themselves to play guitar, and they seem to have a decent aptitude for it, despite the lack of traditional instruction. Well, I'd like to be less instrument-inept, and I'm going to need a hobby when I finish grad school (since I probably won't be spending every waking moment in the lab anymore), so I though this might be something for me to consider.
I also remember a discussion on the old Dumbrella board about learning to play bass guitar. Since I've always thought that the bass was cool (many years of listening to Joy Division and New Order, I guess), I'm tempted to buy a cheap used bass and a few instructional books, and give it a go.
Am I insane? Is this something one could actually hope to have work? And if so, what should I be looking for in a guitar (acoustic/electric, brand, etc)? Any advice or words of discouragement?
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On the one hand:
The hard thing about a guitar is tuning it. I have played a lot of instruments, and I have a machine to help me, and I'm still never completely satisfied that I have a guitar in tune. It can be very discouraging for a beginner.
On the other hand:
At least the bass has fewer strings to tune, right? And what's most important is that you pick the instrument you think is coolest, so you'll try hard. And in my opinion, guitar is one of the easier instruments on which to get a satisfying amount of basic ability.
But, we definitely need some input from a bass player here, I've never played bass guitar. I'm not sure what a bass player does when sitting alone at home without a band to play with? Unlike a regular guitar, where you can do stuff like accompany yourself singing (in a room where noone can hear you).
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Some bassists are actually very happy just playing alone. Especially if you are good enough to do some insane riffs, and well less riffs but real Jazz on bass you know. Also if you could learn fretless bass it gives more possibilites.
I was always of the camp that thought it was a bit dull to play alone, so I only really play as much as someone who can pick up most instruments and play them OK. And as a guitarrist of many years it helps.
As for guitar, I'd recommend it. I'm self taught, the only lessons I've had are from other guitarrists I've met who have helpful hints.
I find new skills and talents on it come from osmosis. When I come across something at the right time it just clicks. If it's not the right time, I won't pick it up.
After 10 years self taught (the earlier you start the better) I have played live, and am working on an album (after having recorded some stuff, and an album for a friend a couple of years back), so it can be done. I guess what it takes is the motivation, and since music is pretty much most of my life (the one thing I couldn't live without say) I have had a fair bit.
As for other instruments, well, guitar and bass are certainly easiest to self teach.
Plus, as Wombat said, tuning is going to be particularly hard if you are un-musical, let alone playing. My mate (a drummer) is learning at the moment, and it's not easy, since he just isn't grasping certain aspects.
If you can master harmonic tuning it's best becuase you get the best tuning possible, but it does take a good musical ear.
If not, an electronic tuner does do the job, unless you're going to play around with CGCGGE or even just dropping all the strings from EADGBE to a C tuning or such.
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At the incredibly advanced age of 35, I am considering re-starting piano lessons. I've taken voice and I can read music - I just can't PLAY anything! We have guitars, a piano and ukuleles (real ones) in the house and I can't play a THING! So it's time for me too! Best of luck, SJLimmer!
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Oh yes, in terms of what to look for in a guitar, I'd start out with an acoustic. I had both acoustic and electric around when I was learning early on, but it's far better to learn on an acoustic.
You can hear it far better for learning, on an electric you either can't hear it, or you have it amped which doesn't give the quality of sound needed for learning properly.
Also, to get a good sound from an electric it has to honestly be fairly expensice, and similarly the amp used.
As for qualities of a guitar, I preferred learning on one where the strings were closer to the fret board, so were easier to press in (though not close enough to make odd noises - that's shoddy), and a wide neck, since I have long fingers and it allows for slower fingers to make mistakes without too many downsides.
I still actually go for a fairly easy press on a guitar, hence the only Strat I've like was my remake that had fairly close strings, and I now have a Maton Mastersound which similarly has fairly close, loose strings (as well as a gorgeous sound).
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I, too, am occasionally tempted to take up an instrument. I actually played drums for a while in elementary-school and middle-school band, and I... well, I didn't totally suck at it. The temptation to found some sort of pickup band is embarrassingly powerful.
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I'm tempted to buy a cheap used bass and a few instructional books, and give it a go.
Am I insane? Is this something one could actually hope to have work? And if so, what should I be looking for in a guitar (acoustic/electric, brand, etc)? Any advice or words of discouragement?
No, you're not insane. The world needs more bass players.
I'm a guitar player myself, but since our bass player left our band three years ago I've had to learn. The other guitarist and I switch back and forth. And we both suck at playing bass. So if you start off playing only bass, you'll be better off, because you'll think like a bassist and not a frustrated guitar player ( more on this later ).
You're going to need a bass, an amp, a cord, a tuner and a strap. And, if you're smart, a metronome. For the bass, it's hard to go wrong with a Fender Precision or Jazz Bass. Fender makes an inexpensive line called Squier that you may want to look into as well. Consult the product review databases at harmony-central.com for advice on basses and an amp. Your local music store will help with the rest.
You may want to find a teacher at first, and here's why: it's best to play bass with your fingers and not a pick. Though there are exceptions to this rule ( Paul McCartney leaps to mind), a teacher can help start you off with proper right-hand technique.
I don't know what books to recommend for a beginner, but once you've advanced, check out James Jamerson: Standing in the Shadows of Motown.
Hope this helps.
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Do you know how to get a bass player off your porch?
Pay him for the pizza.
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Is there anything left-handed people ned to know about picking up stringed instruments? 'Cause I'm pretty sure everytime I've pretended to play someone's guitar I've held it upside down.
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In my experience (as a righty who plays sports left-handed), lefties are often at an advantage by having their manual dexterity shifted to the hand that does most of the tricky work. I played viola for six years and being semi-ambidexterous minimized my initial frustration -- in comparison to my fellow right-handed fourth-graders, at least. Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm not a guitarist of any sort, but at least in the orchestral world it seems to help if one is sinister.
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The hard part of playing the guitar is done with the left hand, like on the viola etc., so I assume lefties would have an advantage to start. After you've done it a while I don't think it makes a difference, but it might help a beginner.
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As a leftie who played/plays (I'm starting up again) guitar, I can't say if I have an advantage, but I always had a hard time finger-picking, and it took me a long time to get tremelo-picking down (where you rapidly strike the string up and down very fast).
But I think either way it takes practice and "finger memory" - letting it become almost instinctual.
Just keep at it and eventually you will be good. I have no musical "talent" whatsoever, but I worked really hard at it when I was a teenager (to the exclusion of most else) and got pretty proficient.
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Mark Knopfler is a leftie who plays guitar right handed (right hand strumming/picking) which allows him his best hand on the frets, and it does make him a damn good guitarrist.
I wished three years after starting that I had played a left handed guitar so I had my right hand on the frets, but trying it was just too strange so I was stuck.
So it may be of advantage to play it normally, you may prefer to do a Hendrix and play it upside down and strung the wrong way round, or a left handed guitar (his pleck guard was always on the top so the bottom of his guitar was always trashed).
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As a leftie, I had to decide how I was going to play when I first started learning.
Since I sucked at the time, it didn't really matter to me. But I figured it I played a right handed guitar strung the normal way, I could pick up a guitar anywhere and play it.
So that's how I practised. And it did seem to make it easier for me to be fast with my fretting fingres.
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fast with my fretting fingres.
<lou>That's some nice alliteration there, chief</lou>
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I'd go with bass. It's easier, of course, fewer strings, but there's equal potential to become amazing... I wish I had a non-punk rock analogy for this, but anyone who thinks all bassists just do Sid Vicious stuff (2/3 chords) should listen to Rancid. (Caveat: I'm actually an indie rocker, please dont tell anyone I just namedropped the Sex Pistols and Rancid.)
But yeah, bass equals rad. You get the same attractiveness factor as guitarists too.
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The Pistols are just indie that got out, man. They'll live on forever. They're the fuck*ng Beatles of punk.
Bass is cool, but I had no fun playing mine by myself in my room. I grooved on the brass for awhile - I played trumpet and had too much fun.
But I've had a crush on the sax for awhile.
I'll leave the line above by itself for easy quoting by the unimaginative and their double-entendres.
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I'd go with bass. It's easier, of course, fewer strings, but there's equal potential to become amazing... I wish I had a non-punk rock analogy for this, but anyone who thinks all bassists just do Sid Vicious stuff (2/3 chords) should listen to Rancid.
Of course there were the days when they used to just turn off Sid' amp because live he never managed to play anything remotely musical.
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Other bass advantages: if you want to be in a band, you'll be in a band. If you peruse music classifieds, you'll see a million guitar players looking for a band, and a million bands looking for a bass player.
Andalucia said the attractiveness factor is the same as for guitarists, but in my experience, it's actually higher. Ladies seem to love them some bass players. Perhaps it's because bassists have to build a bridge between what the guitarist and drummer are doing, and thus have to actually be able to listen.
Or not.
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Andalucia said the attractiveness factor is the same as for guitarists, but in my experience, it's actually higher. Ladies seem to love them some bass players. Perhaps it's because bassists have to build a bridge between what the guitarist and drummer are doing, and thus have to actually be able to listen.
Or not.
I think it's because, most of the time, the bassist is the quiet mysterious one who plays a cool instrument. Most of the time there's either a guitarrist or a non 'musician' singing, so the bassist tends to just hang back and do his job. I think women like the mysterious allure...
Or not!
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I think it's the deep reverberations. Do you know how much trim Yo-Yo Ma gets on tour? Seriously!
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I played viola for six years
Hey! My daughter is in her third year of playing viola. Any advice for her?
Re: sinister guitar fretwork.
I always wondered why the guitar isn't set up to where you use your dominant hand to do the fretwork. It seems like that's the harder job of the two, why wouldn't you use your better hand to do it? 'Course, I always just played as a normal righty.
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Well, I'd sleep with Yo Yo Ma if I saw him. Well, OK no, but the guy is wonderful. Nearly went to see him in Amsterdam when I was over.
And August, I think one of the benefits that I do get out of playing normally right handed is that I do at least have strength and fineness in the picking and strumming rhythm. Doesn't always seem important, but when I try to teach my mate how to do any rhythms he just can't get them. May also be something about him not having great rhythmic sense (he can keep time, but can't change the strumming pattern much).
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Hey! My daughter is in her third year of playing viola. Any advice for her?
Don't give in to the pressure to switch to cello or violin. Some violists are just closet violinists or something, all trying to make a viola sound like a violin. It's not. Enjoy the low notes; revel in the alto tones. They're gorgeous and soulful in a way that violinists are incapable of reproducing. Love your viola for what it is, not what others think it should be.
Always carry a full set of extra strings. Your fellow orchestra members will thank you.
Get a good book of viola solos and play stuff you like. Solos for viola can be hard to find, but here's (http://www.beatlestab.com/store/sheet_music/viola/default.asp)a start. The more you like your music, the more you'll practice; the more you practice, the better you'll get; the better you get, the less you'll have to practice.
Join the orchestra at your school if you haven't already. If you're learning to play exclusively at school, take private lessons or go to music camp over the summer. It keeps your fingers limber.
Forget vibrato; focus on shifting. If you can shift like a fiend, you can play some kickin' fiddle tunes.
Don't store your shoulder rest inside your viola case. That's a sure-fire way to damage your instrument. Mine cracked right below the f-hole. Yeah, I'm expecting some jokes on that one.
Oh, and never ask me for advice. I'm too preachy.
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Huh huh huh. JL said "F-hole".
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You just wish you were the one who broke it.
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That's the most worked-up I've ever seen anyone get over the subject of the viola. You go, JL!
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I don't know, the thought of a "broken" f-hole is a little disturbing.
I've heard of them tearing, and it sounds like the MOST unpleasant thing EVER.
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That's the most worked-up I've ever seen anyone get over the subject of the viola. You go, JL!
I lived through six years of hearing, "Why don't you switch to violin" from my mother. I get passionate. *shrug*
I don't know, the thought of a "broken" f-hole is a little disturbing.
Owwww! Oh my goodness! That is the worst thing ever! If someone broke my f-hole I'd never let him (or her) within six feet of me again.
I say six feet because that's how deep they bury you. When you're dead. Because I'd murder him (or her).
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I thought she said 6 feet because of the old "wouldn't touch that with a 6 foot pole"...because if someone touched you in the f-hole vicinity with a 6-foot pole, you would surely suffer a broken f-hole.
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I showed Lucy (my daughter) your post, JL and she appreciated it. She's been in her school orchestra and is just starting in a city-wide youth orchestra. She's supposed to start private lessons soon.
I don't know why she chose viola, but I wouldn't dream of pressuring her to switch. If that's what she wants to play, more power to her. Hell, if she wants to be a trianglist, I'm fine with that. Seems to me like there's more opportunity for violists. Seems like there's about 20 violins for every viola out there.
And if anyone gets near her f-hole I'll rip his lungs out.
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I don't know why she chose viola, but I wouldn't dream of pressuring her to switch. If that's what she wants to play, more power to her. Hell, if she wants to be a trianglist, I'm fine with that.
Great, now you've just reminded me of all my hard hours behind the triangle.. nice.
(And yes, I spent my time with triangles. It's a fairly natural place for a 7th-grade band member whom the director does not like at all.)
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V, I think you should be proud of your triangling (trangling? triangle playing? triangle mastery?). Remember, there are no small parts only small triangles. Whatever the hell THAT means.
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V, I think you should be proud of your triangling (trangling? triangle playing? triangle mastery?). Remember, there are no small parts only small triangles. Whatever the hell THAT means.
a) Yes, there are small triangles. Very small.
b) No, there is such a thing as a small part -- when you have one note halfway through the song, it is simply not possible to play that note with so much flair that anybody notices you. Trust me; I've tried.
Bah. Now I want to write "Percussion Pit Confidential."
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when you have one note halfway through the song, it is simply not possible to play that note with so much flair that anybody notices you. Trust me; I've tried.
Ah you just have to kind of, do a peice of contemporary dance in the most bizare Iggy Pop fashion up to the very front, threaten to fall on the first row, then hit the triangle on cue as hard as possible. I'm sure that would get you noticed.
Fair enough, you may only make it happen in one performance due to... erm... getting dropped. But it would be fun.