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Trivial Pursuits => History => Topic started by: jay-ell on September 08, 2007, 04:53:14 pm
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I'm doing research on Frieda Miller for my MA thesis (holy crap there is no wiki entry for her at all, I am going to have to fix that) and I have a cryptic telegram that no historian has been able to decipher. You guys are brilliant; can you help?
The background:
Frieda S. Miller was, among other things, the second director of the Women's Bureau in the Department of Labor from 1944 until 1953, when she was forced to resign under the Eisenhower administration. She was also the mother of an adopted daughter, Elisabeth, and shared a townhome in New York with labor activist and socialist Pauline Newman. It is clear from their correspondence (which I have seen with my own eyes) that they were a couple -- they raised Elisabeth together and lived together for more than thirty years, ending with Miller's death in the 1970s. (There are Mother's Day cards from Elisabeth's two sons addressed with love to "Granny and Pauline.") They were probably the cutest pair of historical lesbians I have ever encountered in my research -- their letters are absolutely fascinating, affectionate, and witty. (If anyone is interested I can post the letter Pauline wrote to Frieda the day that Sacco and Vanzetti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_and_vanzetti) were executed. It very nearly brought me to tears.) At any rate, their relationship was clearly a romantic one and they were absolutely devoted to one another.
Here's the part I need help with. In a folder in Frieda Miller's private papers, I found a telegram that had been mentioned in another researcher's book and found it to be completely baffling. (The other researcher quoted it, but also could not explain its meaning.) The folder was marked "Leaving W.B. -- 1953" and contained dozens of letters decrying Miller's forced resignation (again, the details on this are unclear but apparently Ike wanted to bring in a Republican; the position had traditionally been non-partisan but perhaps he discovered Miller's relationship status?). Among them was the message as follows:
Dec 8 12:50 PM 1953 from Brooklyn NY:
“MISS FREDA S MILLER CHIEF WOMENS BUREAU
U S DEPT OF LABOR
8 LONELY LOURIAS CHANT COME BACK HOME ALL IS FORGIVEN
UNSIGNED”
Any guesses? What the hell is a louria? (Pauline's first language was not English and she was prone to spelling errors...perhaps this was one?) This sounds like a literary reference, but a google search turns up nothing. Does this ring a bell for any of you literary types? I am fairly certain that this came from Pauline, but what on earth could it mean?
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A pet name or shared joke between two longtime companions? Or a mash note from a deranged stalker?
That's about as far as my intuition takes me.
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Yikes. 14 views, one reply. I was hoping somebody knew of an obscure Czech opera called "Eight Lonely Lourias" or something. I mean, seriously -- I figured y'all's collective literacy had pretty much every base covered.
Is it that obscure, or just that uninteresting?
Clearly there's not enough cock in this thread.
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I have seen the term "ALL IS FORGIVEN COME BACK HOME" used in post WWII telegrams alerting those who had fled their home counties pre-war that they had been granted amnesty and could return home without persecution. I seem to recall this was the specific terminology used in declarations of amnesty at the time. I can't remember exactly where, but it was in my research back when I was working as a journalist interviewing war vets. I'm pretty sure this would have even been the language used in newspaper headlines at the time - it was common language. Undoubtedly the person who wrote this, in 1953 would be aware of this allusion. The illiteration of "lonely" and "lourias" definitely points to a quote from poetry... It's likely the sort of personal poetry that may never have been read by anyone but Freda and the sender. Certainly she was going through her own personal war at the time this was sent, and likely it points to someone wishing to assure her that she was still welcome "home" in spite of everything.
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Yeah, that's about all I can make of it. "Lourias" is a total mystery to me.
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smells --
I didn't know about the declarations of amnesty language -- that's an interesting perspective, and given that both women were children of European immigrants I imagine the phrase had special significance. I will look further into this.
I googled "lonely lourias" but didn't think to look at "all is forgiven come back home." Neat.
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I saw something about lourias meaning "low walls" in some dialect... but that doesn't seem logical here.
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How many siblings did she have? Maybe she had been "disowned" earlier due to her preferences or something.
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That is really fascinating, but I got nothin'. I have never heard a word remotely like "louria". I have this mental image of eight caryatids chanting "all is forgiven." Is there a mythological reference to one of the, say, Greek odysseys? Like...did Odysseus receive a vision of eight women telling him he could return? What's the significance of eight _____s chanting something?
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I am likewise intrigued but unable to help. Googling turned up nothing you wouldn't have seen, but both Louria (could have been plural) and Lourias seem to be family names, have you looked into their family trees?
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(If anyone is interested I can post the letter Pauline wrote to Frieda the day that Sacco and Vanzetti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_and_vanzetti) were executed. It very nearly brought me to tears.) At any rate, their relationship was clearly a romantic one and they were absolutely devoted to one another.
Wow, I'd love to read that. Also, I had never heard about Sacco and Vanzetti before. Apparently they were executed over allegedly killing someone and heisting over $15,000... in today's money, that would be over half a million dollars. The anti-Italian stuff back in those days was also pretty crazy.
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Here's the Sacco and Vanzetti letter. Like most of Pauline's letters to Friday, it was typewritten on onion-skin paper, and I left the spelling and grammar intact to show the change in her emotional state as she wrote.
I think it speaks for itself.
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A-37 Box 1, Folder 8 “Pauline Newman, 1927 – 1961”
New York City
Tuesday August 23rd, 1927.
Dear Girl:
It is raining--and to-day it should. Sacco and Venzetti have been officially murdered, and there is no place for sunshine to-day. If there is such a force which manipulates these things, then it is well that the sun is hidden from our eyes to-day. The rain, and the slight wind, the clouded and sumber sky is more to my liking to-day. It somehow fits in with an aching heart and a very weary mind! But to tell you all I went through since I left you, I must begin with my boarding the train. As you know there is no newspaper to be gotten on the Bethel local. But when we changed for South Norwalk, I tried to get one at the station only to find that the stand close. On entering the train, however, I saw a man sleeping and a newspaper beside him. In my desire to know what the latest news was, I picked up the paper, and there I saw that there is no hope left. Every one, even Brandies gave his “reason” for not interfering, and there was no longer any hope any where. And then I saw a letter Sacco had written to his son Dante, and began to read it but could no longer control myself and wept all the way into the City. The horror of the whole thing just got hold of me and there was nothing left but a terrible helplessness and a feeling of utter hopelessness such as I have never felt before entered my soul. For the longest while I could not make up my mind whether I am to go home or not, and suddenly remembered that there was to be a meeting at the Community Church. Bought another paper and saw that the meeting was turned into a “Death Watch” meeting, so went into the League, got me a cup of coffee and with Agnes went to the meeting. The church was packed, tho we found seats. Men and women whom I have not seen since the days of my activity were there, and the chairman of the S. Party came over and asked me whether, if the meeting should continue until after midnight, I would speak, and I said “yes.” For I was sufficiently stirred to speak, though I was not at all sure that I would be able to control my emotion and -- tears.
But the delegation came back from Boston about ten o’clock and when we saw their faces, we knew that there was no hope left. And then Mr. Lovett spoke, and except Thomas, his was the most wonderful speech I have heard! He called Lowell of Harward first a lier and then murderer and the house was cheering for fully five minutes -- never shall I forget that moment. And when the cheering and the tumult had ceased, he said, “I repeat, that if Pres. Lowell does not, before midnight, recant, he is everything I said he was!” Will tell you more of his speech when I see you -- you should be proud of him -- I was.
And then Thomas came forward -- asking not to interupt him with applaus, and Fried, I have listened to speeches for more than twenty-five years and heard some eloquent speakers, but never did I hear anything better eithet from the point of view of orator of material or feeling! He was magnificient, and marvelous!
Other speakers filled in. Judge Panken told of his interview with Fuller, of the other editors and the plea of Edna St. Vincent M. all them on their knees before this one man who still had the power to show mercy -- if not justice, and then the announcement that the Governor is in conference with Mrs. Sacco and Miss Vanzeti, that and no more. More waiting until at last the announcement that there would be no reprieve. A grown from all of us, sobing, tears, men, big men weeping and standing silently with heads down while Thomas once more offered a prayer -- if you can call it that, but it was the saddest meeting I have ever lived through. There was no need for words then -- we wept not so much for Sacco and Vanzetti as for America and for justice! And then we walked to Fifth Ave and down to Union Sq. where a squad of police broke up a meeting for the communists. We went into Childs -- an old group of men and women I knew when hope was in my heart that a better, mor just day is ahead of us -- and sat talking until the first edition of the morning paper came out -- 3 a.m. It was four when I went home and brought Miss Dahme with me. She lives way out in Yonkers ans there was no train until eight in the morning so she stayed with me and there was no sleep in us any way.
I assure you that it is an effort for me to even think of anything else. And yet, life goes on as before. I got out and went to see afew people only to find that there was nothing doing in the shops. No work and consequently to business for me. I am terribly discouraged. But will try to go out tomorrow again.
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I am sorry you were not with me last evening. I wanted, tho it be only sorrow -- to share it with you. I am terribly up-set, and the nervous strain is hard to bear. And yet, their families -- Mrs. Sacco, her two children -- and those who have been nearer to them than we are. And the terrible horrible moments for the two men! I suppose it is the mercy of nature that we cannot -- try as we may -- visualize the pain of those men! Vanzetti’s last words were “I am an inocent man, inocent of all crimes”! Sacco’s “Long live Anarchy! Good by my wife and children, good by mother -- and that is that!
And as I said last night: “their agony is over, But, the shame, the grief, the suffering of a great wrong, the disgrace of our laws and courts -- are ours to endure!”
It is still raining, and the heart is heavy while the spirit wanders toward you -- where it might find some peace!
Pauline
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How many siblings did she have? Maybe she had been "disowned" earlier due to her preferences or something.
She had one sister, but as far as I know they were not close as adults. They had been raised by their grandparents as Miller's parents died when the girls were young. I believe the sister was probably still in Wisconsin, but the telegraph was sent from Brooklyn.
Interesting theory, though.
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Wow, I'd love to read that. Also, I had never heard about Sacco and Vanzetti before. Apparently they were executed over allegedly killing someone and heisting over $15,000... in today's money, that would be over half a million dollars. The anti-Italian stuff back in those days was also pretty crazy.
That's such a trip. It's so interesting to me to find out what people have been exposed to and what they haven't. You know about so much shit that I don't - I would never have thought you didn't know about S&V.
Also, this is a perfect opportunity for me to post a joke that I wanted to post a few days ago, but held off because it's outmoded, shall we say?
So this elderly woman is sitting around the house one day and the doorbell rings. She goes to the door and it's a Western Union guy. The kid tells the old lady he's got a telegram for her. She asks him if he does singing telegrams, because she's never had one and has always anted one. Kid says that he doesn't do singing telegrams, he just drops them off but the lady begs and begs, and the kid relents. He opens the telegram up, clears his throat, and belts out "Yoooouuuuur sister Edna's dead!"
I originally heard it as Rose, but in deference to you I changed it.
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Woody Guthrie's best album is all about Sacco and Vanzetti. Without that I never would have known.
Without Bob Dylan I would never had known anything.
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Some items from the Shorter OED that may or may not help:
loure (early 18th C. usage) noun. [French, also a kind of bagpipe] Historical: A kind of rustic dance thought to have had a bagpipe accompaniment. Also, a slow baroque dance in 3/4 or 6/4 time.
louring (late Middle English usage through late 16th C.) [French lour verb +ing] 1. Frowning, scowling; angry looking, gloomy, sullen. Late Middle English. 2. Of the clouds, sky, weather, circumstances, etc.: gloomy, dark, threatening. Late Middle English. 3. Lurking, skulking, Late Middle English through late 16th C.
loury adjective. Also lowery. (middle 17th C. usage). [French lour noun, +y] Of the sky etc.: dull, gloomy, threatening.
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A friend of mine emailed me this, when I did a mass emailing to mine my friends' minds:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE6DB1438F93AA1575AC0A96E948260
An obit for Felice Louria, who worked for the Dept of Labor back then. I re-print in fulll:
Felice Jarecky Louria, Labor Advocate, 88
Published: September 29, 1988
LEAD: Felice Jarecky Louria, long active in social issues in New York and California, died of congestive heart failure Monday at the Orange Park (Calif.) Nursing Home. She was 88 years old and lived in Santa Ana, Calif.
Felice Jarecky Louria, long active in social issues in New York and California, died of congestive heart failure Monday at the Orange Park (Calif.) Nursing Home. She was 88 years old and lived in Santa Ana, Calif.
Mrs. Louria worked on wage and migrant-worker issues in the late 1930's and later was the industrial-relations enforcement officer at the New York State Department of Labor.
She is survived by a son, Dr. Henry, of Newport Beach, Calif.; two daughters, Margot, of Washington, and Dr. Ellin Lieberman of Los Angeles; five grandchildren, and two great-grandchildren.
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I already PMd this to Kelli, but here goes again for the rest of you:
This is incredibly awesome! I am going to look further into this but I think there's got to be a connection -- Frieda worked in the NY Dept of Labor before she was appointed assistant to the ambassador to England in the late 1930s...the dates seem to match up...she would have been the right age to have been active in the labor movement at the same time as Frieda...I will look into her history and see if I can find any previous or subsequent correspondence between them...although I would think I would have noticed if there was when I was at the archives.
I just assumed it came from Pauline because it was cryptic and from NY. But this plus the amnesty thing really seems to fall into place. Tell whoever discovered this that they may have just helped solve a historical mystery. Holy cow. My prof is going to be seriously impressed.
You guys are so awesome. I can't believe you did this. Give me a few weeks to call around to some research librarians and I will let you know what I find.
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Whoo! Glad to help, JL! Well, actually, it's all on my friend who is in law school. Thank him. He's all about the research. Mebbe he'll get a shout-out in your thesis, if the find pans out and actually warrants it and stuff?
education.
But seriously, woot! And (at least from personal experience), it's always helpful to have those little things to help propel the thesis forward. Whoo!
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Fuck yes! who's got the awesomest, most kickassingnest twin sister around?? That's right, I DO.
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Fuck yes! who's got the awesomest, most kickassingnest twin sister around?? That's right, I DO.
No, I'VE got the awesomest, most kickassingnest twin sister around! <grin>
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All right you two. Cut it out. This could go on for days.
I will turn this thread around. I'm serious!
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Wait, Kellichou is linnea's sister?
kidding
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The internet is fuck*ng Amazing.
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Once again, a seemingly pointless messageboard about cartoon cats proves to be of use! Yay!
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Once again, a seemingly pointless messageboard about cartoon cats proves to be of use! Yay!
Again? That happened before?
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I was just snooping around on wikipedia and found that "louries" is the common name for the various types of South African turacos and go-away-birds. Interesting. Birds can certainly chant.
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More to the fact, go-away-birds seem to be called that due to the way they sound, here's an article on them (http://www.honoluluzoo.org/go_away_bird.htm), where their "voices" are describe like this:
These birds usually fly very noisily from one tree to another. Their voice consists of one or two syllable barks with some longer wailing notes. Their call consists of a loud and nasal "gwaa." When they are calling, it is almost as if they are saying "go-wayeer" hence the name of the Go-Away bird. They are often seen single, or in pairs. When spotted they are usually perched on a tree branch noisily telling others to "go away." Their call is very helpful to prey animals because they will start calling loudly when a predator such as a leopard enters it's territory.
Also from this page (http://www.kcmo.org/kc150.nsf/web/goawaybird):
The go-away bird gets its name from its well-known call, a harsh "kay-waaay," which warns other birds of a human's presence. The bird is also called the grey lourie or a grey plaintain-eater.
Even more interesting, from this page (http://www.mailsbroadcast.com/b24.goaway.bird.htm):
African go-away bird Grey Lourie Corythaixoides concolor alert hunted animals to flee from predators.
Game hunters are often frustrated, when their hunted quarry reacts by fleeing from the go-away-bird alarm calls.
Go-away bird calls are very helpful to prey animals. They call out loudly gaa-wayrrr "alarm cry" when ever any predators enters its territory.
African go-away bird perched atop tree branch, noisily telling others to "go away" with their loud call "gaa-wayrrr" hence the name "go-away" bird Corythiaxoides Leucogaster.
Poetically speaking... all these descriptions of the sounds made by these birds are undeniably chant-like. And the minor spelling change... I actually misspelled LOURIAS when searching it in wikipedia, which is how I found info on these birds. A bird that warns of danger and prey, now chanting that it's safe to return? That seems like a fairly straight forward poetic allusion. Maybe it's something. Somehow I imagine a group of eight lonely birds chanting more easily than eight lonely people of the same family chanting. Many of the articles refer to how, unlike many other African birds, these birds are not colourful, but rather a solemn gray colour... again, gray = lonely?
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It's even MORE poetic, though, and the allusion works just so well if it does refer to that individual. That would be a coup of dot-connecting historically if it pans out.
Makes you wonder how many loose ends could be tied up if people just brought them up on message boards.
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Awesome, smells!! I think that is a VERY good connection!!
Also, AlohaDawg's comment that it would be cool if it was both the historical figure AND an allusion to the bird, well, that would be a double-whammy that would be pretty well played.
The power of the internets. You just never know.
Poetically speaking... all these descriptions of the sounds made by these birds are undeniably chant-like. And the minor spelling change... I actually misspelled LOURIAS when searching it in wikipedia, which is how I found info on these birds. A bird that warns of danger and prey, now chanting that it's safe to return? That seems like a fairly straight forward poetic allusion. Maybe it's something. Somehow I imagine a group of eight lonely birds chanting more easily than eight lonely people of the same family chanting. Many of the articles refer to how, unlike many other African birds, these birds are not colourful, but rather a solemn gray colour... again, gray = lonely?
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Tried to post this earlier, but my browser crapped itself.
Basically, I have been digging around, and Felice Louria was in the NY DOL at the same time that Frieda Miller was there. They both worked for minimum wage laws, possibly in the same department at the same time. It is hard to imagine them not knowing each other. I am trying to trace Felice Louria's family history such that I can determine how many family members she had in 1953 but it is difficult since the decennial census data for 1940 and later have not yet been released. This also makes it difficult to confirm when exactly she went to California; I think I would have the last piece of hard evidence in my favor if I could prove that she lived in NYC in '53, making the point of origin for the telegram in close proximity to her home. I have a citation from an individual writing a scholarly article in the mid 1960s thanking her and some of the author's "colleagues" in the NY DOL for their input, indicating that she still had connections there, but census data indicating a home address would be more irrefutable. (It isn't clear whether she is one of the DOL colleagues or part of a distinct category.)
The dots do connect, and I wrote to my adviser about this and he was very impressed with our combined efforts. He called it "excellent historical detective work."
So....thanks! You guys rock so hard, I can't even begin to say.
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Early-teens series of novels:
A bunch of teenagers from all over the country and the world, solve mysteries together, strictly through a message board and the accumulated knowledge of all these different people in different places with different resources.
Call the message board something sassy-but-parent-safe like "getaclue.com"... call the series "Get A Clue!"... create a bunch of teenagers who are equal parts stock-character and pluck and...
Start printing money at the cost of your creative dignity.
If you don't end up as rich as JK Rowling, you at least end up as rich as RL Stein.
Which, unless RL Stein doesn't actually exist, is still more than enough.
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Early-teens series of novels:
A bunch of teenagers from all over the country and the world, solve mysteries together, strictly through a message board and the accumulated knowledge of all these different people in different places with different resources.
Call the message board something sassy-but-parent-safe like "getaclue.com"... call the series "Get A Clue!"... create a bunch of teenagers who are equal parts stock-character and pluck and...
Start printing money at the cost of your creative dignity.
If you don't end up as rich as JK Rowling, you at least end up as rich as RL Stein.
Which, unless RL Stein doesn't actually exist, is still more than enough.
Dammit, now I have the Bloodhound Gang theme song stuck in my head.
Also, I only actually read one of RL Stein's books in like 4th grade but it was hysterical at the time. Oh man, so many puke jokes.
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The problem with this concept is that it's really hard to make sitting at a computer dramatic, no matter what's supposed to be going on. I'm sure all of you with a better memory for movies than me can remind us of examples of this fact.
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Yeah but the message board interactions would just be, like, chapter breaks.
One page of message board interactions and then... a chapter of one or more of the characters going out and learning something or preventing a murderer from escaping by tripping him with marbles or something.
And the chapter breaks would be easy to write and count toward the page count!
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Books in message-board style can work. I recently read the novel Train Man, translated from the Japanese, which is written entirely in the format of a Japanese image-posting forum and uses it very well.
What I'm saying here is: LFM, hold onto the dream. Maintain your integrity even in the face of such trials as "possibly having to write the book in a normal style." You can do it.
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You could totally have a tie-in message board where you hire people to write in-character and interact with the fans. And you could serve ads off of it and it would also be a promotional thing. And you could have threads that are mini-mysteries for the fans to solve with their combined brain powers.
There was a video game one time that tried to be immersive, where you entered a bunch of personal information and played through the adventure-style game, the main server would actually call you or send you email with clues, and you were supposed to look things up and try to solve the mystery this way. I heard it sucked actually -- sort of low production values. But it was a neat concept, I thought.
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there was a really brilliant Daily Victim where the guy was in that game, and thought that all these Completely Insane things happening to him were part of it. "oh my god, after I killed the pilot I landed the plane by myself! I took out like three of the SWAT guys with that gun they gave me... it was so realistic!"
at the end, they call him to say "your adventure is just beginning!" and he's like "holy shit, that was just the intro!?"
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Sounds awesome JL.
Cool idea LFM, but where do the cat cock conversations fit in?
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That would be in "Case #23: So THAT'S what a furry is."