The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => History => Topic started by: Bobby Isosceles on September 19, 2007, 04:13:38 pm
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Background information at BBC News. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tees/7002627.stm)
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Well, hopefully he gets the front page of a few major newspapers (mugshot included), and will hereafter be known as a horrible excuse for a human being.
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Well, hopefully he gets the front page of a few major newspapers (mugshot included), and will hereafter be known as a horrible excuse for a human being.
That works for 10 minutes and then the attention span of the public is onto the next thing. This one requires jail time, counseling, and community service working in a hospice or something. Also any one who wants should be allowed to walk up to him and kick him in the balls. For the rest of his life.
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I'm gonna be Kneejerk Liberal and say...
If there's people thinking like that in the world, basically blending into society until they do that sort of thing, we've got a loooooot more troubles than this one case of barbarism. How was this person made? How could he have possibly not come into notice as damaged?
Indefinite commital to a psychiatric facility, I'd say.
He shouldn't be on the streets but there are things to learn from this case.
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I have no idea what to do in a case such as this, other than maybe inject him with paralytics and strap him to the inside of one of those stadium pee troughs with a sign on him detailing his crime.
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Every seven days, for a month, the word "TWAT" is henna tattooed in large block letters on his forehead. Failure to report for his weekly henna application will result in jail time. He must walk to his appointment, and walk back as well.
During this month, passersby are allowed to spit in his face, or fling the following substances upon him: urine, vomit, mud, shaving cream, soup that is not boiling hot, tapioca pudding, breakfast cereal and very old tofu. Hot soup, acidic substances and glue are not allowed, because they could cause physical harm ( he did not physically harm the woman). Semen is allowed, but only if the dispensing of said fluid does not itself violate the law.
At the end of this month, he is allowed to go about his business.
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Rip off his head and sh*t down his neck.
(No, there isn't).
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So, basically, Bobby, no - there isn't anything to do to this guy that doesn't sink to his level.
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There should be some kind of "Registered Asshole" card that he should be forced to carry and self-identify to his friends and neighbors. Basically, the dude should get hard jail time for assaulting someone like that. It's disgusting, and he exposed her to pathogens by his actions, so even if she didn't get infected with anything she should still get victim's compensation, he should have to pay a huge-ass fine, and he should have to do hard time. Those are the ways that we could get back at him, provided the legal system prosecuted and punished accordingly.
However, I still think he should be forcibly tied into a urine trough at a sporting event with a placard listing his crimes.
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give him a series of tests to determine who his favorite lady or man in the world is.
tell this person what he did.
this person would then slap him in the face.
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Not only is there no fitting punishment, all these ideas that focus on public humiliation or spreading awareness of what a spectacular dick this guy is just play right into what's wrong with him in the first place. I wouldn't say this was solely a cry for attention - in his altered state he may have found it justifiably amusing anyway - but if he's the kind of sick fuck who thinks pissing on a dying woman is funny, making front-page headlines for getting in trouble for doing it must seem fuck*ng hilarious.
I suggest a punishment like that of Herostratus: Nobody mentions him or what he did on pain of death - and for fuck's sake make sure the footage stays off of YouTube. In this day and age, though, I don't think that's really any more feasible than any of the other punishments people have mentioned here.
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I'm not by any means attempting to defend this asshole, but how did he know she was dying? Did he think he was just pissing on some passed out drunk?
I mean, because there's some microscopic degree of mitigation if the guy is just intentionally humiliating a helpless drunken homeless person as opposed to a dying lady.
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I would argue that such a degree of mitigation is at best theoretical, AW. Pissing on a helpless fellow human being for Internet publicity remains a reprehensible crime, even if that helpless fellow human being is merely drunk and not dying.
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I would argue that such a degree of mitigation is at best theoretical, AW. Pissing on a helpless fellow human being for Internet publicity remains a reprehensible crime, even if that helpless fellow human being is merely drunk and not dying.
I entirely agree.
However, just today we had a valued member post about his job, which involved discerning between femtomolar amounts of vitamin D. As a lawyer and occasional pseudo-judge, sometimes it's my job to discern between femtomolar amounts of culpability.
And I agreed with this:
Pissing on a helpless fellow human being for Internet publicity remains a reprehensible crime, even if that helpless fellow human being is merely drunk and not dying
Didn't I? I certainly meant to.
I'd like to kick this guy in the nuts just as much as the rest of you. But would you kick him a femtonewton harder if he had pissed on an (relatively) innocent dying woman instead of just a disgusting homeless drunk?
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I'd like to kick this guy in the nuts just as much as the rest of you. But would you kick him a femtonewton harder if he had pissed on an (relatively) innocent dying woman instead of just a disgusting homeless drunk?
Nope, when I wind up for a nutting, I pretty much give it all I've got.
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What did this guy do that was so wrong? Isn't the law of the street that if you see someone laying unconscious then anything goes? And the woman may have been into it. You don't know! I've seen German magazines.
Also, I always enjoy the irony when people who claim to be good christians turn into hangmen at the first thought of someone doing something that they don't like.
JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED
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He's already facing jail time, which seems fine to me. Sure, it's a pretty rotten thing to do, but I don't see what warrants this level of outrage. It sucks that she died, but it's unlikely the guy knew anything about that, and come on, people -- there are much worse things you can do to a person than pissing on them.
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What did this guy do that was so wrong? Isn't the law of the street that if you see someone laying unconscious then anything goes? And the woman may have been into it. You don't know! I've seen German magazines.
Also, I always enjoy the irony when people who claim to be good christians turn into hangmen at the first thought of someone doing something that they don't like.
JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED
Hence me asking if there was a punishment that couldn't sink to his level. In the end I think I have one:
An enormous, enormous fine.
No public humilation, no violence, just something that will financially ruin him and that he will likely have to work a very, very long time to overcome.
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Yeah, I've never seen the appeal of the giant public humiliation fantasy punishments. Fine him, stick him in jail, whatever, don't make a spectacle out of it.
The important thing for me is that, douchebag though he is, you'd want to be very specific about what laws were broken. Does the UK have a good samaritan type law in which it is illegal not to assist someone in this situation? If not he should probably be charged with some level of assault and public indecency but it's a stretch to blame the woman's death on him. As disgusting as his actions were (mainly because the woman was dying, which is something he may or may not have been aware of, I'm with AW on this being important) I don't like the idea of the state punishing someone on the basis of public outrage. We have specific laws with specific punishments. This is a terrible and tragic case but long term it's better if we don't let our emotions govern the judicial system.
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This is a terrible and tragic case but long term it's better if we don't let our emotions govern the judicial system.
This needs to be noted. Tiny can.
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This needs to be noted. Tiny can.
Right you are, Ma'am! Another TC for the Man Down Under.
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This is a terrible and tragic case but long term it's better if we don't let our emotions govern the judicial system.
Don Corelone disagrees. I mean, THEYA SUSPENDA THE SENTENCE! THEYA LOOKED MEA LIKEA I WAS A FOOL! MY DAUGHTER WILLA NEVER BE BEAUTIFULA AGAIN!" There is justice, and then there is justice.
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the difference is that unlike Don Corleone, we live within the bounds of the law.
Also, if I were to go up and kick that guy in the jewels, that would not be similar to Don Corleone taking a guy out. That is about personal honor.
also about talking like there is something in your mouth. Based on recent film viewing, apparently this is what Sicilian Italian sounds like.
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The Don refused the man's request to kill the men. He noted that justice was not about killing the dudes that maimed the daughter, since the daughter was still alive. The punishment must fit the crime.
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see, so, Don Corleone was Just. In this case, he would advocate peeing on the dude, I suppose.
But if it were the Don's daughter, he would have killed the guys. You see-- your emotions keep you from being the just, fair mob boss you ought to be.
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This type of situation is wh I advocate a return in our society to shame-based punishments. A guy who wouldn't blink at being fined or jailed might think twice if the punishment was a public flogging or a simple stockade with a list of his cimes over his head. Friends and family present, of course.
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This type of situation is wh I advocate a return in our society to shame-based punishments. A guy who wouldn't blink at being fined or jailed might think twice if the punishment was a public flogging or a simple stockade with a list of his cimes over his head. Friends and family present, of course.
We need to introduce this to my lawyer friend. He's decided that since he has more money than he knows what to do with it makes more sense to always park illegally and just pay the ticket than it does to actually spend time looking for parking. Because $100 is worth less to him than 10 minutes of circling.
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We need to introduce this to my lawyer friend. He's decided that since he has more money than he knows what to do with it makes more sense to always park illegally and just pay the ticket than it does to actually spend time looking for parking. Because $100 is worth less to him than 10 minutes of circling.
Damn! Your friend is that guy. I hate it when folks do that (http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/081607/haterade-scientist.gif). He probably lights his Cuban cigars with flaming Franklins, though. Bastard.
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We need to introduce this to my lawyer friend. He's decided that since he has more money than he knows what to do with it makes more sense to always park illegally and just pay the ticket than it does to actually spend time looking for parking. Because $100 is worth less to him than 10 minutes of circling.
It is a legend that Sam Walden drove at whatever speed he wanted wherever he wanted because getting to wherever he was going in as little time as possible was worth more to him than the possible speeding ticket.
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It is a legend that Sam Walden drove at whatever speed he wanted wherever he wanted because getting to wherever he was going in as little time as possible was worth more to him than the possible speeding ticket.
I just finished William Gibson's "Pattern Recognition". When the protagonist Cayce goes to Moscow, she sees what she thinks must be emergency vehicles with blue lights speeding around. However, they're private chauffeurs and not emergency vehicles. Apparently the über-wealthy can buy blue lights (similar to what some volunteer fire/EMS services provide their responders) so they can drive at whatever speed they want and basically ignore traffic laws. I wonder if that's still true or if it was just artistic license by Gibson...
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I have always agreed with what the guy in Fight Club says. I mean... why would you speed to get to work? Is work so important that you will die for it?
I drive 5 over, basically.
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I don't know where the information comes from, but this site, dedicated to Christine Lankinski's memory (http://christine-lakinski.gonetoosoon.co.uk/my_index.php) notes that Anderson was accompanied by two other men who participated in this act, along with "several" female witnesses who "laughed at his actions." The idea that there were other particip-ants/witnesses makes the act especially horrible to me. A group that - in this description - included 5 or more people, and no one had the decency to stop this? This is terribly sad. And all the people involved are equally guilty in my book. In this article (http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/39Yobs-urinated-on-my-dying.3190405.jp) her brother says Christine was estranged from the rest of her family for 20 years and notes ""Christine was born with a disability and was teased and ridiculed all through her life. She was constantly having to change her address because she was always being picked on." The same article notes that she was mentally the age of a teenager and well known in the neighbourhood.
There really is no punishment... I mean, I want to say fix it: make it so these people actually feel the horrible, soul-crushing guilt that they should feel. Make it so that they spend the rest of their lives doing only good, never able to feel that they have done enough good, always knowing that they can not undo this horrible act... but I know life doesn't work that way. So no - there is no punishment.
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There really is no punishment... I mean, I want to say fix it: make it so these people actually feel the horrible, soul-crushing guilt that they should feel. Make it so that they spend the rest of their lives doing only good, never able to feel that they have done enough good, always knowing that they can not undo this horrible act... but I know life doesn't work that way. So no - there is no punishment.
Seconded. Also, canned.
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I don't know where the information comes from, but this site, dedicated to Christine Lankinski's memory notes that Anderson was accompanied by two other men who participated in this act, along with "several" female witnesses who "laughed at his actions." The idea that there were other particip-ants/witnesses makes the act especially horrible to me. A group that - in this description - included 5 or more people, and no one had the decency to stop this? This is terribly sad.
taking psych classes has made me depressingly used to this shit really fast.
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Apparently I am really, really callous.