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Trivial Pursuits => History => Topic started by: jay-ell on November 25, 2003, 02:44:30 am

Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jay-ell on November 25, 2003, 02:44:30 am
I just finished my big fat killer research paper...anybody else wrapping up the semester?  I still have a final, but after this paper that will be a breeze...who else is doing a little dance in front of the computer right now?
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jough on November 25, 2003, 03:02:38 am
Most of my visitors/customers are students, so I'll be sorry to see the semester end.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: wombat on November 25, 2003, 03:09:17 am
Thank you for reminding me it is near the end of a semester, because now I can celebrate the fact that for the first time in years and years and years, it is meaningless to me that it is the end of a semester.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: V-Adore on November 25, 2003, 03:17:30 am
We're not quite to the end of the semester, but we're getting really close. Today was probably my last test in Blow-Off Guaranteed-A ElectiveHistory of Science.

The idea of not living a life where "end of semester" matters frightens and confuses me. I suspect this means I may have to go into teaching.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: AlohaDawg on November 25, 2003, 04:28:00 am
I'd say that makes you a natural-born academic, V-adore!
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: AugustWest on November 25, 2003, 04:56:59 am
What is this semester of which you speak?

It's coming back to me...  Semester.  Yes.  Now I recall.

But I am confused.  Semesters end with the Christmas holiday.  It is before Thanksgiving.  How can your semester be over so early?
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: Mite on November 25, 2003, 05:54:29 am
Three more weeks with the little brats. Then I will be doing all kinds of dancin' - until it will be time to come back.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jay-ell on November 25, 2003, 06:15:46 am
Quote from: "AugustWest"
What is this semester of which you speak?

It's coming back to me...  Semester.  Yes.  Now I recall.

But I am confused.  Semesters end with the Christmas holiday.  It is before Thanksgiving.  How can your semester be over so early?


My research paper is done.  I have one more class and a final, but that will be a cakewalk compared to what I've done so far this semester.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: wombat on November 25, 2003, 11:48:10 am
Quote from: "AlohaDawg"
I'd say that makes you a natural-born academic, V-adore!


Someone said this about me once, and at the time I felt it was a compliment.  I didn't know enough academics at the time.

RESIST, V-ADORE.  THERE IS LIFE WITHOUT SEMESTERS!
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jay-ell on November 25, 2003, 01:28:52 pm
JOIN US, V-ADORE...SEMESTERS AND CREDIT-HOURS ARE YOUR FRIENDS...TAKE REFUGE IN OUR BUREAUCRACY...ACCUMULATE HIDEOUS AMOUNTS OF DEBT...OUR INTEREST RATES ARE QUITE REASONABLE...ACADEMIA IS A SOFT, NURTURING PLACE TO BE...WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU...WHO SPELL WORDS CORRECTLY...AND ARE FAMILIAR WITH PROPER LANGUAGE USAGE...

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RESIST...RESISTANCE IS
...*...huh?  What?  Oh, my, I must have been in some sort of trance.  What did I just type?  

Anyway, V, take it from a compulsive grad-student -- get out while you can.

What do you mean, mixed messages?
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: Carlos del Vaca on November 25, 2003, 01:30:40 pm
Soon, you will get to work.  And then there is no semester break.  It just goes on and on and on.  Until you die.   :cry:
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jay-ell on November 25, 2003, 01:39:00 pm
Quote from: "carlosdelvaca"
Soon, you will get to work.  And then there is no semester break.  It just goes on and on and on.  Until you die.   :cry:


Or, you could be insane like someone I know, and try to work full time and go to school, and make yourself physically ill from the stress!  Then you get the promise of relief from a semester break, but that promise goes unfulfilled for years, until you get fed up and quit your job, because being poor starts to not look so bad in comparison!

But, I don't reccomend it.  You know.  'Cause of the insanity.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jough on November 25, 2003, 05:10:07 pm
I prefer happiness to stress and a regular schedule, although poverty and happiness rarely go hand in hand.

I miss the uselessness of academia, where you could pretty much do whatever you wanted without consequence because nothing really mattered.

But that's the problem, too.  There is no consequence. Everything you do is trivial.   So you don't really have freedom because you have no responsibility.

The real problem with getting sucked into academia (either as a teacher or student) is that there's little dire risk involved.  You teach well, you do well on a test, so what?

In the real world, you don't pay attention you can get flattened by a piano.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: AugustWest on November 25, 2003, 06:48:04 pm
Stupid pianos.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: slink on November 25, 2003, 07:11:32 pm
Well, if you don't teach well, you get fired. You don't do well on the test you might get chucked out. You abuse a student, you get hauled into court.
Nothing's as bad as those damn pianos though.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: wombat on November 25, 2003, 07:33:46 pm
Quote from: "slink"
Well, if you don't teach well, you get fired.


Um, where does THIS happen?  Things must be really different across the pond there.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: slink on November 25, 2003, 07:39:05 pm
Quote from: "wombat"

Um, where does THIS happen?  Things must be really different across the pond there.


It's been known to happen. I mean really bad teaching obviously. You know, not bothering to learn anything to teach, not turning up. Being a really bad teacher.
And it's more in the circle of academia - lecturers and whatnot. There have been lecturers at Edinburgh University who have been either, 'let go' or persuaded to leave on amicable terms because they were considered sub standard. Remembering Edinburgh is often listed third after Oxford and Cambridge.
And yet they'll employ me!
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: V-Adore on November 25, 2003, 08:08:55 pm
Quote from: "wombat"
RESIST, V-ADORE.  THERE IS LIFE WITHOUT SEMESTERS!

Seriously, are you sure about this? The thought of an entirely different paradigm confuses and frightens me.

(For the record: my mother is an elementary-school teacher, and my is just resuming teaching after a long hiatus involving working in college Residence Life offices and getting a Ph.D. I honestly suspect I'm the equivalent of Bubble Boy when it comes to this stuff.)
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: andalucia on November 25, 2003, 09:52:34 pm
Gar.  My semester ends at in mid-January.  I am perplexed.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: wombat on November 25, 2003, 11:51:07 pm
Quote from: "slink"
Quote from: "wombat"

Um, where does THIS happen?  Things must be really different across the pond there.


It's been known to happen. I mean really bad teaching obviously. You know, not bothering to learn anything to teach, not turning up. Being a really bad teacher.
And it's more in the circle of academia - lecturers and whatnot.


In ten years in academia in this country (not even counting the five in grad school) I never saw bad teaching affect anyone's career.  Whereas I did see good teachers with bad research records fail to get and/or keep jobs.  If you literally never showed up physically for class you could lose your job, but as long as you're there it doesn't matter what you do.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: wombat on November 25, 2003, 11:59:46 pm
Quote from: "V-Adore"
Quote from: "wombat"
RESIST, V-ADORE.  THERE IS LIFE WITHOUT SEMESTERS!

Seriously, are you sure about this? The thought of an entirely different paradigm confuses and frightens me.


Please don't go into teaching just because you can't think of anything else to do.  Especially the whole getting a PhD and an academic job thing.  It's not the nice life it used to be - which your professors, at least those who got their jobs a long time ago, may not realize when they advise you.  Try to think of at least one other thing that you could seriously imagine doing with your life, and make sure you are really making a choice, not following the path of least resistance.

Whoa, sorry.  Guess the undergraduate advisor in me isn't quite dead yet.  Down, girl!
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: sjlimmer on November 26, 2003, 12:22:48 am
Quote from: "wombat"


Please don't go into teaching just because you can't think of anything else to do.  Especially the whole getting a PhD and an academic job thing.  It's not the nice life it used to be - which your professors, at least those who got their jobs a long time ago, may not realize when they advise you.  Try to think of at least one other thing that you could seriously imagine doing with your life, and make sure you are really making a choice, not following the path of least resistance.

Whoa, sorry.  Guess the undergraduate advisor in me isn't quite dead yet.  Down, girl!


For the first few years of grad school, I swore that there was no way I'd ever become a professor.  But, slowly, my advisor may be talking me into it.  I still think a national lab sounds better, but since I'm only interested in pure research (applications?  Pshaw!)  there is no place for me in industry. This leaves remaining in academia as one of the very few options.  Maybe it's different (better?) in science/engineering, but if I do become a professor it's certainly not because I want to teach.

Damn, why did I ever stop selling CDs for a living?

Oh yeah, it sucked.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: wombat on November 26, 2003, 01:26:48 am
Quote from: "sjlimmer"


....but if I do become a professor it's certainly not because I want to teach.



You're not the only one, this is the normal situation.  And isn't this tragic for everyone involved?

The job market may be better in your field, but make sure of this before you decide.  How old is your prof - did s/he get a first job fifteen or twenty years ago?  If so, you may be getting an unrealistically rosy picture. What happened in the academic job market to his or her grad students recently?  What's the salary differential between industry and the academic jobs you are likely to get?
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: sjlimmer on November 26, 2003, 01:56:37 am
Quote from: "wombat"
Quote from: "sjlimmer"


....but if I do become a professor it's certainly not because I want to teach.



You're not the only one, this is the normal situation.  And isn't this tragic for everyone involved?


Not necessarily.  I've had a number of professors in grad school who are here to do research, and being an instructor is secondary to them.  That doesn't stop many of them from being quite fine instructors, who have taught me a lot.  I've also met a minority of people who seem happy to teach, but are absolutely horrible at it.  Motivation to teach is not the sole indication of teaching ability.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: V-Adore on November 26, 2003, 02:19:13 am
Quote from: "wombat"
Quote from: "V-Adore"
Quote from: "wombat"
RESIST, V-ADORE.  THERE IS LIFE WITHOUT SEMESTERS!

Seriously, are you sure about this? The thought of an entirely different paradigm confuses and frightens me.


Please don't go into teaching just because you can't think of anything else to do.  Especially the whole getting a PhD and an academic job thing.

That's entirely fair advice. Honestly, I figure I'll go for the Ph.D., but that's because I'm going into biology and apparently getting work is heinous without the full doctorate in a specialty. Aside from that... I dunno. Maybe teaching, maybe not.

So... uh... yeah.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: wombat on November 26, 2003, 02:25:32 am
Quote from: "sjlimmer"
 Motivation to teach is not the sole indication of teaching ability.


Sure, and lots of people are motivated and have no talent.  But it's a pure accident that any college professors are good teachers, because they're not selected for that ability. (And in most cases not rewarded for it either - not in real terms like tenure or raises.) There seems to be something wrong with that.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jay-ell on November 26, 2003, 02:40:11 am
Quote from: "wombat"
Sure, and lots of people are motivated and have no talent.  But it's a pure accident that any college professors are good teachers, because they're not selected for that ability. (And in most cases not rewarded for it either - not in real terms like tenure or raises.) There seems to be something wrong with that.


That's why offices like the one in which I work (http://www.ncsu.edu/fctl) exist.  It's a changing field, albeit at glacial speed.  

For the record, I'm going for my PhD in History specifically because I do want to teach.  And write books, as well, but mostly the teaching thing.  I considered teaching high school, until I realized that that isn't actually teaching so much as it is babysitting.  Plus, I don't like teenagers.  If for some reason I'm not able to get my PhD, I still plan to get my MA and teach adult ed at a community college or something.  Anything to stay out of the high schools...(shudder)
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: AugustWest on November 26, 2003, 02:45:20 am
I'm gonna be a cowboy when I grow up.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: andalucia on November 26, 2003, 02:49:41 am
Quote from: "jldunston"
Plus, I don't like teenagers.  


Hi.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jay-ell on November 26, 2003, 02:53:51 am
Oh, andalucia, you're not a real teenager.  You know that.  Around here, you're just another one of the guys...erm...gals.  I'm talking about that 13 - 16 age range that's just impossible to deal with.  I didn't even like me when I was fourteen.  


Also, I am a jerk who doesn't think before posting.  Apologies.  
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: AugustWest on November 26, 2003, 02:54:12 am
Eh, they're OK sauteed with wine and shallots.

Damn!  Now I'll have to move this thread to The Kitchen.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jough on November 26, 2003, 02:56:02 am
I don't know, August, threads about "eating" teenage girls could get you into trouble.

As you know.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: AugustWest on November 26, 2003, 03:03:52 am
Well Heavens to Murgatroyd!  I didn't mean it like that...

I was just making a cannibalism joke.  Pederasty was not meant to be implied in the least.

Just good ol' safe cannibalism.

Never mind.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: andalucia on November 26, 2003, 05:09:15 am
*cries*
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: AlohaDawg on November 26, 2003, 06:42:33 am
Don't cry! Someone will kill you and eat you if you ask nice enough! Promise!
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: wombat on November 26, 2003, 12:33:53 pm
Quote from: "jldunston"
For the record, I'm going for my PhD in History specifically because I do want to teach.  


You're a saint.  Good luck.  Make sure you get a job in a small college where they care about teaching.

It's teenagers in large groups that are the problem, not individuals.  Tell the truth, andalucia, I'll bet you don't like most teenagers in large groups either.  The pack mentality takes over and any appreciation of things like history teaching and andalucia's fine qualities, it flies out the window.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: andalucia on November 26, 2003, 12:55:30 pm
Quote from: "wombat"
It's teenagers in large groups that are the problem, not individuals.  Tell the truth, andalucia, I'll bet you don't like most teenagers in large groups either.  The pack mentality takes over and any appreciation of things like history teaching and andalucia's fine qualities, it flies out the window.


Oh god yeah, wholeheartedly agree.  I was just taking my 15 minutes of fame as the Youthful One... I'm sure I hate teenagers more than most of you... Just that people give me funny looks when I complain about them as much as I want to.  I know I could never teach 'em.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: V-Adore on November 26, 2003, 01:36:09 pm
See, yeah, if/when I go into teaching, it's going to be somewhere small. I couldn't stand to attend a gigantic state college; why would I conceivably want to teach at one?
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jay-ell on November 26, 2003, 02:13:55 pm
Quote from: "V-Adore"
See, yeah, if/when I go into teaching, it's going to be somewhere small. I couldn't stand to attend a gigantic state college; why would I conceivably want to teach at one?


I thought that, until I came to work at a large public university with a small humanities department.  NCSU is basically an engineering school, so the History department is small and sheltered enough to allow for very small classes (<20 at the 400 level and up, usually a mix of grads and undergrads).  I came from a private liberal arts Women's college, but the biggest culture shift for me was having boys in the class with me.  It was wierd.  

Definitely don't wanna teach a class of more than 40, though.  Gaaah.  I have nightmares about that.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: CortJstr on November 26, 2003, 02:45:09 pm
I took a physics class that was so large that it filled 3 stadium-style rooms. Unless you were 20-minutes early you had to watch the teacher on closed-circuit TV. They even taped it so you could go to the media library and watch the class later if you missed it.

This was the same guy who kept a database of every paper he received and had a program that would compare your paper vs. all the old ones to see how likely it was you'd plagiarized.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: wombat on November 26, 2003, 03:06:16 pm
Quote from: "CortJstr"
I took a physics class that was so large that it filled 3 stadium-style rooms.....

This was the same guy who kept a database of every paper he received and had a program that would compare your paper vs. all the old ones to see how likely it was you'd plagiarized.


Now that I'm out of the business I can say this: If you're forced to take a class this large, you're justified in cheating.  So little effort is being put into teaching you, why should you make any more effort back?

I'm not saying you SHOULD cheat - the consequences of getting caught are too bad, and anyway, probably the only way you might learn something in such a class is by doing some work on your own.  But there's a reason the teacher of this class needed this database.  Although it's probably no fault of his own (the size of the class is probably someone else's idea), he is violating some kind of unspoken contract between teacher and student, so of course students will violate it on their side.

Hooray to all of you who want to teach small classes at small colleges, but remember that the problem is: the academic job market is so bad that you might not have your choice.

PS: Lots of good (and amusing) advice on academic careers here: http://chronicle.com/jobs/archive/advice/mentor.htm
and also see the first person essays elsewhere on that site.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: CortJstr on November 26, 2003, 08:59:55 pm
The problem is that considering the efficiency of his system and that lying/cheating/stealing has only one punishment (being asked to leave) there weren't a lot of people willing to follow your advice.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: V-Adore on November 29, 2003, 02:38:46 am
So... now I have no idea what I want to do. At all. Whee. (This is after being lectured by my History of Science prof about how getting a job in science is so difficult and awful and if you don't have a reputation by 35 you're sunk anyway...)
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: AlohaDawg on November 29, 2003, 03:27:33 am
True, but he didn't say what SORT of reputation. You can do a lot by 35.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: V-Adore on November 29, 2003, 03:30:29 am
True. I guess I have enough time to develop pet-suitable strains of bioluminscent hamsters and such. And probably to put a down payment on my Evil Mountaintop Lab.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jay-ell on December 10, 2003, 07:29:12 pm
Quote from: "Dr. Nancy Mitchell"
I'm sitting here, the day after Thanksgiving, correcting papers.  My mother is here.  I tell her, as I pick up yours, "This one's going to be good."  I read it aloud to her.  As I finish, she says, "Give that girl an A!"  

I agree.  It is a splendid paper: extremely well written, well researched, fun and interesting.  

All I would have wanted would have been some discussion of Shaw's and Saunders' sources, since you rely on them so much.  It seems important to discuss their reliability in the text.  Also -- if possible, I would have liked more discussion of how the film was recived in the US.  But I quibble.  It is excellent work.  

A


The paper in question is here (http://mywebpage.netscape.com/jldunston/ResearchPaper.htm), for those geeky enough to be interested.  

Wooo!  I win!  I win at life!
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: pmcd9 on December 10, 2003, 08:13:24 pm
Let me be the first to congratulate you on  your stellar achievment.

A splendid piece of work.  I think i'll read it again.

~Paul
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: slink on December 10, 2003, 08:50:57 pm
I like the look of this.
Two of my favourite things - politics and literature!
I'ma print it out shortly and read it.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: pmcd9 on December 10, 2003, 08:51:35 pm
However, I should point out that this topic now has nothing to do with end of semester celebrations and should be split into it's own thread.  Might I suggest 'JL writes a grade A paper.'

~Paul
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jay-ell on December 10, 2003, 08:53:17 pm
No, it's very much an end of semester celebration.  This is the grade for the big fat killer research paper I was dancing over in the first post of this thread.  We've come full circle -- for a change.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: Pedro Picasso on December 10, 2003, 09:04:14 pm
Quote from: "V-Adore"
Honestly, I figure I'll go for the Ph.D., but that's because I'm going into biology and apparently getting work is heinous without the full doctorate in a specialty.


My older brother was a bio major.  When he got out, he worked in a bio-supply shop filling equipment orders for Ph.D.s.  It was the best job he could find, and there are a lot of biology companies around here.  Heinous a-ness.  Happy Ending: He's in grad school now for landscape architecture and loves it.

Edit: Some filter-fiend doesn't like certain words that sound like a-ness.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jough on December 10, 2003, 11:36:47 pm
Really?  Is anus filtered?

Anyway, congratulations JLD for your A.  You've earned it, kiddo.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: V-Adore on December 10, 2003, 11:48:31 pm
Congratulations, JL! A very nice paper.

Anyway, we finally are reaching the end of the semester; I've got two more finals (both tests, no papers) to go, and I'm cruising. First act of my freedom will be to do absolutely nothing on Saturday -- well, possibly play lots of Angband (http://angband.oook.cz) and post a great deal here, but that's it.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: AlohaDawg on December 11, 2003, 01:05:24 am
Good criminy, I'm not about to read your paper....but congrats on the grade. Grades are interesting, so meaningful in the short term. Like a picture of a flower; they last forever and always look nice, but so not real as time goes by.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: wombat on December 11, 2003, 01:12:44 am
Grades may fade, but comments on a paper like the ones JL quoted can damage a person for life - that's the kind of thing that makes someone think it would be a pleasant experience to go to graduate school...
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: AlohaDawg on December 11, 2003, 01:35:34 am
I thought grad school was fun, but I did it the fun way:

1) the government paid for it
2) I did it while working my regular full time job
3) I got to fly to my classes, which lasted two weeks at a time on-site and the rest online

Everyone should do it this way. It makes it seem like it really has some connection to what you do in real life.
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: jay-ell on December 11, 2003, 02:09:02 am
Quote from: "wombat"
Grades may fade, but comments on a paper like the ones JL quoted can damage a person for life - that's the kind of thing that makes someone think it would be a pleasant experience to go to graduate school...


Yes, I was exceptionally fortunate this time.  Graduate school is a hellish place where the students are verbally and physically flogged daily, and demoralization and apathy reign.  Don't give in to the siren's call of the master's degree.  You will emerge bitterly scarred.  You will learn, through hard experience, the meaning of the phrase "pyrrhic victory."  (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pyrrhic%20victory)
Title: End of semester celebrations...
Post by: slink on December 11, 2003, 02:14:30 pm
Great paper.
And, even better, I didn't know about it either, but am always interested in politics.
You managed the holy trinity for papers - prose, fact and humour!
Well OK, it's my holy trinity for papers... And I either do well or hideously badly when it comes to grading.
We'll see how my next essay on Crime in the UK goes!

But anyway, good stuff...

*off to go track down Animal Farm*
Interestingly it also answered the question of why I didn't like it much when I saw it when I was about 8. I had real problems with some of it, and now I know it's because of it's propogandist messages.
Even at 8 I woudl have preferred the socialist message of it to come through.