The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Achewood => Achewood => Topic started by: spencersage on September 09, 2009, 07:20:27 am
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Hey guys, n00b here. Avid Achewood reader, read the whole archive about a year ago, have started re-reading, and I'm thinking about just buying in print form instead. I'm having some trouble deciding what to get/which editions, what have you, and I'm looking for a little guidance from the pros. (I promise, I've already scoured the forum/achewood shop/amazon and can't seem to find the information I need)
I know that Dark hoss has published TGOF and Vol. II. I know that TGOF doesn't include the alt-texts or Chris' commentary (bummer). I know that Vol. II includes both. What I would like to know is:
What are the differences between the original Vol. II and the Dark hoss Vol. II? (Besides the cover, etc.)
Do the original compilations available through the Achewood site contain alt-texts? commentary? Do they contain every comic? (are they "complete," essentially)
If I'm looking for the complete experience in print, do I want the originals, or do I want to wait as Dark hoss slowly anthologizes each one into a sleek collector's edition?
Does Dark hoss even plan to do so?
Sorry for all of the questions, but I've looked absolutely EVERYWHERE and can't find the answers. Thanks in advance for the help, guys!
Spence
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I was going to say no one could answer your question about the differences in Vol II because no one has seen the Dark hoss volume, it was supposed to come out on the 14th or something like that, but I just looked at Amazon and they say it is in stock now. So maybe someone else who actually pre-ordered instead of leaving it sitting on their wish list can answer.
But in any case - isn't the obvious answer that the complete experience means owning them in both versions?
Really, I am surprised that he is still selling his vol II compilation - he must have gotten a really great contract with Dark hoss. I would snap them all up in case Vol II doesn't sell as well as GOF and Dark hoss doesn't want to publish any more volumes unless he stops selling his own compilations. But that's just me. You don't want the answer from a fanatic, go ask somewhere else.
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1st important point: The DH GOF book is the only place to get the GOF strips in print form. The self-published books skip over the GOF entirely. This is why the description for Volume 8 says "selected strips from December 23, 2005 to September 19, 2006" instead of "all strips." He did this to help drive sales of the DH book so they'd be more likely to publish future editions. Can't say I blame him.
2nd important point: no books to date include the alt-text. I think Onstad said in an interview that the new DH Vol. 2 will, however.
Wombat is right, the professionally printed DH Vol. 2 was supposed to come out next week. I got an e-mail from Amazon saying it would be ready early and the expected delivery is now today. Also, despite the Vol. 2 name this book supposedly starts at strip 1. I think the implication is that GOF was Vol. 1. Which makes no sense, but whatever.
My guess is depending on sales DH will indeed publish the entire archive but only time will tell.
Oh, and the self-published books do occasionally skip a strip. At least volume 1 did, but Onstad said that was by mistake, not design. I've never compared the latter editions to see if they are missing any content.
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OK, I received the DH book and read it today. Here are my thoughts from my Visual Bookshelf review:
Don't let the "Volume 2" fool you, this is the beginning strips of Achewood. Apparently it's called that since the Great Outdoor Fight book was released first even though it takes place much later.
This is the first Achewood book to include the strip titles and alt text (or title text, if you want to be picky) which really adds to the experience. Many of the strips also feature commentary from Onstad, with varying levels of usefulness. We do find out what Teodor is saying when he's with the Dirtiest Dudes in Town but some of the commentary boils down to "boy, I sucked at drawing back then" and "the strip sure sucked before Ray came along, huh?"
In fact, all the pre-Ray strips are relegated to an appendix and lack any commentary at all other than a a short introduction apologizing for them existing. This section appears to be "selected strips" as there are several obvious omissions. I'm not sure if the main section of the book also skips strips as I didn't check the archive one-by-one but I wouldn't be surprised to find some gaps. As an anal-retentive completist this bothers me.
Also included is "A History of Achewood" explaining in-universe how Philippe, Teodor, Cornelius, and Lie Bot came to live w/ Chris and his wife.
So, this or the self-published volumes? If forced to choose I'd say this. Those volumes are also known to skip strips as well and I feel the bonus content in this book is much, much stronger. It's also much less likely to fall apart in your hands.
All it needs is a personalization option like the self-published books used to have back in the day.
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Dammit, why'd you have to go and post that great review. Now I have to spend more money I should be saving on another Achewood book. I have most of self-published books, but the inclusion of the alt-text plus commentary (even if it's mediocre, I'm a sucker for that stuff) sold me.
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Huh, Onstad thinks that some of his greatest work is so horrible he feels he needs to apologize for it's existence.
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Onstad's perception of his own work is the saddest thing.
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Onstad's perception of his own work is the saddest thing.
This.
The pre-Cat strips are different from what Achewood became. But they had a gentle absurdity to them that was so appealing. Phillippe is standing on it, people. He's standing on it.
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Onstad's perception of his own work is the saddest thing.
You get an extra can because the first Saddest Thing strip is actually in the Apology Appendix.
The reasoning he gave for putting these at the end was that if somebody new picked up the book, turned to page 1 and saw Philippe is Standing on It they'd turn away in disgust and never look at Achewood again. Or something like that.
The first strip in the book is now The Dirtiest Dudes in Town.
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You know, that seems fair. They might not turn away in disgust, but they'd be surprised at most of the rest of the book. The first few pages ought to give a good idea of what the person who buys the book is in for. The early strips, the sensibility is the same but it's more like a different book from the same author.
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Huh, Onstad thinks that some of his greatest work is so horrible he feels he needs to apologize for it's existence.
creative people are insecure attention whores.
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ALSO: water wet, sky blue, sex awesome.
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Apology Appendix.
This made me laugh. I like that concept.
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It makes sense. Some of those original strips were neat, but not in a way that held at all a candle to the rest of the first few years.
And somewhere out there, someone saw http://achewood.com/index.php?date=08252005 (http://achewood.com/index.php?date=08252005) and closed the window without ever looking back.
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The best thing about that strip is its the preceding one to this strip (http://achewood.com/index.php?date=08262005).
Ray's short?
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Yeah, I liked the gentle absurdity, the lack of continuity. I like the new stuff too, Cartilage Head couldn't have existed in the old Achewood because that world wasn't explicitly bizarre enough to allow him to, but I still dug it.
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I got the book and have not finished it yet but here are my preliminary observations. First: yeah, I guess if you were only going to buy either this or his self-published books, you'd have to buy this, because it has many paragraphs worth of words that are new to the book. And if can't say you are one of the cool kids who bought the first self-published volumes back in the day, maybe there is less point to having them in addition to this.
Second: as I am sure I don't need to mention, Chris Onstad is a god to me, but ick, what was he thinking with this typeface that is used for the titles of the strips, which is very irritating. And before you say the book designer chose it, he is one of the two people credited as the designers.
Last for now, I think it is a little unfair to say the first strips are in the back because he's embarassed by them. I think his intro of them explains pretty much what I said in my earlier post. The first few pages of a book need to tell you what the rest of the book is like. He could have just not printed the first strips at all, after all - it's not like he doesn't have plenty of other material to make up a long enough book. There was no reason for him to spend 35 pages of an only 135 page book on these if he didn't want to.
I plan to return with a detailed review of the strip commentary, which I fear is a terrible idea on a par with the DVD commentary track, but which I have great hope that my hero will turn into a great literary form of its own.
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I like DVD commentary tracks, they give an insight into what the people behind the scenes are like, and more importantly into the creative process. If it weren't for DVD commentary tracks I wouldn't know half as much as I do about film.
And I think they work for comics too, at least in general (haven't read WSPoUG yet); Arkham Asylum (the book, not the game) was great on its own, but then I read Grant Morrison's annotation/commentary thing, and it opened up new layers of meaning. And the Calvin & Hobbes 10th anniversary book pretty much speaks for its own merits.
ADDENDUM: This just popped into my head: Would anyone have ever thought of DVD commentary tracks if it weren't for MST3K? Or is sitting down and talking about a movie while watching it such a universal experience that it would have happened anyway? But by that logic, MST3K itself is some kind of destined thing, a Platonic ideal made manifest on the physical plane, which waited until the technology existed to make it real. Like the flying car, or cold fusion. Or toothbrushes. I'm okay with this view, actually.
What if there was some kind of pre-motion picture version of MST that has been lost to history? Like, a troupe putting on a production of Titus Andronicus, but in the front row is three guys making witty remarks about the play, and they are who the audience has really paid to see. That would rule. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I'm going to believe that this happened.
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You must listen to different DVD commentaries than I do. Or do they get better halfway through? Because I can never go more than ten minutes without wanting to gouge my ears out. They're all talking about what sandwiches they had while waiting for that scene to be filmed or something. It always seems like they're not even trying, it's just, hey, look at this, we are getting paid to sit around and watch this movie we made.
As for the strip commentary, I haven't got very far but already the third one made me laugh out loud, so it seems to be a much better idea.
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DVD commentary is hit or miss, but the commentary track for This is Spinal Tap is as good as the movie, and certainly elevates it to an art form.
I just got my copy of the book in the mail today. Haven't read enough of it to really say anything new, except that Onstad doesn't give himself enough credit for his earliest work. I say if people aren't hooked by the first strip, fuck 'em. But not really. His explanation makes sense and I don't get the impression that he's embarrassed by the early strips.
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Okay, imagine (if possible) that Achewood actually had to be syndicated in order to be seen by the public anywhere. What would we see in anthologies? Only the stuff after it hit its stride and got picked up by the Syndicate. All the pre-Ray stuff is the equivalent of the cartoonist's desperate submissions to potential syndicates back in the bad old days. Finding his voice, tweaking it till it hums. We're lucky that stuff is even visible -- for free -- to us. And still purchasable in self-published volumes. We're especially lucky he's willing and able to put it in Dock Hoss boooks.
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The only commentary track I've ever watched in it's entirety was for The Conversation by Coppola. I think I went for the commentary because I love that movie so much I wanted to watch it again immediately after seeing it. Coppola gave a great deal of insight into the making of the film. His commentary was mostly about the film. He spoke a little bit about what was going on while the film was being made, but mostly he spoke about his creative process.
I've watched a few minutes of several commentary tracks that were something like Wombat describes. I guess a commentary is a good idea if they have something to say, but most don't. However they have become de rigeur so it's just something to skip.
Oh wait, I almost forgot, I also watched the entire commentary track to UHF, with Weird Al. It was mostly bullshit, but funny.
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I did exaggerate Onstad's description of "Achewood before it was Achewood", clearly.
The NewsRadio commentaries were pretty painful but had just enough interesting stories to keep me listening. Like the little war they had with Kathy Griffith on Suddenly Susan.
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DVD commentary is hit or miss, but the commentary track for This is Spinal Tap is as good as the movie, and certainly elevates it to an art form.
Would you say it goes to 11?
Nah.
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The only commentary track I've ever watched in it's entirety was for The Conversation by Coppola.
It's been forever since I've seen that, but ain't it a great movie? Gene Hackman, dude, Gene Hackman.
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The NewsRadio commentaries were pretty painful but had just enough interesting stories to keep me listening. Like the little war they had with Kathy Griffith on Suddenly Susan.
I love me some NewsRadio. Great writing, great acting, great show.
And I'm not ashamed to admit I have a huge crush on Vicki Lewis. The episode where she goes to the banquet with Bill in the tiny little dress... BOING!
Sorry, TMI, I know...
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More than the appendix, the strip commentaries are where he has a tendency to apologize for things that need no apology. But enough of them are really funny instead that I am willing to cut him some slack. The strip has developed an awful lot since the start, and it's hard to grow up in public like that.
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It's been forever since I've seen that, but ain't it a great movie? Gene Hackman, dude, Gene Hackman.
It's really one of the greatest movies ever made in my humble opinion. I think I've seen it about 4-5 times and I rarely watch a movie more than once.
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the first time i saw the conversation i was about halfway through before i realized it was coppola, not cronenberg. hackman's fantastic in most everything, but especially in that.
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I really like the commentary on Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz, I've watched them both multiple times just for the commentary. Simon Pegg and Edgar Wright are complete movie nerds and it's fun to listen to movie nerds talk about their movie. They should start doing commentaries for other movies as well.
Worst commentary ever (that I've bothered to sit through) was Brad Pitt and Edward Norton on Fight Club because Pitt doesn't seem to care at all and Norton uncomfortably passionate about random things (Oh, the new VW Beetle is car companies selling people faux nostalgia of a previous generation? That's nice, but please get back to talking about the movie.)
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Worst commentary ever (that I've bothered to sit through) was Brad Pitt and Edward Norton on Fight Club because Pitt doesn't seem to care at all and Norton uncomfortably passionate about random things (Oh, the new VW Beetle is car companies selling people faux nostalgia of a previous generation? That's nice, but please get back to talking about the movie.)
I think I would love that.
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Hey all, just wanted to say thanks for all of the advice. Went ahead and bought both Dark hoss anthologies today, and I love 'em. Of course, being as anal as I am, I'm probably going to print out all of the alt-texts for GOF and tape them into the book. I might even compare Volume 2's contents to the the website and print out any comics that are missing from the anthology and tape them in, as well.
Yeah, I know, I know.
Once again, thanks for all of the help... you guys rock!
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don't be a stranger
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Hello All! I'm back, and I've finished analyzing Achewood: Volume II: Worst Song, Played on Ugliest Guitar. Now, I say analyzed, because I've already read it for pleasure a couple of times, and loved every page. It is a great buy, not expensive, and I highly recommend it. No, I went back and compared the book, strip by strip, to the site to see if there were any omissions, just for the sake of completeness. There are a few, but they seem to be due to page or content constraints; there's really nothing that was omitted that would be worth getting upset over. Especially when you look at how awesome and gorgeous the whole anthology is. Anyway, I thought I'd share my findings just so everyone could be aware of what is and is not in the book:
-This anthology is 136 pages long and covers the strips which ran from 10/01/2001 - Phillipe is Standing on it through 05/08/2002 - Breakfast in Bed. It includes titles, alt-texts, and commentary by Chris for every strip, as has already been mentioned. There are also achewood maps, pictures, and bonus biographical content on the various characters, concerning how Chris first encountered them. They are great reading.
All strips which come before the introduction of the cats (01/10/2002 - The Dirtiest Dudes in Town) are relegated to an appendix. The appendix, however, is incomplete, probably due to a page restriction, and is missing the final sixteen strips which run from 12/18/01 - A Dangerously Good Haircut through 01/09/02 - Van Practice.
It is unfortunate that these strips are omitted. For one, 01/02/02 - I Love My Fat Son marked the beginning of the recurring alt-text. The "Téodor's date with Penny" mini-story arc is concluded in the omitted strips, and Blister is introduced. The omitted strips also contain some of Achewood's biggest "duds" or fan-condemned strips: 12/26/01 The Unfinished Strip and 01/08/02 Kung Foo.
Moving on:
Page 108: 11/12/01 - The Humans Show is missing its alt-text (The first alt-text, to be precise). This is most likely due to the fact that there were NO alt-texts in the appendix comics and there was really no need to put such an insignificant one "Early adopters will recall this as a bonus comic from 11.12.01" in.
In the main section of the book, there are five strips which originally ran in color. Due to the fact that this book is a black-and-white print, they are printed in black-and-white. Those strips are:
Page 34: 02/11/02 - Color Monday!
Page 35: 02/12/02 - Ordering Pizza in English
Page 36: 02/13/02 - Pork Chops
Page 47: 03/05/02 - A Glimpse Inside Ray’s Place
Page 48: 03/06/02 - A Fee!
There are also three (fairly pointless, Chris put them up because he was busy moving, I believe) one-off strips which were omitted from the anthology. They are:
After page 23: 01/25/02 - Hey, You're the Best!
After page 37: 02/15/02 - An Ad (Also a color strip)
After page 38: 02/20/02 - Ebay Shopper: Let's Slam!
My plan is to re-create the style of the pages in InDesign or Photoshop and print an addendum to the book, which I will keep in the back cover, because I'm anal-retentive.
Once again, I intend in NO WAY to imply that I am dissatisfied with this anthology. It is everything I've ever wanted from printed Achewood material, and more. If you are on the fence about buying this anthology, don't be. I just wanted to document the omissions for the sake of completeness. Enjoy!
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01/08/02 Kung Foo.
AIIIEEE!! That's one of my favorites. I was just quoting it yesterday.
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Nice wrap-up! I picked up the new anthology, too, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. My intent was to get it signed in Seattle last Saturday, but my friends didn't understand the appeal of standing in a line to meet an internet person.
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OMG yes you need better friends. My friend, who couldn't be less interested in comics of any kind, waited in line for me to get my arm signed and even took the pictures. She said something like "you are always introducing me to such interesting subcultures." She was very cheerful about every part of it, except when she said "I should hire his PR person for my book" when she saw how long the line was, and I had to tell her that he didn't need a PR person to get that long line.
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OMG yes you need better friends. My friend, who couldn't be less interested in comics of any kind, waited in line for me to get my arm signed and even took the pictures. She said something like "you are always introducing me to such interesting subcultures." She was very cheerful about every part of it, except when she said "I should hire his PR person for my book" when she saw how long the line was, and I had to tell her that he didn't need a PR person to get that long line.
Any chance this is the same friend who started following some of us TOUAMBies on Twitter on your recommendation?
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I didn't know this before, but I just checked and it looks like she followed everyone that I was following at the time that she first signed up. I wouldn't conclude from this that she actually acquired an interest in comics or comics reading people from the waiting in line experience. She doesn't really care about Twitter. She's one of those people who has 500 Facebook friends.
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I have 500 facebook friends. actually, 558.
but, i guess i'm a college student.
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I'm a Mafia Wars player, which inflates my list considerably and skews the stats available to 3rd party app developers.
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I'm a Mafia Wars player, which inflates my list considerably and skews the stats available to 3rd party app developers.
what is with that game?
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what is with that game?
Mafia Wars and Farmtown are in a competition to determine which is the most annoying app to non-players and former players.
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what is with that game?
Yeah. My peeps are playing that @ 4 am before work and again late at night. I've asked what the deal is and they just try to get me to play to see. They need my help defeat a level 32 crime boss or something. They'll give me a wiretap and some coke though...
I've succumbed to Facebook, but I won't do the quizzes and games.
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world of farmcraft is just something i do on facebook to give my brain a rest.
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Mafia Wars and Farmtown are in a competition to determine which is the most annoying app to non-players and former players.
1. penis over annoying game message
2. Move penis to "hide" popup tool
3. Click Hide and pick "Hide Mafia Wars"
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Seems like I keep hiding that kind of stuff but it keeps rising from the dead. Where do I click on "REALLY hide this, FOREVER."
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A post dense with knowledge and facts.
Spencersage,
That shit was complete and thorough. Your post was filled with probably more information than all of my posts here combined. I mean... I just... who the fuck am I kidding? You've done a much better job than me in three targeted posts. You might as well take my post count and cans.
In fact...my account is yours. I just emailed you the login and password info.
Everyone else,
Sorry this didn't work out in the first 1000ish posts. It'll get better real soon.
Just... sorry.
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Seems like I keep hiding that kind of stuff but it keeps rising from the dead. Where do I click on "REALLY hide this, FOREVER."
Hide will keep it from showing up in your news feed but if you want to stop getting invitations then you have to Block the application as well. I wish there was just one "make this go away forever" button.
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It also won't hide it when your friends talk about it in their status updates.
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A post dense with flattery, sorrow, and hopelessness.
It's okay, smick! No need to apologize! I emailed you your login and password info back, so you can have it.
You are obviously an upstanding fellow, as evidenced by your "1000ish" posts.
And, if you think about it, did I truly post in the spirit of Achewood? Achewood has never been about being "dense with knowledge and facts." Rather, isn't the Spirit of Achewood about tumbling Ass-over-Teakettle into the great unknown territory of Words, Pictures, and Interesting Fellows? I would like to think that Mr. Smuckles would agree.
Nay, sir, if there is a truly (Achewoodian? Achewoodish? Achewoody?) character here, 'tis you.