The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => History => Topic started by: Doc on May 02, 2011, 03:34:07 am
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Or so I believe your pres is about to announce, here (http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/president-obama-delivers-statement).
Will this change anything? Does it even matter any more given how out of the spotlight he's been? How will the republican party spin this against Obama?
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Will this change anything? Does it even matter any more given how out of the spotlight he's been? How will the republican party spin this against Obama?
it took a republican house and senate[1] and a mandate from the people supporting republican values to finally bring justice to america's greatest villain, a villain that was allowed to roam free and unhinderedly attack FREEDOM and VALUES and THE AMERICAN WAY under the LAZY EYE of democrats who are trying to use AMERICA'S victory in a petty effort to politicize (RANDOMLY BLARING TOBY KEITH VERSION OF AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL OVER A MONTAGE OF FORD TRUCKS RUNNING OVER A GAY WEDDING) AMERICA'S greatest republican victory.
[1] i don't even know if this is true. the fact that i can conceive a universe where my statement is wrong proves i am not a politician.
fuck, i was already depressed anyways.
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what if it was a body double, rather than the actual dude?
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At the least, the guy was funnelling a lot of money to his cause which will now somewhat dry up, because his family maintains that they aren't into the whole "death to Americans" thing. Of course lately all that money has probably been used to keep him from getting blown up, instead of blowing up other people, so who knows.
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What Ash said. I'm not going to say it isn't a good thing--seriously, fuck that guy, good riddance. But aside from the symbolism, I'm not sure it's a great victory. Buncha crazy mofos still hate us.
And I can't wait to hear how the Republicans say Obama deserves no credit for it.
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Osama Bin Laden buried at sea (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/atsea.asp).
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what if it was a body double, rather than the actual dude?
They have tissue/DNA samples from at least 2 immediate relatives that they're going to test against his, just in case.
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Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with the rejoicing in the streets? I can't help but imagine what we'd be saying if it were the other guys doing it.
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Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with the rejoicing in the streets? I can't help but imagine what we'd be saying if it were the other guys doing it.
I know what you mean. Last night several people went to the pentagon for a more reflective acknowledgment of the death than the people in front of the White House were doing.
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Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with the rejoicing in the streets? I can't help but imagine what we'd be saying if it were the other guys doing it.
I'm with you. It's unseemly. Of course, this came up in our morning meeting today and people were referring to him as a raghead, so my awareness may be heightened a bit.
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A relatively restrained take (http://www.uproxx.com/news/2011/05/the-web-reacts-to-the-death-of-osama-bin-laden-with-gifs-photoshops-videos-etc/#page/1) from Oproxx.
About the celebrating in the streets . . . I guess maybe there's a discussion lurking there somewhere about the difference between this and maybe a WWII, given we've been after him for ten years, and we (the royal we) did declare "war" on terror, which can be read as war on Bin Laden, I suppose.
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So last night WWE had a pay-per-view and the news about Bin Laden broke during the show. After the main even John Cena got a house mike and told the crowd what they'd missed but he apparently wasn't allowed to mention death because of all the kids. So he announced that Bin Ladan had been "captured and permanently compromised"
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Osama Bin Laden buried at sea (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/atsea.asp).
The wacko right wing is already calling bullshit on this. It's kinda got me scratching my head as well.
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The wacko right wing is already calling bullshit on this. It's kinda got me scratching my head as well.
I went to my local font of wacko right-wingitude (Fox News) and they're just saying that the Isalmic Scholars have a problem with it. What have you seen?
Also, how much does this help Obama for a second term (or does it)?
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I went to my local font of wacko right-wingitude (Fox News) and they're just saying that the Isalmic Scholars have a problem with it. What have you seen?
Also, how much does this help Obama for a second term (or does it)?
This just came across my Twitter: JamesUrbaniak #applausegate conspiracist @gatewaypundit says cheering throngs outside White House last night were "leftist" plants: http://bit.ly/irE7HF
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What have you seen?
My only source is one of my right-wing friends on Facebook posted this...
This just in: Osama's body has been buried at sea!
Can we say "Big fat HOAX" boys and girls?
Can we say "Election Ploy"?
Dear Mr. Obama: April Fool's Day was April 1st.
You're a month late!
which was followed by enthusiastic agreement by about a dozen of her dipshit friends.
It's like... Obama burned down the birther straw man and his detractors quickly erected a "deather" straw man to replace it.
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My only source is one of my right-wing friends on Facebook posted this...
which was followed by enthusiastic agreement by about a dozen of her dipshit friends.
It's like... Obama burned down the birther straw man and his detractors quickly erected a "deather" straw man to replace it.
Can we say that's what happened with Hitler too, and is pretty established as what you do if you don't want more lunatic followers making a shrine?
Paul, your friend is an idiot. I'm sorry, but there it is.
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The wacko right wing is already calling bullshit on this. It's kinda got me scratching my head as well.
So is Cindy Sheehan: http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/05/02/osama-bin-trutherism-is-born.aspx
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Paul, your friend is an idiot. I'm sorry, but there it is.
Well yes, this I know, but she's also nice, a real sweetheart, which counts for a lot in my book.
When I see her at artcar events we don't talk politics.
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Wise words:
"I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that."
~Martin Luther King Jr
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Thank you Side Show.
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I'm seeing a Twain quote lately that goes along those lines.
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In my own obtuse way, this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmcd9/5681487483/) is directed at those that are taking great pleasure at Bin Laden's death.
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I'm seeing a Twain quote lately that goes along those lines.
Ditto, though somebody on Twitter was complaining about that being a mis-attribution do I don't know if it was really Twain.
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The source of the quote is the MLK book Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community? (http://www.amazon.com/Where-Do-We-Here-Community/dp/0807005711) the publication is an expanded version of this speach (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXiEN-9UplQ&feature=related).
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Man, even had a couple of people in the practice today who said he should have been hung up like Mussolini. He was a complete bastard but he didn't even do anything to my country, I don't know if people think this kind of talk makes them seem tough or what.
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Apparently the version of that MLK quote going around is not quite right.
http://www.bartleby.com/73/1893.html (http://www.bartleby.com/73/1893.html)
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Quote from MeFi, if you didn't see it:
I took this moment to tell my six year old about Sept. 11. Didn't want to discuss it before.
I tried to sum it up for him by saying "we got the bad guy". He asked "are there still any more members of his gang?" I had to say "yes, a lot".
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At least some version of the earlier quote originated with Clarence Darrow, not Mark Twain (http://news.yahoo.com/s/atlantic/20110503/ts_atlantic/marktwaindidntsaythingaboutobituaries37279_1). My apologies.
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Apparently the version of that MLK quote going around is not quite right.
http://www.bartleby.com/73/1893.html (http://www.bartleby.com/73/1893.html)
My new computer may be the cause, but for me that page opens with a horizontal scroll bar that's about six miles long. Weird.
Megan McArdle on the MLK jr quote, in the Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/out-of-osamas-death-a-fake-quotation-is-born/238220/). Looks like maybe they just stapled that first line on?
Sorry for multi-posting.
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CNN.com just reminded me that
Gangs of bad guys will always be around,
... feh. why do I even subscribe.
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Obama slightly up (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll) in the daily poll.
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Quote from MeFi, if you didn't see it:
I had a very similar discussion with my daughter on that evening while we were waiting for the president to give his speech. Has anyone explained why it took him 90 minutes to get to the microphones? I imagine he was on the phone with Pakistan, but that's entirely speculative.
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Could be good old razzle dazzle showmanship.
I mean, it takes roadies 5 minutes to set up and tear down between bands, why they gotta stretch it to 30?
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couldn't interrupt the apprentice at 11:30
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At some point he chatted with George, and I'm sure that was an interesting convo. Also, thanks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMVdh8vdJfs), George (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/bush-rejects-taliban-offer-to-surrender-bin-laden-631436.html).
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I got the feeling that there was a list of people that either the President or someone senior in the White House probably should tell in private before a public announcement, just so that no feathers were ruffled and...
That there was a burst of last minute "yeah, we probably should call them first too" situations added to said list.
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More on the quote business.
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/05/the-shy-woman-whose-words-accidentally-became-martin-luther-kings/238309/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/05/the-shy-woman-whose-words-accidentally-became-martin-luther-kings/238309/)
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I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy.
Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.
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At some point he chatted with George, and I'm sure that was an interesting convo. Also, thanks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMVdh8vdJfs), George (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/bush-rejects-taliban-offer-to-surrender-bin-laden-631436.html).
Presidential Dine and Dash (http://blogs.star-telegram.com/politex/2011/05/bush-at-dallas-restaurant-when-he-heard-about-bin-laden.html)
Can you believe he stuck Laura with the bill?
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To remain true to form he would have finished his lobster souffle before leaving.
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Or finished reading his book.
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Or finished reading his book.
Yes, that's the analogy I was making.
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At least he didn't choke.
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george w. bush weighs in on 'funny or die' (http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/5lrs)
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There's an article going around from Der Spiegel questioning the "legality" of the raid that offed bin Laden.
TL, DR, and for all I know they may be technically correct. But, you know, fuck them. You know what else was illegal? Flying some fuck*ng planes into some fuck*ng buildings.
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Been sorta keeping up with this amongst some folks who (I believe) are fairly informed, some of who live in the area, and they say the compound itself wouldn't have necessarily stirred folks up, neither would the burning grabage instead of taking it out to the street - but even with that, the Pakistani gov't probably will not say boo in the long run due to the amount of back-and-forth with them about OBL and their laxness about following up. Everyone knew he was almost certainly in Pakistan. If (some of) the Pakistani gov't wasn't culpable, they'd be all over our ass for running a strike in there.
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So, Fox's crawl talks about how OBL was "confused and frightened" . . . seriously, when do we say this spin they put on everything has become a pathology? Painting him as the victim? I saw screencaps that declared "Obama Bin Laden" had been killed, and I have seen a number of screencaps where a disgraced Sen or Rep is suddenly pushed across the aisle unbeknownst to everyone, abruptly changing from an R to a D.
I don't get to see the other news channels as much because up here it's all Rupert, all the time - can anyone tell me if the other channels do stuff like this? Examples?
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But those kinds of thinks you wrote up?
If the typo in a post about convenient typos is somehow significant I can't process how. More beer may help.
News here has been showing some protests in the streets in Pakistan, burning American flags and similar. I get that the idea of a foreign power invading your country and killing someone and your government just sitting quietly is concerning (I mean, what if America decides it doesn't like you tomorrow) but pick your goddamn battles, guys. Dude's a murderer on an obscene scale and it's not even like he was a Pakistani citizen.
My housemate was born in the USA and he was kind of bummed out when he found out Osama didn't go down shooting because it robbed the whole thing of it's moral righteousness, which is the same vibe I'm getting from the Fox News thing. Not that Osama shouldn't have died but that he should have been killed in a way that gives the US unquestionable moral authority. Because if his death was righteous then it was a good thing and you can celebrate it. If it's morally questionable then you can't feel as good about it and it calls into question the US's national identity as the Good Guys.
I think the idea that someone's death can be morally righteous should be got rid of. I don't think a death can be righteous, it can only be necessary because all other options have been exhausted. I'm going to say Bin Laden's death was necessary and I'm glad it happened. But as we already said, you shouldn't be dancing in the street over it.
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I've seen a lot of back-and-forth about this stuff, but I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle - we're a "Woooo-HOOOOOO!" culture, and we're going to do that sort of thing more and more. Not to mention we're moving toward a point where everyone has the attention span of a gnat, so, you know, go get 'em.
I saw a bit where a celebrant on TV said "Mission accomplished - we got Osama and I'm drunk! Go USA!" So there's that.
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and yet people say our culture is getting "too PC."
yeah, I think there is a pretty big distrust of the US in Pakistan, what with the flying army of shadow *****s blowing people up and stuff.
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My housemate was born in the USA and he was kind of bummed out when he found out Osama didn't go down shooting because it robbed the whole thing of it's moral righteousness, which is the same vibe I'm getting from the Fox News thing. Not that Osama shouldn't have died but that he should have been killed in a way that gives the US unquestionable moral authority.
Yeah, I don't get that. It's like they're disappointed to learn that our armed forces made it out of the compound safely. It wasn't messy enough. Couldn't someone have at least taken a shot? Like good intelligence, planning and execution is somehow a failure.
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I don't feel like the navy seals are supposed to do everything they can to give the enemy a chance to surrender, like a cop might be expected to do. It's a weird world we live in that people might think that.
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a fake news show in which 4 post-9/11 kids intelligently discuss the death of OBL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax5xQWl4BME)
its rather refreshing