The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Sports & Leisure => Topic started by: Bobby Isosceles on September 09, 2013, 10:54:03 pm
-
In this thread: all things involving grunting and iron, except pressing shirts while suffering from indigestion.
-
Sorry, all my grunting is iron-deficient.
-
You gots to get yo grunt on.
I have been taking form check videos from time to time to make sure I'm not on a one way ticket to snap city. Anyone knowledgeable here willing to give a little criticism?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QQLQUiVP9Q
-
Needs more hip s'plosion, you're getting into the 'drag it up' portion of the event too low. My goal was to get the bar a hand span above the knee so I could rotate the shins forward from the ankles, changing that angle so I could punch the shoulders back to square and then use the hip/lower torso muscles to a's'plode to completion.
You're doing a nice, controlled movement that takes and develops strength, but on a deadlift I would focus on more punch.
I'll try that tonight. If I die, it's on you.
Thoughts on using snatch grip on warm ups to work the upper back a bit more?
-
I'll assume you're doing power cleans as well. Cos if not, you should. They really help with lock out on the dead lift, if that's one of your sticking points (it's not for me, mine is the first inch off the floor).
-
I'll assume you're doing power cleans as well. Cos if not, you should. They really help with lock out on the dead lift, if that's one of your sticking points (it's not for me, mine is the first inch off the floor).
My powerclean form is absolutely shitty and atrocious. (Is a "shitty clean" an oxymoron?) I do them now and again.
I've been doing bent over rows (Yates, not Pendlay) and I've been trying to do more lat development since I feel that's where I am weakest.
So, lot's of snatch grip deadlifts, snatch grip high pulls, klokov presses, etc.
Related: Dmitry Klokov is a monster.
-
"snatch lift on warm-ups to work the upper back", "bent over bar rows" and "power clean" all made me giggle as an immature person whose exercise goes about as far as "jogging in a pool" and "walking maybe".
-
I hadn't heard of Yates vs. Pendlay rows before. Looking at a couple videos it looks like what I think of as a bent-over row is more like the Pendlay version (although I never thought about extending the spine along the upper back like that). Since my lat development is weak, maybe this tweak is worth looking into.
-
"snatch lift on warm-ups to work the upper back", "bent over bar rows" and "power clean" all made me giggle as an immature person whose exercise goes about as far as "jogging in a pool" and "walking maybe".
As well it should. You've cultivated enough mass to unlock the stretching and balance achievement. Walking around the neighborhood counts for more than bent over back rows at your level.
-
335 5RM pull, 345 2RM pull, 225 ATG. Not bad for an old fart and using a bit of Asherdan's advice.
-
Dammit, your spine didn't pop-out!
Do chins (even if they make you look silly) and Pendly style barbell and dumbbell rows. Do them standing on a bench so that you have to let the bar all the damn way down and draw that heavy fucker all the way back up. If your workout place is worth a dang they will have boxes for you to do this kind of thing.
My routine generally conssists of
ATG HB squats (5RM: 225) superstted with barbell rows (5RM: 145, could probably go higher once the form is good)
Klokov presses (behind-the-neck, snatch grip) (5RM: 110)
Pullups (usually unweighted since I am trying to go for wider grip these days, but when narrow or supinated I might throw a 10 on)
Bench: flat-backed, I think the arch is cheating. 5RM: 215
Deadlift: you've seen.
Accessory work now and again:
farmer's walks
front squats: 155 5RM
snatch grip high pulls
power cleans
-
Good. Because every time you see someone doing an arch-cheat you should punch the mother-fuck out of their junk.
It's a principle.
Tried to use your advice, but it's really hard on absolute max effort pulls. 350x3 was a grinder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9e-IpGGuNc
Is there any advice for keeping upper back from rounding on maxes? Anything below is fine.
-
Pretty sure he was talking about bench. If you arch enough you change the angle to more of a decline press.
-
Pretty sure he was talking about bench. If you arch enough you change the angle to more of a decline press.
Sorry, by "advice" i meant the hip drive, but as noted above, form breaks down at max effort. I did a single @ 355 and that damn near broke my CNS. I was actually depressed for the rest of the day.
-
Yeah, arching on the bench is junk punching time.
If the max effort is pulling you slightly out of form I'm OK with that, it means you're actually pushing yourself to failure which is a huge thing to me. Being able to legitimately push yourself to breaking down is the road to growth in my book.
Upper back is definitely not perfect on max effort, but damn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcnQ888TW1Q
Question: up the weight for heavier singles or increase reps?
As a more advanced question, I don't know whether to move from my linear 5RM program to something intermediate like 5/3/1 or Texas or Madcow yet.I fluctuate between 180 and 185lb depending on how much food and water i'm retaining, and I can low bar squat 275 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoskFs-oJJA) and 1RM deadlift 365, so I'm roughly at 1.5BxW and 2xBW respectively. Is that still novice, or should I move to intermediate?
-
Question: up the weight for heavier singles or increase reps?
I don't like more than 3 reps for heavy DLs. Core muscles fatigue quickly under that kind of loading and you put your spine health at risk (or at least I do). Heavy doubles or triples are the best type of work to progress DL. Are you doing rack pulls? It's the first 4 inches of DL that puts the most miles on. You can go heavier and higher reps if you like by pulling out of a rack instead of from the floor.
As a more advanced question, I don't know whether to move from my linear 5RM program to something intermediate like 5/3/1 or Texas or Madcow yet.
You and I are pretty close in terms of max and bodyweight, but I think you will have a higher ceiling than I do given your build. I really like 5/3/1. I don't see any reason not to start a good periodization program like it. Make sure you're eating enough and doing good recovery work (including sleeping enough).
-
As a rugby player who works out with his team I can say the most efficient method of working out involves running (200 because 80 is a match minutes) and lifting your own weight. The kind of shenangians you're talking about is at best, a waste of energy.
-
I think that he's interested in just lifting as much weight as possible, so the type of workout you're talking about wouldn't help reach those goals.
-
Powerlifters are unfit for running marathons, marathon runners are unfit for competing in a powerlifting event. Crossfitters, one might note, are masters of mediocrity.
-
I don't like more than 3 reps for heavy DLs. Core muscles fatigue quickly under that kind of loading and you put your spine health at risk (or at least I do). Heavy doubles or triples are the best type of work to progress DL. Are you doing rack pulls? It's the first 4 inches of DL that puts the most miles on. You can go heavier and higher reps if you like by pulling out of a rack instead of from the floor.You and I are pretty close in terms of max and bodyweight, but I think you will have a higher ceiling than I do given your build. I really like 5/3/1. I don't see any reason not to start a good periodization program like it. Make sure you're eating enough and doing good recovery work (including sleeping enough).
I'm reaching the stage where I am either having good DL days OR good squat days but never both; I think I will try a deload week and if that doesn't work it's time to do some 5/3/1.
If the first four inches do the most work, wouldn't it make sense to do more deficit pulls then to get the launch off the ground?
(this coming from someone crazy enough to do trapbar deficits)
-
As a rugby player who works out with his team I can say the most efficient method of working out involves running (200 because 80 is a match minutes) and lifting your own weight. The kind of shenangians you're talking about is at best, a waste of energy.
Wasting energy is good and gets the ladies.
From a cardio perspective I try to get one long run/mountain bike in a week at least. For example, today I did a 40 mile bike ride, which to me is about equivalent to an 8 mile run. I figure as long as I can get a half marathon done in ~2H I am okay.
-
As a rugby player who works out with his team I can say the most efficient method of working out involves running (200 because 80 is a match minutes) and lifting your own weight. The kind of shenangians you're talking about is at best, a waste of energy.
That said, it is generally better to weight yourself and lift yourself (e.g., a weighted pullup or dip) than it is to lift or move a weight (e.g., lat pulldown or decline press). The former are called closed kinetic chain movements and require a lot more neurological involvement (keeping core stable, etc.) than open kinetic chain movements.
-
Aw what-ever, running is good too, even on those days* when your guts cramp up and you have to drop a loose-goose-deuce in the gutter like a damn hound and then finish your run.
*today
Let me just make sure I understand you. You were running this morning and were feeling some intestinal distress so you defecated in the gutter and continued with your run. Is that what happened?
-
Yeah, in a nutshell. It's a good thing I run before dawn. I prairie dogg-ed it to a dark stretch of road and took care of the problem and ran another mile and a half.
I been sick and ain't all the way well yet.
I will say this is a problem I'd rather have running in the pre-dawn hours on a trail rather than during a particularly heavy lift in a crowded gym.
-
Gastro-intestinal distress is apparently not altogether uncommon among runners.
Yet another reason why I don't run.
-
Okay, now that I have the facts let me just say Good Lord!
-
I have never shit in a drain while running, but maybe I am not doing it right?
It made me get hemorrhoids probably (I definitely had them...) and having those made me pee blood and I want to throw up really bad at least once a week, but yeah, no shitting in drains.
-
Raise your hand if you've puked during a weight workout (I have, but not in a long time). Many moons ago a pencilneck friend of mine asked me to help him get started in weight training. We had done some sets of lat pulldowns (he wasn't strong enough for chins) and had just finished a set of bench presses, and he abruptly booted into a handy trashcan. To his credit, after recovering for a few minutes he wanted to press on, so we did and he wasn't completely turned off by the experience. I learned that newbies need quite a bit of recovery between sets, and I haven't made anyone throw up since. At this point in my training career I know exactly where the limit is in myself and can work right up to that edge without going over.
-
You haven't done this yet? Gotta learn to work to failure, bro.
Pulled 375 today - didn't shit myself but, in the words of a friend, "you look like Captain Kirk as he's about to hit a man in a lizard costume with a giant foam rubber boulder."
-
Raise your hand if you've puked during a weight workout (I have, but not in a long time). Many moons ago a pencilneck friend of mine asked me to help him get started in weight training. We had done some sets of lat pulldowns (he wasn't strong enough for chins) and had just finished a set of bench presses, and he abruptly booted into a handy trashcan. To his credit, after recovering for a few minutes he wanted to press on, so we did and he wasn't completely turned off by the experience. I learned that newbies need quite a bit of recovery between sets, and I haven't made anyone throw up since. At this point in my training career I know exactly where the limit is in myself and can work right up to that edge without going over.
Since I'm going for strength and not hypertrophy, I take 3-5 minutes between sets and do 3-6 reps per set. I've never reached the point of pukery, but after really heavy deadlifts or farmer's walks, I feel so utterly drained from a CNS burnout perspective that I basically become depressed for a few hours.
-
You gots to get yo grunt on.
I have been taking form check videos from time to time to make sure I'm not on a one way ticket to snap city. Anyone knowledgeable here willing to give a little criticism?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QQLQUiVP9Q
rockin thighs dude
-
rockin thighs dude
fuck man now i gotta go die in a cornfield
-
Why did no one tell me how much better it was with lifting shoes? I AM LOOKING AT YOU ALL ACCUSINGLY.
Set 2 of 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9JWUV5W6LA
Set 3 of 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cedFfOcLLY
-
Because the ROM through my ankles is good enough that it doesn't make a difference? Best lifting shoes for me in squats & DL is no shoes at all.
-
One of my best friends owns a crossfit gym. As a consequence I'm a member. It is a really awesome way to meet babes, but the whole thing feels like a cult.
-
One of my best friends owns a crossfit gym. As a consequence I'm a member. It is a really awesome way to meet babes, but the whole thing feels like a cult.
Also, it can make your muscle cells explode.
https://medium.com/health-fitness-1/97bcce70356d
-
If you're there long enough, you can watch the hawtness emerge from frumpiness. Its quite a sight.
-
If you want to see muscles explode come to rugby practice. Four days a week of running into bigger men than you will build you.
-
Because the ROM through my ankles is good enough that it doesn't make a difference? Best lifting shoes for me in squats & DL is no shoes at all.
Well la-dee-da, mister "I didn't fuck up my ankles as a youth and have no ROM."
-
One of my best friends owns a crossfit gym. As a consequence I'm a member. It is a really awesome way to meet babes, but the whole thing feels like a cult.
I'll just leave this here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnjYyfkcaNI
-
If you want to see muscles explode come to rugby practice. Four days a week of running into bigger men than you will build you.
He's not talking about breaking muscles down to build them back up, though. He's talking about breaking them down to gelatinous goo permanently.
-
Today was not a good day. On a 385 pull single I felt something pop under my ribcage and a feeling of mild discomfort (no real pain). I probably strained an intercostal muscle or dislocated a floating rib. Looks like someone's going to make an orthopedist appointment in the morning.
On the plus side, 375 pull double. Woo.
-
(http://a1.s6img.com/cdn/0022/p/8598327_9701662_b.jpg)
-
OK, lifters, riddle me this: where is proper bar placement for a SLDL? Does it still hug the shins or do you let it go a bit farther out?
-
I keep it right against the leg all the way through the motion. Keeping the lever arm on the lower back as short as possible. From what I read though, this depends on your anthropometry. Short legs/long arms might be better to let it drift out a bit towards the bottom.
-
I keep it right against the leg all the way through the motion. Keeping the lever arm on the lower back as short as possible. From what I read though, this depends on your anthropometry. Short legs/long arms might be better to let it drift out a bit towards the bottom.
Here's what I did, set #5 of my BBB, so 185x10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tRxJB9NSmc
I'm really tired by this point but I think the form was okay considering this was reps #40-50 after my 5/3/1 lifts. Opine!
(I think I had too much upper back rounding on my 1+ lift: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmUI_w8-Tmc)
-
Oh yeah, this morning I took a dozen bags of pine bedding and a dozen 50 lb. bags of 3/8" alfalfa pellets up to the barn for storage. It's pretty much the same as palming a 50 lb. kettle bell in each hand and taking a walk up a hill and then shrugging each one up to chin height so you can drop it in a bucket.
Honestly, the extra work lately has been good for me. The other day I just reached one hand over the side of the truck bed while talking with Spouse and snatched out a bag of Versabond thinset and was waving it around at shoulder level while cussing about counter installers foibles. I am almost back to Bull Strangling levels.
Extra work is always good. Training for strength is great but thanks to the BBB stuff I've really appreciated the power of volume. 5x10 of SLDLs is simply murdering my hamstrings (and two days later, I could barely eke out a few reps on the GHR). I figure that Man, in some sort of noble savage state of nature, will benefit more from volume than from 1RM type activities.
That said, the increased volume has turned my eating habits into something perverse. I try to bulk cleanly due to some autoimmune issues, but it leads to strange things like devouring two cans of tuna and a pound of grapes, and that's about it.
-
Upper back rounding isn't much to worry about. That is some major weight hanging off your spine. Have a look at the monsters DL'ing 700+ and you'll see some upper back rounding. I like the BBB format too. Now that I'm into coaching season it's the template I'm using when I get a chance to lift. I like the appetite side effect. My table mates at lunch recently remarked on the increased volume I'm chowing down. Going back for seconds and so on. I stay away from cheap carbs though, so not as much pasta/bread, plus an enormous kitchen-sink salad for vitamins.
Before I found 5/3/1 I was in a 3 sets of 5-8 mode. I didn't fully appreciate how much of a volume jump 5 sets of 10 was until I actually was doing it for a couple weeks. Really makes you need to step up the recovery work.
-
So let's talk about explosiveness training. Is the order power > strength > hypertrophy > endurance? Or does power come at the end like a finisher?
I want to start including some power cleans and box jumps, and don't know where to fit it. My routine currently is:
sunday: low bar squats and pullups (sometimes farmer's walks)
tuesday: OHP and pullups (this is where i do bench/row if i have to double up in a week)
thursday: deadlifts and hip thrusts, sometimes some high bar squats for funsies
friday: bench, row, farmer's walks
-
Beast mode, activate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcgVtPM8QnQ
-
Nice work, Bobby. Good depth. It might just be your geometry, but your torso was leaned way forward. It's natural to do that as you're trying to get low, but it turns part of the lift into a good morning, and that is rough with that much weight. Gotta stay on the heels and think "chest up & out". Pull the bar down with your arms like you're at the bottom of a lat pulldown to keep the shoulder blades together. If it's geometry (short legs, long torso) then there's not much you can do about it - it'll just be harder to progress. On the other hand, dead lifts should be easier.
Edit: "Modify <> Quote", duh.
-
Nice work, Bobby. Good depth. It might just be your geometry, but your torso was leaned way forward. It's natural to do that as you're trying to get low, but it turns part of the lift into a good morning, and that is rough with that much weight. Gotta stay on the heels and think "chest up & out". Pull the bar down with your arms like you're at the bottom of a lat pulldown to keep the shoulder blades together. If it's geometry (short legs, long torso) then there's not much you can do about it - it'll just be harder to progress. On the other hand, dead lifts should be easier.
Edit: "Modify <> Quote", duh.
Yeah, I'm short and stubby and do well with deadlifts. These are also low bar squats too so more sitting back and less sitting down. The bar is resting on the shelf between my traps and rear delts and not on the traps themselves.
This was also a huge jump for me. I did it because a huge Icelandic monster of a man told me that he thought I could do it. Prior to that my 1RM was 285.
-
This has been a good week for me, apparently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpdVOT4qstQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLd7SE-PPm8
-
Breaking walls, mofo.
It's very weird, I basically stalled my progression for months and focused on volume for a bit. Didn't get one inch bigger or gain an ounce of weight but somehow got better PRs. After these today I came home and ate two lb of liver and a quart of milk.
-
So I changed gyms to a straight up powerlifting/strongman gym (and in the process saving money on the membership).
I have gone from being the strongest man in the gym to the weakest, which is humbling and awesome because it gives me a lot to aspire to.
New gym is interesting: prowlers, fat bars, swiss bars, yoke bars, stone simulators, landmines, glute-ham-raises, etc.
I've been playing with the prowler - it it normal to want to vomit between runs? amidoinitrite?
-
Nothing says conditioning more than prowler work. No skill required (good when you're pushing your exhaustion limits) and you can't really go fast enough to pull a hamstring.
-
Hands down, whoever invented the Prowler deserves a prize for its conditioning work. I am also experimenting to see how it is for hypertrophy work. My girlfriend is very small (80lb, 4'11") with a winged scapula. She can currently squat about her BW, but her elbows flare because she has trouble keeping the bar steady as her shoulders tire. I figure some HEAVY prowler pushes/walks not runs will give her the same stimulus plus some prowler push/pull work will also build up her shoulders enough to take a bar.
-
Hopefully she is also keen on the idea so the whipping can be kept to a minimum. Don't let her know you're building her up to plow the back yard for a vegetable patch.
-
I suppose I could google this, but I'm-a ask y'all instead. What is this Prowler you speak of?
-
(http://www.theautochannel.com/vehicles/new/reviews/1997/gap9743.1-lg.jpg)
-
It's a sled you put weight on and shove around. It's great for people who don't get regular doses of tile, concrete, lumber or drywall in their diet.
It's extremely versatile in that it can be used for some intense cardio (a small amount of weight pushed REALLY FAST), endurance work (a small amount of weight pushed really far), or strength and hypertrophy work (a large amount of weight for a short distance).
It's not something we find easily in gyms so finding one with a prowler is always a sign you're at a place where people get strong.
-
(http://www.dieselcrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Prowler-Push-Jim-Wendler.jpg)
^^Not me, Jim Wendler. ^^
I like to imagine I'm polishing the parking lot surface.
-
That looks horrible but effective.
-
That looks horrible but effective.
In so many ways: https://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/6_powerful_prowler_exercises
I have never, ever, ever devoted as much internal willpower and concentration to avoid vomiting in my life.
-
It's better to barf it up and carry on. Don't waste energy where it doesn't matter.
This 'revelation' of a tool is funny as fuck to a guy who spent 1982 - 1992 going to high school and college back fields and shoving the un-padded single man sled around and cussing the lawn crew when they let it grow too long and made things double fucked. That's where my earlier "slap on the back of the head' comment originated.
Still, that Clemson dude was smart to update the concept, because the shit works.
I think the "revelation" is the multi-height and orientation handles, letting you target different areas by pushing as well as different types of pulls (you can even do bicep curls with the Prowler, if so inclined).
That said, doing heavy deadlifts, then volume deadlifts, then heavy prowler pushes (180-230 lb) then glute-ham raises basically makes me want to die a thousand times over.
-
But you sleep, oh so well
-
Until you roll around and something cramps in the middle of the night and you wake up grunting.
You want to make an honest man out of that thing or just keep chuffing its hog?
If you have any additional exercises for it: Do tell. I'm interested in conditioning and hypertrophy aspects of it equally.
-
ZOG LIFT ROCK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76ccm8JxJzo
-
I used to avoid Romanian/Stiff Leg/deficit deadlifts because they looked hell of risky on the back. I got over that.
They look positively safe and sane relative to some of the strongman moves though. Maybe I'll come around in a few years.
-
I used to avoid Romanian/Stiff Leg/deficit deadlifts because they looked hell of risky on the back. I got over that.
They look positively safe and sane relative to some of the strongman moves though. Maybe I'll come around in a few years.
ZOG LIFT MORE ROCK MORE GOOD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6g3A2oevCQ
Seriously. I've heard a very good theory about SLDLs. Regular DLs use the quads to initiate, and the back takes the weight after the knee with the quad's momentum added in. The danger thus is, on the way back down (or past the knee), if that momentum is lost, the lower back goes SNAP as it cannot hold the weight.
An SLDL on the other hand, doesnt pull anything off the ground the back alone can't handle, so it can never be overwhelmed.
-
With regular dead lifts, I don't go back down with the bar with weights over 275 more or less for that reason. I just drop it. If I'm doing doubles or triples I just get right back on the bar so there's no rest. I don't particularly want to get the stretch reflex involved anyway. The few times I've gotten a back strain were on the way back down with tired core muscles.
I got some spectacular head rushes after last night's lifts: 1x365 (matched previous PR), 1x385, 1x395, 0x405. Literally lost vision for a moment after the 385 lift.
Last year I was having trouble getting more than 335 off the floor. I decided to "risk" doing deficit SLDL because it seemed like the best movement to build strength in that phase of the lift. Over the spring I worked from 135 on the floor to 185 from a 4.5" deficit in the 5x10 volume work of 5/3/1's BBB format. I'm certain that is what got me to break through. So close to 405; I think all the heavy singles on the way from 335 up got my system too fatigued. If I'd had a belt and lifting straps, I'm certain I could have done it though.
-
Bobby, come hang out and we'll do all kinds of strong man things in 105d.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bnt1s-2CIAE97Cj.jpg:large)
BTW: I approve of the ZOG stuff. There's no better way to train for picking up heavy shit and taking it somewhere than picking up heavy shit and taking it somewhere.
However...if taking heavy shit places isn't a necessary part of your life...what's the point? To say you can? To have fun? Because it's frigging there?
I should point out that you can probably get yuppies to pay to do farm work in the heat by calling it Bikram Strongman.
Picking up and carrying heavy shit is something that is always useful. Recently I had to -- by myself -- take a stackable dryer off of a washer unit, put it o the ground gently, do maintenance on the washer, then pick up the dryer by myself and put it right back on top. Recently, I had to move 425lb of bird cage up and down several flights of stairs. Picking up heavy shit is a useful skill even for us city boys.
-
With regular dead lifts, I don't go back down with the bar with weights over 275 more or less for that reason. I just drop it. If I'm doing doubles or triples I just get right back on the bar so there's no rest. I don't particularly want to get the stretch reflex involved anyway. The few times I've gotten a back strain were on the way back down with tired core muscles.
I got some spectacular head rushes after last night's lifts: 1x365 (matched previous PR), 1x385, 1x395, 0x405. Literally lost vision for a moment after the 385 lift.
Last year I was having trouble getting more than 335 off the floor. I decided to "risk" doing deficit SLDL because it seemed like the best movement to build strength in that phase of the lift. Over the spring I worked from 135 on the floor to 185 from a 4.5" deficit in the 5x10 volume work of 5/3/1's BBB format. I'm certain that is what got me to break through. So close to 405; I think all the heavy singles on the way from 335 up got my system too fatigued. If I'd had a belt and lifting straps, I'm certain I could have done it though.
Heavy farmer's carries and stone lifts have helped with my deadlifts in that it helps me keep my lats and glutes more engaged. This hasn't helped with my deadlift PR -- 415 is still my last tested max -- but it's helped with my volume. 365 x 4 last week and aiming for 385 x 3 tomorrow.
-
It doesn't matter how early you get to the gym: if there's one other dude lifting, he WILL be on the machine you want.
-
GROG PUSH THING THEN GROG PULL THING BACK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHHd86GBmtk
These are not fun.
-
A power tool that makes you less manly? That's unpossible!
-
Ash puts the Man back in Manual Labor.
-
Wait what?
Did you Lance Armstrong yourself?
-
I almost blew out a nut doing a lift once, if that's any help.
-
Bad ideas compound themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHbSTsEC0mU
-
Rock in' calves, dude!
-
I'm going to die in a cornfield now
-
It looks that way dude.
-
can you guys answer a question that is probably pretty basic?
So, when I was in high school, they took us to the weight room in the gym and ran us through how to use the machines. The gym teacher went on and on about how free weights were obsolete, machines are much better because you can isolate muscles (maybe? this was over 10 years ago), etc. Now it seems that everyone is back on (or was always on?) free weights. Why is that?
My theory, based on occasionally looking at this thread, is that machines are safer for inexperienced people, but doing "free weights" adds the dimension of form, which is interesting/makes you aware in a different way/makes it more fun?
-
I think you're largely on the money --- some evangelists at work always talk about how freeweights/flippin tires/non-machines help with getting your fast-twitch muscle fibres activated, and require the use of peripheral muscle groups to 'steady' the weight or follow through with the motion, whereas the machines don't. I ain't an expert, but I imagine if you're going after plain ol hypertrophic swole-ness (versus brute strength and practicality) the difference in the long run is negligible.
But another reason is just fashion. These things come and go in phases, and I think the recent move back to old-school dumbbell meathead lifts is at least partially the result of the point we've hit on the neverending nostalgia cycle. Y'know, monocles and tweed and stupid little vests and Bernarr MacFadden.
-
can you guys answer a question that is probably pretty basic?
So, when I was in high school, they took us to the weight room in the gym and ran us through how to use the machines. The gym teacher went on and on about how free weights were obsolete, machines are much better because you can isolate muscles (maybe? this was over 10 years ago), etc. Now it seems that everyone is back on (or was always on?) free weights. Why is that?
My theory, based on occasionally looking at this thread, is that machines are safer for inexperienced people, but doing "free weights" adds the dimension of form, which is interesting/makes you aware in a different way/makes it more fun?
The answer is surprisingly complex and nuanced and I'll try not to geek out too hard over it.
Muscles are machines that produce force. They comprise many fibers, all of which produce force. Your nervous system fires off these fibers, thus causing force to be produced.
But there's a huge difference between a slow force exerted over time (pulling a plow) versus a fast force exerted over time (shotputting something). Therein lies the distinction between strength and power. Most sports value power over strength.
The longer a muscle remains under tension, the more likely it is to grow new fibers. In this sense, machines and isolation are great because you can just hammer away at a muscle until it gets so tired it starts signaling the endocrine system "We're out of juice, boss, please send more proteins so we can start building more fibers." This is the equivalent of the military saying "Attrition rates are terrible, we need more recruits."
Getting the nervous system to fire the fibers more efficiently is a trickier matter. You can throw more recruits at an army, but without a well-oiled command and control mechanism, it's going to be a useless army. (As a real world example: the Iraqi military was the fourth largest in the world and folded like a house of cards when the Americans came in during Desert Storm.) Training the nervous system is a matter of coordinating many muscles at once, usually in a compound movement and very often in an explosive "power" movement. Free weights are superior because you have to engage a boatload of muscles to keep things stable. There are concepts like "muscle irradiation" where tensing a muscle will allow adjacent muscles to contract more easily, etc.
Since sports generally value the ability for efficient force production over size of muscles, free weights have historically been the mainstays of training. Even here, barbells are a compromise. Ideally, kettlebells are the best because the center of gravity changes as you lift it, thus making it something you constantly have to adjust muscle fiber firing to handle; dumbbells are also good because they have fuller ranges of motion and engage each side of the body separately. But it's hard to progress on these things because you'd need many of them in an increasing weight pattern, and it's hard to load things like a squat with dumbbells or kettlebells. Barbells are the compromise, that allow you to progressively overload your muscles and also let you do things like squats and overhead presses beyond what you can clean up to your shoulders.
The big problem with free weights is that bad form is very dangerous. Since most people don't go to the gym to train for a sport, most people just want to look good without needing a coach or risking bad form. Here, machines are a good option as they allow the ability to swole up your muscles without risk of hurting yourself. The fact that your muscles will be swole but your motor patterns won't be coordinated is a moot point since you probably won't be sprinting or tackling or scoring a GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL anytime soon. For the general gym, then, the machine is a great way to offer a "fitness" service without liability. I think the opinionated curmudgeon Mark Rippetoe says it best in the intro to Starting Strength:
Among the first tools developed to practice resistance exercise was the barbell, a long metal shaft with some type of weight on each end. The earliest barbells used globes or spheres for weight, which could be adjusted for balance and load by filling them with sand or shot. David Willoughby's superb book, The Super Athletes (A.S. Barnes and Co., 1970) details the history of weightlifting and the equipment that made it possible.
But in a development unforeseen by Mr. Willoughby, things changed rapidly in the mid-1970s. A gentleman named Arthur Jones invented a type of exercise equipment that revolutionized resistance exercise. Unfortunately, not all revolutions are universally productive. Nautilus utilized the "principle of variable resistance", which claimed to take advantage of the fact that different parts of the range of motion of each limb were stronger than others. A machine was designed for each limb or body part, and a cam was incorporated into the chain attached to the weight stack that varied the resistance against the joint during the movement. The machines were designed to be used in a specific order, one after another without a pause between sets, since different bodyparts were being worked consecutively. And the central idea (from a commercial standpoint) was that if enough machines — each working a separate bodypart - were added together in a circuit, the entire body was being trained. The machines were exceptionally well made and
handsome, and soon most gyms had the obligatory, very expensive, 12-station Nautilus circuit.
Exercise machines were nothing new. Most high schools had a Universal Gladiator multistation unit, and leg extensions and lat pulldowns were familiar to everybody that trained with weights. The difference was the marketing behind the new equipment. Nautilus touted the total body effect of the complete circuit, something that had never before been emphasized. We were treated to a series of before-and-after ads featuring one Casey Viator, an individual who had apparently gained a considerable amount of weight using only Nautilus equipment. Missing from the ads was the information that Mr. Viator was regaining size he previously had acquired through more conventional methods as an experienced bodybuilder. Jones even went so far as to claim that strength could be gained on Nautilus and transferred to complicated movement patterns like the Olympic lifts without having to do the lifts with heavy weights, a thing which flies in the face of exercise theory and practical experience. But the momentum had been established and Nautilus became a huge commercial success. Equipment like it remains the modern standard in commercial exercise facilities all over the world.
The primary reason for this was that Nautilus equipment allowed the health club (at the time known as the "health spa") industry to offer to the general public a thing which had been previously unavailable. Prior to the invention of Nautilus, if a member wanted to train hard, in a more elaborate way than Universal equipment permitted, he had to learn how to use barbells. Someone had to teach him this. Moreover, someone had to teach the heath spa staff how to teach how to teach him this. Such professional education was, and still is, time consuming and not widely available.
But with Nautilus equipment, a minimum-wage employee could be taught very quickly how to use the whole circuit, ostensibly providing a total-body workout with little invested in employee education. Furthermore, the entire circuit could be performed in about 30 minutes, thus decreasing member time on the exercise floor, increasing traffic capacity in the club, and maximizing sales exposure to more traffic. Nautilus equipment quite literally made the existence of the modern health club possible.
The problem, of course, is that machine-based training did not work as it was advertised. It was almost impossible to gain muscular bodyweight doing a circuit. People who were trying to do so would train faithfully for months without gaining any significant muscular weight at all. When they went to barbell training, a miraculous thing would happen: they would immediately gain — within a week — more weight than they had gained in the entire time they had fought with the 12- station circuit.
-
that feel when you break through a PR by 15 lb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3I4yN1VI4M
-
You are a MACHINE!
-
Diabetes is not invited to my pizza party.
-
Closed the gap between your DL and your squat some!
-
Closed the gap between your DL and your squat some!
I wish. Tested:
Squat 2RM 315
Squat 1RM 335
Deadlift 2RM 405
Deadlift 4RM 415
So not closed that much...
-
my max on that fuck*ng prowler is 450 lb there and back. I feel your pain.
-
I guess you all want an update.
Due to an autoimmune condition I now have only a moustache as opposed to a full beard. (This is not a joke.) As a result my strength has gone up massively, due to the strength that only an old-timey moustache can give.
My current 1RMs:
Squat: 340lb
Bench: 280lb and a lot of groaning
Dead: 430lb
OHP: 155lb
My current: 3RMs:
Squat: 315
Bench: 255
Dead: 415
OHP: 145
My current 5RMs:
Squat: 305
Bench: 225
Dead: 385
OHP: 140
-
You are of course going to wax it into a handlebar...
Bummer about the autoimmunity thing - hopefully it stops with the beard?
-
You are of course going to wax it into a handlebar...
Bummer about the autoimmunity thing - hopefully it stops with the beard?
Do I look like Paul? No sir, I am going for the "Bashar Hussein Al-Selleck" look, which would look equally good as dictator of a third world country or driving a ferrari in '80's Hawaii.
It doesn't stop with the beard, but it is what it is.
-
When I Googles Bashar Hussein I got a subtitled Syrian snuff film featuring a corpse sporting a Vandyke. Need eyebleach.
-
Don't you know you should never Google anything that Bobby Isoceles mentions?
-
When I Googles Bashar Hussein I got a subtitled Syrian snuff film featuring a corpse sporting a Vandyke. Need eyebleach.
I am at a a complete loss for words.
-
1RM means a bit of a form breakdown, but at least I got it up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvhhxFWpTC4
-
He's an ... interesting fellow. He always wears a vest when he lifts. He also can squat 545 easily.
-
high bar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeHvZSoHuRQ
-
Nice. What is it with people thinking a spot in squatting is a good idea? If you're going to miss the lift, dump the bar. I suppose the knowledge that someone is ready to pounce on my rear provides some sort of additional motivation to make it. I'd rather they stand to the side and give me cues that would actually help (big chest, knees out, spread the bar, elbows down, etc).
-
My low bar max is 345 but I let the bar roll around a bit and bruised the shelf between my traps and rear delts. I switched to high bar and wasn't sure if I'd make 315, but I wanted the spot so that I wouldn't have to dump the bar and unload it and rerack it and reload it to a manageable weight.
-
Just moving the plates and bars around can get to be quite a workout.
-
I find that nothing helps with lifts more than competitiveness and spite.
http://youtu.be/vkSH_z_Aa2E
-
So you might wonder why I've been posting so many form checks. The reason is because I've been suckered into this "Squat Every Day" routine, where you literally squat every calendar day.
The results are impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB1D4CvG_p0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_mmYT_Wulc
The downside is that I have a trigger point (knot) in my serratus posterior inferior muscle, which is essentially under the back side of my ribcage. The old "roll around on a lacrosse ball" method is not particularly fun when you run a bone over it.
-
Well, my first injury, and it wasn't even from lifting. I popped a calf muscle pushing the prowler.
-
Too much hip drahve means I accidentally assblasted my spotter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPwXAgSyE3c
-
I am beginning to come to the side of the "grip it and rip it" school. http://youtu.be/JUSoBsSaUF8
-
A phrase I've been hearing recently: "Train the squat, practice the deadlift." I'm beginning to understand why.
-
Dear new guy at the gym: Nobody is going to steal your Tommy Hilfiger jacket. You should put it in one of those cubbies over there, or if you're really worried about it, in a locker downstairs. You should definitely NOT put it on the floor behind you at every machine you use.
-
Is using a spotter on squats actually a thing? What possible help is he providing? You're either going to lift the bar up and set it back or you're going to throw it on the ground and Roast Beef shame style take the weights off the bar from the floor. One time I was trying to impress a brother and the bar just rolled off my shoulders and landed squarely on his foot while I attempted to walk away like a girl with a groin injury. Then I yelled at him for being so close to me. Because clearly, he was the reason I couldn't complete the lift.
-
They shouldn't be, but I see it quite a bit. It's like, do you need a spotter for the dead lift too? Bench, clearly so, on account of crushed tracheas or flail chests.
-
Is using a spotter on squats actually a thing?
Yes.
What possible help is he providing?
Since your core usually gives out before your legs, he or she will provide just enough force to keep your torso up past your sticking point.
You're either going to lift the bar up and set it back or you're going to throw it on the ground and Roast Beef shame style take the weights off the bar from the floor.
With a spotter, it always gets up and reracked and that way you don't have to dump the bar (potentially bending it as it hits the rails), and if you don't dump the bar that means you don't have to unload it, rack it, and reload it.
One time I was trying to impress a brother and the bar just rolled off my shoulders and landed squarely on his foot while I attempted to walk away like a girl with a groin injury. Then I yelled at him for being so close to me. Because clearly, he was the reason I couldn't complete the lift.
If you're doing a low bar squat, it's more useful to have a spotter since a tired torso tends to fail forward.
-
In other news, I'm on my second day of Hepburn A and I may in fact have joined a Lovecraftian death cult bent on destroying all life.
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/extreme-powerbuilding-doug-hepburn.html
-
Bodily fluids. That is the solution.
Are you suggesting The Mayor pour hot bloody fat on the man's jacket?
-
It could also be bloody semen. We aren't picky in these here parts.
-
Quite a few gentlemen of my dad's generation would be happy to be doing Hepburn.
-
Yeah, but which one (or which order of preference?)
They are both good looking. Audrey is the prettier of the two, imho, but they are both too skinny for my taste. They are both great actresses too, but I'll have to give the edge to Katherine in that department.
-
Exhibit A on the motivating power of having someone brush their thumbs against your very ticklish armpits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fywe8yi9G_I
-
Oh yeah, this happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24nXDOezhs4
-
Kickass, Bobby!
I love concrete. I'm working on prototypes for new countertops at the moment. I got a set of diamond embedded sanding sponges and I'll be damned if concrete doesn't sand up nice and smooth and shiny with some 800 grit and a little elbow grease.
-
Man, fuck your truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IO6SY1mevA
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJWemPyCHB8