The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Science & Nature => Topic started by: ianmalcolm2 on December 01, 2013, 01:41:03 am
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I've been noticing a huge influx of healthfood-mom type beliefs in my social media circles of late, and while I guess it's good that fellas are choosing to eat vegetables and drink goji berry tea or whatever, I am kind of worried by the growing conflation of benign healthy-living dictums with conspiratorial distrust of running water, vaccination, tylenol, &c.
From an ethical standpoint, this kind of thing is confusingly dicey. If these gaia-loons are able to go about their unvaccinated business as is, they're contributing to the weakening of everybody's immunity to diseases that really should have died out by now. Like really——measles is some Dickens shit.
But naturally I would have a hard time telling an in-person dude wearing two tie-dye shirts and tinfoil beanie that his decisions are wrong and harmful. He'll fight back in statements that I can't even interpret enough to even saw "hell naw dog" to.
So. What dealings, if any, have you people had with adherents of this healthfood-conspiracy overlap? If you've ever found yourself in purposive dialogue with a hemp-necklace individual, for instance: how'd that work out for you?
Stories of the moon-bat world's collision with the rest of society are always funny, right?
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It's best to just bite your tongue and not engage.
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I think probably no one ever changed anyone's mind on a subject like this via a Facebook argument. Or at least such a small percentage that the odds are stacked so hugely against you that it's not worth spending your limited time on earth trying.
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... it's not worth spending your limited time on earth trying.
Seconded.
I have a particularly bizarre such case in my circle. A woman who got a bachelors in biology and a masters in synthetic chemistry quit the company to have a baby, then opened an Organic nostrums store ( which failed after 3 yrs of business). Her feed is full of astrological nonsense and Big Pharma / megacorp conspiracy theories. I only pipe up when one of her cronies starts praising Jenny McCarthy or giving dangerous anti-vax advice. I'm particularly well informed on that, but shooting down the same bad ideas over and over gets tiresome. I read somewhere that one of the differences between science and pseudo-science is that science learns and progresses. Pseudo-science finds validation in the antiquity of its ideas. This makes arguing against them a Sisyphean task.
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Thanks all.
While I'm normally not one to be a big ol' internet pedant (on facebook no less), the stuff I'm seeing is pretty much the embodiment of the awful Jenny McCarthy-style "natural=goood" anti-vaccination sentiment. And the positive feedback this stuff is getting, it still nags at my conscience because it's these kinds of ideas, spread virally over the internet, that KILL PEOPLE!
Here's the article I'm seeing passed around the most (http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2013-02-26/how-i-gave-my-son-autism/). It's baffling that people will read this new age schlock, act upon it with only the best intentions, and in doing so, probably wind up killing actual people.
Reading it, and the comments section below, I just get this crushing sense of futility. Facts and science mean nothing to these people, making them impossible to ever really convince. I want to engage them, but throwing PubMed studies at somebody who believes that the pineal gland is a magic forehead eyeball just makes both parties feel worse. The whole thing seems like it hinges upon this disgusting propagandistic appeal to motherly nurturing.
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This (http://youtu.be/KtYkyB35zkk) is my go to comment to these people.
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I've found, and it probably took far too long, that unless someone directly asks you for your opinion, they don't really want to hear it. I used to assume that if someone states their opinion about something then they want to engage in a conversation on the subject. Nope. I've realized that most people just want me to agree with them.
It's strange to me, because when I state an opinion it's basically an invitation to discussion. And I have some friends and family who are the same way. But most of the time I find that unless I'm OK with potentially damaging a personal relationship, it's best to keep my mouth shut. I'm not always good at this but I try.
And like wombat said, it's most likely not going to make a difference anyway.
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This is a good book for people who think that the facts matter, to help understand people that aren't like us.
http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Be-Such-Scientist-Substance/dp/1597265632/ref=tmm_pap_title_0 (http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Be-Such-Scientist-Substance/dp/1597265632/ref=tmm_pap_title_0)
I'm not sure I've been able to put any of it into practice, but it made a lot of sense.
(I think the reviews that say it's too autobiographical interestingly miss the point that he's writing the book in a way that exemplifies what he's arguing for.)
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On the other hand, our thanksgiving argument was my brother demanding that we ADMIT that the science shows men are better at math. Did not understand why this made my sister and mother enraged, and my dad and I shake our heads and leave the room.
In the crowds I run in I am more often on the side of "anti-science" because I am more often hearing bullshit "science" facts. Statistics out of context are not science, that takedown of global warming you read is not science, proposing fancy technologies to solve every problem is not "more scientific."
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tylenol, &c.
FWIW, this one is very true. A little too much Tylenol, especially when combined with alcohol, WILL destroy your liver.
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FWIW, this one is very true. A little too much Tylenol, especially when combined with alcohol, WILL destroy your liver.
We warned about this by mom-types all through playing sports. That didn't stop any of us from washing down handfuls of tylenol and Ultram/Tramadol with beer after any injuring game. I understand that it is very easy to overdose on tylenol, but the maximum daily dose is 3-4,000mg. You'd have to take 10 extra strength tylenols to hit that threshold.
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FWIW, this one is very true. A little too much Tylenol, especially when combined with alcohol, WILL destroy your liver.
Oh yeah, acetaminophen is hell on the liver if overused, but that's practically written on the packaging. However, there's no data anywhere to support that it could cause autism or whatever chi-imbalance shit that moonbat moms claim.
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I think the concept of "herd immunity" is important to try to get them to understand. I read an article recently (and unfortunately I can't find it now) by someone who came down with whooping cough, and blames it on anti-vaxxers.
But yeah, it's tough. These people WANT to believe that they're fighting the good fight, and even when presented with evidence to the contrary it's well nigh impossible to get them to understand it.
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Oh yeah, acetaminophen is hell on the liver if overused, but that's practically written on the packaging. However, there's no data anywhere to support that it could cause autism
They really say this?
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oh my god I just read something along these lines that made me so mad that I can't even think. I can't even function and have a normal day while this idiocy is percolating around my brain.
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They really say this?
Acetaminophen is an ARTIFICIAL drug created by SCIENTISTS of course it causes autism
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I think the concept of "herd immunity" is important to try to get them to understand.
When your whole worldview is about how exceptional and unique your children are, the concept of being part of a herd are anathema. The thing is, viruses are pretty much automata, and they operate at a population level, not an individual level (although the effects on any given individual are certainly important to the victim). Viruses don't care how balanced your chi is, or whether you're on a gluten free diet, or how much raw milk you've consumed. Exposure and the presence of their target protein on your cells is all they need to do their work, which is just to make as many more virus particles as they can.
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To veer off to the side a little bit into 'my child's social dysfunctions are actually signs of latent genius' territory:
Any of you dudes been exposed to this "indigo children" stuff? I guess some moonbats are arguing that what we would call ADHD or autism or whatever actually represents the next stage in human evolution——it's just that the 'big pharma' illuminati cabal are trying to suppress it.
It's like if the big reveal of "childhood's end" was way less cool.
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I've heard the phrase, but I think it's a ridiculous assertion that variation in human behavior is a recent development or indicative of the future path of the species. I think it may be true that the society we have developed fits people to different degrees, and we have seen the opportunities for those who might have been good scouts, spiritualists, or manual laborers be replaced by occupations that require long apprenticeships for intellectual specialization (including what we do daily with computers). I don't know what the future of human evolution will look like, but the pressures that normally drive adaptation would seem to be largely blunted by the civilization we have achieved. I doubt any observable change happens in time scales we can comprehend. Archaeology has found plenty of ancient human remains that are indistinguishable from our contemporaries, even in features that appear to be "on the way out" (little toes or wisdom teeth) or could substantially increase fitness with changes (lower backs).
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I can't stop being mad about this.
Of course they believe [that trauma can affect gene expression] now-- their "science" trusts rats more than it trusts women of color.
oh my fuck*ng god.
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Calm down Dan, it's gonna be alright.
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I WANT TO BE ON YOUR SIDE, INTERNET LEFT WING LADIES, BUT YOU'RE MAKING IT SO HARD.
It's tough because sometimes they say things that seem really goofy initially, but over time I realize that they're right. I always appreciate that and am glad I didn't argue about it. This is not one of those times.
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It's tough because sometimes they say things that seem really goofy initially, but over time I realize that they're right.
Such as?
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One lady in particular posts angry things about racism in America that sometimes rub me the wrong way, but I usually end up thinking for a long time and realizing she is right. Having a hard time coming up with an example. But too many of the other ones are more of a "even a broken clock is right twice a day" type deal. If you whine enough and claim enough things are patriarchal plots, eventually you will write one really true article and trick me into following you on twitter.
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^ re: theinevitable—— I spend far too much time reading the rantings of crazy people for shits and giggles, but the most frustrating part of laughing at this stuff is how close they get to real insight while remaining so, so far away.
One example I can come up with is a website that considers itself a 'media watchdog'. It's tragic, because while they do a wonderful job of cataloguing all the ways in which mass-media socializes us into consumerist passivity, they attribute it all to a shadowy cabal of illuminati lizard-men whose lineage stretches back to pyramid times.
Like, replace lizard-men with the "faceless capitalist momentum and Freudian death drive," and they'd have something legitimate to say! I think the best thing for conspiracy theorists of all stripes would be to make them read Hannah Arendt's 'The Banality of Evil'.
But now we're just off-topic
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But now we're just off-topic
Welcome to TOUAMB, wandering off topic since the early 21st century.
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Welcome to TOUAMB, wandering off topic since the early 21st century.
Over a decade of tangential connections served!
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One example I can come up with is a website that considers itself a 'media watchdog'. It's tragic, because while they do a wonderful job of cataloguing all the ways in which mass-media socializes us into consumerist passivity, they attribute it all to a shadowy cabal of illuminati lizard-men whose lineage stretches back to pyramid times.
As a sometime member of the mass media, I LOL so hard at the idea of media conspiracies. Trust me, the media could never be organized enough to pull off a conspiracy. Anything that looks like coordinated movement is simply a result of them all being sheep - or lemmings, in the metaphorical sense of lemmings that isn't true of the behavior of actual lemmings.
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Exactly! Any pernicious movement in media is the result of competition for viewers' attention. And the things advertisers and marketers will do for attention are bad enough without making lizard-men the culprits.
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maybe the reason you aren't getting as many writing jobs as you want is that they just want an army of people out there saying "hey, I get articles published sometimes, but I don't know ANYTHING about any lizard-men." Plausible deniability.
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you cant be species-ist/racist towards lizard-people because theyre the ones with all the power.
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On a semi-related note, I hope good ol Dave Icke goes on a university speaking tour again soon. That'd be like seeing Kennedy in person, in terms of pure 'vibes'.but with more anti-semitism and turquoise.