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Achewood => Achewood => Topic started by: jough on February 26, 2004, 05:21:36 am

Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: jough on February 26, 2004, 05:21:36 am
Meh.

I'm always glad to see the *****s, but did this one have a punch line?  Something funny?
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: V-Adore on February 26, 2004, 05:55:20 am
I dunno, I sorta like it. There isn't really a punchline, but I sorta like the *****s just hanging around and talking.

Also: Andy. Throwing a bone to the fans, are we, 'stad?
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: sjlimmer on February 26, 2004, 06:53:02 am
We knew Vlad was a love machine (sorry)*, but it's nice to see his softer side*.  As it were.  I must say, I wouldn't have pictured him being so upset about this...






*Ok, now I know why I don't usually post this close to my bedtime....
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: Ben-San on February 26, 2004, 07:25:31 am
I like that Andy has a keyboard despite his lack of arms.
Title: Re: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: sailor on February 26, 2004, 08:06:18 am
Quote from: "jough"
Meh.

I'm always glad to see the *****s, but did this one have a punch line?  Something funny?


I hate Andy is so content with his corny Red Fender Stratocaster and alphabetical cd shelf!

that shit is gold.
as is Andy.

Tomorrow: Chucklebot(?)
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: starlight on February 26, 2004, 11:49:27 am
I relate entirely too much with this one.

I find this one quite good in that respect.
of course, I wouldn't really picture vlad acting that way.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: CortJstr on February 26, 2004, 02:03:29 pm
How can a CD/DVD shelf not be alphabetical and chronological? That would be chaos and a crime against nature.

It took me a moment to decide if "la bamba" was the brand he was working on or a adjective. I'm thinking it means wicked.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: misterhaan on February 26, 2004, 03:19:55 pm
Quote from: "CortJstr"
How can a CD/DVD shelf not be alphabetical and chronological? That would be chaos and a crime against nature.


my cd shelves are sorted by genre, then artist, then release date.  nature police, take me away . . .
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: CortJstr on February 26, 2004, 03:42:58 pm
Quote from: "misterhaan"
Quote from: "CortJstr"
How can a CD/DVD shelf not be alphabetical and chronological? That would be chaos and a crime against nature.


my cd shelves are sorted by genre, then artist, then release date.  nature police, take me away . . .


Wow, you one upped me. I can never make genre distinctions on genre to be that specific.

OT: Why aren't Andy and Beef better friends? Maybe they're too alike and get on each others nerves.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: misterhaan on February 26, 2004, 04:08:08 pm
my genre categories are pretty general, it's really genre groupings, selected such that each of the 8 groupings have similar numbers of cds in them.  it's usually pretty easy to tell house (genre grouping 3) from ska (genre grouping 6), for example.

also, i used to hang my t-shirts in my closet sorted by color (though not rainbow!), but i stopped when my friends found out and started making fun of me.  most people can't tell what sort of order my cds are in though, so i can keep doing that!

i can be so anal sometimes . . .
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: jough on February 26, 2004, 04:39:32 pm
My DVD shelf is organised by UPC code.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: CortJstr on February 26, 2004, 04:40:52 pm
See I hang my shirts up on the far left. Then I put on ones from the middle or right. That way shirts I haven't worn since laundry day get pushed right by the fresher ones; otherwise I could easily end up wearing the same shirt twice in one week (assuming I do laundry on a Wednesday).

It also lets me dynamically switch between long and short sleeve prominence in spring and fall.

Also, I split up my DVDs between movies/OAV*s and TV series.

*For the non-otaku that means Original Animated Video. So it's a straight to video release but without the negative conotations.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: AugustWest on February 26, 2004, 04:57:38 pm
I am the least organized person in the world.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: AlohaDawg on February 26, 2004, 05:08:47 pm
Were they laughing at you because you sorted your T-shirts or because you put them on hangers? Because I would for both. I don't even want to know about your days of the week underroos.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: Limmo on February 26, 2004, 05:23:44 pm
I play a red Strat and I'm currently alphabetizing my CD collection.  Could this mean that I need to pay more attention to my ***** friends?

Onstad needs to find another alt text writer...
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: Mantonio on February 26, 2004, 05:49:59 pm
Oh man, it's been too long since we've seen these guys.  I'd almost forgotten about Andy.  Maybe this mean's there'll be more Achewoodian ***** action - like maybe Lie Bot meeting Little Nephew.  Me thinks LN would be a little less gullible about Lie Bot's lies than young Philippe.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: slink on February 26, 2004, 05:59:09 pm
I liekd seeing the *****s. And I thought it worked that Vlad was upset about this. You know if it were a woman he'd be all cool and suave, but it was Andy so he could get worked up. It's true of all the guys I know who were suave with the chicks.

And i sort my DVDs by appeal, and cd's similairly though by band and genre to an extent. It's kind of complex.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: AugustWest on February 26, 2004, 06:00:39 pm
I sort my DVD and CD's by where they land when I drop them.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: slink on February 26, 2004, 06:43:14 pm
Quote from: "AugustWest"
I sort my DVD and CD's by where they land when I drop them.


I do that during the week. And most weekends. But then I get sick of the untidyness and organise them properly again. Usually into around the same place.
Although recently my DVD's outgrew the shelves originally allocated for them, so I currently have perfectly organised rows, and a pile atop one row - since the shelf is just under two dvd boxes high.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: misterhaan on February 26, 2004, 07:33:34 pm
Quote from: "AlohaDawg"
Were they laughing at you because you sorted your T-shirts or because you put them on hangers? Because I would for both.

yes, for both.  i only had the shirts on hangers because i was in the dorm and had no shelf to put them on (i hate putting clothes other than underthings in drawers).  i now have such a shelf, and my shirts are in two piles--one of thicker shirts that are good for the weather i'm experiencing now, and one of thinner shirts that are good for summer.  my avatar features a shirt from the 'thicker' pile, as it was cresting into fall at which time i can wear shirts from either pile.  yes, i realize this is still anal, but i liken it more to CortJstr's hanging newly-washed shirts on the left than to my previous color-sorting habits.

Quote
I don't even want to know about your days of the week underroos.

all i shall say about my underthings is that i own no underroos (and that i keep my underthings in a drawer, since i already said that . . .)
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: jough on February 26, 2004, 08:15:22 pm
I'm actually pretty obsessive about my DVDs. I sort them oddly - by studio, and then alphabetically.  That way they look pretty on the shelf (since the same company's discs are generally uniform).  I do store my Criterion Collection discs by spine number - but that's a Criterion thing.

And there are a few directors that I store their discs together - Hitchcock, Kevin Smith, etc.

I've run out of shelf space lately, though - so I have a bunch of discs in storage. I miss them.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: misterhaan on February 26, 2004, 08:40:38 pm
my cd shelves came from target for $20 and are really close to what i was intending to build myself!
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: Mite on February 26, 2004, 08:53:32 pm
My cds are compulsively stored alphabetically. I even sorted them using a scale factor (computed for each letter of the alphabet) so I could leave empty spots in my big cd case in strategic positions, thus minimizing mass shifting when I bought new cds.

What mathematicians due when having anxiety attacks...it's terrifying.

Oh yeah, the comic. Eh. Though I did really like liebot's Dr. Phil-esque "What I'm hearing is..." construction. And I used to own a red Strat. 'Course, I was 13, so I think I had an excuse. Now it's a cherry-stained Gibson SG. A thing of beauty.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: misterhaan on February 26, 2004, 09:29:40 pm
Quote from: "Mite"
leave empty spots in my big cd case in strategic positions, thus minimizing mass shifting when I bought new cds


with mine on shelves, all i have to do is slide them down and bump a couple off the end and move them to the next shelf.  i've got my movies in a 308-cd case though (with the overflow in a 200-cd case), and i have done absolutely nothing to minimize mass shifting--i just tend to wait until i have 4 or so to add, so i get to shift further . . . or i wait because i'm lazy.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: slink on February 26, 2004, 09:30:13 pm
My first electric was a cherry strat. Still owned actually, since I have as many as possible to avoid retuning guitars to what I need for certain things all the time.

And from the disk storage methods, I can only note that we are all evern sadder than I ever expected.
Makes me feel more comfortable.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: Noah on February 26, 2004, 09:40:44 pm
I organize my MP3s by Name, Date Modified, and Size.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: andalucia on February 26, 2004, 09:56:04 pm
Indeed, this is one boon to the mp3-listener: obcessive-compulsiveness not required.  However, I still manage to find new outlets for it, like making sure the album information is present and correct, and that there are no real egregious problems, like something being classified as by a band when it's actually part of the singer's solo career.... Oddly, I'm nowhere near this careful with my corporeal music collection.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: slink on February 26, 2004, 10:05:57 pm
Gah. Getting into my mp3s is bad.
For mixing purposes, I have to have them all under artist then album folders. Also shortcut cross reference on those that are jointly worked - remixes, duos etc.
Also, having had to, when I got my car's mp3 player, go through the entire collection and convert the naming scheme from artist - track number - track to track number - track under artist folder, thus meaning having correct id3 tags.
It's a nightmare, and since losing a hard drive, and gradually recovering my collection, means doing so all over again.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: Noah on February 26, 2004, 10:09:01 pm
I have a procedure. I rename them as: Artist - Album/Source - Track Number(if there is one) - Song Title. Then I just erase all the ID3 tags, they aren't useful for anything I do.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: V-Adore on February 26, 2004, 10:53:12 pm
I have so little organization in here that it's almost a little funny. Of course, now that I have the whole room and not just my half, I probably ought to fix that -- like getting all my clothes into dressers, now that I have two...

Anyway, on the strip, I think the detail I like best is that Liebot appears to be giving Vlad honest, reasonable advice. Does he have a Reverse First Law that prevents him from lying to *****s, or what?
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: doomglobe on February 27, 2004, 01:46:07 am
Quote from: "Obsessive Compulsive Achewood Peoples"

We all sort stuff, we are so cool. Look at how organized we all are!

in order to sort the round shiny's, you have to get them in the right squares. mine are all in the wrong squares.


GO *****S! VLAD IS BACK WITH A VENGEANCE!
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: CortJstr on February 27, 2004, 02:17:56 am
My MP3's are by First Letter, then if artist tracks >3 the artist has a folder. Sometimes I do albums but it depends on how much I actually care about that band. So I don't bother with Green Day while TMBG has all the albums and EMusic stuff.

I've heard a lot of good things about the MP3 Tagger (http://www.magnusbrading.com/mp3ts/).

I used to do lots of CD shifting when I was in college and had Case Logic cases (btw, anybody want to buy a 128/256 case or a 100/200?) but now I got a nice LDE (http://www.racksandstands.com/asp/show_detail.asp?sku=LE1006&catid=209) shelf. I got sick of buying $20 racks from Wal-Mart and finally decide to get a nice one. They're so sweet. Since the shelves are all on pegs you can mix and match DVDs, CDs, books, and display items.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: palm trees on February 27, 2004, 02:36:03 am
ok yeah mp3s are cool guys, i don't know why you don't just use itunes, dammit people have to make things so comlplicated

my main point is why is there no strip for today? it makes me sad.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: slink on February 27, 2004, 02:40:57 am
Quote from: "palm trees"
i don't know why you don't just use itunes


Because it costs shitloads, and isn't that useful to me. If I travel I have my cars player, and if I'm at home I'm either using winamp or my mixing prog that only plays mp3s (which writes out AAC encoding).
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: jough on February 27, 2004, 02:51:10 am
Quote from: "Noah"
I have a procedure. I rename them as: Artist - Album/Source - Track Number(if there is one) - Song Title. Then I just erase all the ID3 tags, they aren't useful for anything I do.


That's exactly what I do, except I use MusicMatch to re-write the ID3 based on the file name info.

Some mobile MP3 players will only display the ID3 tags, so it's hard to search the tracks when there aren't any.

I have a very large MP3 collection but a smallish hard drive (40Gb).  I've been thinking of getting an external Firewire drive in the 250-300Gb range so that I could keep all of my songs on it (although I'd fill it about half-way right away).
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: CortJstr on February 27, 2004, 03:52:56 am
I would absolutely love to switch to ogg vorbis since it blows any other format completely out of the water but my boom box at work doesn't recognize it and many portable players don't either. So in the meantime I'll stick to good old LAME and Winamp 2.x for my mp3 needs.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: jough on February 27, 2004, 04:10:12 am
Ogg Vorbis is starting to catch on more.  My portable player plays them, although I've never heard one.

I'm a minidisc user (for live stuff) and really like ATRAC, but it hasn't caught on much.

Are there decent utilities for ripping discs to Ogg Vorbis?  I see no reason to convert my huge MP3 collection, but maybe for new stuff...

It's just that MP3 is so ubiquitous.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: palm trees on February 27, 2004, 04:35:09 am
Quote from: "slink"
Quote from: "palm trees"
i don't know why you don't just use itunes


Because it costs shitloads, and isn't that useful to me. If I travel I have my cars player, and if I'm at home I'm either using winamp or my mixing prog that only plays mp3s (which writes out AAC encoding).


ok, fair enough with the aac, but iTunes is completely free......................
(i mean the listening software, not all that download crap, we don't get that over here. and that was kind of my point, what player is easiest to use)



ok to get this damn thing back on topic:

I AM TOTALLY MISSING SOME JOKE ABOUT WHY ***** = "*****", SO COULD SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITHOUT MAKING SOME SORT OF JOKE ABOUT ME NOT KNOWING

thank you all very much
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: jough on February 27, 2004, 04:57:29 am
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Pfft.  N00b.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: AlohaDawg on February 27, 2004, 05:30:42 am
Is he talking about *****s' #####? What kind of sicko is he? Or *****s who don't wear #####? Or a ***** who #####? *****s that make #####? Pleated ##### for shiny *****s?

What is going on here?
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: sailor on February 27, 2004, 07:46:00 am
computers can lick my rad chilies.
mofo'n casettes!

it's all download, choadsmoke, frog n' toad bongload.

RED FENDER STRATOCASTER
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: JorgeFabregas on February 27, 2004, 08:15:14 am
This is a PM kind of week, right? Well, it's now AM and still no strip. Of course I wasn't expecting one.

I think that ******s/#####s (instead of *****s) may be because calls for their return were too  frequent and the term may have been banned. This is purely conjecture.

Somewhere I lost my way. Now I sit here, awake, avoiding studying for a low-level math exam, which I will not understand very well, but probably get an A on after an eventful night of drinking, procrastanating, and eventually, studying. Is there some AA-type group I can join for being pathetic? I was double-fisting a beer and a mug of tension tamer tea just so I could phone a girl this evening.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: CortJstr on February 27, 2004, 02:02:14 pm
Quote from: "jough"
Are there decent utilities for ripping discs to Ogg Vorbis?  I see no reason to convert my huge MP3 collection, but maybe for new stuff...


Audiograbber (http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.audiograbber.com-us.net/&e=7418) has been the standard geek ripper for years and with version 1.83 became freeware. I'm pretty sure it ships with an ogg encoder. If not the AG site can provide one since ogg is open source.

And AG is a non-intrusive program so if you don't like it just delete C:\audiograbber and that wipes out everything.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: AugustWest on February 27, 2004, 02:09:39 pm
Quote from: "JorgeFabregas"
Is there some AA-type group I can join for being pathetic?


I think you're already here.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: slink on February 27, 2004, 02:14:13 pm
Quote from: "CortJstr"
and with version 1.83 became freeware.


Doh. I'm still using 1.8 with the Lame codec.
I might actually upgrade if I don't have to hack it now!
Wow.

*ahem*
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: misterhaan on February 27, 2004, 02:39:01 pm
i've been using audiocatalyst for years now, not sure what version it is though.  back when i used audiograbber it took like a day to encode a cd to mp3, but then i got audiocatalyst which is just audiograbber together with xing mp3 codec and ever since it's taken me about 20 minutes to rip a full cd to mp3 :)

i won't discuss how my mp3 collection is organized, however.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: slink on February 27, 2004, 02:47:04 pm
Quote from: "misterhaan"
but then i got audiocatalyst which is just audiograbber together with xing mp3 codec and ever since it's taken me about 20 minutes to rip a full cd to mp3 :)


Yea. The Xing codec sucks though.
And anyway, 20 minutes!? That's based on your specs mainly then.
I can grab an entire CD to 192 full stereo, high quality lame encoding in well, about 10 seconds per track.
It literally takes me no more than about 3 minutes from inserting the CD to spitting it back out.
Maybe a second or two longer if I use FreeDB to get the titles.

(disclosure: I am running about as good a machine as can be without switching to 64bit however, so I guess...)
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: V-Adore on February 27, 2004, 03:13:34 pm
Quote from: "JorgeFabregas"

Somewhere I lost my way. Now I sit here, awake, avoiding studying for a low-level math exam, which I will not understand very well, but probably get an A on after an eventful night of drinking, procrastanating, and eventually, studying. Is there some AA-type group I can join for being pathetic? I was double-fisting a beer and a mug of tension tamer tea just so I could phone a girl this evening.

I get you. Entirely.

I think an AA-type group for being pathetic is up there with a home for scared people on my list of really good ideas. Given how things are going right now (sad, sad, sadder), I'd join in a heartbeat.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: CortJstr on February 27, 2004, 03:29:38 pm
Quote from: "misterhaan"
i've been using audiocatalyst for years now, not sure what version it is though.  back when i used audiograbber it took like a day to encode a cd to mp3, but then i got audiocatalyst which is just audiograbber together with xing mp3 codec and ever since it's taken me about 20 minutes to rip a full cd to mp3 :)

i won't discuss how my mp3 collection is organized, however.


Audiocatalyst was written by Jackie Franck (sp?) who then left the company to create AG, which is why the GUIs are so similar (and why AG just now became freeware). AC has not been developed or refine in any way since about '98 while AG now has things like CD-TEXT support and alternative TOC readers to rip copy-protected discs.

And yes, Xing is faster than LAME or ogg but that's because it's quick and sloppy. Even on my 4-year-old machine LAME can still create a standard mp3* a minute or so. Xing might work in 30-seconds but I'm not willing to take the huge hit in quality.


*that is -alt preset standard, or VBR quality 2. Which is generally around 192 on average.

(potential split?)
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: Nabubrush on February 27, 2004, 03:30:21 pm
I don't know shit about that other stuff, but of course my CDs and DVDs are stored in cardboard boxes right now. But when they're out, they have to be alphabetized or I go stupid.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: jough on February 27, 2004, 06:11:37 pm
And what the hell do you use to play Ogg Vorbis files on your PC?  I really love me my Winamp, but it's a no-go.

I use CD 'N' Go for ripping - you can use any number of encoders, it has a dizzying array of features to control every tiny aspect of your rip, and it's free.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: CortJstr on February 27, 2004, 06:41:10 pm
Quote from: "jough"
And what the hell do you use to play Ogg Vorbis files on your PC?  I really love me my Winamp, but it's a no-go.

I use CD 'N' Go for ripping - you can use any number of encoders, it has a dizzying array of features to control every tiny aspect of your rip, and it's free.


I was pretty sure that Winamp had a built-in ogg decoder so I check vorbis.com and it confirms that. How recent a build of Winamp do you have?
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: jough on February 27, 2004, 08:32:10 pm
Perhaps there is a problem with the Ogg V. files that I've produced.

I shall endevour to download one from another source and try it again.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: CortJstr on February 27, 2004, 09:55:02 pm
Quote from: "jough"
Perhaps there is a problem with the Ogg V. files that I've produced.

I shall endevour to download one from another source and try it again.


I can't promise these songs are any good but the files should at least be valid: http://www.vorbis.com/music.psp
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: ferocious j on February 28, 2004, 12:17:09 am
My copy of Winamp plays Ogg files fine; probably whatever the latest version is will do you fine.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: jough on February 28, 2004, 02:36:01 am
Yeah, I figured it out.  I had disabled the output plugin for Ogg.

I've ripped a few CDs in both Ogg and MP3 to try them out, and out of the three I tried:

Frank Sinatra: Live at the Sands
Mozart: Requiem
Radiohead: Kid A

The results were:

No discernable difference.
Ogg Vorbis.
Ogg Vorbis by a landslide.

I've always had problems with Kid A and mp3 - certain tracks always crackled and clipped.  Very strange.  No problem with Ogg Vorbis.

Oh, and the file sizes with the Ogg Vorbis (default settings in Audiograbber) and MP3 (192kb) were about 20% smaller than mp3.

But will Ogg Vorbis, with its alien-sounding name, become as ubiquitous as MP3?  Time will tell.  But I don't see any other standard taking hold, especially since everyone wants to either try to make money from the deal, or else institute some kind of Digital Rights Management to restrict how you can use or copy a file (like, say, iTunes, or WMA).

Anything that is more restrictive than MP3 will fail.  People are used to the freedom - they're not going to embrace a format that restricts playback.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: CortJstr on February 28, 2004, 03:10:54 am
Quote from: "jough"
But will Ogg Vorbis, with its alien-sounding name, become as ubiquitous as MP3?  Time will tell.  But I don't see any other standard taking hold, especially since everyone wants to either try to make money from the deal, or else institute some kind of Digital Rights Management to restrict how you can use or copy a file (like, say, iTunes, or WMA).

Anything that is more restrictive than MP3 will fail.  People are used to the freedom - they're not going to embrace a format that restricts playback.


The problem is people like Sony and Apple have lots of reasons to make equipment that only supports more restrictive formats while people are likely to support ogg as they learn about it because it's totally free which even mp3 cannot boast.

We need to see what hits critical mass first. Ogg has been steadily moving up for the past couple of years but I don't know if it'll ever really reach the mainstream Littlest Groom/Kazaa/"what's a primary?" types out there.
Title: Is so shallow! - 25 February 2004
Post by: Bozack on February 28, 2004, 07:59:08 am
Quote from: "CortJstr"
I don't know if it'll ever really reach the mainstream Littlest Groom/Kazaa/"what's a primary?" types out there.

Hah, my new classification is "mainstream Littlest Groom Kazaa whats a primary type".