The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Wild Card => Topic started by: linnea on May 12, 2004, 12:49:49 am
-
So how many of you here have ever had migraines?
What do you take for them?
Well, I have a family history of migraines, my pa used to get them all the time.
Last Thursday I began to have a severe "sinus headache". My head throbbed anytime that I moved, but it got really bad whenever I stood up, bent down, or moved from a sitting position. I suffered through it, in my typical "Let's ignore it and we'll pretend like nothing is wrong".
On Thursday and Friday I packed dozens of boxes. On Saturday, I drove a big-ass diesel truck, hauled tons of shit upstairs, and spent Saturday and Sunday unpacking. I took a super-hot bath and was taking ibuprofen and Tylenol all weekend, but nothing helped.
I went to work all day on Monday. I tried to work out, but on my 3rd mile on the treadmill I was almost crying with pain. I was all nauseated and with the feeling that I had been punched in the face, like all my facial bones were just shattered.
Yeah, that was a migraine.
Three shots in the ass at the doctor's + fistful of prescription pills + leaving work to take a 3-hour nap = a hefty dose of FUCK YOU MIGRAINE.
:) I feel so much better now. If this ever happens again, I am heading to the doctor's office for the three-shot cocktail. Are there any other remedies that works for you guys? Does your doctor give you a prescription that you can keep with you if you start getting a migraine?
-
Nope, don't have 'em. But I had to vote for Cowboyneal (at the wheel). With a name like August West, could I do anything else?
-
I don't get 'em, but that's a beautiful post. It's attractively put together, and also informative and well-written. Are you sure you aren't lost?
-
Yep. Oh I get the fuckers.
What makes them worst, no that's bullshit, but what is really annoying is that a migraine I can feel coming. That pressure on the back of the eyes, sinusy, eerie feeling that builds up over the course of a few hours until it either goes away or turns into the kind of migraine where you can't move your eyeballs, even with your eyes closed, for the agony.
I haven't ever gotten shots for them though. I've had three day migraines, but generally I keep going through them now. I take all the codiene I can, but it doesn't really do much anymore.
And indeed, props on the medicated post. Lovely stuff.
-
I get migraines. Had one Saturday, in fact. I've had 'em since I was nine. Not fun. What Slink is describing is known as an "aura" -- mine comes (occasionally) in the form of an odd smell I can't seem to place, but that vaguely reminds me of dentists.
What do I take for them? A day off. I have been to the ER twice, but they've never been kind enough to give me the shot. No, they had to do pregnancy tests first, both times (even though I told them I was a virgin the first time, which was true) and by the time the results came back, well, the first time whatever oral painkiller Mom had given me at home had kicked in, and the second time, I just threw up on a nurse and instantly felt better. (I don't think the nurse did, though.) Basically, when I have a migraine, I just shut myself in a dark room and take enough of whatever prescription painkillers I have on hand to knock me out for eight or twelve hours. It sounds like I'm a junkie or something, but it's really all I can do. It beats the hell out of paying a $200 hospital bill six weeks later because my fscking insurance doesn't believe in migraines.
Bastards.
-
When I get my house-with-basement, I'm finishing it off with a complete isolation tank, inclusive of light-weight IV painkiller drip. Nothing better for a migraine than the constant influx of sweet, sweet drugs and a total lack of noise, odor, light, movement, and pressure.
Linnea, thank you for gracing The Lounge with that glorious post. I feel honored to not moderate it.
-
Yeah, I still get 'em every now and again, but I used to get them just about every day when I was in college.
There was nothing to take for them, until I started drinking heavily - then the migranes went away.
I had been straight edge before that - I didn't even drink on my 21st birthday, but those college girls drove me to drink, and the large amounts of alcohol made my headaches go away. I never even had a hangover EVER until just last year.
Now if I drink I get a headache pretty much an hour later if I have anything stronger or in greater quantity than a single bottle of beer.
-
Ooooh. Guess what I have right now.
Fuck. Time to go to bed and watch sealab for a few hours then.
-
Woldn't it be nice if people could go to the doctor and say "this is what I have, and I know that this is what I have, so I don't need any tests. Just give me a scrip for "X" and I'll be on my way." My sweetie gets these allergic reactions, and she knows exactly what she needs to take, but after moving, she has to go through all the bullshit over again because even with medical records transferred, all the doctors are basically like "that's nice, miss, but you don't know what you are talking about. We're just going to perform these $500 worth of tests and then we'll tell you what's going on." Also, she has problems with her thyroid with the same basic result. Sometimes doctors are assheads.
-
Sometimes doctors are assheads.
Not kidding.
I had to go through 10 years of tests which eventually came down to, 'yes you were right, and yes there's fuck all we can do about it'. And a refusal for any kind of help too, which is nice.
My friend as well, he went to the States recently to try and sort some stuff out, and started having siezures while there. He got sent to ER where within the hour he had a CAT scan and was given piles of very nasty anti-siezure meds.
He's now been back here for about 6-8 weeks, and has seen his doctor numerous times, and ended up on the same meds he was given in America (despite the fact you should only take them for a week or so at most) since the ones he was given here gave him an all over rash, swole his eyes up and made him look like a zombie, and given him some really fucked up hallucinations, both physical and conventional.
He has seen a neurologist, in the last fortnight, finally, and that doesn't seem to have come to anything yet. And all the while still falling over and having these fits all the time. Add to that the mood swings, depression and lack of appetite that the drugs also give him.
It's horrifically fucked up, especially happening just after a nasty breakup, and goes to show how UK doctors are the worst!
Oh yea, this is the guy who broke his wrist and the hospital said it wasn't... After hurting it again he was taken to another hospital by an ambulance driver picking up a friend who just dropped on his bike, and discovered that his wrist was broken in both bones. Had to have surgery for that one, but didn't sue.
Bah, fuck*ng doctors. They're the worst!
-
I just found out yesterday that, after a year of dealing with a major health problem and making four emergency trips to the doctor or the hospital, all I need is one pill a day for fifteen days to fix it. I wish I could tell you more, but I'm not really ready to talk about it yet...suffice to say, everything's going to be fine, now that I have a doctor who didn't get his medical degree from a cracker jack box.
The beauty is, I did fifteen minutes of research on the internet and asked my Mom about our family history (which the previous two doctors told me didn't matter) before I discovered what it took three doctors to diagnose. It took me a year to find a doctor who would take ten minutes to listen to me and take my word for what my symptoms are instead of assuming that I'm too young to have that particular problem. And, he told me yesterday that I paid $500 to have tests done this past January that he didn't see any point in having done. I'm more than a little pissed. But, like most patients, I'm just so relieved that I finally have a diagnosis (whereas before they said "we don't know what's wrong with you, but it's probably not dangerous") that I'm not even considering filing suit. I just want to get over it and get on with my life.
-
Doctors are not special. They just went to school for longer than most of us. There are morons out there who are doctors. There are also geniuses hauling your garbage.
The lesson here is what I've been trying to tell my mom for the longest:
1) challenge your physician
2) talk to the nurse, they usually know more about YOU than the doctor who is not patient oriented but disease and anatomical part oriented
3) if you don't like how the doctor talks to you get another doctor.
Those of us 40 or younger have a very different view of doctors than our parents. They were brought up to believe doctors are gods.
The best thing you can do for your aging parents is advocate for them when you need to and coach them about how to interact with doctors. Otherwise they may be stuck with crappy care and there are way too many doctors out there not to exercise your right to a voice and a choice.
-
The beauty is, I did fifteen minutes of research on the internet and asked my Mom about our family history (which the previous two doctors told me didn't matter) before I discovered what it took three doctors to diagnose. It took me a year to find a doctor who would take ten minutes to listen to me and take my word for what my symptoms are instead of assuming that I'm too young to have that particular problem. And, he told me yesterday that I paid $500 to have tests done this past January that he didn't see any point in having done. I'm more than a little pissed. But, like most patients, I'm just so relieved that I finally have a diagnosis (whereas before they said "we don't know what's wrong with you, but it's probably not dangerous") that I'm not even considering filing suit. I just want to get over it and get on with my life.
I totally agree, challenging doctors is the best thing that you can do.
My mom had a serious case of Graves Disease (http://www.thyroid.org/patients/brochures/Graves_brochure.pdf) that went undiagnosed for TEN YEARS. She developed pretty bad thyroid eye disease before she FINALLY switched doctors. Within the first ten minutes of visiting her new doctor, the doctor ordered a thyroid workup. Her previous doctor, who was a complete fucktard, kept telling her that it was just menopause that that she should quit whining.
She had to get her thyroid destroyed with radioactive iodine treatment, have 2 surgeries on her eyes, and all kinds of other treatment to hastily try and fix what 10 years' neglect of the disorder had caused.
Then again, my mom was not the best advocate for herself. When she was pregnant with me and my twin sister, back in 1978, her doctor didn't even know she was carrying twins. All the major red-flag-signs he completely missed, and of course my mom didn't deign to pick up a book about pregnancy. The guy didn't even measure her belly, for God's sake, or listen for a fetal heartbeat. One slightly positive aspect of our litigious society today is that fucktards like that doctor get weeded out pretty quickly.
-
Also, on the migraine topic: my ex used to get them and her doctor gave her these pre-loaded syringes and a monoject device. When she got a migraine going, I would load it up and give her the shot. Usually it cleared it up in about an hour.
I used to get migraines, but only for a three-four year period, when I lived in Columbus. I don't know why they stopped; maybe graduating had something to do with it....or some environmental factor there. I haven't had a bad headache in years, although I have had fevers of 105 degrees at least twice since then.
-
Yeah, being a doctor is really fucked up right now. My dad's a gastroenterologist, and he's pissed off about the people who they let out of medical school. Another reason why the "we don't know what it is" diagnosis is so popular: A doctor knows that, if he goes out on a limb and diagnoses something that's not obvious, and he's wrong, there's a pretty good chance he'll get sued. There was a really long story here explaining how, because my dad picked up a phone one night for another doctor's patient, he got sued and had to settle, but it's not all that interesting. Just depressing.
-
Yeah, the doctor who finally had the balls to diagnose me with something is an older guy with a New York accent. Probably not a coincidence that he'd take a more agressive approach. The whole medical system us screwed up, though -- nobody's happy with it, not doctors, not patients. The only people being adequately served are insurance companies.
Gaah. Don't get me started. I will seriously rant. And health care is a topic on which I am educated.
-
Fun fact I learned at work: It costs more to perform a mammogram than insurance/medicare will pay for. Thus places either have to close or make up the cost in other areas like MRI or PET.
Also, you don't have to remove your nipple ring when having a mammogram done.
-
Yeah, the doctor who finally had the balls to diagnose me with something is an older guy with a New York accent. Probably not a coincidence that he'd take a more agressive approach. The whole medical system us screwed up, though -- nobody's happy with it, not doctors, not patients. The only people being adequately served are insurance companies.
Gaah. Don't get me started. I will seriously rant. And health care is a topic on which I am educated.
It's not just the insurance companies. And socialized medicine has not been the answer anywhere it has been tried. A well-educated, vocal population of educated health care consumers can do more to fix this problem than any tinkering with the system can. People need to understand their options, be able to objectively get the information they need to make an informed health care decision for themselves, and most importantly be able to switch physicians, hospitals and health care plans easily and without penalty if they want or need to.
Fair competition for health care being consumed by people who either have advocates or who can and will make their decisions based on education, knowledge and a fair set of options will force doctors and health care systems from being bullies, setting unfair rates, or restricting interventions to people based on their economics.
Torte reform is also a big piece of this puzzle. A combination of legislative and market-oriented remedies can fix this problem.
-
And socialized medicine has not been the answer anywhere it has been tried.
"Socialized" medicine has not actually been tried anywhere. That term is a politically loaded epithetical misnomer. Canada, Germany, England, and other countries with a single-payer system, however, do have lower infant mortality rates, higher life expectancies, and better public health service, and not only does each individual pay less for services recieved, but these government pays less than half as much for the whole system than we, as Americans, pay as a group out of our own pockets for health insurance alone each year. Ten thousand Americans die each year of preventable causes because they have insufficient or nonexistant health insurance-- this, the self-proclaimed most economically developed nation in the world. And nobody will do anything about it, because any positive steps that might be taken are labeled "socialized medicine," and Americans, as a group, will not accept them.
Breathe. Breathe.
</mini-rant>
I told you not to get me started.
-
Torte reform is also a big piece of this puzzle. A combination of legislative and market-oriented remedies can fix this problem.
Yep, the way to improve the quality of healthcare is to allow healthcare providers to be negligent with impunity. Tort reform = insurance industry gouging.
-
Yes, except that I baited you.
The problem with US healthcare is not solvable by a single payer system, because it would not be accepted by Americans, nor do most Americans want government providing all of these services.
The lowest infant mortality rate of a nation of any size is Sweden at 3.49; ours is at 6.8 and there are probably 20 nations in between, including the UK, Denmark, Canada and Spain. It is difficult to take into account population variations, availability/acceptability of birth control, and migration, particularly "unofficial" migration.
Americans dying of preventable causes is a function of late detection and lack of awareness of risk more than it is an indictment of the health care system. Look particularly to the urban black communities of the US and prostate cancer for an example of this. Health educators promote screening, get out there and stump as hard as we can but people refuse to take responsibility, even to take a simple blood test. I had problems getting people with obvious, disgusting symptoms to come get treated for STDs. For Free.
Giving people MORE opportunity to put the responsibility for their health care on the government is not the answer. We need innovation, we need competition and we need support for Public Health Initiatives from the media, business, and communities. This is how to address preventable causes in the health care arena; at the end, though, personal responsibility is required.
We pay people hundreds of dollars to take their TB medication, in addition to maintaining many full time employees to drive around and watch them take the meds. However, we don't do this just for them - it's for you and others to NOT get infected by the clown with TB who won't care for himself. If it were not infectious we'll give him his options and if he doesn't take them and later dies, whose failure is that?
Should the government take care of a smoker with lung cancer? Pay for a desired but not medically indicated abortion? Repair a non-medically hazardous cosmetic condition? Who are you going to take care of and who are you not going to take care of? And whose money are you going to spend doing it?
The responsibility for this can not fall solely on government. Germany's government is approaching financial ruin (last month in Der Spiegel, an article entitled "Germany: a Joke?") under the weight of their entitlement social programs and other European countries are staggering as well. Look at the taxation rates in some of the nations you mention and then look at wha the average citizen is getting for health care there. It's no wonder that when people from all over the world want top of the line health care, they come to the US.
The problem in the US health care system is unnecessary procedures, litigation, and lack of choice/portability of health care. Level the playing field and educate the consumers - the quality will have to improve and the costs will have to come down as these organizations compete.
-
the quality will have to improve and the costs will have to come down as these organizations compete.
ya, it will just _have_ to, won't it?
i mean, wouldn't it be just a complete kick in the ass for the Insurance Companies and Pharm-o-Co's to end up ruling the world?
innocent[1] question:
why _are_ drugs so much cheaper in Canada?
[1] as in, i'm not baiting anyone, i have no idea what the answer is, am actually interested in hearing an answer.
-
innocent[1] question:
why _are_ drugs so much cheaper in Canada?
Only a tiny bit of the information that was brought up in the program, but there are numerous other sources for the same info: Mark Thomas (http://www.mtcp.co.uk/shows.php?id=36) did a show on this.
I don't know how well he is known over the pond, but check him out. Great guy and he has done a lot of worthwhile shows.
And a source that answers your question directly - here (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/02/23/358325-cp.html) and here (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3404452/).
-
A Captialist nation is unlikely to stand for governmental price controls this obvious.
The State of Hawaii is in a consortium with a bunch of other states and we get our drugs cheaper through a negotiated price. Remember also that every drug and procedure out there is on a medicaid price list and that is what government pays - it's less than a consumer price and less than a HMO/3rd party negotiated price. There are multiple price tiers, and some are in fact driven to some degree by market forces.
The fact that there are price differences based on these factors within the US alone is evidentiary that honest competition will bring the prices down.
Remember, though that less profit for the drug companies can mean less R and D. That means less new drugs, and less frequently.
-
I only wish I had more time. This is going to be half-assed, and for that I apologize.
The problem with US healthcare is not solvable by a single payer system, because it would not be accepted by Americans, nor do most Americans want government providing all of these services.
Agreed. And that, IMHO, is part of the problem. Americans are shooting themselves in the foot with their close-mindedness in this respect.
The lowest infant mortality rate of a nation of any size is Sweden at 3.49; ours is at 6.8 and there are probably 20 nations in between...
Thirty-three (http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Infant_Mortality_Rate_aall.htm), actually. Granted, that includes all nations...but if we count only developed nations, we still rank 28th (In spite of recent improvements, according to HRSA (http://www.mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa02/main_pages/page_07.htm)).
...It is difficult to take into account population variations, availability/acceptability of birth control, and migration, particularly "unofficial" migration.
That's true, but those factors would affect most developed nations roughly equally. Besides, should not the measure of quality health care be its success in meeting the needs of the community, rather than the relative ease with which it does so?
Americans dying of preventable causes is a function of late detection and lack of awareness of risk more than it is an indictment of the health care system.
This is true, but the 10,000 Americans to which I refer are cases that can specifically be linked to inadequate insurance. These are individuals who, because they could not afford treatment, did not seek medical care (resulting in delayed diagnoses) delayed or discontinued care they knew they needed, or were unable to access medications that would have saved their lives for financial reasons. Should this number seem high, let me point out that one million Americans die annually from preventable causes. One percent of all preventable deaths doesn't seem like much -- until it affects someone you know.
Should the government take care of a smoker with lung cancer? Pay for a desired but not medically indicated abortion? Repair a non-medically hazardous cosmetic condition? Who are you going to take care of and who are you not going to take care of?
Who do private insurers take care of? Not my friend's husband, who had cancer ten years ago. He's self-employed, and no insurance company will take him on -- no matter how much he pays. Private insurers also won't take care of my three year old nephew, who's autistic -- mental health patients are one of the most needy and most underserved groups in America. Private insurers won't pay for my mother's post-hysterectomy hormone supplements (which may prevent breast cancer and osteoperosis), and they won't pay for Vioxx for my brother, who is crippled by Crohn's-related arthritis at the age of 34. They won't pay for one of the two medications recently prescribed for me so that an otherwise healthy twenty five year old woman can have a baby. So before you tell me who we shouldn't be covering, let me tell you who we should.
The responsibility for this can not fall solely on government...
Why can't it? That's an argument that I'm sick of hearing. In this country, we have something historians and political scientists used to call Civic Responsibility. It's why we have highways and a federally-supported military. It's why the police aren't hired guns, and why many remote rural communities have affordable electrical service. It's why we have public schools. Public schools are perhaps the best example of why health care should be everyone's responsibility. Sure, not everybody's happy with the public schools. But internationally, we rank second (http://www.nea.org/goodnews/) (just behind Finland) in child literacy rates. That's a far cry from being twenty-eighth or thirty-fifth (depending how you count) in health care. And regardless of anyone's criticism of public schools nationwide, the important thing is that every person in America -- even the children of illegal immigrants -- has access to the school system and all the services it provides.
Look at the taxation rates in some of the nations you mention and then look at wha the average citizen is getting for health care there.
Okay. Let's look.
Aggregate healthcare spending (as a function of the GDP) averages about $4,887 per capita in the United States. Switzerland -- the second highest spender -- spends $3,248 per capita, Germany around $2,800, and the U.K., about $2,000 in 2001.
But we wouldn't want that "inferior" care that people in other nations are content to settle for, would we?
Let's look again. Switzerland is ranked #20 by the WHO; Germany is ranked #25. The UK, the closest system we have to "socialized" medicine, is ranked #18. The United States is ranked #37.
If the German government is in dire straits, it's not because of their healthcare expenditures, I can assure you of that.
Ref. 1 (http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=237&i=310) Ref. 2 (http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article1567.html) Ref. 3 (http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf)
It's no wonder that when people from all over the world want top of the line health care, they come to the US.
That's not technically true. When wealthy people from all over the world want top of the line health care, and they are willing and able to pay for it, the come to the US. Meanwhile, thousands of people who live right here can't get access to the treatments they need because they are too expensive. For support, I refer you to the book Health Care Meltdown by the late Dr. Robert Lebow. I can't quote it here, but he devotes several chapters to the problem of accessibility in the American system. In essence, we have the technology, but most people can't afford to use it.
The problem in the US health care system is unnecessary procedures, litigation, and lack of choice/portability of health care. Level the playing field and educate the consumers - the quality will have to improve and the costs will have to come down as these organizations compete.
In my opinion -- and the opinions of many who are far, far wiser than I -- establishing a single-payor system is the optimal way of "leveling the playing field." Competition works in so far as demand remains elastic, but in the case of health care, it's just not. People have to have health care, and those who are able to pay exorbitant prices will continue to do so for as long as they are able. But health care isn't like any other commodity. It is a civil service, like public education. It is, I would argue, a basic human right. It's a right that's being denied to tens of thousands of Americans each year -- and ten thousand of them are dying for lack of it. Many people have suggested ways to modify the current system, ways to regulate it, and ways to improve what we have, but, call me a revolutionary, I believe the best thing we can do is dismantle it. Take the whole thing apart and start over. Otherwise, we're going to end up with a system that's so complicated, it will take a four-year degree just to figure out how to get a prescription.
And that's my opinion. Am I cute when I'm politically inflamed?
-
Remember, though that less profit for the drug companies can mean less R and D. That means less new drugs, and less frequently.
One more thing...we should all know that much of a drug companies' "R&D" expenses are paid for through government research grants. Don't buy that "It costs $1000 to bring a new drug to market" bull crap. That money isn't coming out of GlaxoSmithKline's bottom line. It's coming out of taxpayers' pockets.
Edit: And it's fewer new drugs. Not less.
Nothin' but love, AD. You've just hit on my #1 Cause For Which I Am Willing To Fight. Also, my #1 Grammar-Nazi Inducing Language Peeve. Lucky you. ;)
-
Not to write an agonizingly long post, but:
As a Proud, Capitalist Republican I can tell you that the last thing this country needs is to become a giant teat with the government training every successive generation to suckle...that was Johnson's "war on poverty". Creating entitlements is a failed idea.
The immigration argument you make is interesting but flawed when you take into account the type of immigrants and also the controls european countries have over immigration; very few countries have nearly the open borders we have and in fact in Europe it is a lot harder to immigrate, get work, and find a place to live if you are an illegal immigrant. Certainly not the case here.
Your family's experiences with particularly bad health problems is probably not a baseline for most families. It's lamentable but it's pretty close to what I might consider the worst case scenario, unless my family and circle of friends are just startlingly healthy. Truly it's almost unfair to present that in an argument because for me to say much on counterpoint makes me sound like a dick who hates your family. Not the case.
In terms of Infant Mortality: the US has better technology and better medicine than any other country on Earth. That means people who would be infertile or incapable of carrying a baby to term in any other place do so here, and there are so many more high-risk pregnancies and low-prognosis births here as a result. You just can't compare those numbers in a vacuum; it's not fair to the health professionals who work really hard to help childless people have children, and give very sick babies the best chance at life. These are parents who would have no chance to be parents in many other places, and babies who survive against impossible odds - we can't just let these fall into the other column of the statistics in this discussion. In some ways, the quality of our health care drives that statistic. Also Dr Gerberding just today announced the restructuring of CDC to address some specific health outcomes across the range of life. It will be interesting to see what the "Nation's Health Department" looks like in a few years.
Lowering everyone's quality of care will never be the right approach to solving health disparities. I endorse a safety net for the people who need it the most but I don't want my ability to choose my healthcare taken away. I don't want to be placed on waiting lists for elective procedures. I don't want the best procedures rationed out on a triage basis. I don't want to have to wait for health care and I don't want to pay taxes that go to treat other people's bad behaviors.
The drug companies are forced to balance profit against progress against disease and bad health outcomes. They compete against each other for both the research grant money and for consumer dollars. This type of competition is inherently good in a publicly held company; it forces the companies to be both innovative, responsible for grant money, and profitable all at the same time. And it keeps people employed with excellent prospects, something that government employment doesn't really offer.
This is the worst part of the idea the government should perform this service: relegating us all to clinics that look and feel like the Department of Motor Vehicles, being treated by a doctor whose income is the same regardless of the quality of care he puts out, and unsuable because he represents the government.
Count me out.
-
Yeah, count me out on socialised health care.
I mean, have you SEEN the things the government runs?
The post office. That's really all I need to say.
-
Yeah, an organization that can get a document from one end of the country to the other in less than a week, all for the princely sum of 37 cents. And they do it millions of times a day. What a bunch of fuckups.
Seriously, you shouldn't say this kind of stuff too loud. You don't want your mailman to get disgruntled do you?
-
I really want to respond, AD, but I can't now -- I don't have time to do the neccessary research. I'll just say one thing, and then go to bed.
My family's experience is thrown out there to point out that we're not the poor and underpriveledged in this country. We're a regular, upper-middle class family with what is generally considered to be good health insurance. All of us have policies that are provided or supplemented by our employers, and all of us (except me) have stable, highly-paid, professional jobs. And if we're struggling, how much harder must it be for people who don't have jobs with salaries and benefits? Disease doesn't care how much you make.
Tomorrow, when I have time, I'm going to find you some numbers on infant mortality as compared to fertility rates. I think you'll be surprised.
[EDIT: CONTENT DELETED
Choop's right. I got *too* personal. (See subsequent post). Sorry. I'm still dealing with some "issues," and I shouldn't vent that here. Apologies all around.
This is why I gave up K5 (http://www.kuro5hin.org/). I get too uptight about this kind of stuff.
Even admins make mistakes.]
-
I don't mean to be an asshole. Really I don't. I just didn't sign up to moderate the Serious Socio-Political Debate forum. If one is desired, cheers to you, create "The Parlor" or something that is dedicated to such. I don't want it in The Lounge.
The health care system in the US is fucked up, as is that of the UK, and those of France, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc... Whom I pity are those where little or no health care exists, much less systems to manage it. Management systems are symptoms of a greater problem.
Should you desire to remedy the situation, donate to the Red Cross, who travel wherever their help is needed and can be administered safely, or the Missionaries of Charity, which Mother-soon-to-be-Saint-already-Mahatma-and-avatar-of-Kali Teresa founded back around 1950, if you don't oppose the opposition to abortion. The best way to promote health care in the world is to aid those who provide what is possible where it can possibly be provided.
Mod Warning: If I see another post in this thread - and I'm signed up to "watch" it - it will be deleted as soon as I know of it.
-
JL's last post got very personal at the end, and I just want to say that she must have been composing it when I began composing mine. At any rate, this topic is CLOSED until moved into a separate forum.
-
You may feel free to continue this discussion in "The Study" - which is the place for political discussion, and is moderated by the Hon. AugustWest.
And Choop, if you delete one of my administrative posts again, I will delete ALL of yours.
-
I'm just trying to do my best at keeping you pissed off at me.
Kisses.
-choop-