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[Ben-San]

The costumes were spot on.

I disagree strongly with this statement for reasons that are rather obscure to anyone who is not a comics nerd - but Watchmen has a lot that's for comics nerds anyway, so I feel justified in this.

In the comic, almost all the "current" characters' costumes are mid-lateish 70s-styled designs at the latest (Nite-Owl, who has strong elements of Neal Adams Batman). They're dated, and that's deliberate since the costumed heroes haven't been active since then. The exceptions are Ozymandias, who has kept up the kind of minor design changes that happen over time with a given superhero's costume, and the Comedian, who has an extremely 80s comics design for his 80s costume - and a 40s design for his 40s costume (like the rest of the 40s characters), and.. well, his 70s costume is just a gimp mask, I got nothing there. It is one of many touches that establish the masked hero as a dated phenomenon and the characters as being, to varying degrees, stuck to their pasts.

In the movie, the costume designs are aggressively slick in a very 00s way, to the point that I found them jarring in a setting otherwise trying very hard to establish an alternate 1980s. Yes, this kind of design looks less "silly" - but a grown man dressing up as an owl is supposed to feel a bit silly, notwithstanding that his owl-suit is full of very serious and dangerous toys.

Also, Ozymandias's outfit just looked.. really bad. Gold-spraypainted plastic is not regal, and being able to survive close-range small-arms fire is a little less awe-inspiring when the character is wearing a very clearly armored suit.

[jay-ell]

I'm with Ben in that I was less than impressed with the costumes, but couldn't put my finger on why 'til he articulated it.  They all looked too "new." 

The actors, however...the casting director did an excellent job of matching real-life faces with comic-book faces.  No small task.  Adrian Voight wasn't quite right, but the rest were uncanny. 

[Doc]

I thought Dan looked a little young and lean but it didn't bother me. Rorschach was amazing of course. If nothing else I think the fact that everyone seems to love him despite his completely repulsive nature will spur some conversation.

[CortJstr]

I thought Dan looked a little young and lean but it didn't bother me. Rorschach was amazing of course. If nothing else I think the fact that everyone seems to love him despite his completely repulsive nature will spur some conversation.

It's his line about not wanting to interfere with operation of the ship. It makes it all better.

[Doc]

It was a good line.

[miles]

Just saw it today. It was supposed to start at 12:10 and I walked in at about 12:08 (there was some kind of convention thingy next door so parking was terrible) and the murder scene was already like halfway through. Plus, as the scene is pretty low-lit, I was stumbling to find my seat. So I was annoyed from the beginning. But I really liked the credits sequence. I was bored throughout large parts of the rest of the movie, and I wonder if this has something to do with me just having read the book like a month ago (have you seen it yet, Asherdan?). And Veidt? Ridiculous. Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan? Awesome. Everyone else? Passable enough.

Also:

I feel like Zach Snyder needs to figure out that no one's ever going to make The Lobby Scene again and so he should stop trying.

You're right about that. I was disappointed when I learned he was directing because I disliked '300' a good deal. When is someone going to start shooting violence in an original way again? Or not even original, but at least skillfully? It probably also doesn't help that I didn't like The Matrix much anyway.

[nDed]

According to my friend, the best part of the movie was the look of sheer horror that washed across my face as the synth drums of 99 Luftaballons approached.

<rorschach>
Good movie, but long. Questionable soundtrack. Dr. Manhattan in full swing.
</rorschach>

[pmcd9]

No, but the conversation here has made me think it's worthy.

'sfunny, the comments in this thread have convinced me it probably sucks.

[Cioran]

If nothing else I think the fact that everyone seems to love him despite his completely repulsive nature will spur some conversation.

It's possible that Rorschach is a magnetic character because he embodies something many feel to be missing in their lives: dedication to a moral ideal. He will stop at nothing to fix the world. Many feel pulled down by the undertow of relativism and superficiality but know instinctively that this cannot be all. When one rises above, they look to him and feel a thrill of possibility.

Veidt also has this dedication but he had it too easy, he's too rich, too goodlooking, too confident. He's not from Circumstances. Rorschach, like Beef, came up from the shit and struggles for the good, however badly distorted his vision is. The Batman in Dark Knight Returns had a similar appeal.

I recommend the film "Mindscapes of Alan Moore". Moore discusses the magic potency of ideas and creative art and his comments may help illuminate your thinking on Rorschach and Watchmen.

[lprkn]

He is admirable in the way Fëanor in the Silmarillion is admirable. His dedication to his ideal/code/oath will brook no interference, even as his world crumbles around him. You can respect him, but you are not meant to admire him.

He is inflexible in his application of his version of justice. The tree that does not bend in the storm will break.

As for Rorschach and Veidt, they are similar to a degree, but I would not attribute their differences to Circumstances or a lack thereof. One simply has more resources and a grander vision, and perhaps even less humanity, despite his refined exterior. At least Rorschach cares about some of his former friends colleagues.

15 Balrogs, that's all I'm sayin'.

[dejavroom]

Meanwhile, man kills self during screening.

[theinevitable]

He is admirable in the way Fëanor in the Silmarillion is admirable. His dedication to his ideal/code/oath will brook no interference, even as his world crumbles around him. You can respect him, but you are not meant to admire him.

He is inflexible in his application of his version of justice. The tree that does not bend in the storm will break.

I have realized that what makes the guy across the hall from me insane is that he admires people like this above all. Maybe I'm exaggerating. But he idealizes these people/characters with unbending moral Rules, and wants to live his life in that way.

My theory is that he wants Rules, because he is not capable for some reason of just trying the main rule of life, something along the lines of "don't be a dick all the damn time, seriously dude, lighten up and try not to constantly be an asshole."
"Treat others like you want to be treated."

The other day we spent probably an hour where he was trying to come up with a moral principle whereby it was MORALLY RIGHT that he refused to watch "Midnight Cowboy" with us.
He is one of few people I've met where... a lot of the time, I think he is acting the way he is as some kind of show for all of us.

I have still not seen this movie, also. He went on a rant about how it was stupid and irrelevant, but could not really give well-formed reasons.

[smick]

I have still not seen this movie, also. He went on a rant about how it was stupid and irrelevant, but could not really give well-formed reasons.

Did you suggest that maybe he didn't want to?

[lprkn]

Just let him know that appreciating the male bonding and watching the sex acts in that movie won't make him watching it made him officially gay.

[theinevitable]

that guy is just... he is a hard guy to handle.

I try really really hard to chalk what he does up to good intentions with an insane mind, but he is actually kind of a jerk.

originally he was going to live with us next year, and somehow that has morphed into "actually, I'm going to live in the horrible cesspit-like basement next door to you guys."


We tried arguing things along the lines of "different people like different things in movies," but he would not have it.

Also: Midnight Cowboy, that movie is FUCKED UP. How did that win best picture? I can't imagine an america where that happened.