Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jaydub]

Yeah, I think that even most conservatives if they're being honest will admit that, wherever they think the Republicans are trying to govern from, at the end of the day what the Democratic party actually tries to DO legislatively is if anything a little bit right-of-centre.

Certainly that's the view of us from overseas.  The American political left is pretty right wing among Western governments.

Not that that's a bad thing, IMO.

[JorgeFabregas]

Prop A (municipal income tax thingy) passed by a huge margin, although it lost in St. Louis and Kansas City. So the voters in suburban and rural Missouri have decided that us city-folk need to vote on our own taxes. We don't want to vote on our taxes! Heh. I guess there's a good chance that the taxes will be affirmed in the spring.

Prop B (anti-puppymill thngy) also passed. In a reversal of prop A, it passed because of the city vote. Now lawmakers are talking about repealing it because us city folk just don't know what we voted on (while rural folk apparently are experts on city taxes).
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/columns/the-platform/article_a4bb3aa0-eb8e-11df-bede-0017a4a78c22.html

Last May, seven months before voters had their say, rural legislators tried to preempt the vote by prohibiting citizen initiatives involving any aspect of agriculture. It was blatantly unconstitutional. But no fewer than five bills containing similar language were introduced.

Now that Proposition B, the so-called Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention Act, has been approved, lawmakers are gearing up to override it.

“Voters who voted on Proposition B did not understand what it does,” said state Rep. Tom Loehner, R-Koeltztown, chairman of the House Agriculture Committee.

Mr. Loehner, a hog farmer, sponsored one of those five bills to prohibit citizen initiatives on agriculture.

He uses the fact that it failed in 100 of the state’s 114 counties as justification.

“There’s a lot of people (in urban areas) who just do not understand agriculture,” he said.

We could make the reverse argument about other complex issues, but that misses the point.

Missouri’s urban areas are home to most of its population and most of its voters. The state constitution allows voters to “propose and enact or reject” laws.

That’s what happened with Proposition B. Nearly 61,000 more Missourians voted in favor of the initiative than voted against it.

[wombat]

I think it's absolutely true that city folk don't understand agriculture. But obviously country folk don't understand that city folk don't think dogs are livestock, so that what they know about agriculture is beside the point.

[arkabee]

if someone wants to raise dogs like livestock, hey, that's great.
just don't sell them as pets,
sell them as live stock.

because noone wants to buy a near feral, inbred, chronic fucked up dog at a pot (edit- hahah, pot store? ok, maybe they would... how about a pet store though)  store for 500 dollars.

maybe some people wouldn't mind eatin' them, though, but not for that markup.

i love hearing the 'breeders' whine (like the dogs they are 'breeding') about how the government is trying to interfere with their business practice. none of them give a shit that the government precludes me from making a profit running them down for cash.

the missouri thing is bullshit politics, all the way around.  i was listening to the ads for the vote all "season" coming out of the bootheel. 

it's not a rural/city issue.  i think it's a "these 'breeders' are giving me a shit load of money so i'm going to kiss their ass" thing or a "i'm going to make it seem to be a rural/city issue so i can make myself seem edgy and important and more 'conservative' and 'homey'" thing.

seriously, missouri, i was born in you.  do you want to be a state where 'people' 'breed' dogs like slaughter pigs to sell them to your kids for christmas, or do you want to be a state where people breed dogs?

i expect better of you, show me state.  i know you have to deal with Haiti Heights, but you don't have to deal with this bullshit too.

[JorgeFabregas]

The agriculture argument comes in mainly because opponents of the prop said it was a slippery slope that would inevitably lead to heavy regulation of enclosed hog farms. Of course there's no ambiguity in the prop about the animal in question. So the idea is that now that Missouri voters have shown that they are open to regulation regarding some animals, outside animal activists will swoop in and force them to change their laws regarding all other animals (not that I would be opposed to this, but I know the treatment of dogs and the treatment of livestock has no connection in most people's minds).

Apparently they made the same argument against the banning of cockfights in the nineties.

[wombat]

if someone wants to raise dogs like livestock, hey, that's great.
just don't sell them as pets,
sell them as live stock.

because noone wants to buy a near feral, inbred, chronic fucked up dog at a pot (edit- hahah, pot store? ok, maybe they would... how about a pet store though)  store for 500 dollars.

That is a really good way to frame the issue.

I totally sympathize with people who are afraid of extremist animal activists. For some of those people, their dream world is one where no one owns a pet or has any contact or relationship with any animal at all. Those people are totally my enemy. I can hardly see how that's a reason to allow people to breed dogs in any fucked up way they want, however.

[Choop]

don't get kicked

[arkabee]

That is a really good way to frame the issue.

another great way to frame it would have been for those in favor of the legislation to have met with, visited, and discussed the issue with the puppy factory owners and operators.

and filmed it.

and then shown the film.

i'm not talking about the puppies, or where they live.

and i'm not talking about editing it to make the people look bad.

no, i mean the voters should really get to know the real 'people' who would be economically impacted by the legislation.

but then i think it's lazy to hate a nameless, faceless group of people and just know them by some simple and fallible label.  the correct way to hate a man is to know his name and how he smells and how he spits chaw in the parking space so when you get out of the car you step in it as you go and put his motherfuck*ng cart into the cart return.

dammit i am worked up, wtf was i thinking being in this thread?
you know when i joined touamb? around the 04 election.  i think we can guess why i joined touamb rather than, say, fascistsdressedasbunnies.org or freethinkerswhoreallyjustdontwanttopayt axes.org instead.  it's because i hate mycardiologist and want his new pool to never be payed for by my forthcoming massive stroke.


also, and more importantly:

asherdan is rad.

[miles]

This thread isn't technically dead, is it? Didn't know where else to post this.

Each political party has found it easy to turn on a dime from decrying to defending the blocking of judicial nominations, depending on their changing political fortunes.

Ohhhhh shiiiiiiit!

[jaydub]

I didn't know Captain Obvious wore black robes.

[lprkn]

Justice Obvious to you, mister.

[Choop]

Breaking News Alert
The New York Times
Wed, January 19, 2011 -- 6:09 PM ET
-----

House Votes to Repeal Health Care Law

The House on Wednesday voted to repeal the Democrats'
landmark health care overhaul, in a largely symbolic step
that the new Republican majority said marked the beginning of
an all-out effort to dismantle President Obama's signature
domestic policy achievement.

Leaders of the Democratic-controlled Senate have said that
they will not act on the repeal measure, effectively
scuttling it.

A House majority voted 245 to 189 to repeal the measure.

ugh. at least the senate seems a little saner here.

[Nabubrush]

I had read that was coming a little while ago. Fuck those guys.

[Doc]

Seriously, you're paying these dudes to make 'largely symbolic gestures'?

[pmcd9]

Seriously, you're paying these dudes to make 'largely symbolic gestures'?

Well yeah, that and obstruct any real progress.