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Author Topic: Prescriptive grammar  (Read 16178 times)

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pmcd9

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2013, 06:49:20 am »

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Choop

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2013, 07:19:12 am »

Who else listened to the podcast about "vocal fry" on Slate?

http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley/2013/01/lexicon_valley_on_creaky_voice_or_vocal_fry_in_young_american_women.html

I want to talk about this, but I can't right now.

i'm listening to it right now. before your post i hadn't ever heard the phrase "vocal fry" but damn if i didn't know exactly what it was as soon as i read it. i think i might have to listen to more of these.
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wombat

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2013, 01:00:48 pm »

i just thought the s->z slide on plurals was good old fashioned germanic laziness seeping through and ruining crispness of pronunciation found in the romance group due to the hybridization of the two from which our ridiculous language stems.

Nope, not at all. It is a consistent and regular process. I'll let you go and try to figure out the generalization for yourself, how about it? No Googling.
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miles

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2013, 10:09:17 pm »

Who else listened to the podcast about "vocal fry" on Slate?

http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley/2013/01/lexicon_valley_on_creaky_voice_or_vocal_fry_in_young_american_women.html

Bob Garfield can be such an irritating, arrogant fuck. I usually like both On the Media and Lexicon Valley, though sometimes I just want to curb-stomp the motherfucker. This article on Slate was written in response to the podcast, and I like the commentary on Garfield's way of speaking:

Quote
Of course, young women could work to flatten their speech patterns to conform to Garfield’s own NPRish affectation, which one commenter describes as “Richard Pryor making fun of WASPs."

Totally unrelated. Wombat, is there an American regional variation in the pronunciation of 'human'? I just heard two people on the radio, and one pronounced it with the 'h' and the other pronounced it 'you-man'. I wondered if they even realized that they were pronouncing it differently. Both are American, but I don't know what regions either are from.
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theinevitable

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2013, 11:12:47 pm »

My roommates make fun of me for "cran" (for crayon) and "harrible" (horrible). At work I get grief for the way I say "toddy"--I guess I say it with the same sound I use for horrible.

There are definitely americans who say you-man, my Human Evolution professor was one. He was from somewhere in the north-east.
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linnea

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2013, 01:49:56 am »

i'm listening to it right now. before your post i hadn't ever heard the phrase "vocal fry" but damn if i didn't know exactly what it was as soon as i read it. i think i might have to listen to more of these.

I have never heard of "creaky voice" or "vocal fry" until now. I guess I never noticed it, but on recollection I do remember young women and girls doing it. It doesn't really bother me that much but maybe I've only been exposed to specimens who display minimum annoyance.
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wombat

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2013, 03:11:45 am »

I don't know if that variation is regional. This here reliable source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/magazine/07FOB-onlanguage-t.html?_r=0
says that pronouncing the h in human originated as a spelling pronunciation, but it doesn't say if it's more common some places than others.
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pmcd9

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2013, 03:15:51 am »

Ever since listening to that podcast I can't not hear it. There was even someone on the radio yesterday, a reporter who was doing it.
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linnea

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2013, 09:02:03 pm »

Ever since listening to that podcast I can't not hear it. There was even someone on the radio yesterday, a reporter who was doing it.

Yeah, I agree, now that I know there's a name for it. Ever since I was a little girl, it seems like I have been surrounded by others who liked to do funny vocal sound effects everywhere, all the time. I figured that the vocal fry was just another sound effect to convey an additional layer of meaning. Now that I know how often I do it, I had better watch it, say during interviews. I never realized that people would take offense to it.
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KeithHernandez

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2013, 10:12:11 pm »

I listened to that podcast and still don't know what it is.  I don't particularly care though, so I have that going for me.
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pmcd9

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2013, 10:17:53 pm »

It might actually be a good thing to do in an interview. According to that podcast studies show that women who use it are perceived as more successful.
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linnea

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2013, 11:18:56 pm »

It might actually be a good thing to do in an interview. According to that podcast studies show that women who use it are perceived as more successful.

I think the people that were polled were young college students. Since the old white guys seem to hate the hell out of vocal fry, maybe I ought to lay off it.

I listened to that podcast and still don't know what it is.  I don't particularly care though, so I have that going for me.

Did you hear when the little girl Ida did the upspeak, and then the lowered her voice to almost a growl? It's the lowering the voice and making it sound gruff/rumbly that is vocal fry.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 11:26:14 pm by linnea »
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KeithHernandez

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2013, 01:54:54 am »

Yeah, since she did those other vocal things I couldn't really tell.  Also, it wasn't only women in those studies, but it was based on age range.  So if this guy is under 30 try it maybe?
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jaydub

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2013, 02:48:47 am »

Search for it on the Youtubes and you'll have no trouble finding examples.
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jay-ell

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Re: Prescriptive grammar
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2013, 07:35:30 pm »

My daughter does the vocal fry thing. It's...disconcerting.

I get the tendency to drop one's voice to try to sound authoritative, though. I have to pull this at work all the time -- if I speak in my natural timbre, it's impossible to make myself heard in a crowd.
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