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[AugustWest]

OK, a quick google showed me that 45 minute cassettes go for about 44 cents each in bulk, plus 28 cents for a case.  

CD's are about 22 cents each, plus 10 cents for the case.

We can consider the art/insert to be a wash -- should cost roughly the same for cassette or CD.  I'd guess that labor on reproducing a cassette would be more too, if only because it takes longer to do.  But I haven't documented that so we can leave it out.  So about 75 cents for a cassette versus 32 cents for a CD.  Twice as much.

Are you seriously suggesting that cassette players are more available that CD players?  Seriously?  I mean, cassette decks haven't been made for the mass market in about 20 years.  Every laptop and desktop computer has a CD player in it.  Most vehicles made since about 1990 have CD players.

And surely you aren't suggesting you get better music quality off a cassette.  I mean, even before the thing starts disintegrating and getting dropouts, the sound quality is nowhere near a CD.  And maybe you like rewinding and fast-forwarding to get to the song you want.

And, as you say, nobody even uses CD's anymore.  If there's no good reason to use CD's now, it makes even less sense to go back to an even older and less versatile technology.

it is the cheapest way to produce something their target market will buy

This is a good explanation of why a band would sell them.  They sell them because people will buy them.  Still doesn't answer the real question -- why the fuck would anybody buy music cassettes in this day and age?

So, I'm right back to where I started:

Are cassettes:

Cheaper -- No.
Easier to use -- No.
Better sound quality -- No.

Do they help you look cool to the other young whippersnappers? -- Yep.  

Pretense.

[AugustWest]

I would rather have the mp3 and add the vinyl if I really like it,

Honest question here.  When you buy a tape or vinyl and you already have the mp3, which do you listen to?  Do you actually listen to the cassettes you buy, or are they just souvenirs?

I think I could grok it better if buying a cassette is like buying a band T-shirt or poster and not as a useful way to listen to music.

[theinevitable]

I think that last bit is part of it. I bought the cassette to support my friends and have a cool fold-out print my roommate's girlfriend made.

The thing that is boggling my mind is:
-Taking your craft "too" seriously: pretentious
-Not taking your craft seriously: pretentious

I tend to think the whole disposable goofy punk/garage indie scene is a reaction against painfully pretentious arty bands. So that is its own kind of pretention? I would like to know what isn't pretentious, then. Aug, do you wear a nice shirt when you play music with your duo? Is that necessary to the craft, or is that pretentious?

Part of it is also enjoying the blown-out sound of tapes. Legitimately. Not as some kind of weird ironic pose. I like how they sound. I like how things that are recorded to sound blown-out and shitty sound.
If that is hard to imagine, remember that guitar distortion is basically the sound of an overloaded vacuum tube. People started purposely making that sound because they liked it.

Here's a stumper for you: you guys all listen to/ like things that I can't imagine liking unless as part of a joke. But that fact doesn't mean you like them ironically. I am sure that you actually really like those things that I find unbearably lame.

This is all stupid because I think releasing a tape is slightly silly (but not pretentious), and I shouldn't be surprised that people my parents' age don't get the music I like.

[AugustWest]

I think that last bit is part of it. I bought the cassette to support my friends and have a cool fold-out print my roommate's girlfriend made.

That's cool, then.

The thing that is boggling my mind is:
-Taking your craft "too" seriously: pretentious
-Not taking your craft seriously: pretentious

Who said that?  I didn't.  I'm not sure you can take your craft too seriously, although you can probably take yourself too seriously.  And not taking your craft seriously isn't pretentious, it's just crappy.

Part of it is also enjoying the blown-out sound of tapes. Legitimately. Not as some kind of weird ironic pose. I like how they sound. I like how things that are recorded to sound blown-out and shitty sound.
If that is hard to imagine, remember that guitar distortion is basically the sound of an overloaded vacuum tube. People started purposely making that sound because they liked it.

I think that's a valid answer.  That's giving an aesthetic reason why cassettes are better.  Still not sure why the sound you like couldn't be reproduced on any digital format, but that's neither here nor there.  Do you carry a walkman around to listen to this music, or can you only listen to it when you're at home?  What percentage of your music listening is done on cassette?

Here's a stumper for you: you guys all listen to/ like things that I can't imagine liking unless as part of a joke. But that fact doesn't mean you like them ironically. I am sure that you actually really like those things that I find unbearably lame.

This is all stupid because I think releasing a tape is slightly silly (but not pretentious), and I shouldn't be surprised that people my parents' age don't get the music I like.

Nobody's talking about the actual music.  Nobody said you like this music ironically.  I have no idea what the music sounds like.  Could be great, could suck.  I still say the modern practice of distributing music on cassette has its roots in irony.

Why not just own it?

[pmcd9]

Back in the day famous bands would do silly releases with alternative names or limited pressings or only available in some strange country. It was pretentious, but it was also fun for the super fans to try and find this rare music. I doubt your friends band will ever be famous though and no one will ever give two shits about their cassette only album.

I reject all of Keith's arguments about why bands sell cassettes at their shows. As August proved, CDs are cheaper to make and everyone knows they are easier to make as well. But what about mp3s. You can put those on a cd too, or maybe one of those memory sticks, those are pretty dang cheap nowadays also. And I'm no old fogey either. I'm always on the lookout for good new music, I'm not stuck in my old ways happy to groove to Crosby Stills and Nash greatest hits or whatever you think us old farts are listening too. And I still go to shows too.

 I had a pretty huge cassette collection which mostly dates back to the time when cassettes were a viable music source. I just gave all of that shit away about a month ago.

I certainly agree with Wombat that cassettes suck to listen to. I believe you Inev if you say you actually like the sound of cassettes, but it's definitely got me scratching my head.

[KeithHernandez]

Okay, I could keep arguing and shit, but my main point now is that none of you are giving any thought to junk/thrift stores.  I am in those places like 1-2 times a week.  So are other people like me.  You know what they have in those places, besides "hipsters"?  A massive amount of completely new, empty cassettes for like 2 dollars.  It is pretty close to where you sometimes find the old decent stereos that people like me will buy to listen to shit on my back porch, etc.

[wombat]

What I get here from what Keith is saying is that we are talking about kids who are so poor and underemployed that it makes sense to shop thift stores for cheap cassettes and spend the extra time to copy them. But aren't downloads still cheaper? I am still not getting it about why you would not just buy the downloads. Why do you need to buy the cassette (in some cases even if you have the download) to "support the band." Why not pay for the download to support the band? Am I not getting it that all of these bands have downloads that you are not paying for?

[KeithHernandez]

What I get here from what Keith is saying is that we are talking about kids who are so poor and underemployed that it makes sense to shop thift stores for cheap cassettes and spend the extra time to copy them. But aren't downloads still cheaper? I am still not getting it about why you would not just buy the downloads. Why do you need to buy the cassette (in some cases even if you have the download) to "support the band." Why not pay for the download to support the band? Am I not getting it that all of these bands have downloads that you are not paying for?

I am only speaking for myself, but I am just guessing, again, I have more in common with the target market.

Right now my account has negative $355 and I have $6 in my wallet.  I also have honest access to multiple cassette players and one cd player I would never use.

And yes, all of these bands have mp3s I am getting for free.

[KeithHernandez]

And again, I have bought one fuck*ng cassette in the last ten years.  I just would prefer a cassette to a cd because I already have it on mp3 if I am at their show and I would actually use a cassette occasionally and wouldn't use a cd, ever. 

August- I have just basically everything ever on mp3, if I really, really like an album I look for it on vinyl because I have a really nice audio system that sounds great with vinyl and because I usually buy music as a way to support artists I already like/have the mp3s of.  That is my preferred way of doing it.  But, if I am at a show and I want to give the band some money and they don't have vinyls (this has been an issue once) I would go with the cassette over the cd, because, again, I will actually use the cassette and, more importantly, I already have the cd equivalent/better (more portable, fits in with the way I listen to music) mp3.

And just, IDK, literally the whole time I have been posting here I have been within ten feet of a working cassette player that I got for free/under $10 (two different players, one portable, one on my back porch.)

[pmcd9]

And yes, all of these bands have mp3s I am getting for free.

Thanks a lot Napster. Are you happy now, the kids have to listen to cassettes so the bands can get paid?

[wombat]

Yeah, that is what I am curious about. Keith, do the bands not change for mp3 downloads, or are you finding a way not to pay for them?

[KeithHernandez]

I am finding a way not to pay for them.  I think kids who are like 20 now are paying for music again, which is really good, but I think people like 20-30 don't and probably won't.  Also, yeah, as my tastes get more underground most bands have a bandcamp page where you decide how much to pay, with 0 generally being an option (but not always).

[jay-ell]

I am in my 30s, and I pay for mp3s. Especially when I want to support the artist producing it. I have paid for all of MC Frontalot's albums, and some of Jesse Dangerously and MC Chris's. I don't download music illegally if there is a legal way to get it.

The nerdcore rappers, they are good at giving you ways to give them money without having to deal with owning physical objects.

[theinevitable]

Speaking of things I find it impossible to believe people like unironically: nerdcore rappers. And yet here we have JL.

I download tons of mp3s for free. When I buy music, I buy vinyl. I don't remember the last time I bought a CD. Sadly I do not listen to my vinyl lately, since I share the stereo/the room the stereo is in with 5 other people. Most of the time video games or TV are happening in that room.

[KeithHernandez]

I am in my 30s, and I pay for mp3s. Especially when I want to support the artist producing it. I have paid for all of MC Frontalot's albums, and some of Jesse Dangerously and MC Chris's. I don't download music illegally if there is a legal way to get it.

The nerdcore rappers, they are good at giving you ways to give them money without having to deal with owning physical objects.

Yeah, I wasn't saying peeps in there 30s, more like about two years before I went to college to about the time I finished stealing music was like totally the thing to do, I don't know that my little mini generation will ever get over that.