The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Science & Nature => Topic started by: side_show on April 09, 2006, 03:21:26 pm
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I am back from my wonderful trip, I made more money than expected, and my play got picked up for full production for the 07/08 theatre season (aka even more money).
I am now in the market to buy a new computer, but am so technically unaware that I have no clue about the standards I should be aiming for.
My needs are fairly simple: word processing is the major use of my computer now, and would be on a new computer also. I would probably enjoy downloading music (and will refer to the MP3 player thread for further shopping), burning CD's (and maybe DVD's), and also, it would be alright, but not necessary, to have some decent desktop publishing options for making posters, programs and posters for my independently produced productions.
What should I be looking for? What are the standards? Is there anything that should I avoid at all costs? (Remember to speak slowly, as I am totally unschooled in the language of technology.)
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Is there anything you should avoid at all costs? Yes. The Pentium 4 and Intel Integrated graphics. These are 2 huge scams perpetrated on the market by the OEM's. They're overpriced and underpowered. You say that you aren't very technically minded, so I'm assuming that building your own machine is right out? But if you can that's what I'd reccomend. If you're looking for an ultimate budget box, look for something with an AMD Sempron or Turion processor. If you're willing to drop a few extra bucks look for something with an AMD Athlon 64. For no reason should you buy a PC with less than 512 MB of memory, 1 gig should be what you shoot for really. If, however, you are willing to look into building your own, you can usually get a lot more bang for your buck because OEM's have a way of tricking people into thinking they are getting a fast PC by invoking the Megahertz myth and scrimping on other components like decent RAM and a fast drive and integrated graphics. That's another thing, don't get taken in by clock speeds (MHz GHz etc..) they mean next to nothing.
Also, if money is no problem, buy a mac. You'll thank yourself.
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Well, if you buy a Mac, make sure it's one with an Intel chip - you'll be able to run Windows too.
Anyway, I could not recommend crappy Mac hardware to anyone, regardless of how much money you have to spend. The problem with the Mac platform is the hardware, not the software. When I can license OS X to run on a beige box (or in my case, a black box) I'll probably make the "switch." Until then, stick with Windows XP and a generic computer.
I would NOT recommend you build your own PC if you know nothing about them, or are unwilling to devote a lot of time to learning. You can damage your computer if you don't set voltages and memory timings correctly.
Better to stick with an off-the-shelf system.
I HIGHLY recommend HP's support. You can get an extended warranty from them where if something goes wrong they'll overnight you a box, someone will come and pick up that box the next day, and within a few days after that it'll show up on your doorstep fixed. They cover pretty much everything and opening it to add memory and stuff doesn't void the warranty (like with some other companies).
So pretty much what Flip said is correct. Get an AMD processor. Turion is pretty much made to be a laptop chip, but the Athlon 64 systems are pretty cheap now. I'd avoid the Sempron, as you get much less bang for your buck, and while it may serve you fine now, do you really want to have to upgrade again in a year when you've outgrown your PC?
Get as much RAM as you can afford, up to 2Gb. XP won't even run with less than 512mb (well, won't run to the point where you can *use* your computer) but 1Gb is pretty much essential now. If the system you're buying only comes with 512mb, just make sure there are at least two empty slots for adding more later. If you buy it in a store like FutureShop they'll likely even be able to add more memory for you right in the store.
DVD burners are cheaper than stand-alone CD burners, so you'll probably HAVE to be getting a DVD burner. They will also burn CDs, so you won't lose any functionality.
Hard drives are important, but you'll likely get a crappy one with your pre-built system. I wouldn't worry about this unless you're a power user. Any drive that ships with a PC today will be plenty fast enough for your needs.
Software-wise, I'd just go with an academic version of Office 2003 - it has Word (word processing), Excel (spreadsheets), and Publisher (desktop publishing) as well as a few other things, maybe, like Powerpoint (presentations) or Access (toy database application) depending on which variety you get.
No chip maker lists megahertz anymore, as they're trying to actually make slower chips (that also run cooler and use less energy) that do more work per clock tick. In other words, faster is not necessarily better.
For the AMD chips, the higher number is better. So basically if you see there's an "Athlon 64 3500+" and another with an "Athlon 64 4800+" the higher number is better. Those numbers represent the relative speed of the chips when compared to benchmarks of the old x86 megahertz scale. So the 4800+ is roughly equivalent to something that would be 4.8Ghz.
Yeah, it's fast.
I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2, which is the dual-core version of the chip, but I hope to make use of its dual-core capabilities in Photoshop and Illustrator, doing video editing, etc. If you can afford the dual-core, get it. You won't need to upgrade for years.
Otherwise nothing else really matters. Media Center is a nice add-on, but not a selling feature. How many USB ports it has in the front doesn't matter, as you probably won't use more than one of them anyway.
Pretty much any pre-built system will have built-in video out. So you can ignore this spec and add-on another video card later if you want to play games on it (if you do plan on maybe playing games, make sure your new computer has a PCI Express slot inside, then, rather than the older AGP).
The honest truth is that for web browsing, email, and publishing, pretty much any off-the-shelf system priced in the midrange will be fine.
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Until then, stick with Windows XP Ubuntu Linux and a generic computer.
Fixed dat fer ya
Also, I'm not entirely sure what you got against Mac hardware, I mean, with the transition to the Core architecture, they pretty much spank most other OEM computers out there. Yeah it's expensive as hell, but it brings the fast. Back in the pre-PowerPC days (and maybe even up to the G3 really) I could see that being a problem, but not so anymore I don't think.
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Fixed dat fer ya
UNIX geek that I am, I would be fully in support of this statement...except for
(Remember to speak slowly, as I am totally unschooled in the language of technology.)
I think side_show would be best served by Windows XP or OS X, the more user-friendly OSes, the ones with abundant technical support from people who don't know or care what minor kernel number they're running or what the asymptotic complexity of their scheduler algorithm is.
That said, it doesn't matter what you get, as long as the support is good - I used to pimp Dell to everyone who needed a cheap PC, but I'm engaged in a month-long war of attrition with their support department over a bad motherboard and neither side will step down, so I'm pretty cool on their support department for the moment. Jough is correct, HP has excellent support, but also, you'll need it. I guess if push comes to shove, go HP, because when it breaks, they'll fix it.
And no matter what any salesman tells you, there is no need for rustproofing on a new PC. Or undercoating.
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Flip, I would not recommend any flavour of Unix/Linux to someone who is not a developer. When a young lady says "I am now in the market to buy a new computer, but am so technically unaware that I have no clue about the standards I should be aiming for." you don't say "Oh, why don't you use something that confounds even experts?"
KDE just... isn't good.
Now, if she needed to run a web server, she'd have to go Linux. But in this case, she needs something that WORKS, and probably would like something where she can get software from other people, i.e. Windows XP.
OS X is a thing of beauty, but again, you'll NEED Windows, and dual-booting isn't exactly the easiest thing to do (yet) either.
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Flip, I would not recommend any flavour of Unix/Linux to someone who is not a developer. When a young lady says "I am now in the market to buy a new computer, but am so technically unaware that I have no clue about the standards I should be aiming for." you don't say "Oh, why don't you use something that confounds even experts?"
KDE just... isn't good.
Now, if she needed to run a web server, she'd have to go Linux. But in this case, she needs something that WORKS, and probably would like something where she can get software from other people, i.e. Windows XP.
OS X is a thing of beauty, but again, you'll NEED Windows, and dual-booting isn't exactly the easiest thing to do (yet) either.
Well I was being a bit facetious, but as an ubuntu user, I think that I can say without many doubts that there exist user friendly *nixes that are as easy to use as Windows or OSX. Also, I've heard with Boot Camp, dual booting on a mac is extremely easy, but I don't know first hand how well all that works.
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It's easy... for the experts. I was able to get Vista (pirate beta) on a friend's new MacBook. It ran okay.
I love how Macheads keep talking about how fast Windows XP runs on a Mac as compared to a several year old PC. Now, I know they mean that people looking to upgrade can just choose a Mac, but you know, let's compare Wndows XP running on a fast PC and XP running on a MacBook to be fair.
The truth is that Windows runs just as well on a Mac running an Intel chip as it does on any other PC of the same specs. The difference between an HP and a Mac with the Intel chips is almost academic now, as they share so many of the same components.
Also, HP/Compaq and Apple's laptops are made not only in the same factory in China, but on the same Compal line. They use the same motherboards, memory, and processors. I'm sure a lot of the other internal components are exactly the same now too, like HDs and optical media drives.
Boot Camp is a brilliant marketing decision to get people to "switch" without really switching. People like me who were held up by having a few killer apps that I cannot live without can now just switch and not really even have to leave Windows. I understand in the new OS X version that you'll be able to use some keystroke combination to fast-switch back to Windows to run something without rebooting. Sweet.
But the Mac hardware tends to not be as good (other than aesthetically) than what you can build yourself on the PC side (and the Macs ship with the slower Intel chips, not the faster AMD ones) and cost about twice as much. No thanks.
However... when I can install OS X (legally) on my current PC, I may consider making the "switch" to OS X for a lot of applications.
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Well from what I've heard Intel's Next-Gen Micro Architecture Conroe is going to spank the crap out of the highest end AMD systems. When macs transition to that (and i sell a few organs) you can bet I'm going to be worshipping at the altar of Jobs.
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Now, to further complicate the issue, I do have a good friend who wants to build me a system and promises that it will be a better value than any off the shelf PC, but he is only in town in the summer. He's "all don't buy off the shelf!" Also he worked for one of the two main stores here that build, sell and repair computers for many years, and hence has actual clout. I do worry that the moment he leaves town again for the academic year that I will be standing over a steaming box that was my system, wondering what went wrong with no way to do anything, though. But the way my bud sells it, this is the better option. What do you folks think?
Thank you Jough, for your well explained reply. And Flip, half of what you wrote was totally incomprehensible to me (to clarify how little I know about the subject), but thanks for trying. If I read everything here a couple more times, I wont sound like a total idiot to the teenager who will be selling me said computer. Is it wrong for me to mistrust making a major purchase from someone who has never touched a boobie?
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Is it wrong for me to mistrust making a major purchase from someone who has never touched a boobie?
Is it wrong for me to say, not if it's a computer?
My two cents:
1: I don't think you should have a guy build you a computer and then abandon you. You have no guarantee that anyone else will be willing or able to help if something goes wrong. If you buy a standard thing from the computer store they are obligated to help you if it doesn't work.
2: I'm sure your friend is all cute and enthusiastic, but for your needs, you don't need anyone to build you anything. Listen to Jough. You can buy a computer in a box that will do all that. Don't complicate the issue needlessly. See point 1.
This advice comes from someone who lives with someone who is inclined to put his computers together from spare parts, and then I get the handmedowns. Also, he writes his own software to do things that you could buy a dozen programs for. It's fine if he is here all the time to fix things. As soon as he leaves town for a weekend, the things know it, and start to flake out.
The thing about your friend? It is sad that he is too young to have lived when you had to put your own computer together in the garage. But you can't cure that for him.
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I've just bought two computers from Dell Outlet (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dfh&cs=22), where they sell their scratch & dent, returns and refurbished models and I've been very happy. Basically, I do word processing, surf the web and play 10 year old games. I've gotten twice the computer I need for about $400 each time.
Is it the optimal system? No, of course not. But it does what I need it to and more. It's a tool and it's more than sufficient for my needs. I also drive a 16 year old car with ~180K miles on it. Because it gets me there and carries what I want it to. It's not pretty but I don't care. I feel pretty much the same way about my computer.
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I would HIGHLY recommend AGAINST buying a Dell. They have decent support, but then, you'll need it. Their hardware is cheap crap. And often not just cheap crap, but cheap *proprietary* crap. If you want to upgrade a Dell, you'll have to do it through Dell.
Also, did I mention that most of their stuff is cheap plastic crap? Yeah.
Building a system is DEFINITELY not a cost-effective way to go. I spent more on my recent build than I would have buying a system outright from Best Buy. However...
I have a much better computer, full of more quality parts than anything that I could have bought at a store, since I was picking and choosing each component. Also, I got some deals so I really didn't end up paying more than I would have for a comparable system. But I took my time and bought stuff over six weeks or so, buying each component only after exhaustive research and bargain hunting.
I enjoyed the project, but I'm a geek. Also, I anticipate getting about three years out of this box, so it was worth the time and expense.
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Also, I anticipate getting about three years out of this box, so it was worth the time and expense.
Wow... huh... 3 years, eh? Did I forget to mention that I've had the computer I'm typing on right now for around 11 years, without any upgrades what so ever? And that I only had to have it serviced once, just this year. Yeah. At the time it was top of the line. So are computers just shitter now, or is it that the demands you put on them are more... demanding?
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Note that Jough specifies that he is a geek. A geek needs a new computer every three years the same way some people need a car every three years. It's not because the car stops getting them from point A to point B successfully.
Again, I speak as someone married to a geek. We have six computers in the house, not counting the broken one that's up on blocks on the front lawn.
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I am a closet geek and I attempt to not get into these discussions because it degenerates into fighting and weirdness that will not help non-geeks.
Let's look at it this way. What you are asking for is doable by a computer that was "the latest thing" about 5 years ago or so, so there's no reason to the break the bank unless you're suddenly determining you need to be doing some serious CAD work or becoming a high end PC gamer.
My suggestion: Fuck Dell. Have someone build one for you if you think they'll be willing enough to help you (I charge all the people I build for in support unless they're good friends or family), or get something relatively stable and of standard market works. Flip has some good points up there mostly.. you'll get more bang out of AMD. The real question is how much do you want to spend and how long do you want this machine to last?
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And often not just cheap crap, but cheap *proprietary* crap. If you want to upgrade a Dell, you'll have to do it through Dell.
Huh. I stuck a new hard drive in one of them, and a couple sticks of memory in the other. I do have a video card I could put in one, but I haven't tried yet. Are you saying I can't?
Also, re: HP. I've had two. The first one would only run Windows ME. Tried installing 2000, tried installing XP, neither would run. The second HP had two (count 'em, two) motherboards go bad in just over a year. They did service it reasonably quickly (10 days), but I wasn't happy with their reliability. I wasn't happy at all.
I'm not disputing El Guapo. He is my computer guru. I'm just relating my unsophisticated experience. I'm happy with my Dells.
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To be fair to HP, I'm posting this from my HP laptop, which I bought used about 5 years ago. It's hell of beat up now, but it's been all over with me and still does what I need it to. So that's a positive HP experience.
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I used to be like your friend. I would say "I'll build you one cheaper and better than one you can buy." And that part was true. I'd set the system up the way I wanted, and it would be perfect and clean and fast for games.
The problem is that the people I built it for didn't use it the way I would, and so there was frustration on both ends when they wanted to do something else. And there was special frustration when they installed something I wasn't familiar with and then wanted my help to fix it if it did something odd. Things got worse when distance was involved.
In short, your friend means well, and probably does not understand why this is a bad idea, but it is a very bad idea. When "some guy" builds your computer, "some guy" is your ONLY source of support.
As for buying a prepackaged PC, I am overcoming my reflexive dislike of HP that I developed some 10 years ago. As a matter of fact, my current "gaming" PC is a $650 HP system that I added parts to. It works quite well, and since HP uses standard parts it was no problem to upgrade. I used to like Dell a lot, but strangely they seem to have lost quality *and* value at once, and so I'm not so sure now.
From your description, you don't need a gaming system, but since you seem to be a long term user, there are some component choices I would make to "future-proof" it in case something breaks 5 years from now:
(Also note: you don't need to know what these things do, just what they are called.)
- 64-bit processor (this means an AMD, not Intel)
- Serial ATA (SATA) hard disk (not IDE)
- A PCI Express slot (Not AGP)
- 2 Open DIMM slots
Because you currently have an older computer and probably don't want to set up a network to transfer files, you probably still want a floppy drive for your new computer. This isn't included on most new ones by default.
How much do you want to spend? A basic, cheapest-of-everything computer can be had for around $600, but I would recommend something in the $1000-$1200 range.
Also, do you need a new monitor? I would recommend a 17" LCD if you do not have a LCD, or maybe a 19" if you want to get really fancy.
Do you have a digital camera, or anticipate wanting to use one in conjunction with your computer? A digital video camera?
Do you need a modem still, or do you have high-speed access pretty much everywhere you might use this computer?
What word processing software do you use? Would you want to get a new version of it, or maybe use something else? Is there any software that you need to use for file compatibility with work or something?
I can recommend a general configuration once I know what you use and what you want to spend.
(Edited lots 'cause I keep thinking of new questions)
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I would definitely get an LCD display. I wouldn't skimp on it, either. You can always upgrade later, of course. But you can get a decent 19" LCD for around $300 (USD). Keep in mind that pre-packaged systems almost never come with a monitor anymore. So your overall budget should leave some extra money for the display.
Yeah, I'm pretty hardcore in the use of my PC - I'm probably deluding myself thinking that this one will last me that long with no upgrades (well, I'll probably only have to upgrade the video card during the PC's life cycle, and that's just to keep up with newer games).
Of course, I hope to be fabulously wealthy within the next three years and will have plenty of money to get a new kick-ass PC.
The 2 empty DIMM slots as mentioned above are for RAM (main system memory).
We can help steer you towards a good system if you're deciding between a couple of them, etc. Just point us to a URL or post specs here, etc.
Again, I'd recommend highly against having a friend build the system for you unless that friend is also going to be able to offer 24/7 support.
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In short, your friend means well, and probably does not understand why this is a bad idea, but it is a very bad idea. When "some guy" builds your computer, "some guy" is your ONLY source of support.
What he said. And I said. And Jough said. Etc.
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Wow, thanks folks, that's a lot of foreign information that will be incredibly useful. I'm going to take some serious time to go shopping and see what's out there.
After the resounding argument against having someone else build it, I will definitely not go that route. Apart from my buddy, my SO has a gaggle of close friends in various areas of technical support and engineering that all have their two cents, so to avoid ending up with a Franken-puter, I will take the well advised, sane route and buy off the shelf.
Yes, I'm expecting to spend somewhere around $1000 total.
I am hoping for long term use - I'd like to get 5-10 years out of my computer, and since its main function is mostly just going to be tapping out scripts, I hope this isn't totally impossible. I've ridden my first computer out to near obsolete-ness, and that's what I'd like to do with this next one.
Also, I have no issues with the quality of my current, but very old, monitor, and kind of thought I'd just go for the system now, and wait for the old monitor to crap out. I can understand why an LCD monitor is all 'round kinder on the eyes and that in the long term that it is what is replacing the old style monitors, but is it really a necessity, right now? I mean I realize my current monitor is giving me eye cancer, but the cysts are manageable right now. Not spending $$ on the monitor now means a better quality system. Or would a monitor as old as mine not be compatible in some way with a new system? Why not get a kick ass system now, hold out with my old monitor so I can get a higher quality monitor in a couple years instead of pissing more money away on a mediocre quality one and a lower quality system now? (Please understand that my TV is from a time before TV's came with remotes - from the early 80's.)
I wouldn't be surprised if we end of with a digital camera, but it's not a purchase coming in the near future. I will definitely be purchasing an MP3 player, and also was given a nice little USB Drive that I will be using to carry my scripts around from now on (yeah, I've still been using floppy disks, and it's been terrifying - I basically email myself copies of every draft of what I write now to two different email addresses as back up. The number one factor pushing me toward getting a new system in the scary grinding noises my floppy drive makes when I save things to it.). I assume it's basically standard to have at least a couple USB ports in the front of the system now, right?
Also, no, neither of us use the computer for gaming, and I plan to keep it that way.
Also, yes, DSL or cable internet is the standard here - I can't even fathom going back to dial up at this point. Lister - does this mean I don't need a modem?
I use the standard stuff that came with my system: Windows - I started with... 95? Was there a Windows 95? But later upgraded to 98 and after my crash this year, upgraded to 2000, Internet Explorer, and Office 97. The only thing I'm really attached to is, naturally, MS Word - but other than that, if I'm changing systems, now would be the time to change... other things. I seem to remember it being suggested that I am a total plebeian for using Internet Explorer... but I don't want to turn this into a debate over software... I'm basically clueless in this regard, but don't know if opening this up for discussion is useful - I'm sure I'd be blindly happy to accept whatever's run-of-the-mill/the standard package that comes with the system I buy. I've actually never used Excel, Outlook or Power Point at home, and probably wouldn't want to... I'm sure I would deeply enjoy having Publisher, but I have never had it, and it is in no way a necessity.
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Or would a monitor as old as mine not be compatible in some way with a new system?
I can't imagine this being an issue. If the end that plugs into the computer looks like this (http://www.education.purdue.edu/edit/connectors/VGAmonitor.JPG) then it's fine. There are fancier digital connections available but I've yet to see a computer that doesn't have this standard video plug on it.
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I can't imagine this being an issue. If the end that plugs into the computer looks like this (http://www.education.purdue.edu/edit/connectors/VGAmonitor.JPG) then it's fine. There are fancier digital connections available but I've yet to see a computer that doesn't have this standard video plug on it.
Just to throw it out there, some higher-end graphics solutions have begun to drop VGA (that thing) connectors in favor of DVI or some such other thing. It shouldn't be a problem with the rig Side_Show is looking at however, as most commodity PC's still offer a VGA out.
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(that thing)
Tempting...
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Tempting...
ha HA... temptation!
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Tempting...
How about a Male End/Female End joke?
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Just to throw it out there, some higher-end graphics solutions have begun to drop VGA (that thing) connectors in favor of DVI or some such other thing. It shouldn't be a problem with the rig Side_Show is looking at however, as most commodity PC's still offer a VGA out.
I've seen cards that offer just VGA and cards with DVI and VGA but I've yet to encounter just DVI. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a higher-end card with just DVI.
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If it's still relevant, I think the x1900xt only has DVI...
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My x800 XL has only DVI, but one of the DVIs is DVI-D (or is that DVI-S?) or whatever that you can put a VGA adaptor on. In other words, it's VGA compatible, and usually the dual-DVI cards, even the high-end ones, will have one DVI that puts out a combination digital and analogue signal.
So it's no problem... for now.
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Both the (reasonably) high end cards I've bought recently came with DVI to VGA adapters (despite having both vga and dvi ports) so I doubt there'll be a problem there, but really Smells don't want to know about no x1900xtx.
S_S: Have you thought about a laptop? For the level of power you are looking for there are plenty of small quiet lappies around that aren't insanely expensive compared to their desktop brethren.
After browsing the Dell and HP sites it seems that Dell has better specs overall for desktops, I think for your purposes the low end model of this (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/cto_xpsdt_400?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs) could suit you well enough though the chipset is on the sluggish side. Here (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/product_detail.do?product_code=EP379UA%23ABA&tab=detailed_specs&storeName=computer_store&landing=computers&category=notebooks/compaq_presario/ready_to_ship&subcat1=rts&catLevel=4#defaultAnchor) is a reasonable laptop from HP, again RAM and chip speed are suboptimal (so is video but thats not really an issue with you).
As a disclaimer I picked these after only a few minutes browsing on the assumption that all you are doing is typing and surfing the net and maybe watch movies etc, since any current computer can perform these tasks adequately the main concern is that your system will be able to cope with the demands (read: needless bloatage) of future windows upgrades which you may or may not choose to install.
At the end of the day I'd say, as has already been said:
- At least 1 gig of RAM - this shit is non-negotiable if you plan on running any current or future version of windows. I sound like a dick saying this but since you said you know nothing about computers I'll take you at your word and remind you that 1 gigabyte of ram = 2 x 512 megabytes. Make sure it is coming with the whole gig already inside and room for more later, no point getting a rig that has four slots taken up by four 256meg sticks.
- At least something equating to a 2gig CPU(as above these numbers mean less and less and a dual core AMD or 64bit chipset is preferable but again I'm assuming you're just going to ride out the pre-installed software for the next 6 years so something in the 2s will probably be enough and save you a little bit of cash).
- Integrated video is your most hated foe. You want to see the words Invidia or ATI associated with your video card, even if you have no intention of gaming intel integrated video just isn't even an option. Also if you decide on the laptop route, beware shared video memory, this means it uses some of your system RAM this isn't necessarily a bad thing I guess but I personally avoid it.
Now that this rant has grown beyond what I intended I'll round it off with a final chiding: Your specs mean nothing if you don't exercise eternal vigilance! This means obvious stuff like a virus scanner (http://www.avast.com/) and so on but also it means adaware (http://www.lavasoft.de/) and other tools (http://www.ccleaner.com/). My brother threw down 3 large to build him a tasty rig just over a year ago, now 3k australian will not get you what 3k of your american dollars will but the machine was a tasty piece of ass if I do say so myself. After I assembled it it was sealed like an hermetic chamber and has suffered no hardware problems but due to his lack of vigilance he has filled the poor thing with such as crappy programs full of spyware and adware that the damn thing takes longer to log in than my mother's damn celeron 900 that we bought in 2000.
Just remember to take everything we say with a bit of salt, we are geeks so we probably over-estimate a bit what you need. If you honestly only see yourself typing and surfing and listening to music for the next 10 years then the only issue you face is compatibility with current versions of windows, and while the minimum specs for windows get sillier and sillier with each iteration I can't see it exceeding a gig of ram and a current 64 bit processor in the next five years. And if you're happy with your software you wouldn't be upgrading anyway so it doesn't matter worth a damn.
Harlan Ellison apparently still uses a typewriter and types with two fingers so I'd imagine you can get away with less than cutting edge components if you want, it's all about what you need.
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Wow, good advice abounds. I am glad.
Since I recall that you live in Canada, I went to HP Canada's site to look for computers for you. Unfortunately, HP Canada does not believe in custom PCs, and I didn't really see a model that fit.
I will walk you through a recommended system here (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?series_name=a1330e_series&catLevel=3&category=desktops/hp_pavilion/a1300_series&storeName=computer_store). Click on the red "Customize" button (not the "Recommended" button) and proceed from top to bottom:
For the Operating System: Windows XP Home is fine. I honestly don't know what value lies in Media Center Edition, and Professional doesn't do anything extra you need.
For the processor: The Athlon 64 3400+ is more power than your current computer can dream of, and should run anything (that is not a game) in the future. The $30 upgrade to the 3700+ is something you might consider for a little bit of extra speed, but it will add nothing in terms of capability. HP says that it is "great for editing digital photos," but so was a pentium II in 1999. The 3800+ is unnecessary for your purposes.
Memory: You want at least the 1 GB option. Note how it says 2x512 there - that means you will have 2 sticks of RAM, leaving 2 slots free for future expansion. I can never recommend against extra RAM, so if you want to splurge here go ahead, but know that RAM prices are constantly falling, and adding more is a simple task once the computer is home.
Hard Drive: Take the free upgrade from 40 to 80 GB. This will be more than enough space provided you do not store a lot of music or any video on your computer. Video gets big, quickly, and if you think you might want to get into editing video digitally (To make DVDs of videotaped performances, for example), I would definitely pay $40 more to double the size to 160GB. Luckily this is also an easy upgrade to make if your needs change, and prices for storage fall fast as well, so don't worry about being "locked in" to a smaller size.
HP Personal Media Drives: You say you have one of these, so don't bother here.
Primary CD/DVD Drive: Double Layer 16X DVD +/-R/RW drive. The capability to burn DVDs for archival purposes is important, and Double Layer means you can store more on a single disk. Although LightScribe disks look neat and possibly more "professional," you have to purchase special disks to use that feature, and they cost much more than normal ones. Splurge if you feel like it.
Secondary CD/DVD Drive: Unnecessary. I had a system with two drives for a while and all it meant was I had another place to lose CDs in.
Premium CD/DVD Burner Software: Although you need software to burn CDs and DVDs, you can buy it at this price or better from a store, and you'll have a choice of brands as well.
Front Productivity Ports: The standard option will fit what you have now, but a 9-in-1 memory card reader is convenient if you use a digital camera (or mp3 player with removable storage). Having one means you don't have to turn the camera on to get the photos off of it and onto your computer.
Removable Storage: Floppy drives are also convenient, but slow. You said you had other options for transporting data, so it's up to you if you think you would use one again.
Monitors: These prices are high. If you're okay with your monitor now, you don't need a new one. Prices are always dropping on them anyway. (If you DO want to get one, Dell (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/promo.aspx/fy07%2fq1wk10_snp_monitors?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd) is having a 20% off sale at the moment, and the 19" one is very nice...)
Speakers: You probably have a set already that do what you want them to do. If not, buy a set from Logitech, not these.
TV & Entertainment Experience: Watching TV on your computer is not rad.
Graphics Card: nVidia GeForce 6200se. Honestly I would prefer another option, as the SE suffix usually means a compromise, but it's either that or integrated video, which would be even worse. An alternate option would be to get the integrated video and spend $50 on a separate card (this would buy a very adequate card, but that's a whole other thread). Your friend could help you with this.
Sound Card: They give you an option of basic or incredibly advanced here. I would go with the integrated sound, then if you are unsatisfied (popping, crackling, etc) you can add a better card later for less than the Sound Blaster card they give you here. Sound Blaster is the brand I would go with, however, so this certainly wouldn't be a bad choice.
Keyboard and penis: I prefer an optical penis, but this is entirely up to your preference. The multimedia keyboard is not a feature in my mind -- mine has a bunch of extra buttons, but I never turned them on. Wireless means you have another thing to buy batteries for, and can be unreliable. I don't like it, but if you want it buy a separate set from Logitech or Microsoft and you'll be much happier.
Productivity Software: This is entirely up to you. You might be able to get educational pricing on software through your workplace, and if you can you should definitely do that. You will save lots of money. If you can not get educational pricing, this is the cheapest you can legally obtain Microsoft Office products, and $40 for Word 2002 isn't that bad.
Security Software: I personally don't run anything but an antivirus program, and I've seen the Internet Security suite do bad things to a computer. If you currently use Norton Internet Security and are happy with it, though, this is as good a place as any to get it.
Finance & Accounting Software: Totally up to you.
Premium Photography Software: You either have your own already or you don't need this.
Back-Up & Utilities Software: Another "store purchase."
HP Extended Service Plans: 1 year is free. You might consider the House Call Extended Service Plan (if it is available in your area), because you'd be paying at least that much for one service call from a tech. As for Accidental Damage Protection, I tend to think these are not worth the money, mostly because the rules to make a claim are usually so arcane it's quicker to buy the parts yourself. Sill, if you're accident prone...
Accessories: See how expensive LightScribe disks are?
The next page: If you need anything here, you already own it to run your current computer.
The next page: If you have a printer, it will work with this computer. If you need a printer, remember to buy a USB cable with it (but don't worry about gold plugs or "high quality" whatnot).
So. Even though you probably can't use this form to buy your computer, it's still a good thing to go through all of the components that make a computer and see what the options are and why you would choose one over the other. Hope this helped.
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For the Operating System: Windows XP Home is fine. I honestly don't know what value lies in Media Center Edition, and Professional doesn't do anything extra you need.
For anyone planning to use their network card (i.e. even going on the internet with a cable modem or DSL) I would recommend XP Pro, just because there is no security in XP Home. None. Your PC will be pretty much completely open to the outside world.
For $20 Windows XP Media Center Edition has all of the security and extra networking options of XP Pro, PLUS extra media playing stuff. Get it if it's only a $20 upgrade.
For the processor: The Athlon 64 3400+ is more power than your current computer can dream of, and should run anything (that is not a game) in the future. The $30 upgrade to the 3700+ is something you might consider for a little bit of extra speed, but it will add nothing in terms of capability. HP says that it is "great for editing digital photos," but so was a pentium II in 1999. The 3800+ is unnecessary for your purposes.
Well, you'll get slightly better performance with each of these upgrades, but look at the prices:
AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3400+ (2.2GHz / 512KB L2 cache)
Exceptional performance, power, and reliability
Included in price
AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3700+ (2.2GHz / 1MB L2 cache)
Great for editing digital photos
+$30.00
AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3800+ (2.4GHz / 512KB L2 cache)
Leading-edge performance with simultaneous 32- and 64-bit computing
+$100.00
Of course, all of these prices are USD.
But you can see in almost every upgrade category that there seems to be two options: one that is only a little tiny bit more than you're already paying, and then the much higher option. The middle options, the ones that add an extra $20-40 are what I call the "no-brainer" options. They aren't even a decision. Get all of the cheap upgrades you can if you're customizing a system.
There are some things you can easily upgrade later: memory, DVD burner, video card, and things you *can't* easily upgrade: CPU (processor), Hard Drive (unless you want to just add-on another drive, but keep in mind that these systems will usually only have room for one or two drives, and hard drive space tends to fill up over time, especially over ten years. Do you really want to spend half your day having to decide on which old files to delete because you're running out of hard drive space constantly? - although having said that, I like to add-on hard drive capacity for music and videos by using external USB drives, so there is ALWAYS room for expansion in the hard drive area - just keep in mind that you cannot install programs to these extra drives to run).
Memory: You want at least the 1 GB option. Note how it says 2x512 there - that means you will have 2 sticks of RAM, leaving 2 slots free for future expansion.
Having said that, it is stupid to put more than 2Gb in a 32-bit Windows XP system because Windows can't really use more than 2Gb anyway. BUT - if you're planning on upgrading your OS any time in the next ten years (and with Vista rolling out next year, you likely will have to upgrade to it at some point) you'll want to leave room for future expansion. So put the largest capacity chips you can in your RAM slots (or rather, have someone else put...).
Hard Drive: Take the free upgrade from 40 to 80 GB. This will be more than enough space provided you do not store a lot of music or any video on your computer. Video gets big, quickly, and if you think you might want to get into editing video digitally (To make DVDs of videotaped performances, for example), I would definitely pay $40 more to double the size to 160GB.
The "free" upgrade is of course obvious. There is no reason not to take anything they're giving you. The $40 more for twice the capacity is the "no brainer" upgrade. Take it. You take. Take take.
Luckily this is also an easy upgrade to make if your needs change
Well, it's not *that* easy. Putting in a new hard drive means that you have to re-install windows and all of your applications, settings, files, etc. It is not an easy upgrade path.
I found 80Gb on my laptop was fine for applications... in 2005. But if you want to use this thing in 5-10 years time it won't be enough. So if you get only 80Gb, keep in mind that you will likely HAVE to upgrade this at some point in the future.
Secondary CD/DVD Drive: Unnecessary. I had a system with two drives for a while and all it meant was I had another place to lose CDs in.
A second CD/DVD drive is great if you copy discs a lot. You can put the original in one drive and the copy in another and walk away - no more changing out discs.
However, the prices they're offering here are horrible for a second drive. You can easily have someone put in a newer drive later. And with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD coming out this year, in a few years these drives will all be replaced (in the marketplace) by discs with greater burning capacity, and you'll be able to add one of those for about the same price as a DVD burner now.
Premium CD/DVD Burner Software: Although you need software to burn CDs and DVDs, you can buy it at this price or better from a store, and you'll have a choice of brands as well.
Something else to note: don't buy any software with your PC. I mean, accept whatever they give you for free, even if you're not planning to use it, but don't pay them any extra. You can get stuff cheaper and with more options later at any PC or electronics store.
Front Productivity Ports: The standard option will fit what you have now, but a 9-in-1 memory card reader is convenient if you use a digital camera (or mp3 player with removable storage). Having one means you don't have to turn the camera on to get the photos off of it and onto your computer.
I wouldn't really worry about this one: but: $10. No-brainer. Get it.
Removable Storage: Floppy drives are also convenient, but slow. You said you had other options for transporting data, so it's up to you if you think you would use one again.
It's funny that floppies are more expensive than writeable DVDs now. And good luck finding another PC that uses them. You can save $20 here, or you can add one later for $5-10.
Monitors: These prices are high.
Yeah, you can shop around later and get a better monitor. You'll want to get one that has at least a 1280x1024 resolution, and is 17-19". If you're using a 10 year old monitor, it's probably running about 800x600, meaning that you're constantly scrolling to see things, right?
A good LCD will be worth it not only in terms of reducing eye strain and headaches, but also in terms of just having more on screen than you do now, while keeping everything a nice big size.
I tend to go for a moderate resolution on a big screen so that everything is slightly larger than average on it. This is because I am half blind, though. If you don't have that problem, then the sky's the limit in terms of resolution. The bigger the resolution, the more that you'll be able to see on screen at once. For a writer, let me tell you that it is valuable to be able to read things faster and see more of a script to edit.
Speakers: You probably have a set already that do what you want them to do. If not, buy a set from Logitech, not these.
Logitech is hardly a speaker manufacturer. I would recommend you either use what you have or get something cheap at the store later. Unless you're going to be listening to a lot of music on your PC, the speakers almost don't matter, as long as you have speakers of some kind. Even the cheap ones are decent enough to watch videos or listen to NPR or something.
TV & Entertainment Experience: Watching TV on your computer is not rad.
It's quite rad. I do it all the time. I have a window playing last night's 24 on right now next to this one (a nice advantage to a widescreen monitor).
However, there are upgrade options later. Again, since I was a laptop users for the past 5 years all of my peripherals are external. So I have a USB2 TV tuner device. It works great, and does the video encoding in the box so my CPU doesn't have to do the work when I want to record something. It's like a Tivo, only in my PC. And I can burn stuff that I record to DVD to watch on a regular television later, which is most certainly rad by anyone's definition.
Graphics Card: nVidia GeForce 6200se. Honestly I would prefer another option, as the SE suffix usually means a compromise, but it's either that or integrated video, which would be even worse. An alternate option would be to get the integrated video and spend $50 on a separate card (this would buy a very adequate card, but that's a whole other thread). Your friend could help you with this.
Yeah, definitely don't buy an extra video card from wherever you get your PC now. Get the integrated video, which will surf the internet and play movies just fine. You can add on a better card later if you find video performance lagging or stuttering. You likely won't.
Sound Card: They give you an option of basic or incredibly advanced here. I would go with the integrated sound, then if you are unsatisfied (popping, crackling, etc) you can add a better card later for less than the Sound Blaster card they give you here. Sound Blaster is the brand I would go with, however, so this certainly wouldn't be a bad choice.
Yeah, Creative SoundBlaster pretty much owns the sound card market, and has for years.
Having said that, my RealTek integrated audio is what I use, and it works great. It has surround sound that I'm not using, too.
Keyboard and penis: I prefer an optical penis, but this is entirely up to your preference. The multimedia keyboard is not a feature in my mind -- mine has a bunch of extra buttons, but I never turned them on. Wireless means you have another thing to buy batteries for, and can be unreliable. I don't like it, but if you want it buy a separate set from Logitech or Microsoft and you'll be much happier.
Okay, my preferences for keyboards is that they be as simple and as pleasurable to type on as possible. My current $6 keyboard is great, if a little clicky/noisy. But this is something you can upgrade later for very little money. Keyboards are about the cheapest thing you can buy.
Personally I hate those multimedia keyboards with all of the fancy buttons and controls, as I find they get in the way of typing sometimes (I really hate the ones that put extra buttons for media controls where other regular keys should be).
As far as mice go, I can't believe they're even offering ball mice anymore. They're horrible. You'll want to pick up a cheap ($10 or so) optical penis ASAP. Personally I got a Microsoft Wireless Optical penis - it gets 6 months of battery life on one pair of AA batteries and the freedom of the cordlessness is awesome. I love mine, but really the cord is not that big of a problem for most people.
I also hate extra buttons that I tend to accidentally click just when the click option can do something horrible (on no, I just deleted an important file! that was such a bad decision!), so I tend to go pretty basic with my penis as well as keyboard.
But an optical penis over a ball penis is so much better in pretty much every way.
Productivity Software: This is entirely up to you. You might be able to get educational pricing on software through your workplace, and if you can you should definitely do that. You will save lots of money. If you can not get educational pricing, this is the cheapest you can legally obtain Microsoft Office products, and $40 for Word 2002 isn't that bad.
There is no Word 2002, so I don't know what the hell they're selling there for $40. Probably Works 2002, which is not Word and which has an added K for "Suck." Maybe it's Word 2003. The previous version was Word 2000.
If you can't get educational pricing on Office, I think I have an extra copy that came with an old PC that I can give you. Or someone else can. It's ubiquitous.
Again, buying software with a new PC package is like getting floor mats and shinier hub caps from the dealership. They'll install them for you, but you'll pay through the nose for it.
HP Extended Service Plans: 1 year is free. You might consider the House Call Extended Service Plan (if it is available in your area), because you'd be paying at least that much for one service call from a tech. As for Accidental Damage Protection, I tend to think these are not worth the money, mostly because the rules to make a claim are usually so arcane it's quicker to buy the parts yourself. Sill, if you're accident prone...
You don't need accident protection unless you're buying a laptop. That is, unless you've ever knocked your desktop PC off of the desk. If so, get the accident protection. Otherwise, get as long of a warranty as they'll sell you. It looks like the 3-year extended is $5 more than the 2-year with accident protection, so again, it's a non-decision. You take. Take take.
The next page: If you have a printer, it will work with this computer. If you need a printer, remember to buy a USB cable with it (but don't worry about gold plugs or "high quality" whatnot).
Yeah, unless your printer is more than 4-years old and uses a parallel port, which this computer may or may not come with.
Of course, you can always buy a new printer later. Keep in mind that you can likely get a decent HP printer at the store for about what you'd pay for ink for your old one. The ink prices tend to go up on older printers, that is, until you can't even buy the cartridges anymore, which is what happened to my 6-year old printer before I bought the current one... two years ago this month.
Anyway, with my recommended options, this computer would cost you $759.98 USD, which today is $879.39 CAD. And you'll have actually a pretty kick-ass system that will last you for quite a few years, and be upgradeable for the things that you may need later. Or not. But you'll have the option.
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Holy Jesus, when is this book coming out?
~Paul
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Thank you for turning the purchase of a computer into a terrifying process.
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Thank you for turning the purchase of a computer into a terrifying process.
Don't worry, it'll be obsolete before you get it out of the box anyhow.
Since you are a writer, I wonder how much of your purchase you can deduct from your income taxes as a business expense. I'm just trying to help you justify the upgrades is all.
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I think this is the first ever non-diety/non-sports post I've ever just given up on and skipped. Granted it was basically directed entirely at another person who presumably found it helpful, but still.
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basically directly entirely
*Adverbs!*
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*Adverbs!*
You win this round. Actually when spelling, grammar, and/or my typing skills are involved let's just say I conceed the entire contest and challenge you to a game of Worms: Armageddon. Winner take all.
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You win this round. Actually when spelling, grammar, and/or my typing skills are involved let's just say I conceed the entire contest and challenge you to a game of Worms: Armageddon. Winner take all.
That is not at all fair. At least you're acquainted with the English language.
Also, you spelled "concede" incorrectly. I am sorry about this. I have a problem.
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Thank you for turning the purchase of a computer into a terrifying process.
You're welcome?
Er... I thought I was breaking it down simply - the unfortunate truth is that computers are made up of many different parts, and they all need a decision. But the basic components come down to this:
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 = speed, new tech, value. Don't spend a lot for minor speed gains.
RAM: As much as you can afford, leave open slots for later expansion.
Hard drive: Get as much as you can afford, but don't make it the most expensive component in the system.
Video card: If you do not get a separate card, make sure the computer has a free PCI-Express slot (not AGP) for a later upgrade. The entry-level price point for these is around $50 and they are well worth it.
Everything else is basically gravy.
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so.
I have a 5 year old dell laptop.
this computer is the hell.
at this point, I cannot defragment the main drive, because there is not enough free space.
I only have a few programs installed on the main drive. all of my music files are on an external drive. as are my pictures, videos, etc.
I do not know what is taking up all of this space on drive C. I should have multiple gigs free.
But anyway: yes. my computer is old, too.
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so.
I have a 5 year old dell laptop.
this computer is the hell.
at this point, I cannot defragment the main drive, because there is not enough free space.
I only have a few programs installed on the main drive. all of my music files are on an external drive. as are my pictures, videos, etc.
I do not know what is taking up all of this space on drive C. I should have multiple gigs free.
But anyway: yes. my computer is old, too.
run fdisk from the command line and see if the output has any mysterious partitions. That happened to my dad when he tried to install Windows ME (WHYYYY) on an old thinkpad. He didn't realize that it partitioned the drive exactly in half for some reason. This is kind of a long shot, but hey, give it a whirl.
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Thank you for turning the purchase of a computer into a terrifying process.
Seriously. I'm afraid to ever buy a computer again.
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yeah, I know that it has a partition.
the fun thing is, a guy who I now hate (see: guy who my ex-girlfriend cheated on me with, guy who I used to be in a band with, guy who my ex-girlfriend will probably now date, former best friend) borrowed my copy of PartitionMagic and never gave it back. because he is a rich fuck who doesn't take care of material things, it was lost somewhere in his bottomless pit of a house.
once, I experimented with linux. I have lost something like 10 gb to this monster. but I am too ashamed to face this "linux" and admit failure.
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once, I experimented with linux. I have lost something like 10 gb to this monster. but I am too ashamed to face this "linux" and admit failure.
We can help. (http://www.ubuntu.com) We understand you...
join us...
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I know.
I know.
it's just that at the time, I was a huge game-person.
Actually, just one game.
and it theoretically could work in NWN, but, in practice it did not. and my wireless network hated it, and shut off every few minutes.
i put in so much goddamn effort into it. trying to find the right drivers. having to edit files in Vi because I picked the wrong display driver. learning all the commands...
but in the end, it was too much of a pain to get it to do the things I wanted it to do.
when I get a new computer for college, I think this one can become my Linux box.
although, most of the problems I had with linux were, I believe, due to this computer being a laptop. or not. I can't really remember any of what happened with it.
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Wireless is usually pretty iffy, i've got my 3 year old Compaq POS's wireless working fine with ndiswrapper (http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/). I don't know if you've tried that or not, but something to consider.