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[side_show]

I am back from my wonderful trip, I made more money than expected, and my play got picked up for full production for the 07/08 theatre season (aka even more money).

I am now in the market to buy a new computer, but am so technically unaware that I have no clue about the standards I should be aiming for. 

My needs are fairly simple:  word processing is the major use of my computer now, and would be on a new computer also.  I would probably enjoy downloading music (and will refer to the MP3 player thread for further shopping), burning CD's (and maybe DVD's), and also, it would be alright, but not necessary, to have some decent desktop publishing options for making posters, programs and posters for my independently produced productions.

What should I be looking for?  What are the standards?  Is there anything that should I avoid at all costs? (Remember to speak slowly, as I am totally unschooled in the language of technology.)

[FlipConstantine]

Is there anything you should avoid at all costs?  Yes.  The Pentium 4 and Intel Integrated graphics.  These are 2 huge scams perpetrated on the market by the OEM's.  They're overpriced and underpowered.  You say that you aren't very technically minded, so I'm assuming that building your own machine is right out?  But if you can that's what I'd reccomend.  If you're looking for an ultimate budget box, look for something with an AMD Sempron or Turion processor.  If you're willing to drop a few extra bucks look for something with an AMD Athlon 64.  For no reason should you buy a PC with less than 512 MB of memory, 1 gig should be what you shoot for really.  If, however, you are willing to look into building your own, you can usually get a lot more bang for your buck because OEM's have a way of tricking people into thinking they are getting a fast PC by invoking the Megahertz myth and scrimping on other components like decent RAM and a fast drive and integrated graphics.  That's another thing, don't get taken in by clock speeds (MHz GHz etc..) they mean next to nothing.


Also, if money is no problem, buy a mac.  You'll thank yourself.

[jough]

Well, if you buy a Mac, make sure it's one with an Intel chip - you'll be able to run Windows too.

Anyway, I could not recommend crappy Mac hardware to anyone, regardless of how much money you have to spend.  The problem with the Mac platform is the hardware, not the software.  When I can license OS X to run on a beige box (or in my case, a black box) I'll probably make the "switch."  Until then, stick with Windows XP and a generic computer.

I would NOT recommend you build your own PC if you know nothing about them, or are unwilling to devote a lot of time to learning.  You can damage your computer if you don't set voltages and memory timings correctly.

Better to stick with an off-the-shelf system.

I HIGHLY recommend HP's support.  You can get an extended warranty from them where if something goes wrong they'll overnight you a box, someone will come and pick up that box the next day, and within a few days after that it'll show up on your doorstep fixed.  They cover pretty much everything and opening it to add memory and stuff doesn't void the warranty (like with some other companies).

So pretty much what Flip said is correct.  Get an AMD processor.  Turion is pretty much made to be a laptop chip, but the Athlon 64 systems are pretty cheap now.  I'd avoid the Sempron, as you get much less bang for your buck, and while it may serve you fine now, do you really want to have to upgrade again in a year when you've outgrown your PC?

Get as much RAM as you can afford, up to 2Gb.  XP won't even run with less than 512mb (well, won't run to the point where you can *use* your computer) but 1Gb is pretty much essential now.  If the system you're buying only comes with 512mb, just make sure there are at least two empty slots for adding more later.  If you buy it in a store like FutureShop they'll likely even be able to add more memory for you right in the store.

DVD burners are cheaper than stand-alone CD burners, so you'll probably HAVE to be getting a DVD burner.  They will also burn CDs, so you won't lose any functionality.

Hard drives are important, but you'll likely get a crappy one with your pre-built system.  I wouldn't worry about this unless you're a power user.  Any drive that ships with a PC today will be plenty fast enough for your needs.

Software-wise, I'd just go with an academic version of Office 2003 - it has Word (word processing), Excel (spreadsheets), and Publisher (desktop publishing) as well as a few other things, maybe, like Powerpoint (presentations) or Access (toy database application) depending on which variety you get.

No chip maker lists megahertz anymore, as they're trying to actually make slower chips (that also run cooler and use less energy) that do more work per clock tick.  In other words, faster is not necessarily better.

For the AMD chips, the higher number is better.  So basically if you see there's an "Athlon 64 3500+" and another with an "Athlon 64 4800+" the higher number is better.  Those numbers represent the relative speed of the chips when compared to benchmarks of the old x86 megahertz scale.  So the 4800+ is roughly equivalent to something that would be 4.8Ghz.

Yeah, it's fast.

I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2, which is the dual-core version of the chip, but I hope to make use of its dual-core capabilities in Photoshop and Illustrator, doing video editing, etc.  If you can afford the dual-core, get it.  You won't need to upgrade for years.

Otherwise nothing else really matters.  Media Center is a nice add-on, but not a selling feature.  How many USB ports it has in the front doesn't matter, as you probably won't use more than one of them anyway. 

Pretty much any pre-built system will have built-in video out.  So you can ignore this spec and add-on another video card later if you want to play games on it (if you do plan on maybe playing games, make sure your new computer has a PCI Express slot inside, then, rather than the older AGP).

The honest truth is that for web browsing, email, and publishing, pretty much any off-the-shelf system priced in the midrange will be fine.

[FlipConstantine]

Until then, stick with Windows XP Ubuntu Linux and a generic computer.

Fixed dat fer ya

Also, I'm not entirely sure what you got against Mac hardware, I mean, with the transition to the Core architecture, they pretty much spank most other OEM computers out there.  Yeah it's expensive as hell, but it brings the fast.  Back in the pre-PowerPC days (and maybe even up to the G3 really) I could see that being a problem, but not so anymore I don't think.

[acoxcae]

Fixed dat fer ya

UNIX geek that I am, I would be fully in support of this statement...except for

(Remember to speak slowly, as I am totally unschooled in the language of technology.)

I think side_show would be best served by Windows XP or OS X, the more user-friendly OSes, the ones with abundant technical support from people who don't know or care what minor kernel number they're running or what the asymptotic complexity of their scheduler algorithm is.

That said, it doesn't matter what you get, as long as the support is good - I used to pimp Dell to everyone who needed a cheap PC, but I'm engaged in a month-long war of attrition with their support department over a bad motherboard and neither side will step down, so I'm pretty cool on their support department for the moment.  Jough is correct, HP has excellent support, but also, you'll need it.  I guess if push comes to shove, go HP, because when it breaks, they'll fix it.

And no matter what any salesman tells you, there is no need for rustproofing on a new PC.  Or undercoating.

[jough]

Flip, I would not recommend any flavour of Unix/Linux to someone who is not a developer.  When a young lady says "I am now in the market to buy a new computer, but am so technically unaware that I have no clue about the standards I should be aiming for." you don't say "Oh, why don't you use something that confounds even experts?"

KDE just... isn't good.

Now, if she needed to run a web server, she'd have to go Linux.  But in this case, she needs something that WORKS, and probably would like something where she can get software from other people, i.e. Windows XP.

OS X is a thing of beauty, but again, you'll NEED Windows, and dual-booting isn't exactly the easiest thing to do (yet) either.

[FlipConstantine]

Flip, I would not recommend any flavour of Unix/Linux to someone who is not a developer.  When a young lady says "I am now in the market to buy a new computer, but am so technically unaware that I have no clue about the standards I should be aiming for." you don't say "Oh, why don't you use something that confounds even experts?"

KDE just... isn't good.

Now, if she needed to run a web server, she'd have to go Linux.  But in this case, she needs something that WORKS, and probably would like something where she can get software from other people, i.e. Windows XP.

OS X is a thing of beauty, but again, you'll NEED Windows, and dual-booting isn't exactly the easiest thing to do (yet) either.

Well I was being a bit facetious, but as an ubuntu user, I think that I can say without many doubts that there exist user friendly *nixes that are as easy to use as Windows or OSX.  Also, I've heard with Boot Camp, dual booting on a mac is extremely easy, but I don't know first hand how well all that works. 

[jough]

It's easy... for the experts.  I was able to get Vista (pirate beta) on a friend's new MacBook.  It ran okay.

I love how Macheads keep talking about how fast Windows XP runs on a Mac as compared to a several year old PC.  Now, I know they mean that people looking to upgrade can just choose a Mac, but you know, let's compare Wndows XP running on a fast PC and XP running on a MacBook to be fair.

The truth is that Windows runs just as well on a Mac running an Intel chip as it does on any other PC of the same specs.  The difference between an HP and a Mac with the Intel chips is almost academic now, as they share so many of the same components.

Also, HP/Compaq and Apple's laptops are made not only in the same factory in China, but on the same Compal line.  They use the same motherboards, memory, and processors.  I'm sure a lot of the other internal components are exactly the same now too, like HDs and optical media drives.

Boot Camp is a brilliant marketing decision to get people to "switch" without really switching.  People like me who were held up by having a few killer apps that I cannot live without can now just switch and not really even have to leave Windows.   I understand in the new OS X version that you'll be able to use some keystroke combination to fast-switch back to Windows to run something without rebooting.  Sweet.

But the Mac hardware tends to not be as good (other than aesthetically) than what you can build yourself on the PC side (and the Macs ship with the slower Intel chips, not the faster AMD ones) and cost about twice as much.  No thanks.

However... when I can install OS X (legally) on my current PC, I may consider making the "switch" to OS X for a lot of applications.

[FlipConstantine]

Well from what I've heard Intel's Next-Gen Micro Architecture Conroe is going to spank the crap out of the highest end AMD systems.  When macs transition to that (and i sell a few organs) you can bet I'm going to be worshipping at the altar of Jobs.

[side_show]

Now, to further complicate the issue, I do have a good friend who wants to build me a system and promises that it will be a better value than any off the shelf PC, but he is only in town in the summer.  He's "all don't buy off the shelf!"  Also he worked for one of the two main stores here that build, sell and  repair computers for many years, and hence has actual clout.  I do worry that the moment he leaves town again for the academic year that I will be standing over a steaming box that was my system, wondering what went wrong with no way to do anything, though.  But the way my bud sells it, this is the better option.  What do you folks think?

Thank you Jough, for your well explained reply.  And Flip, half of what you wrote was totally incomprehensible to me (to clarify how little I know about the subject), but thanks for trying.  If I read everything here a couple more times, I wont sound like a total idiot to the teenager who will be selling me said computer.  Is it wrong for me to mistrust making a major purchase from someone who has never touched a boobie?

[wombat]

Is it wrong for me to mistrust making a major purchase from someone who has never touched a boobie?

Is it wrong for me to say, not if it's a computer?

My two cents:

1: I don't think you should have a guy build you a computer and then abandon you.  You have no guarantee that anyone else will be willing or able to help if something goes wrong.  If you buy a standard thing from the computer store they are obligated to help you if it doesn't work.

2: I'm sure your friend is all cute and enthusiastic, but for your needs, you don't need anyone to build you anything. Listen to Jough. You can buy a computer in a box that will do all that.  Don't complicate the issue needlessly.  See point 1.

This advice comes from someone who lives with someone who is inclined to put his computers together from spare parts, and then I get the handmedowns.  Also, he writes his own software to do things that you could buy a dozen programs for. It's fine if he is here all the time to fix things.  As soon as he leaves town for a weekend, the things know it, and start to flake out.

The thing about your friend?  It is sad that he is too young to have lived when you had to put your own computer together in the garage.  But you can't cure that for him.

[AugustWest]

I've just bought two computers from Dell Outlet, where they sell their scratch & dent, returns and refurbished models and I've been very happy.  Basically, I do word processing, surf the web and play 10 year old games.  I've gotten twice the computer I need for about $400 each time.

Is it the optimal system?  No, of course not.  But it does what I need it to and more.  It's a tool and it's more than sufficient for my needs.  I also drive a 16 year old car with ~180K miles on it.  Because it gets me there and carries what I want it to.  It's not pretty but I don't care.  I feel pretty much the same way about my computer.

[jough]

I would HIGHLY recommend AGAINST buying a Dell.  They have decent support, but then, you'll need it.  Their hardware is cheap crap.  And often not just cheap crap, but cheap *proprietary* crap.  If you want to upgrade a Dell, you'll have to do it through Dell.

Also, did I mention that most of their stuff is cheap plastic crap?  Yeah.

Building a system is DEFINITELY not a cost-effective way to go.  I spent more on my recent build than I would have buying a system outright from Best Buy.  However...

I have a much better computer, full of more quality parts than anything that I could have bought at a store, since I was picking and choosing each component.  Also, I got some deals so I really didn't end up paying more than I would have for a comparable system.  But I took my time and bought stuff over six weeks or so, buying each component only after exhaustive research and bargain hunting.

I enjoyed the project, but I'm a geek.  Also, I anticipate getting about three years out of this box, so it was worth the time and expense.

[side_show]

Also, I anticipate getting about three years out of this box, so it was worth the time and expense.

Wow... huh... 3 years, eh?  Did I forget to mention that I've had the computer I'm typing on right now for around 11 years, without any upgrades what so ever?  And that I only had to have it serviced once, just this year.  Yeah.  At the time it was top of the line.  So are computers just shitter now, or is it that the demands you put on them are more... demanding? 

[wombat]

Note that Jough specifies that he is a geek.  A geek needs a new computer every three years the same way some people need a car every three years.  It's not because the car stops getting them from point A to point B successfully.

Again, I speak as someone married to a geek. We have six computers in the house, not counting the broken one that's up on blocks on the front lawn.