The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Sports & Leisure => Topic started by: Jeepers on April 21, 2006, 03:55:19 pm
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South Street Philadelphia
I'm still fairly new to the town, so I only recently got around to hitting South Street Souvlaki.
I ate a paste which consisted of at least one thousand cloves of garlic accompanied by the most awesome pita. I ate the Gyro (yee-ro according to them). The gyro was so hot that it burned my mouth to the ground, but I couldn't stop eating it because it was the best thing ever.
I've been to greece a few times and had the gyros there, but I was not a big fan of those. They were made with chicken most of the time, and I am not a big fan of chicken.
I know there's a couple Philly people in here. What's your favorite little hole in the wall place around town?
I apologize for the incoherent rambling tone of this. I am wired up and hyperactive this morning. I am going to do a pushup.
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I am going to do a pushup.
Just one push up and you'll be okay? Just one?
Anyway, I love me a good Gyro, or even better a really good falafel in pita. It is basically what I live off of when I am away from home. As for Philadelphia, I've heard you have some good cream cheese out that way. That is what I have heard.
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Yeah, you can't get good cream cheese outside of Philly, which is a shame, because you can't get a decent bagel outside of New York City.
Are you looking for hole-in-the-wall restaurants or bars? I used to frequent a place at 13th and Pine (walkable from South Street) called "Dirty Franks" but it went from being an uber-hip place with the most beautiful women ANYWHERE to being kind of a hangout for fratboys.
If you want to stay on or near South Street, there's a Thai place called "My Thai" which is excellent, and super-cheap. Avoid anything with "Brasserie" in the title. Also, swing by the Bourse building, stop in the lobby of the Ritz at the Bourse movie theatre, and take one of their playbills. Flip through it and note the advertisements in it for restaurants. Avoid these at all costs.
Almost all of them are owned by the same corporation, and they're all the result of what you'd get if IBM anally raped George Perrier and then took a shit on Bobby Flay's corpse.
Oh, if you like spending two month's salary on a single evening of hedonism, then you must check out Deux Chiminees (not sure I'm spelling it right) which is the best meal you can get in Philly, and the best-kept secret on the East Coast (it is almost always possible to get a table there even on short notice, as it is QUALITY but I guess not TRENDY).
I really hate Philly society. The whole town is second class, second rate. But really, it's the *people* which inspire my ire. They're too hip for even themselves.
I don't even really notice how hateful everyone is here until I go somewhere else and see how people can be nice to each other.
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The best cheesesteak I've ever eaten (and I have eaten many) came from this place right here (http://www.hollyeats.com/JohnsPork.htm). Not a part of town I would normally end up in, and it was across the street from some sort of unidentifiable factory--the kind that you'd find in a Steven Seagal movie for the climactic fight. DAMMIT that was good.
I would also advise spending some time, and money, in the Italian Market. Get some good fresh pasta, sausage, cannoli, etc. Bring a cooler.
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I don't think I've been to the Italian market, but I loooove the Reading Terminal Market. (unless they are one and the same and I just don't realize it)
I agree that Philly people are nasty for the most part. I'm originally from Kansas City, where talking to a stranger on the street corner doesn't trigger their fight-or-flight response.
You also won't hear phrases such as "youse fuckin guys" in the presence of children or grandmothers.
In philly, the children and grandmothers are just as likely to be the ones speaking such phrases.
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Yeah, I guess it depends on which part of Philly you visit. In South Philly, everyone talks like Rocky.
In Rittenhouse Square, everyone sounds like a Kennedy.
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I don't think I've been to the Italian market, but I loooove the Reading Terminal Market. (unless they are one and the same and I just don't realize it)
No sir. The Italian market is 9th street north and south of Washington Ave.
Criminy, they even have a web site. (http://www.phillyitalianmarket.com/)
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Anyway, I love me a good Gyro, or even better a really good falafel in pita.
Have we talked about Döners here? They are kind of like Gyros, but better. And I've yet to find a good one in the states. But I've only looked in like 3 cities.
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oh dang Jough, I found a recipe for bagels once that was amazing. By which I mean, "I never actually made it, but the article about it is good"
http://www.tastingmenu.com/recipes/favorites/bagels.htm (http://www.tastingmenu.com/recipes/favorites/bagels.htm)
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oh dang Jough, I found a recipe for bagels once that was amazing. By which I mean, "I never actually made it, but the article about it is good"
http://www.tastingmenu.com/recipes/favorites/bagels.htm (http://www.tastingmenu.com/recipes/favorites/bagels.htm)
Hey, awesome. I wanted to make some bagels yesterday, perhaps I will make those. The recipe I used to use never seemed jewish/ montreal-style enough. I think to get it fully accurate I'd need a wood burning stove, but whatever.
Edit: Helping to derail the topic even further -- in Poland, bagels were considered an appropriate gift for a pregnant woman.
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Have we talked about Döners here? They are kind of like Gyros, but better. And I've yet to find a good one in the states. But I've only looked in like 3 cities.
I've never found anything quite like doner kebab in the States either. When we went to Germany, we ate quite a few of them.
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I've never found anything quite like doner kebab in the States either. When we went to Germany, we ate quite a few of them.
Donairs and Gyros are totally interchangeable here in Winnipeg: Shaved spiced meat (usually a combo of goat and beef) from a rotating spit, diced onion and tomatoes, and tzatziki sauce, folded into a warm pita. Usually the Donaires are more bland. Why what is the actual difference?
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I ain't eating nothin' with Doner in the name.
~Paul
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The doner kebab, if I remember correctly, is only distantly related to the polynesian "boner kebab". Which, rather than being a foodstuff, is actually a rite all young men of the tribe must endure before being granted full manhood.
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The doner kebab, if I remember correctly, is only distantly related to the polynesian "boner kebab". Which, rather than being a foodstuff, is actually a rite all young men of the tribe must endure before being granted full manhood.
Ha, ha, ha! That is awesome. (tiny cans a'hoy!)
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I ain't eating nothin' with Doner in the name.
~Paul
Seriously, who wants to go to a Donner Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_party)? Don't eat the long pig if you do.
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Seriously, who wants to go to a Donner Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_party)? Don't eat the long pig if you do.
Hahahahahaha! That's the noise I made when I read this.
It's pretty cool learning about the American West in history. Did you guys ever learn substantial amounts of British or otherwise foreign history? Purely out of interest, of course.
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I scored a 5 out of 5 on the AP European History Exam. But I forget most of the real specific stuff. I think that for most Americans, you have to be interested in and seek out European history, they don't really 'make' you learn very much of it.
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Hahahahahaha! That's the noise I made when I read this.
It's pretty cool learning about the American West in history. Did you guys ever learn substantial amounts of British or otherwise foreign history? Purely out of interest, of course.
Nothing happened in Europe between the American Revolution and WWI. At least that's what I learned in public school. Oh, and between the Renaissance and 1492 was pretty slow too. Prior to the Black Plague I'm pretty sure western Europe hadn't even been discovered yet.
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Nothing happened in Europe between the American Revolution and WWI. At least that's what I learned in public school. Oh, and between the Renaissance and 1492 was pretty slow too. Prior to the Black Plague I'm pretty sure western Europe hadn't even been discovered yet.
Thank God you noble Americans pulled us out of the Dark Ages and into the modern world. Without you, we'd still be swinging swords, terrified of anyone not from our hideous continent. (Wait a minute....)
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Thank God you noble Americans pulled us out of the Dark Ages and into the modern world. Without you, we'd still be swinging swords, terrified of anyone not from our hideous continent. (Wait a minute....)
Don't worry, nothing has happened in America since D-Day. Actually in one of my US History classes we were still in the middle of WWII at the end of the year so the teacher basically said "there was the D-Day invasion, some stuff happened and we won." I've never been in a history class that even acknowledged that Korea or Vietnam exist.
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Interestingly enough, I had an entire semester-length high school course about Vietnam - but I think I must've been the minority.
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I scored a 5 out of 5 on the AP European History Exam. But I forget most of the real specific stuff. I think that for most Americans, you have to be interested in and seek out European history, they don't really 'make' you learn very much of it.
I got a 3. I will never forgive myself for this (it was during one of two years in which I slacked off in school). Luckily, my interest in the subject keeps me relatively informed.
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jeez.
all reciting AP scores. Hmm.
in terms of classes which I remember (ie: highschool), I've had two years of american stuff (US History, and US Government/Politics) and two years of World History (mostly Europe, with bones thrown to asia and africa).
the thing I remember the most was reading the chapter about China's revolution. Not so much because it was interesting, but because I remember looking at the key terms list, and saying "hmm... Chairman Mao, Boxer Rebellion, Gang of Four... Hey! Boxer Rebellion would be a really cool name for a punk band."
I realized this the other day, when I overheard a sophomore talking about the test they had on this.
Hobot, you got a three?
I'm sorry... it's over. We're through.
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Hobot, you got a three?
I'm sorry... it's over. We're through.
Who would have guessed that all that dirty talk was to cover up the fact that they only loved you for your test scores.
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Ha! I didn't even take any of the History APs! ... don't judge me.
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Hobot, you got a three?
I'm sorry... it's over. We're through.
NOOOOO!
But I got 4s and 5s on all my other APs! Take me back!
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How can I say no to that face!
You're back! We'll be together forever! You're the love of my life! We'll be shy in public together until we're old!
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I got two 5s, two 4s and a 3. Interestingly enough, I went on to major in the subject for which I got a 3.
I had no personal stake in the tests from an ego point of view, I just wanted to save time and money. Those scores saved me almost a years worth of credit hours.
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hm.
I got two fives last year (English Language and US History). My senior year classes are yet to be done (US Govt/Politics, English Literature).
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Am I the only really dumb person here? I mean, just curious is all... Not like it's not something I'm not used to, ha ha...
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hm.
I got two fives last year (English Language and US History). My senior year classes are yet to be done (US Govt/Politics, English Literature).
I think there are more tests now than back in my day. Of course, we wore onions on our belts as it was the fashion at the time.
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Fives: US History, English Language
Fours: US Government & Politics, English Literature*, French Language
Three: European History**
*I would have gotten a 5, but I was violently ill the night before the exam, and had to take the make-up. Ironically, on the original exam (the one that I missed), there was an essay question on William Blake, who is my favourite poet, and about whom I know a great deal. Instead of totally owning that topic, I was given some shit excuse for modern poetry that had arbitrary, weird structure and a short story about sled dog racing in Manitoba. Also, I took the make-up exam about two weeks after the original was given, so in the meantime, my brain was busy preparing for graduation and summer.
**While I'm at it, I might as well explain this one, too. In the middle of the year (10th grade), our teacher with twenty-odd years of experience in the subject went on sabbatical. The replacement they hired was an absolutely moronic woman who had never taught history. The reason they hired her to teach AP European History? She had taught AP French before; oh sure, if you can teach one AP class, you can teach any! In fact, let's swap the AP English and Physics teachers, that'll be great!
Okay, I'm finished, I promise. Whew.
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Am I the only really dumb person here? I mean, just curious is all... Not like it's not something I'm not used to, ha ha...
Mate, you have a love of Achewood and that makes you smarter than any scientist you can care to mention.
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Mate, you have a love of Achewood and that makes you smarter than any scientist you can care to mention.
That's nice of you to say, but words won't soothe the idiocy that rages within and threatens to expel itself every time I open my mouth.
(I'm only half kidding I say a lot of dumb shit.)
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Oh man, I don't even remember how I did on those AP tests. I think pretty well, but I don't remember the scores.
And some schmuck in my class got a 1590 on the SATs the same time I took mine (I only got 1470 or something like that) and I felt much hate for him. The guy was a total dumb-ass in life, he just tested well.
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Man, I hate history. I don't understand people's love affair with history for one second. Math, now that's a subject for heads on the real. AP Calc test, I got a 3. I don't think anyone got a 4 or 5, and you wouldn't even want to score that high 'cause if you did, someone would cut your throat and drink your blood, probably. Become them, probably.
History was always a sleepy-bye class. Math would be like, skip out on lunch to get high, then have hella fun learning all kinds of maths.
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I think history is cool, as long as it serves a purpose in illustrating how we got to where we are today. There are too many who study history for history's sake, and they're missing the point.
P.S. I used to like history more than I do now, but a couple of college history courses cured me of that.
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man.
halfway through this year, our Gov't teacher changed. From a woman who was giving all of us A's, and had taught the class for 10 years, graded AP exams for 4 years, etc.
we now have "The Essay Slayer". You can imagine, she is making everything harder than it has to be, and our grades have plummeted.
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Am I the only really dumb person here? I mean, just curious is all... Not like it's not something I'm not used to, ha ha...
No, you're not alone. I don't even know what this fuckin' test is they are all talking about.
~Paul
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Donairs and Gyros are totally interchangeable here in Winnipeg: Shaved spiced meat (usually a combo of goat and beef) from a rotating spit, diced onion and tomatoes, and tzatziki sauce, folded into a warm pita. Usually the Donaires are more bland. Why what is the actual difference?
I had them in Kiel, Germany and Copenhagen. They didn't use pita bread like the kind I get whyn I order gyros here, for one. Also, it wasn't just tzatziki sauce. The one guy I went to most often in Germany had a bunch of different types of sauce. I find the gyros here much more bland. Maybe I just need to try gyros in other parts of North America.
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So I looked up gyro and doner kebab and shawarma on Wikipedia and they all have the same picture of meat on a skewer being carved, labeled "gyro meat being carved off the rotisserie" or "doner kebab being carved off the rotisserie" or whatever. To me that settles the "are they the same thing" question.
So I am going to change the subject from good gyros to the worst gyro I have ever encountered, which was yesterday. What's the secret to making the worst gyro in human history? Ranch dressing. Lots of it. More ranch dressing than any two other components combined.
The recipe as far as I can tell: Fold a pita over taco-style. Fill it mostly with thick ranch dressing. Lay a couple strips of grilled questionable meat on top along with some lettuce and tomato.
Eugh eugh eugh.
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Holy crap, that sounds like the worst gyro possible, short of, I don't know, actual bodily emissions being involved. It makes me long for the homey authenticity of SaniTaco. Eeeeeurgh!
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It's the same meat, but Gyros are served with souvlaki sauce on a pita with lettuce, tomatoes, and onions, whereas doner is served on a stick with different veggies.
Same meat, different dishes, hence the different names. Like meatballs, meat loaf, and hamburgers are all different even though they are made from ground beef. Dig?
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Is souvlaki sauce the same as tzatziki sauce? I thought that was the traditional sauce on ye olde yeero jyro geero whatever you call it.
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Yeah, I couldn't think of the name of the sause. Tzatziki, that's it. It is made from cucumbers.
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And it's really good, and the thought of using RANCH DRESSING as a substitute really freaks me out. It sounds vile.
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And it's really good, and the thought of using RANCH DRESSING as a substitute really freaks me out. It sounds vile.
It wasn't just substituting for the tzatziki. It was the bulk of the object I was given. There was more ranch dressing by volume or mass than all non-pita ingredients combined, and possibly more than all ingredients combined including pita.
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I made Alton's gyro recipe last year. It was delicious, and reasonably simple.
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It's the same meat, but Gyros are served with souvlaki sauce on a pita with lettuce, tomatoes, and onions, whereas doner is served on a stick with different veggies.
Not where I've had them, but I do know that the German doner is considered to be sort of a bastardization of the Turkish dish. Where I've had them, they've been served with some kind of flat bread (seems to vary regionally), but not necessarily the same kind of pita bread I get at the Greek places in Salt Lake or Seattle. But I have had doner boxes (the meat with sauce, onions, and a bunch of fries) and doner plates.
Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%B6ner_kebab).
I bet one big difference is that the doner is Turkish and the gyro is Greek?
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I didn't have any German doner-kebaps, but the falafels were different than north american ones in that they were filled with cabbage. Both red and white, so you didn't even have to decide. That really made it German for me.
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It appears from the falafel game (http://www.falafelgame.com/eng/falafelhome.html) that I linked to a while ago that falafel in Israel has french fries right inside the sandwich. Despite the fact that you could argue that the Israelis would have a more authentic version of this dish, this doesn't sound like any better of an idea than cabbage.
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It appears from the falafel game (http://www.falafelgame.com/eng/falafelhome.html) that I linked to a while ago that falafel in Israel has french fries right inside the sandwich. Despite the fact that you could argue that the Israelis would have a more authentic version of this dish, this doesn't sound like any better of an idea than cabbage.
That's basically INSANE.
I actually rather liked the cabbage. It soaked up all the sauce (which I don't think was tahini, something more creamy) pretty well.
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A Utah Gyro (http://www.paulmcrae.com/images/Miscellany/Misc/DSCN12139-E-1024.jpg)
~Paul
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Aw, look at your smiling, sun-kissed face Paul. Clearly you were looking forward to your Gyro.
Also, seeing the fries makes me remember that, while fries are nice, indeed the traditional lemon potatoes that are oft served with such a dish are that much greater.
There is a place here that makes lemon potatoes that are so delicious that they almost melt in your mouth.
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Also, seeing the fries makes me remember that, while fries are nice, indeed the traditional lemon potatoes that are oft served with such a dish are that much greater.
I've only ever had a gyro with fries. I was actually surprised that Rice or Spaghetti were offered as alternates. Lemon potatoes weren't an option, sounds tasty though. My date got the chicken gyro because the "mystery meat" looked "yucky." I dumped her.
~Paul
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Paul has his priorities straight.
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Yeah, the unwillingness to try foods is something I tie to being intrisically flawed as a human being.
I have a single co-worker who I don't enjoy, and she is the one who complained about the salad I made with Wasabi peas at one potluck, and the goat cheese and leek spread (with toffee'd almonds) I brought to another party. Both complaints were loud and made as warnings repeatedly to other guest and were also made without actually trying either dish. She also complained that someone else's super mild-to-the-point-of-bland curry dish was "too spicy" at the same party.
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ugh.
I have such a problem with foods. I will things. But I never like them.
And the fact that I never like them makes me think that I should avoid trying things that people make, to avoid making faces and being rude.
I realize that this is such an immature thing. I am sorry. I try to like these things, but I cannot like them.
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I always have to ask people what's in their recipes for kashrut reasons and people take it as me being rude. I wish that weren't the case. I do not like you less as a person if I don't eat your bacon-shrimp-hawk-and-cheese terrine but people always seem to think I do.
That goat cheese-leek spread sounds pretty tasty, though.
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See, I'm not talking about people who choose not to eat this-or-that based on palate preferences or even ethical reasons. I won't eat olives, and certain other things - infact I'm on the borderline of picky myself. I'm talking people who go out of their way to let you know they find foods offered to them are yucky - especially in front of those who have gone to a great deal of effort to make them, and those who are there to eat them. People who make an issue out of being unwilling. See, if you politely ask me what's in something I made, then don't eat it, I am not at all insulted. I'm talking about the people who come to potlucks, and then loudly explain to everyone why everything but the safest, most North American non-threatening foods, are yucky. I've met many a person like this, and it's always disconcerting to me. To me that is so rude. It's okay if you don't like it, but why try to convince others to not like/try it? Why make a public issue of it? Like Paul's date specifically telling him the item he had ordered was yucky. To me that is rude.
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oh.
no.
I'm just the kid who goes down the line at a gathering of ethnic foods, and cannot bring himself to try anything. I am not vocal about it.
to be honest, I tried one thing at the aforementioned gathering of ethnic foods. it was some bizzare indian dessert. it looked like a little pastry.
I PICKED IT UP WITH MY HAND.
it was cold, and sticky. and wet. more accurately: soggy.
in fact, no. I didn't pick it up. I touched it, felt it, and recoiled in disgust. I then felt bad, so I had to eat it. I did not think this through, so I still picked it up with my hand. some kind of sticky sauce was running down my arm. it was actually delicious, but I had to go hide before eating it.
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I'm still thinking about that hypothetical (to me) goat cheese-leek spread. It sounds really tasty and I'm imagining it on, like, thin pumpernickel slices or something. I haven't eaten breakfast yet.
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Ben won't eat my ham and capybara parmigiana, even when I offer to leave off the chopped snake garnish. He hates me.
Inev: some food writer, whose name escapes me, claimed that you could get to like anything if you would just try it, I think he said thirteen times. I have experimented with this and it doesn't always work but sometimes familiarity makes a big difference. Keep trying!
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This is why I always eat before I go to parties. I'm so picky that there's basically never anything that I will eat.
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Unfortunately, I was that asshole not too long ago. A friend of mine organized a house barbecue and was talking about the chicken, sausage, etc. that she had gotten; my first question was "ooh, will there be hamburgers?" There were not, and I had to explain that my disappointed response was because I was really just in the mood for hamburgers, that's all, I'm sure the chicken will be great... gah. I did, in fact, feel like less of a person.
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theinevitable, are you talking about gulab jamun? (http://www.indiaforvisitors.com/food/desserts/gulabjamun.htm) If so, they are tasty, but are not the donut holes that they appear to be (that's what I miss took them for the first time I saw them. They are indeed mushy and are not a finger food).
Also, Ben-san it's totally easy and delicious: Get two of those little tubes of French goat cheese, a leek, a handful of fresh savory (coarsly chopped), a fist full of julienne almonds, butter and sugar. Toast the almonds slightly and set aside. Chop up the leak - remove any tough outer layers, and use only the white and the tenderest of the green part, fry it with the savory in a small amount of butter until it is nice an soft. Set aside to cool. Melt butter in a skillet, add an equal amount of sugar and cook over medium heat, stir constantly. Watch carefully - and remove from heat immediately when the mixture turns toffee coloured - immediately stir in almonds, then spread the entire mixture onto wax paper to cool. Take your cooled off leek/butter mixture and mix it with the goat cheese, add salt and pepper to taste. Cover and place in fridge over night to allow flavours to mingle. Top with almonds. You can serve it as is or heat it under a broiler for a hot spread. I serve mine with sliced baguette.
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yes!
now I remember that they looked like donut holes.
now I know that this is not what they are.
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GYRO UPDATE: I just ate a gyro from the pizza place down the street. It was greasy and delicious. My feathers have finally been unruffled from the ranch-dressing debacle.
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Ben won't eat my ham and capybara parmigiana, even when I offer to leave off the chopped snake garnish. He hates me.
Is capybara really unkosher? I had no idea. It's fine for Lent, at least in Venezuela. Because you know, it swims, therefore giraffe.
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Rodents are not kosher. I assume that Ben would be unimpressed by the church's opinion on the giraffeiness of capybaras.
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Rodents are not kosher. I assume that Ben would be unimpressed by the church's opinion on the giraffeiness of capybaras.
I'd imagine. I mean, I was impressed just not in a way that made me run out and get a capyburger.
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dude, it swims in the sea and has not fins or scales, and so it shall be unclean unto you.
do we need to go into this? (http://www.godhatesshrimp.com)
I am sorry if the place where I saw this link was on TOUAMB.
(link fixed - w)
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theinevitable's got it, yeah. Even assuming one takes the Catholic Church's word on whether it's a mammal or a giraffe (and there's a lot we Jews don't take the Mother Church's word for) it doesn't matter, because either it's a treyf mammal (lacking hooves and cud) or it's a treyf giraffe (lacking fins, scales, and gills). If it also ate carrion and flew it would be the least kosher of all possible creatures.
p.s. abusing parentheses is not cool, but I do it anyway.
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Oh, somebody Photoshop me a winged capybara, please?
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theinevitable's got it, yeah. Even assuming one takes the Catholic Church's word on whether it's a mammal or a giraffe (and there's a lot we Jews don't take the Mother Church's word for) it doesn't matter, because either it's a treyf mammal (lacking hooves and cud) or it's a treyf giraffe (lacking fins, scales, and gills). If it also ate carrion and flew it would be the least kosher of all possible creatures.
p.s. abusing parentheses is not cool, but I do it anyway.
Now I'm trying to figure out if it's easier to start with a vulture and have it swim, or strap a glider on the capybara and make it some pellets from the rendering plant. The 'least kosher of all possible creatures' seems like something that should exist, somewhere.
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Capybaras don't eat carrion, but they do eat their own poop (many rodents are coprophagous.) Does that help at all?
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I was gonna ask about the hawk reference - how about Bald Eagles? they don't eat carrion (unless it's just the whole meat-eating bird thing that is the problem).
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do we need to go into this? (http://www.godhatesshrimp.coml)
I prefer this (http://godhatesfigs.com).
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I was gonna ask about the hawk reference - how about Bald Eagles? they don't eat carrion (unless it's just the whole meat-eating bird thing that is the problem).
It's a combination, really - meat-eating birds are treyf, but so is anything that eats carrion. So carrion-eating birds are a double-decker.
Wombat, coprophagy is like gold in a value system that places high value on things that are not kosher. To reach platinum, it would have to eat carrion, poop it out, and then eat the poop.
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and what if the bird's mom drank some milk, and you killed it before the milk was digested, and you boiled the bird in it's mother's milk?
and the baby bird had eaten some carrion, defecated, and then eaten this?
And we killed them both by yelling at them until they died?
Would that be like, treyf to the max?
OH man, this reminds me: someone I know who lived on a farm confirmed the possibility. Her dog barked at their chicken coop, and one chicken died of a heart attack.
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I ain't eatin' no Poop Gyro.
~Paul