The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => History => Topic started by: nDed on September 04, 2006, 04:09:17 pm
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So yeah, the Crocodile Hunter is dead. Thoughts?
CNN Article (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/09/04/australia.irwin/index.html?section=cnn_topstories).
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It's sad that he is leaving a wife and two young children behind, but, considering his line of work, I suspect they were prepared for it to happen at any time. I must say, though, that being pierced by a stingray through the heart is just about the manliest way to go I can imagine.
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Damn. It just isn't right for a bloke to go out when the kids are so young. The thought of a loving father (crocodile incident aside) not being able to see his children grow up is the saddest thing.
Steve was a pretty regular fixture around the tea-time TV hour. Awesome dude. My kid brothers adored him, so they're a little shocked, even as young'uns go.
To be honest, I'm a little blue over this as well. It's just hard to imagine such a cheery dude appearing on your TV, brimming with energy, not being a part of this Earth anymore.
It's a cliche to say so, but at least he went out the way we (and probably he as well) expected him to. Mother Nature is a fickle bitch.
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Steve Irwin seemed to royally piss off my reptile-keeping colleagues. I will be interested to hear their reaction.
But yeah, sad for his family but surely no one expected him to die in his bed at a ripe old age?
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Creepy detail:
Irwin was in the area filming his own documentary, to be called The Ocean's Deadliest
-Wikipedia, Steve Irwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin)
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The Ocean's Deadliest
So he was trying to stick his thumb up said stingray's ass.
I am sad for his family and such, but always had problems with the ways he worked. It really wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't purely a random incident.
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according to CNN, he was "filming a feature for his daughter's show."
ways you do not want to find out steve irwin is dead:
"Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter, Is Dead. Due to stingray to the chest. Ladies, if you need condolences, Jack is Here."
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At least they'll be able to have an open-casket funeral. From what I can gather, the stingray incident did not involve dismemberment or anything and the body is pretty much intact, which is not the way I expected him to die given the nature of his work.
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For anyone who hasn't found out more about stingrays, they seem to be fairly docile chaps most of the time, but don't take kindly to strangers giving them the willies. It's understandable, perhaps expected, that Steve would end up provoking one into an attack (it's what he does), but even then most stingray attacks are pretty painful but not life threatening. In this case, the barb just happened to go through his heart. Brave but unlucky man.
People have always joked about Irwin surviving tussling with crocs and then getting killed by some lesser beast; well, irony generally tends to happen a lot easier than people expect.
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I was refusing to get up this morning, after a night of strange dreams and tossing and turning, and my SO was dry humping me in that special way that he knows annoys the hell out of me (a sure fire way to drive me from the bed) when the announcement that the Crocodile Hunter is dead from a getting stung in the heart by a stingray came over the radio, and I exclaimed "Crickey! I think this one's killed me!" For somereason this had both of us laughing pretty hard. It bought me a few more hours of sleeping in, but I'm still pretty sleepy.
What I am saying is that in the scheme of my life the Crocodile Hunter has been nothing but a punchline. What I am saying is that I am not always compassionate, and that sometimes dead pseudo-celebrities are good for a laugh.
Sorry to all you folks who are being all kind and sentimental about the guy. I am a cold-hearted harbinger of haggis sometimes.
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Honestly when I first heard this reported (before the stingray barb detail was known), I expected it to have been in a car accident or something similarly mundane.
In general, though, I guess I should file my thoughts under "slightly bummed but not surprised in the least." Also: "Now he can't endanger his son any more."
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It's understandable, perhaps expected, that Steve would end up provoking one into an attack (it's what he does), but even then most stingray attacks are pretty painful but not life threatening. In this case, the barb just happened to go through his heart. Brave but unlucky man.
I had a friend who went away to Syracuse on an exchange program because of the Lockerbie bombing (our high school and the university or some such). For one of the courses he did while there, a bunch of them went to Jamaica, groups doing various things. One of the guys he met there went on diving while there and got a stingray barb through the lower leg. It was very much non-fatal, as the toxin really isn't much, but the barbs will just go through anything. Dry/wet suits, bone, flesh... That is, an entire torso for instance.
Pretty painful might be an understatement.
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He is totally kicking it in heaven with the Grizzly Man right now.
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What I am saying is that I am not always compassionate, and that sometimes dead pseudo-celebrities are good for a laugh.
You're not the only one.
...Also: "Now he can't endanger his son any more."
Bingo!
"Steve, why are you handing me a dead chicken?"
"Don't call our son that luv."
"Steve!"
"Oh shi..."
Sorry, I've been supressing that one for years...
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He is totally kicking it in heaven with the Grizzly Man right now.
I've read that Treadwell imitated an Australian accent at one point.
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I just wish that such a fate befell every jackass who thinks it's funny to hurt animals. Sorry, Steve Irwin, but I can't get saddened over your death. Sorry about the children though.
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I just wish that such a fate befell every jackass who thinks it's funny to hurt animals.
My curiosity is piqued! Can you provide an example of said abuse? I have to admit I've never heard of him doing bad things to animals before, at least not laughing at them.
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My curiosity is piqued! Can you provide an example of said abuse? I have to admit I've never heard of him doing bad things to animals before, at least not laughing at them.
I remember getting really pissed (angry in the American sense of the word, not drunk as the limeys are wont to say) when I first saw Steve Irwin on television early on in his career. Grabbing animals and being macho just didn't seem like a good idea, and frankly I'm amazed that he made it this long. And feeding a croc with your 1-month old son in one arm just seems creepishly Jacko-esque. His Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin) goes on and on about how dedicated he was to animals and conservation, but whatever.
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His Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin) goes on and on about how dedicated he was to animals and conservation, but whatever.
His conservation efforts, by and large seemed to be saving an injured crocodile, and from what I saw, never involved taking the local population's feelings into consideration. He was far happier to tell people that it wasn't that dangerous, and then release it back to cripple a few more villagers. He always seemed somewhat selgiraffe.
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I never could stand the guy. I used to love nature shows when they showed nature more or less as it really exist. Somewhere along the line it was decided that this wasn't exciting enough and danger must be added to the mix. Now there is a whole new breed of so called nature shows that are basically jackass in the jungle and Steve Irwin was the most egregious and successful of these types of entertainers. Fuck him, i'm glad he's dead.
~Paul
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He founded and owned the Australia Zoo and did a ton of conservation work and brought people to greater awareness of the beauty and danger of lots of different animals.
Yes he was a cartoon of himself and sure he did some "out there" things but by and large I think Australia and the world lost a pretty strong voice for animals and animal education and conservation.
Odd to be killed by a stingray, though - only 17 deaths have been recorded worldwide attrbuted to stingrays,
I hope I die doing something I really love.
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I'm not glad he's dead, but I couldn't stand how he ruined nature television.
~Paul
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On the news tonight they said that he was the first Australian in 60 years to be killed by a stingray, that they aren't prone to attack unless provoked. I can just imagine him grabbing on to the stingray and manhandling it in the overly aggressive fasion that he always does on T.V.. My SO thinks Steve must have stuck his thumb up that stingray's anus or something.
Not that he deserved it or anything, but just... you know, he was a goofy weirdo, so it's hard not to think goofy weird thoughts about the guy.
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From the Australian Broadcasting Corp.
Irwin footage shocking, friend says
Steve Irwin's producer and close friend John Stainton has described his distress at viewing film of the iconic Crocodile Hunter's final moments before his death.
The acclaimed naturalist and television star was killed while filming a documentary in the waters off Port Douglas in far north Queensland yesterday.
The 44-year-old was swimming above a stingray when it lashed out, piercing his chest with the barb on its tail.
"It's shocking, it's a very hard thing to watch because you're actually witnessing somebody die," Mr Stainton said.
"Steve came over the top of the ray and then the tail came up and spiked him. He pulled it out and the next minute he's gone."
Irwin's family is on the Sunshine Coast in the south-east of the state and will not be travelling to far north Queensland.
Police say footage of Irwin's death shows he did not provoke the stingray that killed him.
Far North Superintendent Mike Keating says police have viewed footage of Irwin's death.
"There is no evidence that Mr Irwin was intimidating or threatening the stingray," he said.
"My advice is that he was observing the stingray."
Police say video footage of the moment Irwin was killed by the stingray is central to their investigation into his death.
"We'll be continuing to use that video in our investigation and we look forward to finalising the investigation very quickly," he said.
Police are preparing a report for the coroner.
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yeah, this is kind of how I always imagined it would happen while swimming as a child.
after showing hordes of children that animals aren't really that dangerous, he is attacked by a stingray while minding his own business. capital.
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Police say video footage of the moment Irwin was killed by the stingray is central to their investigation into his death.
"We'll be continuing to use that video in our investigation and we look forward to finalising the investigation very quickly," he said.
The stingray has been detained for questioning.
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I suspect that now stingray attack histeria will replace (or compliment) shark attack histeria. Death to all stingrays!!!
~Paul
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so, ok. several of you have commented on him essentially having it coming, due to his "hurting animals." What did I miss? I realize that being picked up by some huge guy with a bad accent is rather disturbing... but is this really that bad? However obnoxious he may have been, he was trying to teach kids/adults about animals. Worse things have been done in the name of science/education. I was originally going to link to some images, but they are all ugly, and I didn't want to be a dick about it. So imagine: a frog which is mid-dissection, some kind of animal which is having testing done on it, etc.
I was going to get the picture of the ape with the brain machine (ie: the one that displays the colors which represent his thoughts? or something?), but, it is gone.
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I just wish that such a fate befell every jackass who thinks it's funny to hurt animals. Sorry, Steve Irwin, but I can't get saddened over your death. Sorry about the children though.
Please accept my giftwrapped economy size fuck you for that sentiment. Accusations of hurting animals are baseless and silly. Yes, he was a buffoon, yes, he was very hands-on, but he understood the limits of what he could and could not do with the animals. For example, with an animal the size of a crocodile, jumping on it is not going to hurt it, yet crocodiles will suffer heart failure if they are too stressed out. As a recurring theme, he always attempted to get whatever animals he was moving into a dark chamber ASAP so that the animal wouldn't die. Yes, the showboating and jumping fed into this, but it was also a matter of expedience.
I find it difficult to believe that anyone who would get this emotional over dead (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OE2hy7OAlMk) or dying (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6u--7tyMwlM) animals could ever find it in himself to hurt one. While it's true that he spearheaded the move from dry, David-Attenborough style nature shows to more in-your-face "gonzo nature journalism", no one here said "I just wish that such a fate befell every jackass..." about Hunter S. Thompson.
Moreover, sometimes, just sometimes, someone is unpretentious enough that he or she can be seen for the truth: generally likeable, good person. Steve Irwin was one of those guys. I didn't know him, I didn't have anything to do with him, and honestly I didn't really think his show was all that interesting. But even a five minute clip of him talking would show that he was basically a well-meaning guy. It's the kind of thing that, were it polished, could be used for demagoguery to great success. Yet this guy was just a guy who was really interesting in saving animals no one else thought cute or cuddly enough to save. A kingdom was not what he wanted, just his own little zoo and spreading some awareness. Part of the reason why people mourn the death of what really is a D-List celebrity is not because of what he did -- have you seen "Collision Course"? -- but because of what he genuinely was: a likeable guy who did his best to make his world a better place.
Anyone who spites that or rationalizes an excuse to believe that is just some elitist, Death-Cab-For-Cutie loving hipster swine who thinks that just because the majority of people like and support something, it's obviously wrong. Well that's not true for some things: most people love air, most people -- except Rivers Cuomo, that slimy hipster dog -- love sex, and most people think that Steve Irwin was a good guy. Don't go all Weezer on us.
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I wasn't originally going to post a rebuttal to those who wished ill upon Steve Irwin, but Bobby has just done it a lot better than I could have (and probably with a bit more vitriol I wouldn't dare put in).
A gal at school was saying how much of a dick Irwin was for basically jumping on animals and stuff. When someone pointed out the unlikelihood of an average sized dude hurting a croc by merely diving on it, she got a little flustered and said that he could have hurt small animals by jumping on them. I don't think he has ever jumped on a small animal. I think he used enough force in order to not only make it interesting for the cameras, but also keep the animals safe. He definitely did not seem like one of those bastards who prioritise entertainment above an animal's health.
Like Bobby said, I think he would never intentionally be cruel to an animal, and I think he knew better than most of us what constitutes cruelty. Then again, it's a relative term. I still think he wouldn't hurt a fly.
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saving animals no one else thought cute or cuddly enough to save.
This seems worth emphasizing, although of course I am prejudiced. You could still wish he'd done it in a less sensationalistic way. But I guess one thing to remember is that you can't educate people unless you get their attention.
I'm still ambivalent about the guy, but Bobby's impassioned defense of giving a damn has softened my position.
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I don't have an opinion either way on Steve Irwin, but, hey, A+ on the rant Bobby.
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I never thought I'd be writing these words, but that was a well- thought-out and considered post, Bobby.
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I never thought I'd be writing these words, but that was a well- thought-out and considered post, Bobby.
Although it was missing key points of grammar due to my indignance. I mean, the dude was so obviously a mensch, and all the hipness in the world doesn't excuse faking blindness to that. I totally poured a can of foster's for that big pimpin' motherfucker.
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Yeah, I have to copy this: while I never expected to write the sentence "I am in complete accordance with Bobby's opinion and applaud his post," I am in complete accordance &c. Well-said. While I think it's fair to have complaints about Irwin's style, the good work he did with conservation is very clear, and I think it's rather silly to claim he "deserved" some kind of karmic retribution from the animal kingdom. (As mentioned upthread, he didn't even provoke the stingray that killed him; with anyone else, the world would have written it off as a freak diving accident, as it almost certainly was.) Whatever you think of gonzo nature journalism, the dude did a dangerous but valuable job (conservation of dangerous animals) and died while doing it.
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I was going to stay out of this one because I thought most of the 'I'm glad he's dead' sentiments weren't really serious and I didn't want to get all self-righteous but yeah, Bobby illustrated my thoughts nicely, as worrying a sign as that is.
I'd also point out that he (Steve Irwin, not Bobby) didn't just do conservation by taking animals to his zoo and such he poured quite a chunk of change into buying up Australian bushland, so while I always felt a bit embarrassed about how he made the rest of the world think Australians acted he did a lot of good and its a bummer he's gone.
Small bit of self-righteousness: A lot of comments I've seen (more on slashdot, fark etc. not here) are along the lines of 'if you mess with dangerous animals for so long something is going to happen to you' I just feel it's worth pointing out that the dude had been doing this stuff for near 20 years now so while he may have acted like an idiot it's not like he just happened to be lucky all that time, dude knew what he was doing.
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Small bit of self-righteousness: A lot of comments I've seen (more on slashdot, fark etc. not here) are along the lines of 'if you mess with dangerous animals for so long something is going to happen to you' I just feel it's worth pointing out that the dude had been doing this stuff for near 20 years now so while he may have acted like an idiot it's not like he just happened to be lucky all that time, dude knew what he was doing.
Thank you for noticing that. A person whose area of expertise is large land carnivores, specifically reptiles, specifically crocodilians, is going to be out of his element somewhat with rays. Animals, especially lesser vertebrates, are going to behave rather deterministically. People who say wild animals are unpredictable are doing the biological equivalent of what Arthur C. Clarke said about a sufficiently advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic. If you don't know the triggers that cause a crocodile to snap, or lunge, or do the death roll, then you're going to assume it's unpredictable. Reptilians, felines, canines, bears, birds, and even shrews all have their own triggers, that if understood can be dealt with as reliably as a machine, but if not understood, can be the bane of you.
This can be seen in private homes every day when you see a cat person dealing expertly with a cat, but a dog person not doing so well with it, because dog person is used to an animal that likes to be rushed head on, and cat person knows cats will instinctively respond to that as a threat.
It should be noted that, but for this freak accident, Steve Irwin was NEVER seriously injured by an animal. Not one in about two decades. I simply cannot accept this level of blase schadenfreude from idiotic armchair judges.
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Stooping to attacks ad hominem and calling people "idiotic armchair judges" for making opinion statements about Steve Irwin's oeuvre isn't doing the dead Aussie any favors, Bobby. Heaven help the imaginary people on the intarwub for saying something that offends you. Mea culpa.
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No, Bobby! Too far!
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I get what you're saying Bobby, and it's nice that you appreciate the guy for appearing to be genuine. I am just as enthusiastic of a geek as he was when it comes to certain things in my life. And this is probably why the few people who love me love me too.
True, I'm cynical about these things, and about life in general (depending on what day you get me on), but I don't think dismissing us cynics as "hipsters" (which is apparently an insult now?), is all that fair. I don't think it's all that idiotic to laugh at the death of a celebrty who has consistantly chosen to present himself as a cartoon - it seems like a pretty natural reaction. It was a natural reaction for me. I didn't think about it, then, like, chose to laugh. I was still in bed and being humped at the time, and I laughed.
Beyond my immediate reaction to laugh at the initial announcement, I've put careful thought into my own take on media manipulation over the years, and that I still find it funny, comes from a genuine place, from careful thought into what I value and discount in life - not something studied or crafted to suit some imaginary hip-quotent that I don't even consider when decided how I feel. What it boils down to is that I hate the cult of celebrity and the fact that every channel has been mourning this guys' death for days now, having constant updates, using it as the leader in every news break. Am I confused, or is there a war on? An AIDS crisis? A debate over issues like stem cell research, genetically modified food? Did all those real issues get solved on Saturday night and I just missed it? Canada had five soldiers die in Afghanistan on the day Irwin died, but guess who got the front page on both local papers? The ridiculous death of a person I did not know and who had no direct impact on my life (apart from spurring me to change the channel) is not important to me. It's laughable for me. It's a piffle spun into something way, way too large. I can't be convinced to care or be pulled into some media manufactured psychodrama.
When I die one day, if someone laughs at my stupid life (or even better, my stupid death), well that would be fantastic, but what is more likely to happen, what I would prefer to have happen is nothing. And all the better for it. I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who court celebrity. Creating an image, marketing yourself... that's the dark night of the soul to me. In my book, the choice to become a celebrity, to pursue fame, inevitably comes from a place of vanity. Me not trust pale face and face puller machine! Being in front of cameras, feeding directly into the image that sells - in take after take, shot after shot - is not something I place very low value to - humility and grace are traits I put so very much more weight on.
I'm certainly not accusing any of the pro-Steve camp of falling for manipulation, you're smart enough to know all this stuff I just ranted about, and still you like the guy, he made you laugh, maybe he even touched you as being the genuine article, he did stuff that you admire. I don't say you're wrong for your sweet hearted reasons. Or for taking simple pleasure in watching whatever T.V. show you care to watch. Me, I don't give a fuck. If Brad and Angelina and their United Nation of babies all crashed in the middle of the ocean, I'd feel just the same, which is basically nothing. And if how they died was funny in some way - say something involving drowning in UNICEF nickles on Halloween, then maybe I'd get a little chuckle out of that one too.
I guess there's a line you cross, a line where you either find the Darwin Awards funny or not. And there's also the line where you care about the life and times of the person on the cover of US this week or not. And for me, these lines have sort of tangled here. I have a lot of human compassion, and I think that shows in most of my posts, but when strangers die in silly, unexpected or ironic ways, I find it funny. I laugh. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of death or anything, but I don't really hold death all that sacrid either. I do find the confirmation that we are all stupid monkeys in the end, well, sort of a relief.
Or to sum it all up in a less rambling way: Bobby, is it okay if I make a joke if you're killed in a freak accident with a geometry set's isosceles triangle? Because I basically expect everyone to crack jokes if I am killed in some circus side show accident. It's basically required.
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Or to sum it all up in a less rambling way: Bobby, is it okay if I make a joke if you're killed in a freak accident with a geometry set's isosceles triangle?
No.
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I love that post, Side_Show! I'd give a standing ovation but the blank space of wall above my computer wouldn't appreciate it.
Though, considering Bobby's objections, it makes me wonder about the avatar...
...but I don't think dismissing us cynics as "hipsters" (which is apparently an insult now?)
The stereotypical New York hipster, or bohemian, wore a beret, dressed frequently in black, smoked mentholated Kool cigarettes, wore sunglasses even after sundown, and frequented jazz clubs and beat poetry coffeehouses and cafés in the Village.
-Wikipedia: Hipster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster)
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Heh. Yeah, that definition definitly makes "hipster" an insult. None of it describes me, though. I've never even been to New York. Plus, no one has ever called me hip or cool or any of those what-I-consider-to-be complimentary terms. I did wear a grey shirt yesterday. Does that count? Today I'm wearing hip-hugger jeans... I bought them with holes in them...maybe then...? No. No? Okay.
And Bobby, I promise if a horrible/ironic/odd fate befalls you, I will keep the wise cracks to myself.
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Bobby can obviously speak for himself, but I read his original rant as directed toward those who made serious criticisms of Steve Irwin rather than those who engaged in gallows humor.
I agree with both Bobby and Smells and I don't think it's at all inconsistent.
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Yeah, it wasn't all that clear to me if Bobby was talking about some media persons he'd seen, or if he was addressing me or Linnea or whoever. Then, thinking about it, that made me realize that I didn't make clear exactly where my oh-so-rough-chuckles were coming from or why, so I was posting more as a means of setting out my take of things clear than to initiate any sort of debate.
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To summarize:
Gallows humour == Good, semi-contructive way of dealing with the shock of our own mortality
'He was a tool who deserved to die' == such as a douche.
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Reporting back from the local crocodile community: My old boss said that what he hated about Steve Irwin was that he gave people the idea that this was how THEY should behave towards animals. He recalled hearing that the snakebite rate in Australia had gone up since Irwin's shows started airing because people thought it would be cool to walk up to a snake and grab it like they saw on TV. He admitted that he didn't remember the source of this claim and that it would be impossible to prove cause and effect.
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If someone died because they did something that they saw a professional do on television, I'd say that's a problem that takes care of itself. Darwin would be pleased.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and blame that one on tourists. I've lived in major cities (more or less) all my life but I (and I think most people who grow up here) know that if you see a snake you leave it the hell alone except maybe to hit it with a shovel. Depending on the snake of course.
I don't know how things have changed but when I was coming up through primary school they taught us abit about different spiders and snakes and that. Mind you there hasn't been a death from a red-back bite (one of the most common poisonous aussie spiders) in this country since before I was born, not sure about snakes.
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Does this mean no one will mourn the death of that clench-jawed asshat behind World's Wildest Police Videos? Or any sort of gonzo journalism that may inspire some half-wit teenager to emulate the antics? I'll tell you what, I have more respect for Irwin for teaching us the beauty of nature, rather than World's WIldest Police Videos for incessantly portraying police as a never-wrong paladin crusader, and thus instill fervent belief in a police state and make it seem somehow deviant to question our law enforcement and laws, as any good democracy truly requires.
So FUCK YOU, World's Wildest, FUCK the FUCK out of YOU.
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Why am I not suprised. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5338118.stm) ::)
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Why am I not suprised. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5338118.stm) ::)
I suspect that now stingray attack histeria will replace (or compliment) shark attack histeria. Death to all stingrays!!!
~Paul
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Holy shit, Paul. You called it. I'm most surprised at the fact that the dude had fans that rabid.
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I'll take 'assholes who missed the point' for 100 please larry.
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I'll take 'assholes who missed the point' for 100 please larry.
Was that directed at me? I realize that what I predicted isn't exactly what you reported, but it's in a similar vein. Who is Larry?
~Paul
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Woh, no no. I meant the people cutting tails of stingrays man, as in they missed Irwin's entire message.
There's a quote around somewhere of him saying that his biggest fear was that if he was killed by a croc it would be his own fault and he'd hate for people to get a big hate on and hysteria for crocs. I assume the same goes for stingrays, therefore people who are offing stingrays miss the point.
Larry is a fiictional name for a game show in which I have to pic a category and I chose to answer questions about people who miss the point, I'm thinking it's a jepardy style show and my first answer is 'People who cut up stingrays out of hysteria and spite' and I would reply 'Who are total assholes?' and then I would win.