The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: Muse_Of_Fire on February 19, 2007, 03:27:38 am
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So what do you all think of ballet? Thoughts? Experiences? Opinions?
I'm just curious.
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I'd like to get involved, but I don't think I have the legs for it.
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It certainly seems difficult as all hell and... I respect the hell out of its purveyors but...
I'm not much of a visual-arts kinda guy. Even plays and movies, I pay more attention to the dialogue and music.
A lot of people tell me that they think in images and I just don't. I think in text or sounds and have to concentrate a good deal to visualize things, so... I'm probably not the target audience for that particular art.
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I'd like to get involved, but I don't think I have the legs for it.
Do you have two?
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God, I love ballet. I adore(d) Rudolf Nureyev (may he rest in peace). He was amazing. He and Margot Fonteyn were unbelievable together.
I do not have a dancer's body. I have never tried to dance, but when I get back to civilization I think that I'm going to look into cultural arts events...the symphony, the opera, and ballet are three of my favorites. Pure artistry.
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Do you have two?
Mostly, but I have been told by the ladies (credible) that they are sub-par to ones used in the arts. A stark truth I must face alone.
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I am not a fan. I just don't get it. I am becoming more of a visual-arts person, but... it's not for me.
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I am a books and music person, as well. I like probably less than 5 movies, even.
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While I prefer books and movies, there are some ballets I have rather a soft spot for. Christopher Bruce has choreagraphed some wonderful stuff, as has Mark Morris.
I'm not much of a dancer though, though I spent much of my childhood doing period dance, trained with a group from... I think the West Indies a good few years back (they used that martial art that is like a dance... you know the one), and got a qualification in dance as well. But, I'm too gangly! I'm more a one for the acting, which it seems I might be getting back into.
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I've known lots of dancers, and ballerinas are the most mentally unhealthy of the lot as far as I'm concerned. Eating Kleenex and whatnot. I'm not much for ballet, I really only admire it for the athleticism and precision, but not the art. Give me good contemporary dance - that's what I dig.
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Only Spandau Ballet, sorry.
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Spandeau Ballet! Woo!
Your responses are quite interesting.
So now, the ubiquitous follow-up question:
Why do you have the opinion you do about ballet?
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Three words: Men in Leotards!
J/K, I have no strong opinion about ballet one way or the other. I like The Nutcracker, that's a ballet right?
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With my profession (theatre) I cross paths with a lot of other artists of many disciplines. Also actors like to date dancers. Also, some dancers dabble in acting and vice versa.
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I've been delaying my response on this topic because I needed to sort out my impressions. In the end, I think ballet is something I could like if I was better educated in it. I like (for lack of any sophisticated terminology) theatrical dance (e.g. Cats). The story being conveyed is easier to grasp than ballet however - between the singing and even spoken lines. So - basically I'm too lazy. My cultural enrichment time gets spent on theatre, musicals and the occasional symphony. Opera and ballet fall into the categories of "worthy, but life is short".
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Cats?
Huh.
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Yeah, like I said, I'm lazy when it comes to Culture. Plus, its the first production of its type I ever saw.
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My reason, as I say, I kind of grew up around dance, and theatre in general, and was subjected to a fair amount of opera as a youngster too, though didn't just grow to hate that either. I guess I went through a phase of denial, but during that phase I had gotten into acting.
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oh, I mean...
I just don't get cats. It seems to me like a bunch of guys in "Cat" costumes reading poetry. I was not being like "huh, his idea of Theater is cats, what a n00b." More like "maybe there is something you are getting that I am not, if you like Cats."
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I just don't get cats. It seems to me like a bunch of guys in "Cat" costumes reading poetry. I was not being like "huh, his idea of Theater is cats, what a n00b." More like "maybe there is something you are getting that I am not, if you like Cats."
See, as far as Cats goes, I just can't stand Lloyd-Webber. I really just don't like the music he writes, it's that simple. There has never been an exception to that rule for me.
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...More like "maybe there is something you are getting that I am not, if you like Cats."
It probably has to do with hot women in lycra. Hips all showin' and sheathed in sleek muscle.
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It probably has to do with hot women in lycra. Hips all showin' and sheathed in sleek muscle.
See, though, if that kinda girl were my thing, though... I'd just get a subscription to an upscale health club. Probably less expensive, probably a better chance of getting with a lithe lycra girl and... most importantly... much less crappy musical.
Then again, it shows how rarely I work out because... I can't remember what the term is for a chunk of time at a gymnasium is. A... subscription? That's all I got.
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At Cat's, you can pass off close observation as "admiring the make-up" or "trying to decide if she's a tabby or a tortiseshell". Ogling at the health club runs the risk of being escorted off the premises, or being regarded as "creepy".
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Ogling at the health club runs the risk of being escorted off the premises, or being regarded as "creepy".
Both of these downsides seem more palatable than having to attend a traditional Broadway musical.
Plus... I mean... if you're committed to the "look but can't touch" thing, you are on the internet. Right now. Right now, we are both on the internet. Pictures of sexy ladies in all manners of dress and undress abound.
There is probably some dude out there with a pornography site devoted to ladies stripping out of old-school 80s-style lycra-jogging suits, just waiting for you, with nary a melodramatically-sung love song sung by a gay man to a woman too thin/drugged-up than to have her menses in sight.
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It is a gym membership.
Also, I was lying earlier; I really don't like opera, dance, musicals or ballet. I am sure there are some good ones, just like movies, but I don't know, I have really no knowledge about it. I also don't really want to learn. Does this make me a bad person? I don't want to offend anyone, I just don't like it.
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I don't want to offend anyone, I just don't like it.
If we are on a messageboard where barbed c*ckes are a running gag, I doubt offense can be taken over disliking some particular performance form. Why would you feel the need to lie about things?
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I don't really know. I mean, it is rude to be like "I hate what you love" especially when it is on a message board and you don't have to respond, but I did respond, then felt bad about my response.
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I don't really know. I mean, it is rude to be like "I hate what you love" especially when it is on a message board and you don't have to respond, but I did respond, then felt bad about my response.
Well, you don't have to put it that way, though.
You can be all such as "ain't my thing, chicken wing, but I'm happy you dig on it."
This is what I say to my friends who are gay fellows.
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Heh.
That's why I asked for peoples' opinions, because I'm interested in them, even if they're different from mine. It just interests me to hear what people have to say on the subject. Not to worry.
Still waiting to hear on the "why's" from quite a few of you. :)
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We'll flip this on you, then.
I assume that this thread means that you are heavily into ballet, yes? That it is either your job or your main hobby/sideline? Why are you into it? What sort of ballet are you into? Do you wanna teach or choreograph or are you just a performer?
Basically, I know so little about ballet that I don't even know which questions to ask.
What do you do, why do you do it?
Which is more awesome, eggs or ballet?
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Can, lfm. Just 'cuz. ;)
Yes, that's why I asked. It is one of my jobs. I am a professional ballet dancer for a medium-sized regional company, and I also am on faculty for their professional school. I've done ballet since I was 4 and I've got quite a bit of training in other forms of dance too: tap, jazz, hip-hop, modern, African, etc... although ballet has always been my biggest area of training and interest. I do some choreography as well, but mostly for area school musicals, etc.
I do it because I can't not do it. I tried once, and it didn't last long. Kind of like my attempts to quit drinking coffee.
And as to which is more awesome: ballet. Hands down.
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I do it because I can't not do it. I tried once, and it didn't last long.
I feel the exact same way about writing.
Except... y'know... I can't seem to figure out how to get paid for it.
I feel like Tom Hanks at the end of Private Ryan and such.
"You get paid for the thing you love. Cherish it."
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Muse of Fire, the polite thing to do now is provide a link to a vid of you dancing. Kinda like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyT6gkJ9yF4).
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Also, I didn't mean I hate ballet a while ago, just being dramatic to try to make a point.
See, I do alot of things that alot of people who know me don't understand. These things are kind of why I get up in the morning alot of times. It kind of sucks when alot of people don't know why you tick, or whatever.
Yes, that's why I asked. It is one of my jobs. I am a professional ballet dancer for a medium-sized regional company, and I also am on faculty for their professional school. I've done ballet since I was 4 and I've got quite a bit of training in other forms of dance too: tap, jazz, hip-hop, modern, African, etc... although ballet has always been my biggest area of training and interest. I do some choreography as well, but mostly for area school musicals, etc.
See, I think this is awesome, but I probably wouldn't want to actually go. And I think that is probably rude to say. Also, you are super lucky, as LFM pointed out.
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Hella lucky! Dang.
I can't not write or write music, and I may be getting back into acting doing some Shakespeare again, but I'm not even close to getting paid for anything creative. Well, graphic design, but my hearts just not satisfied by it like performance or creation of art. For now I'll go back to my eggs...
That said, I should really finish off this letter as application to be a baker at the old fashioned flour mill nearby. I've been considering becoming Adam Real-last-name-unkown for a while now.
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I'm with cocaine-boy. Dance just doesn't do it for me. I mean, I can appreciate the physical strength and agility involved, but as an art form dance leaves me completely unmoved. It communicates no emotional content to me. Glad it works for you.
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Oh... sorry I said ballerinas are fucked up. It's a bad genearalization. All the ones I know are, but I totally recognize that there are ones out there that are sane. Hopefully you are one of them. But I like cartoon cats, so who am I to talk?
My buddy worked at the most intensive ballet school in my country, where parents send their kids away to live from age 7 and up to live and study professionally at the school, and I just totally disaprove of parents making career choices for their children when they're 7 or 8. From this buddy I have heard some of the most horrible stories of mental illness and eating disorder that I have ever, ever heard. Also, I have two ballerina friends and both have anorexia, which just scares the hell out of me and is really hard to understand.
Since I'm not much for the artform, even having seen some of the best ballet out there, I just think the level of sacrifice and focus required doesn't match with the end result.
Than again, people could say basically the same things about my profession to. It's all about what sparks your passion right? So a big ditto to what the others said. I am totally about following your passion.
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Oh... sorry I said ballerinas are fucked up. It's a bad genearalization. All the ones I know are, but I totally recognize that there are ones out there that are sane. Hopefully you are one of them. But I like cartoon cats, so who am I to talk?
Hey, you have benefit of doubt since we're discussing a profession where most of its practitioners are basically asking to fuck up their feet, legs and spines, if not with the eating disorders... That said, I've known some who don't, and again, hopefully you are one of them, Muse.
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I flipped on PBS and watched ballet this morning while feeding a baby just for you New Muse.
I've decided I don't like ballet because I lack the requisite historical, musical and dance literacy to translate it into story and movement that I find entertaining. I also I have no desire to build the vocabulary necessary to do so. It falls into the vast category of Things Beyond My Sphere of Interest.
I have tried and failed at this and so have made my peace with a life devoid of ballet, opera and Adam Sandler.
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I've decided I don't like ballet because I lack the requisite historical, musical and dance literacy to translate it into story and movement that I find entertaining.
Exactly. Exactly.
People tell me the new Battlestar Galactica is awesome, too, but I don't have the inclination to spend the days and days of intensive DVD watching that I would need to catch up. It probably is awesome but the time wherein I could've learned all the things I need to appreciate it is past.
My girlfriend feels the same way about baseball. My brother feels the same way about superhero comics.
Can'd for exacting insight.
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I love ballet. It is amazing to watch. Sheer artistry. There are so many facets of the art - costume, choreography, set, storyline, style, presentation...I really need to find some of the great works on Netflix or else figure out when it airs on PBS.
Plus, I don't have the necessary background in literature or history...which is why it's fascinating to read a little bit on Wikipedia or wherever about a ballet or any other production before watching it. It's an enjoyable way to revisit periods of history that I otherwise never would think about!
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Muse of Fire, the polite thing to do now is provide a link to a vid of you dancing. Kinda like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyT6gkJ9yF4).
How did you so quickly and easily find a video of me dancing?! I am amazed!
...and clearly joking. ;)
I have no videos, but I do have a couple of photographs... let's see... ah. Here we go: I danced Spanish in our Nutcracker this year (http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h301/Muse_of_Fire/Nutcracker%202006/IMGP1291_xs.jpg), and here I am backstage after warmup and applying makeup; about to put on my cossie. (http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h301/Muse_of_Fire/Nutcracker%202006/IMGP1289_xs.jpg) Notice the fine and appropriate shirt. Try not to let the frightening amounts of eyeliner scare you.
Enjoy. :)
And not to worry about referring to ballerinas as f*cked up. They generally are. Some of my associates would lump me in that category, although the jury is still out.
Also, not to worry about feeling "rude" for not digging it (and saying so), Keith. I'm made of stronger stuff than that. ;)
I do consider myself lucky to be able to do it, although our company is small enough that I do have to have a full-time "normal person job" to pay the bills. Still, I took a very non-traditional route to get there (considering the normal career track for dancers), passing through all sorts of personal f'ed-uppednes, so I consider myself insanely lucky indeed to be able to do it. In any other city or any other company, I wouldn't be able to do it at all.
Oh, just so you all don't think I normally run around with my face painted to scare the lovin right out of a man, here's what I look like normally (well, after France beat Brazil in the World Cup semis, and I'd had a few Stellas, anyhow): Allez, les Bleus! (http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h301/Muse_of_Fire/Blue2.jpg)
Linnea, how often do you get to see the ballet? I'm glad you enjoy it. :)
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Try not to let the frightening amounts of eyeliner scare you.
Only just a little bit. But you will be happy to know that sans make-up, the scary completely dissipates.
The power of a message board icon is, however, that I could not help but subconsciously expect you to look like a girl-version of your message board icon. Even though I knew that was nowhere near the truth, there was still the reflexive expectation.
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Thank you, Mets! :)
As to the whole message board icon thing, I totally know what you mean. To be quite honest, my icon surprises me every time I look at it. I think, "What? That's not me! Who the heck is that guy?" And then I remember that I chose "Ketel One DJ_Brazil" to represent me here, good man that he is.
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I was forced into ballet lessons as a kid.
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Linnea, how often do you get to see the ballet? I'm glad you enjoy it. :)
I grew up in Denver, so I got to see performances at the Denver Center for the Performing Arts a couple of times. Now I live in rural Alaska, so I haven't seen a ballet in at least ten years.
When I go back to Colorado for my dad's wedding this summer I plan to hit the Denver Art Museum and I should check to see what is in store at the DCPA.
Muse, what's your favorite ballet? Also, what has been your favorite role in ballet so far?
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Ah...I really enjoy Colorado Ballet's Nutcracker. I think of all the Nutcrackers I've seen (and I've seen a lot of different companies' versions), theirs is my favorite. As far as a favorite ballet of all time, that's tough to say. Lee Wei-Chao's "Beyond Invisible" rearranged my molecular structure the first time I saw it. Utterly sublime. Ailey's "Revelations" gives me chills. Jean-Paul Comelin's "Requiem" (set to Mozart's Requiem) made me see God (but that could also be because I find choral music from that period to be transcendental).
Alonzo King's Lines Ballet and the Joffrey have done too many works that I've enjoyed for me to mention; their names have long since left me and I'm simply left with fleeting images and impressionistic feelings. In my view that's how it should be; like wine or a good meal--savored, transportative, sublime, ephemeral. That's the magic of live performing arts, really.
Going back in time a bit, I'd have to say Balanchine's "Apollo" was the first time I really saw what ballet could be, "beyond the tutu" as it were. I was pretty young at the time and remember being blown away by the sheer revolutionary aplomb of it. Even though it was pretty "establishment" by the time I saw it, it was brand new to me, and way beyond the 19th-century foundation I'd been cemented in up until that point. Balanchine's "Jewels" holds a special place like that for me too, for the same reason. I saw both again many years later, and they seemed boxed-in and dated; but of course by then I was a jaded adult who'd seen ballet push beyond itself into the now. This was well after the aforementioned molecularly-transformative "Beyond Invisible".
Of course, we owe a lot to that 19th-century stuff, and as cliche as it sounds, Swan Lake and Sleeping Beauty are delicious pleasures for me every time; even though I can't watch them without my muscle memory tripping, and I end up tensing and shifting unconsciously in my seat as the music cues my muscle memory. They're wholly predictable, but they're called classics for a reason.
I also love a sexy, contemporary piece (which shall remain nameless for reasons of confidentiality) that my company did two years ago. We commissioned a local composer and set the piece for a special performing arts gala in our city. I love watching this ballet and it was one of my most favorite roles to perform. Other favorite roles to perform are: Diamond Fairy in "Sleeping Beauty," Fanny Cerrito in "Pas de Quatre," and Spanish in Nutcracker.
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I have no videos, but I do have a couple of photographs... let's see... ah. Here we go: I danced Spanish in our Nutcracker this year (http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h301/Muse_of_Fire/Nutcracker%202006/IMGP1291_xs.jpg), and here I am backstage after warmup and applying makeup; about to put on my cossie. (http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h301/Muse_of_Fire/Nutcracker%202006/IMGP1289_xs.jpg) Notice the fine and appropriate shirt. Try not to let the frightening amounts of eyeliner scare you.
Oh, just so you all don't think I normally run around with my face painted to scare the lovin right out of a man, here's what I look like normally (well, after France beat Brazil in the World Cup semis, and I'd had a few Stellas, anyhow): Allez, les Bleus! (http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h301/Muse_of_Fire/Blue2.jpg)
I don't know how we've managed it, but TOUAMB has attracted another beautiful woman. We're batting 1.000 around here. I hesitate to take credit for it as a message board, so I guess we should give the credit to Onstad for appealing to female readers who are smart, sexy and funny. Just one more thing that he's better than me at.
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Oh yea, we forgot that one. Ballerinas may be fucked up, have fucked up arches, but they can be hella glamorous and beautiful.
(And now I remember the name of the ballerina who was an answer to a quiz question the other day... D'oh).