The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: RMJ12345 on March 17, 2007, 05:04:39 pm
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Okay, Stephen King. I'd read "It" and the "Shining" and a couple of his McSweeney's short stories, and I liked them fine - really like the short stories.
I just now finished "The Stand" (1980 version) and I LOVED IT. Crazy loved it, can't stop talking about it. Probably my #3 book all-time. Obsessed.
I plan to read the "unabridged" version, but I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for after that?
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After The Stand you are pretty much done. It is all downhill.
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I do not have so much love for Mr. King, but I did like "The Body."
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Oooh, the Stand is awesome. I think there's a character in there with my name, Rosalyn? I can't remember. Anyway, kellichou was the one who persuaded me to read it, and I loved it.
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I'm not huge on King but Dolores Clairborne is a good one if you like his fucked up characters rather than his supernatural stuff.
Similarly Misery is pretty good too (Book is definitely better than the movie and I think the movie is pretty sweet).
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Give The Dead Zone a spin, just don't let the early '70's vibe bother you too much. Also, for a novella twist, Different Seasons is a nice little run if all the movies haven't smoked it out for you. even then I'd say it's worthwhile.
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I am a slow reader, so I could read It, then the Stand, and enough time would have elapsed after that that I could read It again.
I would recommend the first few dark tower books, see if you're into that. Also, Needful Things. And the Talisman. And Desperation (and perhaps even the Regulators then?)!
I don't really understand why people call him the master of terror or something. What appeals to me most about him are his characters and strange ideas. They apparently appeal to me enough to disregard the really ridiculous ones, and the fact that he hasn't ended a book well ever.
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the fact that he hasn't ended a book well ever.
Oh sweet suffering zombie Jesus yes.
Actually, I would not put it past him to make the villain end up being sweet suffering zombie Jesus.
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Yes, we talked about this, (http://touamb.com/index.php/topic,1355.msg26909.html#msg26909) repeatedly. (http://touamb.com/index.php/topic,1355.msg26923.html#msg26923) Or at least I did.
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Yes, we talked about this. (http://touamb.com/index.php/topic,1355.msg26909.html#msg26909)
The funniest thing is that's like one of his best works. "Hey Steve, nice work. Um, you kind of stepped on your dick right there at the end, with it all being a dream, or a giant space spider, or whatever."
I kind of liked The Regulators, and the sister book to it (the name escapes me at the moment and I can't be arsed to look it up).
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Maybe that's why his works are so long. He just doesn't know when to stop.
I actually liked the end of The Stand, and I thought the end of his short stories were pretty good.
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Yes, we talked about this, (http://touamb.com/index.php/topic,1355.msg26909.html#msg26909) repeatedly. (http://touamb.com/index.php/topic,1355.msg26923.html#msg26923) Or at least I did.
Well, at least you're taking it well and not holding a grudge.
You want to read an author who can't finish a book, try that other guy - Dean (shudder) Koontz. The Thomas Kincaide of writing. He's just terrible.
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I kind of liked The Regulators, and the sister book to it (the name escapes me at the moment and I can't be arsed to look it up).
REGULATORS! Mouuuuuuuuuunt up.
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Oh, God, Koontz is terrible. Don't even get me started on Koontz. Whatever people say about King, let it be known that he never had the sheer unmitigated lack of talent it takes to name characters "Enoch Cain Jr." and "Thomas Vanadium," let alone put those characters in the same goddamn book.
Anyway, I recommend King's short-story collections highly, especially if you like his weird ideas. They have the benefit of being pretty short, so in a collection, at least a few stories will hit and hit hard. I also really liked Black House, the sequel to The Talisman, although I haven't read Talisman itself yet...
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Koontz has these two books about an albino, I think they are Seize the Night and Fear Nothing. A guy I work with convinced me to read them up here, when I was still working out in the field (entertainment is slim out in the field). I shot you not, there was an average of three similes per page in those books. It was like he was deliberately making fun of his readers and writing in general. Like he was just saying "what if I don't actually describe anything in either of these books - will people still buy and read them?" What a bag of shit.
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Oh, God, Koontz is terrible. Don't even get me started on Koontz. Whatever people say about King, let it be known that he never had the sheer unmitigated lack of talent it takes to name characters "Enoch Cain Jr." and "Thomas Vanadium," let alone put those characters in the same goddamn book.
Not that I'm a Koontz fan (I actually haven't read him) but I always think of King when I think of critically reviled but popular writers: maybe the lowest common denominator knows what they're talking about, and college students will be talking about Koontz in 30 years the way my writer/intellectual snob friends talk about King today (we love him.)
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It was like he was deliberately making fun of his readers and writing in general.
The biggest "F U readers" in popular fiction has to be Thomas Harris' Hannibal. The entire second half of that book is a steaming turd he laid in his readers' laps. I haven't picked up one of his books since.
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The biggest "F U readers" in popular fiction has to be Thomas Harris' Hannibal. The entire second half of that book is a steaming turd he laid in his readers' laps. I haven't picked up one of his books since.
Agreed, which is sad waste of a great character. I really really enjoyed Red Dragon and Lambs.
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Not that I'm a Koontz fan (I actually haven't read him) but I always think of King when I think of critically reviled but popular writers: maybe the lowest common denominator knows what they're talking about, and college students will be talking about Koontz in 30 years the way my writer/intellectual snob friends talk about King today (we love him.)
The difference here is that King has a certain amount of critical success; genre critics have always given him props, and you even notice him getting some mainstream critical success with his more character-oriented novels. Koontz, on the other hand, is just fuck*ng terrible.
Not as terrible as Hannibal, which is a book so bad thinking about it makes me physically ill, but still fuck*ng terrible.
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Koontz, on the other hand, is just fuck*ng terrible.
According to who, though? I don't believe King was really well-respected by critics until recent years; I remember reading a respected literary critic saying that "Shakespeare's turning in his grave" after King won the NBA award a few years back. Perhaps genre critics would give more light to the matter.
You might be right, he might suck, I was just trying to say that I don't think that popular support is an insignificant measure of a writer's worth, and Koontz certainly has that. People give the LCD too much shit.
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Stephen King - your lie is that you are a good writer. Your two truths are that you are overpaid and have no idea how to end a book.
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He's no Sue Grafton.
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He's certainly no Sue Henry.
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He's no Sue Grafton.
Fun Fact -- Sue Grafton is from Louisville. The largest and most prestigious law firm in Louisville was called Wyatt, Grafton and Sloss -- Sue's dad (or uncle, I forget. -- Also, Mapother and Mapother founded by Tom Cruise Mapother's Granddad...)
I read Sue Grafton until about P. They started out fresh and funny, started drying out somewhere around K and were pretty well tedious by M.
I jumped from Grafton to Janet Evanovich to fill my light female detective fiction needs. Evanovich's has the same writing resume as Cornelius, so I never expected much more than pulp from her. Pulp it is, but quality pulp. Hey, any book that gives me two or three belly laughs is worth the effort; thus far she's always satisfied. JE is very regular in her production habits (I suppose the Harlequin folks teach you that,) you get a new Stephanie Plum novel every June. Plus, in the last year or so she started releasing some supplementary works. Kind of like the MAD special editions.
God knows I can't fault a writer for trying to make a buck. There does come a point where one wants to shake 'em and say "Have some dignity, dammit!" I think Evanovich crossed that line some time in 2006.
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Sue Henry writes about Alaska, and has dedicated some books to a friend of mine. She's a nice lady.
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God knows I can't fault a writer for trying to make a buck. There does come a point where one wants to shake 'em and say "Have some dignity, dammit!" I think Evanovich crossed that line some time in 2006.
This is sadly true. And that other series, with the NASCAR theme? It's just so obvious that that's an attempt to appeal to a big market that no one else writes books for, not that car racing had all kinds of fascinating unexplored possibilities for a mystery series.
I try not to blame her too. It's what she's good at and dignity won't put food on the table. But it's too bad.
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The funniest thing is that's like one of his best works. "Hey Steve, nice work. Um, you kind of stepped on your dick right there at the end, with it all being a dream, or a giant space spider, or whatever."
I kind of liked The Regulators, and the sister book to it (the name escapes me at the moment and I can't be arsed to look it up).
That's Desperation, I believe.
And I sympathize with the tone expressed in that other thread concerning that shame of toting about a book by some fairly famous author. Prancing about in public with a Clive Cussler book or something, I feel like such a sellout. I have to fight this urge, because books such as those still have their place, and I'd still like to believe even a bad dean koontz novel is still better than most of what's on TV.
And as for King, I have almost felt ashamed of my devotion to his works. But I enjoy his ideas, and there are few authors I've had as much fun discussing their books with others -- dredging up the most perverted or outlandish plot-device, or quoting a particularly sadistic character, and then laughing our heads off. It's excellent fun, and I'm not too uptight to admit that the majority of the books I read are in this type of light.
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I'd still like to believe even a bad dean koontz novel is still better than most of what's on TV.
Exactly. I mean, if the small part of the American public that still reads chooses to read Koontz, shouldn't we trust their judgment to a certain extent?
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Nah.
We as the TOUAMB board are their betters and they should read what we tell them to read.
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I'd still like to believe even a bad dean koontz novel is still better than most of what's on TV.
Oh fuck yes. I was considering my audience. I expect more from you folks. TV is the instrument of the devil.
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my friend katie's dad loves Koontz. She is really mad, because he talked her into reading one of Koontz's books. it sucked.
I almost feel worse when I'm carrying around some "classic." I feel like a pretentious fuck. because guess what-- I am one.
What are you reading? Oh... The Aeneid, huh? In Latin? OK... talk to you later, man.
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my friend katie's dad loves Koontz. She is really mad, because he talked her into reading one of Koontz's books. it sucked.
I almost feel worse when I'm carrying around some "classic." I feel like a pretentious fuck. because guess what-- I am one.
What are you reading? Oh... The Aeneid, huh? In Latin? OK... talk to you later, man.
I totally know the feeling. Like when people are talking about some tv show that I've never heard of, or thought went off the air years ago (like Apprentice) and I feel all smug for not knowing how Everybody Loves Raymond ended or whatever. Then I realize that the smugness puts me about one click away from those people who constantly point out that they don't own a tv.
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I always have to make myself feel better by telling them that I really suck at Latin, and I don't really understand any of it, and I have a D- in the class right now.
...which doesn't make me feel better for very long.
Can we agree that the most embarrassing thing is when you find some book by accident, and you don't know that it's really popular until you enthusiastically tell someone about it? They totally give you a look that... is not fun to receive.
in my case, it was my English teacher. SO MUCH WORSE.
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Can we agree that the most embarrassing thing is when you find some book by accident, and you don't know that it's really popular until you enthusiastically tell someone about it? They totally give you a look that... is not fun to receive.
in my case, it was my English teacher. SO MUCH WORSE.
Oh, you have got to be kidding sir. First you think of an idea that has already been done. Then you give it a title that nobody could possibly like. Didn't you think this through... [later]...was on the bestseller list for eighteen months! Every magazine cover had... [later]...most popular movies of all time, sir! What were you thinking?! [realizing] I mean, thank you, come again.
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Can we agree that the most embarrassing thing is when you find some book by accident, and you don't know that it's really popular until you enthusiastically tell someone about it? They totally give you a look that... is not fun to receive.
I had a similar feeling when I was about to hit post on my opinion about Thomas Harris. What if you erudite folks had said "You totally missed the point, you knob". I would have had to go back to posting snark on Fark.
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I found a copy of Needful Things in the lending bin up here the other day. Stamped on the book was the legend "Cook Inlet Pre-trial Facility".
Is this the best stuf fto have these folks reading? Can't we give them copies of Five Simple Steps to Emotional Healing (http://www.amazon.com/Five-Simple-Steps-Emotional-Healing/dp/0743213874/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-3589989-3429453?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174422942&sr=8-2) or You Don't Have to Learn Everything the Hard Way (http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Have-Learn-Everything-Hard/dp/0972322949/ref=pd_bbs_12_s9_rk/103-3589989-3429453?ie=UTF8&s=books&s9r=8a1080b60e08f56e010e1ad4ee8e0092&itemPosition=12&qid=1174423022&sr=8-12)?
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Well sure, all with the jailhouse tattoo guns made from Bic pens and toothbrush motors. I just don't think it's right. I think they ought to be reading The Little Prince and shit.
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Nah.
We as the TOUAMB board are their betters and they should read what we tell write for them to read.
Fixed that for you.
Also, back when I was an English major, before I... you know... came to my senses. There was this girl who just flat out hated me for no good reason. Then one day I was sitting there, and I took some stuff out of my bag, including Douglas Coupland's "Girlfriend in a Coma," and she was sitting in front of me and turned around, saw the book, looked at me in disgust and said " You do know that that's the name of a Smiths song, right?" And I said that I did (I did) and she just sighed and rolled her eyes, stared at me like I was a loser and finally turned back around. The next year I was in a tiny class, sure enough she was in it, and we each had to do a comparative report on two books, one from the curriculum and one we chose. I went for compairing Microserfs to Beloved (on the curriculum), not because I was a huge Douglas Coupland fan, but because there were some simple parallels about claiming personal freedom (basically I was too burnt out to work hard). I intentionally chose to present on a day I knew that girl would not be there, but the class before the instructor asked me what books I would be compairing, and when I said "Microserfs" the girl looked at me like I was made of garbage. To this day I have no clue why she hated me so. Also, what's so bad about Douglas Coupland? I mean, he's gone horribly, horribly down hill, but some of his early stuff had heart.
I love me some trash. It's great to read a pulp novel every so often, but I try to keep it concealed when I do.
Also, one time, a professor of mine let slip in class that her most recent book had just been published, but then begged us, begged us not to read it, rambling on about how she's just written it for money, then started telling us to read it so we'd see the sort of stuff we'd have to write to make a living. She was just clearly so embarassed. It was sort of sad. To this date it's still her most well known work.
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There was this girl who just flat out hated me for no good reason.
Man, English majors are stuffed with those kind of chicks. HATE.
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In my college experience last century, I found that... yes... there are a lot of those girls in English majors and other such majors, drama, writing, film, stuff like that. My theory on this is as such:
Those ladies were told they were good writers just because they were sexually attractive and now that they are going to school in a writing-related field and teachers who do not care if they are sexually attractive are telling them that they are not actually good writers, they are now hell of bitter.
This is not a sexist thing to say, though, because the same thing happens to guys... except instead of in writing, it is in music. Lots of guys who are shitty guitar players or shitty players of other rock instruments will be told that they are great by ladies who want to make Maximum Cuddles with them.
Then, when they go to a music school or try to make a real go of having a band, and people who do not want to have sex with them explain to them that they actually suck? They turn out just as bitter.
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In my college experience last century, I found that... yes... there are a lot of those girls in English majors and other such majors, drama, writing, film, stuff like that. My theory on this is as such:
Those ladies were told they were good writers just because they were sexually attractive and now that they are going to school in a writing-related field and teachers who do not care if they are sexually attractive are telling them that they are not actually good writers, they are now hell of bitter.
Kind of agree with the sentiment, but at my school, it's not so much in creative writing - our creative writing program is hella competitive, so those types of girls drop out after a semester or two of creative writing. The lady English majors I'm talking about are generally just over competitive and perhaps bitter because they're not attractive or developed their skill when they weren't attractive.
However, this is hell of true in the other fields you mentioned - dance, film, comm, photography. I live in the art house at my school, and I'm surrounded by them. Except, since this is a women's college, the cycle is perpetuated throughout school, so many of them still think their sh*t doesn't stink. Except they're completely aware of the connection between grades and their teacher wanting to sleep with them, so they're just extra-arrogant about their looks, sometimes without merit.
Whoops, sorry, I'm a little disillusioned with my friends right now.
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No. No one thought this girl was pretty. She was a militant Marxist with unshaven legs in khaki. I think she assumed I was one of those girls who came from a place of privilege. Meanwhile I was uber-poor and in school on a scholarship. She was just too terrifyingly angry for me to be even slightly able to explain, and had written me off without even bothering to look beyond her own equally ignorant assumption that I was rich and ignorant. Or perhaps more true: fuckin' bitches need their cunt pills. If the current me could go back and take the place of the younger, kinder, scared-er me, I probably would have torn a strip out of her and then there would have been fisticuffs, and as much as I'd like to think otherwise, that girl would kick my ass pretty hard. My Zen-like, lack of focused rage just doesn't work well when it comes to beatings.
A while back I walked into the local Vegan collective to meet a vegan friend, and there she was just glaring at me behind the counter. I wanted to turn around a leave, but my buddy was already set up at a table with her food. She just stood there staring at me, and the other lady behind the counter served me as she focused her rage on me. I was concerned as to what the spread the girl serving me put on the bread that came with the soup I'd ordered was (I'm allergic to soy), and when I asked, while the girl who served me explained that it was tahini, the girl I went to class with looked like she was going to murder me with her glare. It was years later and she still totally hated me. It was scary.
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No. No one thought this girl was pretty. She was a militant Marxist with unshaven legs in khaki.
Man, see, I have a friend like that (a little bit). She wouldn't glare at anyone for reading Koontz, but if someone pissed her off as you seem to have pissed this girl off, she would use it as supplementary evidence for her haterade.
Problem is, she's an absolutely brilliant writer, and she's super-smart in other ways too, so I can't hate her too much for it - she's an awful lot of fun, even if she does get way too up her own ass about stuff.
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Also, back when I was an English major, before I... you know... came to my senses.
Hey c'mon, we have feelings.
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Yeah... I came to my senses and got a theatre degree.
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You know the expression "I don't like your face,"? Fightin' words.
I don't know the mechanics of it, but I think there are certain people that we just instinctively/intuitively react badly to. People whose manner/expression/aura/whatever are somehow highly antithetical or offensive to us on some unconscious or subconscious level. People that we have an intense negative reaction to within split seconds of our first exposure to them for no good or explainable reason.
I know this has happened to me. I don't doubt that I've been the subject of it as well. Maybe that's what happened with you and your arch-nemesis.
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yeah, I know that there are certainly people that I dislike for no good reason. But normally later I realize that there were many perfectly reasonable, non-appearance-based reasons for me to hate them.
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yeah, I know that there are certainly people that I dislike for no good reason. But normally later I realize that there were many perfectly reasonable, non-appearance-based reasons for me to hate them.
Can't argue with that. I'm not saying that initial reaction isn't justified, just remarking on the phenomenon.