The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => People & Places => Topic started by: gloomba on August 22, 2007, 03:04:48 am
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So, I got engaged last Friday. It was a decision that had been a long time coming, and was not made lightly. But I have to admit that while I'd been kicking the idea around for a while, it was some time around this strip (http://achewood.com/index.php?date=05312007) that I really started to think seriously about it. I'm not saying I decided to get married because of a cartoon cat; clearly that would be absurd. But it was influential. The dude made some good points.
Is this awesome or pathetic? Or both? It is not clear.
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Congratulations! I have found in my personal experience that being married is extremely awesome. I hope it is as nice for you as it has been for me these long years.
I think that the neat thing about art like this, or like anything really, is that there is Something in it for you. There is something going on in your life, and it is swimming around in your head, and you see something like the strip you referenced, and it combines with the thing in your head and makes you say, "oh, neat!" That is what makes it Art.
I'm glad that in this case, Art helped you and your Lady along the path to wedded bliss. Good luck with that.
Did you propose in some geekily romantic and wonderful way, like building a ring that would flash your anniversary in binary? Or did you do the traditional "oops I dropped my fork" down-on-one-knee-with-ring-in-hand thing?
We want details, we ladies do.
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Well, she was already expecting a proposal because we had talked about it a couple of weeks ago over Mexican food and basically "unofficially" agreed that we were down with getting married, and we picked out a custom ring together, as she's allergic to a lot of metals so we had to order one made of titanium. I had been debating setting up some kind of elaborate proposal, but as it turned out, the ring arrived several days earlier than expected, and once I had it I just wanted to go ahead and do it. She came home from work and started eating a Popsicle, and I just got down on one knee and whipped it out (the ring). Guess I'm not too good at the whole being romantic thing, but what can I say. I like the direct approach.
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Awesome, congratulations.
Glad to hear that your lady can tolerate titanium. I feel her pain because I also have a ton of metal allergies and extremely sensitive skin. I'm not sure if I'll be able to even wear a ring, which upsets me. (I have to wear a watch with a velcro wristband and even that has to be loose or else I get contact dermatitis, I can't wear earrings or any jewelry, and I have to sew or iron patches to the inside of my jeans and other ##### so that the metal rivets don't touch my skin. I can't buy bras with metal slidey things or metal clasps. I have to use unscented liquid detergent, unscented bath products, Etc.) Silver is right out, but I also can't wear 10kt gold. Maybe a higher karat weight of gold would work?
Kelli is getting a palladium ring and she's really happy about that, but she doesn't have the weird metal sensitivity like I do. I don't know if I could wear titanium, since I've never worn it and I don't have any titanium jewelry. One of my friends in Alaska couldn't wear her platinum ring (!) because it gave her a rash, so she went to a jeweler and had them do this special clear-coat.
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Congratulations! I have found in my personal experience that being married is extremely awesome. I hope it is as nice for you as it has been for me these long years.
The second time around is even better.
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Hey, congrats Gloomba. Isn't it nice to know you've got someone to get wrinkly with?
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Congrats from a 10-year vet (coming up in Nov). When its good, its very good.
I have to use unscented liquid detergent, unscented bath products, Etc.) Silver is right out, but I also can't wear 10kt gold. Maybe a higher karat weight of gold would work?
And yet you love wearing perfumes? Why don't they bother your sensitivities?
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We are seven years in November. What is with the November anniversaries?
Keep this in mind when setting a date, gloomie. November is the most marriageable month of them all. It comes with an excellent dowry.
By which I mean, people will finish off your registry for Christmas presents.
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The second time around is even better.
Word up, my brother.
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The second time around is even better.
Too soon, Dawg!
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damn, dude, congrats! Marriage is a thing i hope to enjoy one day, but I think 19 is too young in this day and age.
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Too soon, Dawg!
Someone should have told me so I could have gotten the first one out of the way even faster.
On a more serious note: do any of you have children who, :ahem: predate your nuptials? When they get to be 8 or so, what do you tell them? We have an anniversary date, we just add several (6!) years to it...but she's gonna catch on eventually.
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Congrats from a 10-year vet (coming up in Nov). When its good, its very good.
And yet you love wearing perfumes? Why don't they bother your sensitivities?
It's weird, innit? I don't know why I get allergic reactions to wearing perfumed deodorant or clothes that were laundered in powder detergent, but I can wear fancy-schmancy French couture parfum no problem. I am going to be a SAD PANDA on the day that I have allergic reactions to wearing perfume.
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Someone should have told me so I could have gotten the first one out of the way even faster.
On a more serious note: do any of you have children who, :ahem: predate your nuptials? When they get to be 8 or so, what do you tell them? We have an anniversary date, we just add several (6!) years to it...but she's gonna catch on eventually.
Probably shouldn't have lied in the first place. Then again, I am not christian, so what do I know. Sorry to be an ass.
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I just want to say that titanium is awesome and therefore titanium wedding rings are awesome.
I'm pretty sure married superheroes wear titanium wedding rings.
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Yeah man. According to Wikipedia (so it must be true), "A titanium ring might cause problems with removal in case of an emergency, as hospital tools are unable to cut some grades of titanium, although the titanium ring maker's FAQ challenges this notion. The results of their tests have shown that a manual ring cutter can cut through a ring in under two minutes and electric tools would be faster. Regular electrician pliers will cut a gold ring in under a second." Some might see that as a problem; I see it as titanium asserting its dominance over lesser, wussy metals. I mean, to be defeated by electrician pliers in under a second? Come on!
It's titanium, baby!
P.S. Thanks for the congratulations/cynicism, everyone.
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Someone should have told me so I could have gotten the first one out of the way even faster.
On a more serious note: do any of you have children who, :ahem: predate your nuptials? When they get to be 8 or so, what do you tell them? We have an anniversary date, we just add several (6!) years to it...but she's gonna catch on eventually.
See, AD, in my family we don't talk about... anything. But long story short, someone on my dad's side put together a genealogy going way, way back to the 1500's. I was looking at it shortly after it was made, and it listed my older sister as having been born 3 months after my parents were married. Which explains why there are no wedding photos, why my paternal grandmother hates my mom, and some other things. I suppose it could have been an error... We have never talked about this. I did once, before seeing this study, ask my sister if she knew why our parents had no wedding photos and she said she had no idea, and sounded like she meant it.
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Does a kid who's less than 8 really have any idea of how long you've been married or what order you did it in or what societal norms you might be worried about? Seems like if at some point you just say "Oh yeah, we celebrate our anniversary from since we've been together but we got married in X" it wouldn't be that big a deal because seriously, how much time does a six year old spend thinking about what you did before she was born? Surely she has more interesting things on her mind.
But anyway, remember that you always get in more trouble for the coverup than for the original crime. There's no family secret that's worse than the big deal that'll be made over the fact that it was kept a secret.
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I think I was around 30 when I realized that I was born 7 months after my parents' wedding.
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On a more serious note: do any of you have children who, :ahem: predate your nuptials? When they get to be 8 or so, what do you tell them? We have an anniversary date, we just add several (6!) years to it...but she's gonna catch on eventually.
When I was 20 i found a picture of my mom marrying a guy who wasn't my father... in jail. He was there for murdering a dude..... with a clock (not glock, clock). Finding this information decades into my life made me suspicious of other things, because it was never told to me. I think giving a kid the straight deal as early as possible makes it seem normal and acceptable, as opposed to revealing it years later like you've been sitting on secrets. If my mom married a clock murderer before my father, what else isn't she telling me?
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My wedding ring is made of titanium. I am not a big jewelry guy; after we got engaged, we went around to jewelry stores to look for rings, and my response to pretty much everything was "meh." Then in one store I pointed to a titanium ring and said "that's kind of cool-looking." And she said "That's the most positive reaction you've had to any ring so far. That's obviously the one."
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I think giving a kid the straight deal as early as possible makes it seem normal and acceptable
A little kid knows so little about the world. When you're six and you hear your mom married a clock murderer, you possess so much less information to compare it to. For all you know, everyone's mom did that sort of thing, and you're just now hearing about it like you're just now hearing about a lot of other things. It's just another piece of data about the world, instead of something that turns all your expectations upside down because, you just don't have that many expectations at that point. Yeah, at some point it's going to occur to you how weird it is, but even then, anything you've known all your life... is just by definition sort of normal and not so traumatizing.
However, playing devil's advocate... My relatives were not big secret keepers, but my best friend's family basically seemed to keep secrets just for the hell of it. It gave her enough material for a whole book about finding out about her mother's life after she died, so at least in the long run she made some money off it.
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I once had somebody ask me, "when did your parents tell you that you're adopted." And I said, "when did your parents tell you your name?" It's just a fact I've always known, therefore it wasn't some big deal when I found out.
When engagement ring shopping I saw some titanium wedding bands that I thought looked neat. Naturally the SO thought I manged to find the single ugliest band in the store.
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my mom didn't know what her real name was until she was 20 or so and became a US citizen.
apparently Chileans are big on lying-- we just had a conversation yesterday about how my mom grew up basically hating lies because of her mom. Either my parents have been straight up with me and their lives are pretty uninteresting, or there are major secrets that I have not figured out yet.
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A little kid knows so little about the world. When you're six and you hear your mom married a clock murderer, you possess so much less information to compare it to. For all you know, everyone's mom did that sort of thing...
So wait, your mom didn't marry a guy who murdered another man with a timepiece?
I like to bring up the story during awkward silences at dinner table company that doesn't know really know my mother. "Mom, tell them about the time you married the prisoner who got murderous on purpose with a clock. Everyone loves that story!"
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Appropos of little, I think sex should now be referred to as "the great indoor fight".
Thank you.
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Remember the episode of "Everybody Loves Raymond" where the older brother finds out he was concieved out of wedlock? Instead of fudging their anniversary, they fudged his birthday, so all of a sudden he discovered he was a year older than he thought. You could always tell your daughter she's only two.
Several thoughts on family secrets:
My cousin was born seven months after her parents were married. My grandfather claimed that she (over 8 lbs at birth with a full head of hair) was "premature."
My great-uncle died when I was six. When I was seventeen, I found out that while he did, I suppose, technically die "of Alzheimer's," the official cause of death was self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. And he took his live-in girlfriend with him. This was quite a shock. When I asked my mom about it, she said, "You were too young to understand when it happened, and it never came up after that."
I also found out when I was about nineteen that something happened when I was very small, which is pretty much the only thing I won't discuss with anyone. This is mainly because I have absolutely no memory of it, even though it seems I should. Suffice it to say that I never believed in repressed memories before then, but now I do. I was terribly upset when this skeleton emerged from the closet, but at the same time I understood why it had never come up before -- Mom thought I must remember and just didn't want to talk about it. It's been almost ten years since I found out and I'm still not comfortable with it. But it's an uncomfortable kind of thing -- far more traumatic than discovering that your parents felt that a binding legal contract wasn't necessarily a prerequisite to starting a family together.
Re: adoption, my in-laws had a similar response when it came to Pedro's oldest brother. He was to be the first of several adopted children, because they believed they would not be able to have any "homemade" kids. It turned out they were able to have four more, but they were always open about it and as a youngster the oldest actually lorded it over the younger kids because he "got chose." He also tried to convince one brother that the younger could be adopted into another family, but the older could not be because "I have already been adopted, you can only do it once." Hilarious times.
Finally, we have been struggling with the decision of whether or not to keep Little P's autistic status a secret from him. Clearly, everyone in the family knows, but we're not sure if he will benefit from understanding that he's different, or if he'll feel held back by the label. Further complicating our decision is the fact that our nephew, who is seven, is also autistic but has not ever heard that label applied to himself. He knows that he talked late, went to speech and occupational therapy, and needs special help in the classroom, but he doesn't know his exact diagnosis.
I'm worried that if Little P gets to be a teenager and discovers the label on his own, he'll be angry at us for not having told him. But I don't want autism to be an excuse for poor behavior or lack of academic effort. Especially if he turns out to have typical siblings -- is it more damaging to compare yourself to others whose brains are structured in fundamentally different ways, or to expect less of yourself because you know you have a disability?
So, in other words, AD, I don't know what you ought to do. But if you figure it out, let me know.
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JL, hope you're doing okay.
I think AD should be honest with the kid if the kid asks. It'll help them come to a more realistic idea of what love and sex are, and how they are connected.
This is off-topic, but as long as we're talking about sex, my mind jumped to gender - does anyone here have any experience with trans issues?
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I think it's generally a good idea to avoid lying to or keeping secrets from kids if at all possible. They're going to find out sooner or later, and it's true that you'll get in more trouble for the coverup.
I also don't think that any kid in this day and age would give two shits about whether they were conceived out of wedlock.
Finally, we have been struggling with the decision of whether or not to keep Little P's autistic status a secret from him.
I don't think you should. He's going to notice he's different, and if he doesn't know why, he'll probably assume it's his fault and that there's something wrong with him. I think it's in a person's best interest to know as much about himself as possible.
Disclaimer: I don't have kids and probably never will, nor do I have any experience or knowledge of the subject beyond having been one not too long ago.
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I had an interesting conversation yesterday where I found out that I am apparently more learning-disabled or whatever than I was aware of. apparently my parents thought they had explained all the details at the time I was tested, and that I still remembered? It is interesting to note that the things I am good at are the same as the things I am supposed to be bad at, though. Also, things I have always struggled with without realizing it now have an explanation. It was also interesting to learn that certain slight social issues I have (for instance: tendency to blather endlessly without catching myself) were predicted.
The one thing I got a huge laugh out of is that apparently they told my parents that I had an unbelievably hard time memorizing random strings of numbers. This has made itself evident recently (I volunteered for a lot psych experiments because I had to for my psych class, and I got very very frustrated with several of them. As did the experimenter. Well, i guess every study has to have some outliers.)
they also told my parents that I'm really smart. So, that's a good thing to be told, as long as they're telling me all the things they were told I was going to be really bad at (some of which I am actually really bad at, and some of which I am really good at for some reason.)
JL-- I would say tell him that he has been diagnosed as autistic, and tell him that it effects different people to different degrees? I would say that that way you can keep him from feeling lied to when he learns about it later, but without giving him any preconceptions about what he will be bad at.
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So wait, your mom didn't marry a guy who murdered another man with a timepiece?
I thought it was pretty impressive that my grandmother divorced my mother's father, married another guy, and then divorced him and remarried her first husband. I thought it was pretty scandalous for the era. But now in comparison it seems totally boring.
JL, as for keeping autism a secret - He's going to notice he's different, so you can't conceal the fact, just the word for it. And keeping the word a secret gives it more damaging power than just using it like it's any other word.
Also - haven't you ever had a mysterious medical condition and then finally gotten a word for it? It's a huge relief. It feels much better than thinking that you're the only one who's this way and no one understands what it is.
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my friend Hannah told me about how when she was a kid, her parents told her that Christian kids believe in this guy called Santa, etc. She spent many years around christmastime saying things like "wow, so, Santa brought those? not your PARENTS? Wouldn't it be easier for your PARENTS to do it?" She said no kid ever figured it out, though. She said they always seemed kind of sad that she didn't get presents from Santa.
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JL, hope you're doing okay.
I think AD should be honest with the kid if the kid asks. It'll help them come to a more realistic idea of what love and sex are, and how they are connected.
This is off-topic, but as long as we're talking about sex, my mind jumped to gender - does anyone here have any experience with trans issues?
I met a trans guy in college at an LGBT party once. He'd been born a lady (Renée) but had later transitioned and became René. He was the butchest, manliest man I'd ever seen. He was totally ripped (muscular) and so butch that he could've been a diesel mechanic or something. He was a sharp dresser too, and very handsome. I was shocked when I found out that he wasn't biologically XY. Not only that, he had children before he transitioned, and they still called him "Mom". Craaaazy! Gender and society is such a weird construct.
When I was 20 i found a picture of my mom marrying a guy who wasn't my father... in jail. He was there for murdering a dude..... with a clock (not glock, clock). Finding this information decades into my life made me suspicious of other things, because it was never told to me. I think giving a kid the straight deal as early as possible makes it seem normal and acceptable, as opposed to revealing it years later like you've been sitting on secrets. If my mom married a clock murderer before my father, what else isn't she telling me?
My mom was married twice before she married my dad. I think I was probably around 12 when I was digging around through a huge box of family photos and found wedding pictures of my mom that were not with my dad. t always made me suspicious as hell that she wasn't telling me the whole truth about ANYTHING after that.
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I worked with a trans guy for several years. He was still nominally female at the beginning, but dressed ambiguously, had a gender neutral name, and didn't overtly communicate a sexual preference or identity during casual conversation. Some of his female coworkers took to shadowing him until he went into the ladies room to satisfy their curiosity. Its interesting to see how twisted out of shape people get over not being able to categorize someone into the basic bins. Later on he surgically transitioned, married a woman and adopted 4 kids. He's since left my company to run his wife's nail salon businesses.
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I think you should take with a grain of salt any child-rearing advice you get from imaginary people on the internets. I think it is fun when your parents keep secrets from you and then you find them out later. It makes them seem more mysterious and less lame and boring.
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I'm cool with secrets about my parents' life before I was born.
It's the secrets about *my* life that freak me out.
In the end, Pedro and I will do what we will do. But it's interesting to see what my imaginary friends think.
Especially when most of them agree with me.
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I'm sure you'll do fine, because most people who aren't complete idiots* somehow seem to do a good job raising the little ones. I'm just not going to give you any advice about it because I don't have kids, and will never have kids, and can barely manage to make the correct decision about what to do with my own life maybe half the time.
I have sort of perversely enjoyed finding out weird shit about my parents, grandparents, and siblings long after the fact. Turns out my (adoptive) paternal granfather was bi, and pretty much told Grandma he was going to be who he was, so to speak. Who knew you could be bi back in the 30s?
*Many, many people who have children actually are complete idiots, more's the pity. None of the folks around here who have kids fit this bill, as far as I can tell.
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Parenting <is> interesting territory, isn't it. Far more interesting even than marriage.
The Autism one - I was supposedly ADD (back then, they only had the term 'hyperactive" to use) and as an adult there have been lots of other theories about 'me' that are now either untestable or irrelevant since I'm all growed up. My personal preference would be to let a child know about their special difference from other kids at an age where they can process and accept it without labeling themselves, or worse, develop a crutch (I can't do this because I'm _____________). Because personalities are different, some kids are going to say the opposite, (I WILL do this in spite of my _____________).
I'm a pretty screwed up human. If I came from a factory, I would have been recalled. The ADD, hypersecreting adrenalin, a moderately severe scoliosis, hips cocked, legs different lengths - born 9 weeks premature in 1967, when they couldn't do a damn thing but watch to see if you lived or not - (and then, finding out I'm adopted, the fairly severe and frequent dad-beatings, etc) I mean, lifes tough and we all face our own barriers. I personally think that the decision to tell/explain these things is predicated on how ready the child is to accept it and how they will react, and how it will affect the way they approach everything that life throws at them. They should know. The question, really, is when. And you as parents will make the best decision you can, and it might work out fabulously and it might not, but you know, there is no instruction book, no oracle to consult, and every case is different, so it will be OK no matter what. Because he loves you and you love him and he trusts that you are trying to do the right thing all the time, and eventually, also understands that you don't always.
All the people on the board here who post about their kids and families are, as far as I know, terrific parents doing a really hard job that costs money and time, and they do it out of love for their children and spouse, and love for the whole idea that life, their life, goes on through their children. You are all awesome.
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I worked with a trans guy for several years. He was still nominally female at the beginning, but dressed ambiguously, had a gender neutral name, and didn't overtly communicate a sexual preference or identity during casual conversation. Some of his female coworkers took to shadowing him until he went into the ladies room to satisfy their curiosity. Its interesting to see how twisted out of shape people get over not being able to categorize someone into the basic bins. Later on he surgically transitioned, married a woman and adopted 4 kids. He's since left my company to run his wife's nail salon businesses.
It really, REALLY pisses me off when people get all shitty about gender. Who the fuck CARES what bathroom they use? Why do they get so riled up until they can finally put that person in a tiny box called "male" or "female"? Gender ain't binary, as far as I'm concerned.
Then again, when I was 16 and scrawny with a shaved head, I wish I had a nickel for every time some insecure middle-aged man called me "sir" or asked me if I was a boy or a girl, or some catty suburban bitch screeched at me that i was in the wrong bathroom. That shit got really old, really quick.
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I have sort of perversely enjoyed finding out weird shit about my parents, grandparents, and siblings long after the fact. Turns out my (adoptive) paternal granfather was bi, and pretty much told Grandma he was going to be who he was, so to speak. Who knew you could be bi back in the 30s?
Eleanor Roosevelt (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_n770/ai_21236434), for one.
Don't ask rhetorical questions like this in front of an historian. Especially one who studies women's history. Unless, of course, you enjoy hearing dissertation-length diatribes regarding common misconceptions about social norms throughout the twentieth century.
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This is off-topic, but as long as we're talking about sex, my mind jumped to gender - does anyone here have any experience with trans issues?
Yes, I do. If you look back you'll find I have posted about several experiences ranging from "I have a crush on him - he has no c*ck" to "when he became a woman, his boyfriend wanted to murder him" to "there was a Diana Ross drag queen posed for a photo shoot on my car" plus lots more that I've never posted about. If I weren't in a happy, lifetime relationship with man, I think I would most likely be a slut for F to M trans.
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Eleanor Roosevelt (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_n770/ai_21236434), for one.
Don't ask rhetorical questions like this in front of an historian. Especially one who studies women's history. Unless, of course, you enjoy hearing dissertation-length diatribes regarding common misconceptions about social norms throughout the twentieth century.
I was kidding. I would have thought that my posting history and etc. would have made that clear, but the internet has fooled me again.
I think there have been bi people since there have been people.
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Well, duh.
But historians have our senses of humor extracted during the first semester of graduate school and don't get them back until after completion of our theses. So, you see, I was contractually obligated to not let it go.
Also, any chance I get to educate people about Mrs. Roosevelt's lesbian lover is a chance to do some good in the world.
Education.
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Well, duh.
But historians have our senses of humor extracted during the first semester of graduate school and don't get them back until after completion of our theses. So, you see, I was contractually obligated to not let it go.
Also, any chance I get to educate people about Mrs. Roosevelt's lesbian lover is a chance to do some good in the world.
Education.
Really, anytime there is more lesbian education for other, non-lesbian-type people, it is a good thing.
Are you sure all the historians get their senses of humor back?
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Are you sure all the historians get their senses of humor back?
No.
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I was drunk, but my point a couple pages ago was that the only reason for him not to tell is because of christian morals. I was apologizing because I thought he was wrong and said it bluntly. This message is for that one guy who handled assbar with the utmost class and dignity.
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I know a couple of trans folks but they're trans folks in the science-fiction fan community, which means that "was formerly a dude, is now a lady" pales in comparison to "believes she is from Atlantis".
There is a large tolerance for weirdness in this subculture, is my point.
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I split the autism stuff (missed one) and tried to split off the transgender stuff because this thread was getting hard to follow...but apparently my trying to split the same thread more than once in a row made things weird. Later, perhaps.
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I oughta clarify here that Christian Morals isn't really factored into my question. If it were, I wouldn't probably let this slip on a message board. And although I'm not as outraged as Ash (thanks for getting my back, dude) it is a little puzzling to get that particular response to a sincere question about a serious issue.
I guess I eventually processed my feelings and answered my own question with a much longer post later; one thing that we parents try to do is to move our kids along in a direction that we hope makes their lives that much better than ours in every possible way. Do I have deep seated issues about going to hell because I had a baby out of wedlock? No. We stayed together and made an excellent family. I would be far more deserving of condemnation if I were to kick the mom and baby to the curb, which happens with much more alarming frequency and with obviously greater societal cost and bad personal outcomes. Do I want my daughter to have kids before she gets married? No. Will I love her if she does? Yes. Will I love my grandkids? Yes. Was I born out of wedlock? Yes. Do I feel less valuable because of that? I may have at angst-ridden points in my life, but not now.
I don't want that (having kids outside of marriage) to seem like a thing to do to her 8 year-old mind because it will eventually be an 18 year old mind. I want to her to think about college, marriage, career and children in some order that places college first and marriage before children because I know that formula works really well. Even if I didn't live that way. I wish I had.
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Drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, bubby. Fix one and work on living with the other.
I could be in trouble here.
Wait, no, I'm ok. I can live with being drunk. I'm only drunk half the time, after all.
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Drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, bubby. Fix one and work on living with the other.
Dude, now all you have to do is throw up on Dean Wormer!
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Well I guess I thought the only reason he didn't want her to know is because he raised her to believe that it is wrong to have sex outside of marriage or whatever. In which case he is just creating a problem for himself. But yeah, I guess there are a lot of reasons to not want your kid to have kids before marriage, mainly do to age, stuff you already listed, etc. Sorry again.
One other thing, see I was raised in the "buckle of the bible belt" so I kind of have a chip on my shoulder. Lots of people where I am from do really, really dumb things in the name of god. So yeah, sometimes I see things a little differently. I am trying to come to grips with the fact that Christianity is a decent religion that teaches good things to the vast majority of its subscribers, it is just that my personal experiences do not really support that.
Anyhow, for what it is worth, please tell your kid the truth.
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You know, since I don't have kids and don't really realte to traditional mores vis-a-vis the way people relate to other people in a romantic way, it always comes out of left field for me that having a child out of wedlock is an issue. I mean, how many gay couples have children out of wedlock? The only thing about that situation that bothers me is that some of them would like to be in wedlock and can't be.
Maybe you can tell the child that you folks were protesting the fact that some people cannot get married to who they want to in this country. Of course, you'd have to tell them you threw the towel in after a while.
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You know, since I don't have kids and don't really realte to traditional mores vis-a-vis the way people relate to other people in a romantic way, it always comes out of left field for me that having a child out of wedlock is an issue. I mean, how many gay couples have children out of wedlock? The only thing about that situation that bothers me is that some of them would like to be in wedlock and can't be.
Maybe you can tell the child that you folks were protesting the fact that some people cannot get married to who they want to in this country. Of course, you'd have to tell them you threw the towel in after a while.
Too many other complex issues to explain once I open that can of worms....interesting thought, though.
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Sometimes I'm afraid that, the way things are going, I'm going to have to explain to my son why we waited until after we were married four years to have him. Most of my friends my age who have kids concieved their first before marriage. Our family is the exception. When I tell my kids that we were both virgins on our wedding night, they will probably laugh at me.
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Also, any chance I get to educate people about Mrs. Roosevelt's lesbian lover is a chance to do some good in the world.
Education.
Kelli said that she saw a photo of Eleanor Roosevelt on a yacht or something wearing a huuuuge rock of an engagement ring, and there was another young woman next to her. Both of them look devastated or at least really forlorn. She said the caption says nothing about her companion, whom kelli suspects was her lover, but the caption only mentioned the engagement ring. Do you know about that? Is that the same lady?
Also, smells, you hell of got a tiny can for that post. Awesome.
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I don't know the photo, but based on my suspicions about the timing of it -- pre-marriage to Franklin? The other woman could not have been her lover. She didn't meet Lorena Hickock until well after she was married -- I believe they met during FDR's presidential campaign, actually.
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When I tell my kids that we were both virgins on our wedding night, they will probably laugh at me.
No, they will be too busy feeling ill because you have made them think about their parents having sex.