The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: theinevitable on November 20, 2007, 07:46:57 pm
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I have been listening to this compilation of Iraqi folk music lately. And there is this one guy on there, Ja'afar Hassan, who does this crazy Iraqi-folk-rock stuff with really cool guitar that's a mix of crazy Iraqi folk music and more american-style folk-rock stuff (Byrds-ish). Looking up stuff about him on the internet... it ends up he was a propagandist for Saddam. his songs are all about how it's time for a change and Saddam will save us or whatever. except for, you know, this one which has a lot of lines about "Filistiniyaat" (Palestinians) which I worry about for a different reason. At the same time, I don't really know most of what he is saying (except the occasional word that pops out-- "he's... he's saying that something happened at night. wait, I think now he said something about a neighbor?"), so I am basically just appreciating the cool middle-eastern-inflected rock music. But it still makes me kind of uncomfortable. What is your opinion of this kind of thing? It occurs to me that a lot of the music I listen to is violent or misogynistic or just generally... nihilistic and negative... and that doesn't really bother me most of the time. But the idea that this guy's stuff is straight-up propaganda is a little too much for me.
Thoughts?
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oh, yeah, his stuff came out in the late 60's and early 70's.
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The song that immediately springs to mind for me is Guns 'n' Roses' "One in a Million." Muscially speaking, it's a great song, a fantastic fuck*ng song. And then he sings about "niggers, immigrants and faggots," and I feel uncomfortable. I've always had a weird dual mindset about that one; I try to enjoy the song without thinking about it too much, but I know I shouldn't.
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When I was a kid, The Wall had me pretty confused. Does he really want to shoot the queens and the coons and the reds and the jews??? I was like, 'man... that ain't cool.' But I thought the album was pretty good, so whatever.
At the time, I never understood how people could miss the message of Huck Finn.
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But if there are lyrics that I find morally repugnant, it's definitely 'Spirit In The Sky.' Not because they are Christian, but because they are so corny. "I'm gonna go to the place that's the best." Yeah, Jesus inspires some real poetry, don't he?
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But if there are lyrics that I find morally repugnant, it's definitely 'Spirit In The Sky.' Not because they are Christian, but because they are so corny. "I'm gonna go to the place that's the best." Yeah, Jesus inspires some real poetry, don't he?
Norman Greenbaum was actually Jewish, and wrote the song because he saw a gospel performance on TV and said, "Yeah, I can do that. [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_in_the_Sky)" So his heart wasn't really in it.
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Right-wing warhawk country music makes me want to fill the wells and reservoirs of the South with sterility drugs.
I cannot help it, this is just the feeling it gives me.
Call me nuts but I find supporting the idea of war to be more sickening than any kind of hate speech. Most hate speech, I can write off as ignorant and pity the speaker or... write off as sensationalization and think that the speaker is just cynically grabbing at cash.
But bloodlust, fuck, it is something we all have no matter how good or bad people we are and so it is most important that no one fuck*ng glorifies it.
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Well at the time he was writing this crap, S.H. was a Socialist hero of the people.
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Right-wing warhawk country music makes me want to fill the wells and reservoirs of the South with sterility drugs.
I cannot help it, this is just the feeling it gives me.
Call me nuts but I find supporting the idea of war to be more sickening than any kind of hate speech. Most hate speech, I can write off as ignorant and pity the speaker or... write off as sensationalization and think that the speaker is just cynically grabbing at cash.
But bloodlust, fuck, it is something we all have no matter how good or bad people we are and so it is most important that no one fuck*ng glorifies it.
So when the Star Spangled Banner, our national anthem, plays and glorifies our war of independence... you're just sitting there scowling at lyrics and cursing the founding fathers?
Stuff about how ridiculous LFM sounds that would probably just start some flaming and make me look like a troll when really I just cant believe the stuff he says.
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I don't like the bits about violence and bullshit, certainly.
"God Bless America" is a lot better, a lot more my style, I'll even take the vague religiousity if it means no glorification of bombs and guns and other such hossshit.
EDIT: "This Land Is Your Land, This Land is My Land" is probably the best of such songs.
Also, when the Sadaam songwriter was at his peak, he was the American right-wing's best buddy too. All this "the enemy of my enemy" bullshit turning everyone into enemies over bullshit like oil and Gods and other type monsters.
Back then, he was the good guy because he was fighting Iran and those were the bad guys at the time.
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, water is under us, water is over us.
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I always did think the singing about rockets and stuff was a bit odd personally, there's a fair way between that and morally repugnant though.
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I can be down with the Star Spangled Banner, 'cause it was written about being able to see our nascent country's flag still flying over our fortress that was being attacked. I realize that the British didn't see it that way, but it was still an act of defense taking place on our soil. At least, the lyrics for the verse that we sing. Some of the later ones are kind of... well.
And I'm not getting into song lyrics that bug me, 'cause there are a lot of them, but I always feel uncomfortable listening to "Captain Jack."
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I've always felt very uncomfortable about songs in the "woman as helpless appendage of man" pop sub-genre -- you know the ones. Songs about how the singer will be/is crushed without her man -- or, alternately, how she's screwing up the relationship and hates herself but won't just fix it. Thankfully, most of the songs of this sort are aso crap, but The Cardigans' "Lovefool" is the one that I really like and feel terrible about liking.
(The only good side of this is that my mother and I will listen to the Top 40 station and yell together at songs of this sort. "So, she's in love with him, but she's cheating on him and it's killing her inside? There's a solution, lady: DUMP THE OTHER GUY. OR DUMP HIM. Christ, this isn't rocket surgery!")
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I've always felt very uncomfortable about songs in the "woman as helpless appendage of man" pop sub-genre -- you know the ones. Songs about how the singer will be/is crushed without her man -- or, alternately, how she's screwing up the relationship and hates herself but won't just fix it. Thankfully, most of the songs of this sort are aso crap, but The Cardigans' "Lovefool" is the one that I really like and feel terrible about liking.
(The only good side of this is that my mother and I will listen to the Top 40 station and yell together at songs of this sort. "So, she's in love with him, but she's cheating on him and it's killing her inside? There's a solution, lady: DUMP THE OTHER GUY. OR DUMP HIM. Christ, this isn't rocket surgery!")
Maybe you would think this genre has reached its catalyst with the recent modern country song "Stay" by Sugarland. As a Dude I cant admit to ever having listened to this song, but I've heard it is good from people that aren't me or other men I know.
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Thought of another one: "You Can Make Them Like You" by the Hold Steady. I think it's supposed to be satirical, but it comes off as misogynistic.
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I find it curious (a very irritating strand of "curious") that both USA and Brazil share a trend in lyrics where a black male declares to this one woman that, all the other ladies he's fucked/ is currently fuck*ng / will likely fuck in the near future notwithstanding, *she's* his only real love / has always been his only love / will always be his only love. What the fuck does that mean?
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I've always felt very uncomfortable about songs in the "woman as helpless appendage of man" pop sub-genre -- you know the ones. Songs about how the singer will be/is crushed without her man -- or, alternately, how she's screwing up the relationship and hates herself but won't just fix it. Thankfully, most of the songs of this sort are aso crap, but The Cardigans' "Lovefool" is the one that I really like and feel terrible about liking.
Plenty of love songs are self-destructive though. How many old blues songs are about how some guy's 'baby' is 'so mean'? Well ok now I'm just thinking of 'hit the road Jack' but I think it's a valid point.
Not that I disagree with you about songs being garbage, just that there are plenty of songs about guys in terrible relationships too.
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I find it curious (a very irritating strand of "curious") that both USA and Brazil share a trend in lyrics where a black male declares to this one woman that, all the other ladies he's fucked/ is currently fuck*ng / will likely fuck in the near future notwithstanding, *she's* his only real love, has always been his only love. What the fuck does that mean?
hey man, whys it always gotta be a brother? Im sure the native americans and asians share the sympathy that pimpin aint easy. Players playing the game have no race or creed, only a strong hand and a watch for keepin time.
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I find it curious (a very irritating strand of "curious") that both USA and Brazil share a trend in lyrics where a black male declares to this one woman that, all the other ladies he's fucked/ is currently fuck*ng / will likely fuck in the near future notwithstanding, *she's* his only real love / has always been his only love / will always be his only love. What the fuck does that mean?
I am similarly amused by the R. Kelly type of song in which he says "ooh baby give me some, it's OK, no one has to know." You LYING BASTARD. Tomorrow you'll be down on the corner telling your crew exactly what you did with her, and making up some other shit on top of it.
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"I ain't too proud to beg" comes to mind, as does "Please, Please, Please, Please."
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Three words:
Lay, Lady, Lay.
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I love the Rolling Stones, but I frequently will be grooving to them and then realize that Mick Jagger does not frequently take a positive view of women.
Also, Sugaree, by the Grateful Dead. "Please forget you knew my name, m y darling Sugaree" - what is that?
Also, much of Britney Spears' new album (which I love for the most part).
None of these are morally repugnant to me. They just make me uncomfortable.
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not repugnant, but... something.
This song what I have spent my whole life trying to say. (http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/tpain/yostomach.html)
Except that, you know, I have never actually had the need or desire to say that.
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LFM, dude, you know that "This Land Is Your Land" isn't really the same at all as the other songs you were talking about, right?
I mean, to paraphrase a verse that isn't in the song that "they" play in elementary school:
... the sign said private property
but on the back side, it didn't say nothing
this land was made for you and me.
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Yes, yeah, I do know that.
That was... kinda my point.
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Three words:
Lay, Lady, Lay.
Technically that's just two words.
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Thought of another one: "You Can Make Them Like You" by the Hold Steady. I think it's supposed to be satirical, but it comes off as misogynistic.
That album is fuck*ng great. I'm sorry you don't like that song, though.
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Also, Sugaree, by the Grateful Dead. "Please forget you knew my name, m y darling Sugaree" - what is that?
They were co-conspirators in a murder. She got caught, he didn't. He doesn't want her to rat him out.
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They were co-conspirators in a murder. She got caught, he didn't. He doesn't want her to rat him out.
I guess I never listened to that song too very carefully, but I always thought that the singer just wanted the lady to forget him and move on with her life because he was about to be gone for good.
I like this better because it means that both parties are grieving.
Also, I never owned a Grateful Dead album before about 10 years ago, but I now find that I have 7 separate versions of this song on my computer. Have I become a Dead Head? Actually, I'm still pretty ambivalent about them, but their music is so easy to collect it's hard not to get a bunch of recordings. Especially if you go to house parties where they trade Grateful Dead Recordings.
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I guess I never listened to that song too very carefully, but I always thought that the singer just wanted the lady to forget him and move on with her life because he was about to be gone for good.
When they come to take you down
When they bring that wagon around
Just one thing I ask of you
Just one thing to do
Please forget you knew my name
My darlin'
Sugaree
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When they come to take you down
When they bring that wagon around
Just one thing I ask of you
Just one thing to do
Please forget you knew my name
My darlin'
Sugaree
Excellent, thanks guys, I've been wondering.
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I like this better because it means that both parties are grieving.
I guess that's not clear, but I was agreeing with your interpretation.
~Paul
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I've gotten a little bit annoyed by that "Lips of an Angel" song - it didn't bother me at first, but listening to women around me bitch about it, it starts to make sense. Dude's talking to his ex while his current chick is in the next room, and how he wishes he was still with the first chick. Boo to that noise. Grow a spine, dick.
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That album is fuck*ng great. I'm sorry you don't like that song, though.
Oh but I do like that song. I'm just saying, I could understand how one might think it takes a dim view of women.
You don't have to deal with the dealers
Let your boyfriend deal with the dealers
It only gets inconvenient
When you want to get high alone
You don't have to go to the right kind of schools
Let your boyfriend come from the right kind of schools
You can wear his old sweatshirt
You can cover yourself like a bruise
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I've gotten a little bit annoyed by that "Lips of an Angel" song - it didn't bother me at first, but listening to women around me bitch about it, it starts to make sense. Dude's talking to his ex while his current chick is in the next room, and how he wishes he was still with the first chick. Boo to that noise. Grow a spine, dick.
Yeah, that song has some pretty repugnant lyrics when you get right down to it. (I believe it's also implied that the ex also has a new guy? Never mind that the whole thing has overtones of "we were emotionally horrible for each other and broke up over it, but we want to get back together because you gave fantastic blowjobs" -- or maybe that's just my interpretation of the "lips of an angel" bit.
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Something that I've never understood is why people loved the song "Follow Me" by Uncle Kracker. It's a song about a homewrecker, so it always mystified me when stupid girls in college swooned and shrieked, "I LUV THIS SONG!" whenever the DJ played it.
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Oh but I do like that song. I'm just saying, I could understand how one might think it takes a dim view of women.
You don't have to deal with the dealers
Let your boyfriend deal with the dealers
It only gets inconvenient
When you want to get high alone
You don't have to go to the right kind of schools
Let your boyfriend come from the right kind of schools
You can wear his old sweatshirt
You can cover yourself like a bruise
I can see how people might think it takes a dim view of a certain type of woman, namely the type who lacks ambition and self-reliance. Kind of like the rest of the drunken burnouts that make up the rich scenery of The Hold Steady's lyrics.
I mean, once you realize all of their songs are about awful human beings, it's hard to take just one and extrapolate a deeper meaning from its critical portrayal of a character. Everyone in their songs is nasty in his or her own special but connected way.
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I'm not sure about moral repugnance, but I have a visceral hatred of really whiny guys singing songs. Like Joshua Kadison or that song that just makes me want to scream by that nutless James Blunt character.
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Something that I've never understood is why people loved the song "Follow Me" by Uncle Kracker. It's a song about a homewrecker, so it always mystified me when stupid girls in college swooned and shrieked, "I LUV THIS SONG!" whenever the DJ played it.
I heard this song played at a wedding reception once. This is why you find out if your DJ has another job or actually makes an entire living from this. Professionals do not play songs about infidelity at a wedding. I hope.
Brown Sugar is an awesome song, but I feel guilty about thinking that. I got really uncomfortable when Greg Gumbel called it his favorite song ever.
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I heard this song played at a wedding reception once. This is why you find out if your DJ has another job or actually makes an entire living from this. Professionals do not play songs about infidelity at a wedding. I hope.
Brown Sugar is an awesome song, but I feel guilty about thinking that. I got really uncomfortable when Greg Gumbel called it his favorite song ever.
Oh god, somebody played it at a wedding reception? Hunt's move!
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the one I'll always wonder about is
back in 99
watching movies all the time
is when i went away for my first crime
what was his first crime? why is the defining characteristic of this period that he frequently watched movies? I listened to this song so many times this summer while washing dishes at my job, and it never became clear to me.
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It's so dirty when it's in the right mood
Give it some brandy and some Chinese food
Take her for a spin on your stereo jack
Tell her she's the best girl you've ever had
Give it some gold to put round its neck
Bet her old man puts you on the deck
But it's so dirty with me - it's so dirty with me
It's so dirty with me - it's so dirty with me
It's So Dirty - Squeeze
I love Squeeze, but this is pretty uncomfortable listening; arguments abound as to whether they're 'ironic', but I think the use of the word 'it' when referring to a human is registering pretty high on the moralrepugnomometer despite the best intentions of Messrs Difford and Tillbrook.
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"I like girls that wear Abercrombie & Fitch.
Chinese food makes me sick."
Condemnable.
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"I like girls that wear Abercrombie & Fitch.
Chinese food makes me sick."
Condemnable.
You have to at least appreciate his ability to handle the issue of diarrhea with such tact.
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"I like girls that wear Abercrombie & Fitch.
Chinese food makes me sick."
Condemnable.
Which part?
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Which part?
I've little respect for people who scoff at chinese food, natrually, and I've similar sentiment for those who aren't on the crux of the wave of the fashion world. Tasteless.
Spirit in the Sky was used on House last night. I wanna cover that song and improve it.