The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Sports & Leisure => Topic started by: Ben-San on April 29, 2008, 11:14:59 pm
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So this is not so much the kind of community that uses the Internet to talk about video games (being far more concerned with important things like pretend sports and online comic strips about cats). That's okay because I don't feel like having the kind of conversation about video games that communities formed to use the Internet to talk about video games have. Apparently we're hard up for posts and I know at least a couple other people here buy and play video games, and I've been playing a video game and I want to talk about it.
The video game is Persona 3: FES, it's getting zero advertising, and it is the best goddamn deal on the market right now. It's a rerelease-plus-expansion-pack of Persona 3, the most recent installment of one of my favorite series, and it's thirty bucks. You don't have to have played the earlier games in the series, just trust me that this is a really awesome RPG for thirty bucks.
I could ramble about it all day but I probably won't unless prompted.
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Platform? Setting? Frontal nudity?
Is a turn-based RPG? Because I gave up on Morrowind after about 5 minutes because of the combat system.
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Platform is PS2. Setting is approximately present-day Japan with the exception that at midnight time stops for all but a few people, who then experience an hour of Unpleasant Supernatural Events while the local high school turns into a bizarrely twisted tower. No frontal nudity, although there is a guy who wears his hair like Jesus and walks around shirtless if you're into that.
Exploration is semi-real-time; the enemy encounters move around the area, and you want to try to hit the enemy icon with your weapon before it spots you to get a combat advantage once the fight starts. The actual combat is turn-based and fairly straightforward; you control only one character directly, but can give the other characters general plans of action such as "you keep us healed, you wait for now, and you hit them with everything you've got".
The game takes place over the course of a year. There is a lot of Jungian psychology and tarot symbolism used in weird ways, the pragmatic upshot of which is that your superpowers' effectiveness depend less on how many monsters you've killed and more on what social links you've cultivated during the day and how. (Killing monsters does still help, though.)
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Platform is PS2.
Ah well. Considering my platform options are PC and SNES it was a long shot.
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Wow, that sounds really cool. My big turn off with turn-based combat was that it was mostly house-keeping. Telling characters "look, just don't let us die, and don't bother us. Papa's busy." sounds like much more fun. And increased combat prowess due to social interaction is so neat in a distinctly Japanese way. The vague Tarot symbolism is Japanese in a way that's not quite as cool. I keep seeing this technique where they'll bring up a theme or a set of symbols (angels, Catholicism, the moon, etc.) and then not really pursue them. If everyone on TeamFightGiantMonster wears a big silver cross on a chain, it's never explained, and they don't act as they would if the big silver crosses meant anything.
Anyway, it sounds like a neat game. All being Sarah plain and tall until the witching hour when you are Sarah cunning and beset at all sides. I'd throw in a quarter for that action. (But I probably wouldn't run out and buy a PS2, ah well.)
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The vague Tarot symbolism is Japanese in a way that's not quite as cool. I keep seeing this technique where they'll bring up a theme or a set of symbols (angels, Catholicism, the moon, etc.) and then not really pursue them. If everyone on TeamFightGiantMonster wears a big silver cross on a chain, it's never explained, and they don't act as they would if the big silver crosses meant anything.
The Tarot symbolism in Persona 3 is actually fairly functional in mythic/symbolic/whatever terms. Essentially, your supernatural ability is a "persona": a mythical figure or creature that corresponds to the face you put on to the world, which you're able to physically manifest under certain circumstances. Due to Reasons, your main character is able to change his Persona relatively easily, but the strength of a given Persona generally corresponds to how much you've developed that face of yourself. Each Persona corresponds to one of the major arcana of the tarot, some in obvious ways (Apollo is Sun, Pale Rider is Death, most angels are Justice) and some in nonobvious ways. Each of the characters you can create a social link with also corresponds to one of the major arcana, and although it's sometimes in ways that aren't immediately obvious, the connection becomes clear as you become closer to them. The more you develop a social link, the stronger the Personae of that arcana will be.
So, yeah, it's not really throwaway symbolism. The series creator is a big fan of Jung, and while it's not as all-pervading in this as in the earlier games, it does inform the game's construction.
Reflecting on it, I think one of the things I like best about this game is that it is intended to make you uncomfortable - not in a "OH LOOK HOW SHOCKING WE CAN BE" way, but in a quiet way that comes from reflecting on how someone who acts like a video game protagonist would fit into society after playing without noticing for long enough. A number of the social links will grow faster if you essentially act as an enabler to unhealthy behavior - from a typical video-gaming perspective, this is the "right way to play" but after a while it might grow on you that maybe it's not really the best thing to do.
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Any Football Manager fans? No?
Without a doubt the best (mostly) text-based game ever. Of sorts, if you like sports.
Sorry, didn't mean any rudeness: Ben, that sounds a lot like those new-fangled Mario games on the Game Boys, with the whole random-but-not-quite-random battle entry system (you can jump on enemies etc.) (maybe not so similar in other ways BUT) and I enjoyed it a lot, so maybe I will pick it up if it's lying in a bargain bin somewhere (I'm pretty sure it will, you get all sorts in shops here)
I think my tastes in games are depressingly mainstream for most internet people, the only games I play right now are Oblivion and Football Manager, and I only like the first one because of the stupidly excessive modding community.
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Any Football Manager fans? No?
Without a doubt the best (mostly) text-based game ever, you can shove the Hobbit up your arse.
Sorry, didn't mean any rudeness: Ben, that sounds a lot like those new-fangled Mario games on the Game Boys, with the whole random-but-not-quite-random battle entry system (you can jump on enemies etc.) (maybe not so similar in other ways BUT) and I enjoyed it a lot, so maybe I will pick it up if it's lying in a bargain bin somewhere (I'm pretty sure it will, you get all sorts in shops here)
I've got a friend who's a huge Football Manager fan. I'm not enough of a sports-type to be interested, though.
Being able to do a little semi-actiony bit on the field to get an advantage in the start of a turn-based fight is becoming relatively common these days. I wouldn't expect to find it in bargain bins, since this company doesn't tend to print huge runs, but it's being sold new at half the price of most PS2 games anyway. (Here, at least, dunno about its European release.)
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I've got a friend who's a huge Football Manager fan. I'm not enough of a sports-type to be interested, though.
Being able to do a little semi-actiony bit on the field to get an advantage in the start of a turn-based fight is becoming relatively common these days. I wouldn't expect to find it in bargain bins, since this company doesn't tend to print huge runs, but it's being sold new at half the price of most PS2 games anyway. (Here, at least, dunno about its European release.)
Well this game shop in the locality tends to (probably illegally) acquire games released solely in US/Japan on import and sell them for pretty cheap, either way I'll keep an eye out for it, as that does seem a pretty good deal for what you (And I trust your opinion) reckon is a pretty awesome game. Thankyou!
Also, it may have seemed I might have directed the 'shove the hobbit up your arse' comment towards you, which is not the case at all. I haven't played it even so a pretty poor choice of words to be honest, duly amended.
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Wait, there was hobbit-arse-up-shoving? I missed that and now it's edited out. No offense taken, but now I'm mildly perplexed.
I really want to know what the hell it was supposed to mean now. I can sort of guess, and if it's in the direction I'm thinking it's probably justified (since I'm an overweight video-game-playing D&D-playing Tolkien-reading comic-book-illegally-acquiring neckbeard), but I'm mostly puzzled.
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Wait, there was hobbit-arse-up-shoving? I missed that and now it's edited out. No offense taken, but now I'm mildly perplexed.
I really want to know what the hell it was supposed to mean now. I can sort of guess, and if it's in the direction I'm thinking it's probably justified (since I'm an overweight video-game-playing D&D-playing Tolkien-reading comic-book-illegally-acquiring neckbeard), but I'm mostly puzzled.
No no no! That was exactly what I was not doing!
I called Football Manager the best text-based game ever, and then (for japes) insulted another famous text-based game. In this case, 'the Hobbit'. In Britain at least, when comparing some stuff and one is better than the other you tell the lesser one to be shoved up someone's arse.
For example: Young Americans by David Bowie is the best white-soul album ever, you can shove Van Morrison up your arse!
The 'you' doesn't mean anyone in particular, it's just a figure of speech like.
Basically I was saying Football Manager is awesome and games such as The Hobbit (which no-one here may have even heard of) is a mere pretender to the crown of text-based games, that's all.
I'm sorry if I'm over explaining, I just hate the idea that I've been giving the wrong end of the stick here, as you are awesome Ben-San.
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In a hole in
the ground someone's ass there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.
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Around here, if you want to take the piss from someone who is looking for something, when asked if you know where such-and-such a thing is you reply, "You'd know where it was if it was shoved up your ass". Or, for emphasis, "shoved up your ass sideways".
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I've always heard the phrase "shove it up your ass" used to convey anger and resentment towards either the object or the person who is being directed to do the shoving.
As in, on terminating one's employment, "You can take this job and shove it up your ass."
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Or, if you're The Rock, "I'll take that hobbit, shine that sum' bitch up real nice, turn it sideways, and shove it straight up your candy ass."
Although what he would be doing reading our little board I haven't the faintest idea.
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For example: Young Americans by David Bowie is the best white-soul album ever, you can shove Van Morrison up your arse!
you did NOT just diss on Van Morrison.
you did not.
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An explanation of some slang!
Ohh. For the record I didn't feel particularly insulted even thinking it was the other thing; I take a certain amount of pride in my metaphorical neckbeard (also in my literal one).
I think if I'd actually seen the text "Football Manager is the best approximately-text-based-game (you can shove The Hobbit up your ass)" I would've gotten the gist. However, I guess I am the sort who when seeing something about hobbits being shoved up asses assumes the worst.
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The real question is, would we rather shove a hobbit, The Hobbit or The Hobbit up our arses?
Actually, no, it isn't. That's an easy question.
Forget I (internet) spoke.
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Or, if you're The Rock, "I'll take that hobbit, shine that sum' bitch up real nice, turn it sideways, and shove it straight up your candy ass."
Although what he would be doing reading our little board I haven't the faintest idea.
Probably telling all to have a nice tall frosty glass of shut the-hell-up juice, take a ride down Jabroni Ave., check into the Smackdown Hotel, and to know our role and shut our mouths.
As one of the millions (and millions) of the Rock's fans, I've gotta say I liked him better when he stuck to rasslin'.
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As on of the millions (and millions) of the Rock's fans, I've gotta say I liked him better when he stuck to rasslin'.
Or at least cutting promos. His HOF speech was good, even it if did piss people off.
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I've always heard the phrase "shove it up your ass" used to convey anger and resentment towards either the object or the person who is being directed to do the shoving.
When I was temping many years ago, I pulled something off the fax machine and took it to the intended recipient. "Hey Paul, this fax came in for you. Want do you want me to do with it?"
His reply was "I want you to roll it up into a little tube and shove it up your ass."
(Being relatively new there, I was somewhat taken aback. But that's just how he was and he actually meant nothing personal by it.)
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you did NOT just diss on Van Morrison.
you did not.
Are you kidding, he's my favourite guy ever.
Saw him perform in the local Jazz festival recently, and tomorrow I will be playing a jazz-ensemble rendition of Moondance at said festival.
As well a James Bond song
Also, I'm glad you understand Ben-San (and envy your ability to grow a neckbeard), but I must also apologise for quite catastrophically de-railing your thread.
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Also, I'm glad you understand Ben-San (and envy your ability to grow a neckbeard), but I must also apologise for quite catastrophically de-railing your thread.
If I wanted to post a thread about a video game and not have it end up being about Van Morrison and hobbit-ass-shoving there are plenty of venues already on the Internet for such a thing.
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..."Hey Paul, this fax came in for you. Want do you want me to do with it?"
His reply was "I want you to roll it up into a little tube and shove it up your ass."
Yep, that's the correct application. It takes skill to pull it off without prompting a fight.
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I am so "eh" on Van Morrison that I have never taken the time to dig any deeper.
Sell me. Sell me on this dude belonging even in the same ballpark as El Thin White Duke.
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I am so "eh" on Van Morrison that I have never taken the time to dig any deeper.
Sell me. Sell me on this dude belonging even in the same ballpark as El Thin White Duke.
Read this (http://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/~murray/astral.html) right now.
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one of my future roommate is interesting in that basically all he listens to is older avant-garde noisy stuff (john cage etc), surf rock, country, and Van Morrison.
Bowie almost never does anything for me.
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I am so "eh" on Van Morrison that I have never taken the time to dig any deeper.
Sell me. Sell me on this dude belonging even in the same ballpark as El Thin White Duke.
Van Morrison is one of the few music-men who really make me feel. Astral Weeks is an absolutely astounding album, and that piece says a lot more about it than I ever could.
The Bowsta is another one of those men, right up until Ashes to Ashes nearly every song he did, no matter how superficial it would sound done by someone else, has a kind of 'Bowie-ness' that is instantly appealing.
Both possessing great voices and backing bands too, which are the real clinchers.
ALSO: Van Morrison is the only white guy I've ever heard who could really, really do soul. Shane McGowan agrees with me.
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ALSO: Van Morrison is the only white guy I've ever heard who could really, really do soul.
I will be able to die happy once someone explains this phenomenon to me. What the hell does it mean for someone to sound "white?"
I can pick it up within a second of listening, but I can't tell you at all what it means. This is why I don't like Nerdcore hip hop, for instance. Or "Mr Sandman."
What is it about Whititude which makes us so apparently unfunky? The book The Autograph Man, in which the main guy is writing a book of what is Goyish and what is Jewish, makes me think it's not a Black/White thing as much as a Westernized White Protestant/Not thing.
I mean, I guess all I have to fall back on is the whole repressed emotional lifestyle which is our heritage? I am thinking about how Japanese pop music, also, sounds very White to me. Whereas a majority of the other cultures in the world, which seem much Louder and less embarrassed to be alive in terms of their day-to-day activities, do not sound White.
I feel like I am skirting around the edges of what it is OK to say, and skirting around the edges of something I'm missing which explains this.
also: Van Morrison was the first music I heard in the world. Not in any kind of weird metaphorical way, in a way where my mom wouldn't listen to anything but Moondance at the time of my birth.
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I will be able to die happy once someone explains this phenomenon to me. What the hell does it mean for someone to sound "white?"
I can pick it up within a second of listening, but I can't tell you at all what it means. This is why I don't like Nerdcore hip hop, for instance. Or "Mr Sandman."
Exactly, this is what I mean. I know I'm straying dangerously close to racism here, but Van Morrison is one of the few white men I can listen to singing and 'imagine' it coming from a black soul singer in the mould of Al Green or Marvin Gaye DESPITE the fact that his accent is in reality very different from them.
This might just be some sort of psychological thing, though. It's an undeniably widespread cliche that, true or not, black men have more musical 'soul' than white men, and so naturally we subconsciously consider this when listening to music. It's like, if I have already decided I don't like a band, it's very difficult for me to like the song, as I've already reached a subconscious conclusion and with music being so subjective it of course actually DOES change my opinion of the song for the worse.
So, when I listen to Mr Marvin Gaye, I've already reached a musical conclusion that it is going to be 'properly' soulful due to all those cliches, and this is how I consider the music from then on.
As for Van Morrison; I actually thought he was black when I first listened to him, for whatever reason, and the fact that there is another cliche backing this up (Van Morrison is one of the few white men that sounds 'soulful' enough to sound 'black') reinforces this.
Daniel, if this is true (that our subconscious feelings on music influence it hugely), then it would explain white 'lack of soul'. White middle-class American and Japanese society has always been stereotypically restrained, and this probably makes us feel that about the music. It's not just in terms of colour, of course; the Irish are stereotypically exuberant and most people I know feel Irish music sounds exuberant.
There is so much further to go with this, but it strays into racial stereotyping and I need to tidy my room so I think I will leave it for others if they want.
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If I wanted to post a thread about a video game and not have it end up being about Van Morrison and hobbit-ass-shoving there are plenty of venues already on the Internet for such a thing.
This post made my day, and I almost missed it because I didn't think I needed to read a thread about a video game. You'd think I'd have learned this lesson uncounted times by now.
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In a hole in the ground someone's ass there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.
Oh god, and this made something else entirely out of my day...
Do carry on.