Print Page - Euro 2008 (Football)

Trivial Pursuits => Sports & Leisure => Topic started by: Drygioni on May 08, 2008, 09:40:06 pm

Title: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on May 08, 2008, 09:40:06 pm

In about a month's time, the second greatest sporting tournament in the world is about to begin.

This can be the Official Thread, if enough people are interested then I will keep this going.

(Hilariously yet) Tragically England failed to qualify, due to a lot of shit stuff. Crap manager, lazy players, losing to Croatia at home..

So I am supporting Spain. Lots of good players, crazy curmudgeonly manager, perennial underachievers.

And none of the other British teams qualified, so I've got to cast my net further adrift.

What about you guys?

(Anticipates this thread's vanishment into obscurity)

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Ruta Bagas on May 08, 2008, 10:27:38 pm

Euro 2008 starts almost exactly as my exams finish. I do like a bit of good timing.

In England's absence, I'm considering rooting for either Portugal and the Netherlands in recognition of the unashamed violence of their last World Cup match. Because for someone who doesn't really care about football that much, it was fine entertainment in its tawdry way.

And let's face it, it's got to be the Netherlands, partly because they're Dutch and partly because there's no better name on Earth than "Vennegoor of Hesselink".

(I'm a disgrace to the national pastime.)

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: littlefallsmets on May 08, 2008, 10:35:51 pm

Like all good liberal Americans, all I really root for is that the ensuing riots are regionally based instead of ethno-racially based and for ESPN to not try and pretend that we care by showing anything about it other than maybe if someone scores a goal with his face, then they could show that for two seconds and make a joke about the guy's last name and then move onto the Brewers-Marlins highlight or whatever.

Those are my only two hosss in the field.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on May 08, 2008, 11:24:12 pm

Quote from: littlefallsmets on May 08, 2008, 10:35:51 pm

Like all good liberal Americans, all I really root for is that the ensuing riots are regionally based instead of ethno-racially based and for ESPN to not try and pretend that we care by showing anything about it other than maybe if someone scores a goal with his face, then they could show that for two seconds and make a joke about the guy's last name and then move onto the Brewers-Marlins highlight or whatever.

Those are my only two hosss in the field.

Sigh.

It seems I will never win you over to the beautiful game, LFM.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on May 08, 2008, 11:28:32 pm

Quote from: Ruta Bagas on May 08, 2008, 10:27:38 pm

Euro 2008 starts almost exactly as my exams finish. I do like a bit of good timing.

In England's absence, I'm considering rooting for either Portugal and the Netherlands in recognition of the unashamed violence of their last World Cup match. Because for someone who doesn't really care about football that much, it was fine entertainment in its tawdry way.

And let's face it, it's got to be the Netherlands, partly because they're Dutch and partly because there's no better name on Earth than "Vennegoor of Hesselink".

(I'm a disgrace to the national pastime.)

Yes, I am the same regarding the exam situation. Wayy.

Also, yes, "Vennegoor of Hesselink" is indeed the best surname ever. The Dutch in general are great though, it's ridiculous how such a small largely 'middle-class' nation can produce such a dazzling array of football talent.

But yes, the violence. Football would not be football without it's ridiculous handbags incidents. The pseudo-tribal hatred violence incidents, not so good.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: CortJstr on May 09, 2008, 12:09:36 am

I normally say that I only watch scripted sports, but since ESPN just hired Jonathan Coachman (http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/profiles/j/jonathan-coachman.html) I'm not sure sure anymore.

I also had no idea until just now that that's his real name. That's actually pretty cool, if for no other reason than the built-in nickname.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: jaydub on May 09, 2008, 12:22:52 am

Quote from: CortJstr on May 09, 2008, 12:09:36 am

I normally say that I only watch scripted sports...

Is that like Olympic Ice Dancing?

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on May 09, 2008, 12:26:58 am

Quote from: Asherdan on May 08, 2008, 11:47:16 pm

Dudes, I am interested. If only in hopes of another maniac dispensing headbutts.

I'll let you know.

Headbutt Highlight of the season so far, though, due to sheer comedy value (watch the guy who gives the headbutt): http://youtube.com/watch?v=z3FIYguDqvc (http://youtube.com/watch?v=z3FIYguDqvc)
(Link broken, search 'nani headbutt' on youtube, should get something)

This (http://youtube.com/watch?v=zGplCUlBCtw) may take your fancy for now.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: CortJstr on May 09, 2008, 12:55:50 am

Quote from: jaydub on May 09, 2008, 12:22:52 am

Quote from: CortJstr on May 09, 2008, 12:09:36 am
I normally say that I only watch scripted sports...

Is that like Olympic Ice Dancing?

That's not a sport! Anything without objective scoring is an athletic competition. I meant like sports movies and wrestling.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: littlefallsmets on May 09, 2008, 03:29:13 am

Quote from: JudyIsADickSlap

It seems I will never win you over to the beautiful game, LFM.

Oh, the beautiful game has me already.

The game of ball that they call base.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Carlos del Vaca on May 09, 2008, 04:49:20 am

SCOTLAND, BITCHES!

Oh wait, they're not in it. Um... I dunno.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Arachno-capitalist on May 09, 2008, 05:01:40 am

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5e/Trix_and_Flix.jpg/200px-Trix_and_Flix.jpg)

The two official mascots for UEFA Euro 2008, were named after a vote from the public of the two host nations, the options were:

* Zagi and Zigi
* Flitz and Bitz
* Trix and Flix

After receiving 36.3% of the vote, Trix and Flix were chosen. "I am sure the mascots and their names will become a vital part of the understanding of the whole event," said Christian Mutschler, who is the tournament director for Switzerland

Yikes. Well I guess Ill be cheering for Germany. And by cheering i mean if i hear somewhere that they won, ill nod with satisfaction.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: littlefallsmets on May 09, 2008, 05:06:21 am

They... didn't look enough like characters from some kind of superhero-themed twink porn and they had to name them Flix and Trix?

I mean. Yeah.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on May 09, 2008, 06:59:27 pm

Quote from: littlefallsmets on May 09, 2008, 05:06:21 am

They... didn't look enough like characters from some kind of superhero-themed twink porn and they had to name them Flix and Trix?

I mean. Yeah.

Bless the Europeans.

Also, POLITICAL footballing japes:

The current mayor of London makes the tackle which wins him the votes of youths all over the city (http://youtube.com/watch?v=uOivzoRc0I8&feature=related)

Two pages already!

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Ruta Bagas on May 09, 2008, 07:05:12 pm

You know, if he'd judged that just slightly worse he could have done himself some serious harm.

Life's full of disappointments.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Golfhaus on May 10, 2008, 12:05:03 am

There is one super-hot thing about association football that I adore, and that is the steadfast refusal of the world's governing bodies to cave in to what I'm sure is a lot of pressure from American television to allow commercial breaks during the action, or even worse, play stoppage in order to squeeze those commercials in. I mean, the Olympics are holding events at some ungodly hour like 6 a.m. so that American television can broadcast them live to the Eastern time zone without tape delay, since in this Internet-laden world, no one's watching tape delay shit anymore.

America seems to perk up its ears slightly about soccer when it's World Cup time, but all the other tournaments gather no interest at all. I loved it in college, because it was a weird sport to the rest of the people around me, like Aussie Rules and rugby and team handball. Now, though, I've fallen victim to the same problems with the game that most of us in Amurricah have with it: Too Long, Not Enough Scoring.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Arachno-capitalist on May 10, 2008, 12:13:12 am

One the most all american of sports, NASCAR runs complete with no commercials, and there is no scoring, and very little action. Commercial advertisements are worked in in creative ways - which is the wave of the future.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: CortJstr on May 10, 2008, 12:15:21 am

Quote from: Arachno-capitalist on May 10, 2008, 12:13:12 am

One the most all american of sports, NASCAR runs complete with no commercials, and there is no scoring, and very little action. Commercial advertisements are worked in in creative ways - which is the wave of the future.

Yeah, but when's the last time a football player burst into flame?

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Golfhaus on May 10, 2008, 12:22:22 am

Quote from: Arachno-capitalist on May 10, 2008, 12:13:12 am

One the most all american of sports, NASCAR runs complete with no commercials, and there is no scoring, and very little action. Commercial advertisements are worked in in creative ways - which is the wave of the future.

Wait, what NASCAR are you watching? Because the NASCAR that I watch is chocked FULL of commercials, usually coming back with the cars going a lot slower than I remember them going when the break started and an announcer calmly saying, "The caution is out for the 7th time today after a wreck involving six cars..." In fact, the #1 complaint of NASCAR viewers is that there are Too Many Damn Commercials, sometimes as often as every six minutes or so. NBC's coverage is particularly reviled for this. Now the Indianapolis 500 gets it right, where they splitscreen the commercials with live action and will pull back as soon as something newsworthy happens. I'd be willing to root for a Hendrick team if NASCAR started doing that.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Arachno-capitalist on May 10, 2008, 12:34:16 am

Maybe Im just thinking of the Indy 500 or something. I remember a bunch of racecar fans talking at dinner about how they were taking out commercials and instead working in split screen ads, more "sponsored" features, things like that.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on May 10, 2008, 01:53:07 am

Quote from: Golfhaus on May 10, 2008, 12:05:03 am

There is one super-hot thing about association football that I adore, and that is the steadfast refusal of the world's governing bodies to cave in to what I'm sure is a lot of pressure from American television to allow commercial breaks during the action, or even worse, play stoppage in order to squeeze those commercials in.

Some stuff which may be interesting:

Firstly, you know those infamous European soccer riots? That is what would happen if stuff like this came in. Football's real fanbase has a deep seated hatred of this kind of thing.

Secondly, the head of UEFA, the European football organisation (and consequently a massively important one), is an ex-player himself. Lots of the people at the top in football really DO love football, and any who are blatantly commercially-minded are hounded and harried like nothing else. Which leads me onto:

Recently the English Football Association proposed a '39th game' (as opposed to the normal 38-game season). This would entail making use of the MASSIVE Premiership global audience; the amount of people who watched Manchester United Vs Arsenal recently was estimated at 1,000,000,000 people. A random pairing of two Premier League clubs would play out an extra fixture in some foreign city, and the bucks would (potentially lucratively) roll in.

People here went mental. Not only is the idea inherently flawed (possibly unfairness of pairings, Wigan vs Derby attracting no-one etc.), but it really bit at the heart of every football fan here. For a start, it is the English Premier League...

Although the game of football in England today is undeniably pumped full of money and hype, there is a real romance about it. For most men in England it is absolutely central to our lives, and I have felt that NOTHING compares to the feeling of a full, swaying, singing crowd at match day, or a underdog win, or a Champions League win in the final from 3-0 down... The more it is explicitly marketed as a commercial thing, the more it dies, and something irreplaceable is lost.

Sorry for rambling. Basically: the level of commercial interest will never compare to what you get in America, just different cultures.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 16, 2008, 01:23:39 am

Just a quick update to let you know THIS IS THE BEST fuck*ng SPORTING EVENT IN THE WORLD

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: littlefallsmets on June 16, 2008, 01:26:16 am

...may I ask what brought this on?

Did someone score a goal or something?

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 16, 2008, 01:40:10 am

Quote from: littlefallsmets on June 16, 2008, 01:26:16 am

...may I ask what brought this on?

Did someone score a goal or something?

(The epic inter-sport battle continues)

Hush! Always so quick to speak, LFM! (Good joke though)

Basically, it's been a fuck*ng awesome tournament. I won't bore you with the details but there's been just the right amount of upsets, late, late comebacks and sexy passing football.

Today, like, the Czech Republic were 2-0 up on Turkey. No problem, game won. BUT in the dying minutes Turkey scored three goals, in the meantime contriving to have their own goalkeeper sent off for throwing a 6'8" man to the ground by pushing him in the chest.

Plus, Italy, France and Germany have suffered a hat-trick of humiliating losses, two of which were inflicted by footballing gods Holland. (Or the Netherlands, if you will.) What is particularly awesome is that the Germans lost to Poland, and the Polish tabloids turned it into a whole REVENGE FOR 1939! thing.

Oh, and the Polish Prime Minister threatened to kill a referee for making a big decision against Poland.

Emotions are running a little high throughout Europe at the moment, it's spreading over the Channel.

Hence my ejaculatory post.

EDIT: No headbutts/proper fights yet, but two players on the same team leapt into each other head first, and somehow ended up spinning away from each other like helicopters.

One had to continue with a massive bandage on his head, other was taken to hospital but he's probably alright.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: littlefallsmets on June 16, 2008, 04:37:55 am

Quote from: JudyIsADickSlap

the Polish Prime Minister threatened to kill a referee for making a big decision against Poland

Oh man, there's just SO much material there... so many jokes to make...

Did he threaten to push him out the screen door of a submar-

No no no, too goddamned easy.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Victoria Waterfield on June 16, 2008, 05:48:23 am

Quote from: JudyIsADickSlap on June 16, 2008, 01:40:10 am

What is particularly awesome is that the Germans lost to Poland, and the Polish tabloids turned it into a whole REVENGE FOR 1939! thing.

What is particularly baffling about this is that, in fact, Poland lost to Germany.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 16, 2008, 11:58:45 am

Quote from: Victoria Waterfield on June 16, 2008, 05:48:23 am

What is particularly baffling about this is that, in fact, Poland lost to Germany.

EURGH

Crap, to be fair that was written at 1:40 AM, and I hadn't slept on Saturday.

Yes, sorry.

I originally intended to show the fervent enthusiasm of the whole thing by Poland turning their match against Germany into a 'REVENGE FOR 1939!' thing pre-match. It then all got mixed up in my head, where Poland actually did win. When actually they lost, courtesy of two goals from a German player of Polish origin. Is life.

Damn you Miss Waterfield, this is pretty much the only topic on this forum I know about more than anyone else and you have to go and make me look silly. You can have this can if YOU DON'T DO IT AGAIN.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Arachno-capitalist on June 18, 2008, 03:18:29 pm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DICdXTPYgpA&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=DICdXTPYgpA&feature=related)
You guys sure like to trip over your own feet and cry about it a lot.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 18, 2008, 10:07:24 pm

Quote from: Arachno-capitalist on June 18, 2008, 03:18:29 pm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DICdXTPYgpA&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=DICdXTPYgpA&feature=related)
You guys sure like to trip over your own feet and cry about it a lot.

It is shameful! Blarrdy continentil wankurs

In all seriousness, it's because of football's foul system. In football, it is fairly easy to hurt or impede another player without the officials noticing, as long as he stays on his feet. It's sad, but often the only way a player can call attention to a foul is to provide some amount of exaggeration. It's sometimes really difficult for three men, one on each side and one in the middle of it all, to notice everything without the 'assistance of players', especially in a hectic game or in the middle of a crowd of players.

Now, this is kind of alright, pretty bad but understandable. It's just that this has become such a thing that it leads to outright diving to win free kicks etc., so rather than exaggerating the fact you've been fouled/nipple twisted/headbutted it's just plain deceit, because players recognise the difficult jobs referees have. It's shit, one of the worst things about football.

Comparing it to rugby is unfair. In rugby, you gain absolutely no advantage by lying on the floor or pretending to be hurt, for obvious reasons. In football, the sad truth is that you can.

THE ONLY PART YOU FIND RELEVANT: I hear that in 'American Rounders' they are introducing some sort of video replay to determine small margins of things that may not be immediately obvious. Well, if they introduced that in football and issued retrospective bans/cautions after a match for anyone caught diving during said match, it would eliminate it immediately.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: jaydub on June 25, 2008, 05:32:10 pm

A can to Judy for snide references to girly games.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 25, 2008, 09:23:49 pm

Quote from: jaydub on June 25, 2008, 05:32:10 pm

A can to Judy for snide references to girly games.

Good wasn't it?

(I don't have a fuck*ng clue what I did)

Judy's thoughts on the Turkey-Germany match this evening

moterhfucksing german wanekrss lcuky abastatds theyr shit adn don't desevrf the honuro of getygijgtothe fucing fuinal! whayt a fuck*ng liberty byebye tuekry yuve made me yhart sing

To summarise:

Quarter Finals

Portugall 2-3 Germany
Germany 3-2 Turkey
Croatia 1-1 Turkey(p)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FINAL Germany vs Spain or Russia

Holland 1-3 Russia(aet)
Russia ?-? Spain
(p)Spain 0-0 Italy

This my friends has been one tasty tournament, considered the best international tournament in around 20 years for some.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: jaydub on June 26, 2008, 12:02:34 am

Quote from: JudyIsADickSlap on June 25, 2008, 09:23:49 pm

Good wasn't it?

(I don't have a fuck*ng clue what I did)

"American Rounders", ftw

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Lister on June 26, 2008, 05:20:07 am

I have a friend who just returned from a trip in Austria and Germany playing club football. He had thought he would get to go see one of the games live, but tickets were going for 500 Euros or so. I did the math and that comes out to $8261498234604 dollars! That's crazy.

He apparently was not killed in a gigantic fan brawl, or at least not killed badly. So that's good.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Arachno-capitalist on June 26, 2008, 05:47:32 am

Quote from: Lister on June 26, 2008, 05:20:07 am

I have a friend who just returned from a trip in Austria and Germany playing club football. He had thought he would get to go see one of the games live, but tickets were going for 500 Euros or so. I did the math and that comes out to $780 dollars! That's crazy.

He apparently was not killed in a gigantic fan brawl, or at least not killed badly. So that's good.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 26, 2008, 05:26:02 pm

Quote from: jaydub on June 26, 2008, 12:02:34 am

"American Rounders", ftw

Aww shucks, it's just common parlance here with us snooty English.

Lister, that is a shame about your friend.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: littlefallsmets on June 26, 2008, 07:12:11 pm

As a thought experiment on a day off from work, I just watched ten minutes of the European Soccer Championship semi-final and ten minutes of some sort of minor women's golf tour stop.

I am left with the feeling that... while the women's golf match was very boring, as least it was boring in a fashion that formed some sort of rudimentary narrative wherein concrete things that can be statistically analyzed occured.

The Asian lady with the nice butt hit the ball into the hole in three hits of the ball when the standard for the course was four and the white lady who looked like she prefers the company of other ladies hit her ball in with four hits... so the Asian lady was one point ahead of the white lady.

Whereas, in soccer, a bunch of sweaty guys kicked a ball around on their side for a while... something seemed like it was almost happening, someone kicked the ball hard... but then the other sweaty guys kicked it around on their side for a while.

Eventually, it almost looked like one guy was gonna take a shot on the other guy's goal but I guess he sort of slipped or something and it just dribbled into the goalie's hands whereupon he threw it nonchalantly back to his guys...

Whereupon, like, they kicked it around on their side for a while and I proceded to put on the Dodgers game before I clawed my goddamned eyes out.

I even played soccer for a few years as a child, you know, and I have never played golf on a full course in my life and...

I still have some kind of metric for what happened in the golf match and no such metric for the soccer match. The mildly attractive Korean lady is beating the lesbian by one point. Nothing, nothing, NOTHING goddamned happened in the soccer game at all.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 26, 2008, 09:38:09 pm

Quote from: littlefallsmets on June 26, 2008, 07:12:11 pm

pish and tish

You evidently missed the three goals then.

Seriously, this is such a fundamental difference in our appreciation of sports. I have watched American football, golf, Baseball, tennis, and find no enjoyment in any of them for exactly the reasons you do find enjoyment. Everything is split into little bite-sized chunks of action, which for me ruins any essence of the game having a narrative. Without meaning to make an overly favourable comparison, football and similar sports are like a good novel, or film; it is impossible to sum it up satisfyingly with statistics, bullet points and 'events'. You can't see it, and will understandably label me Monsieur Pretentious but football fans see a good game as a bildungsroman of sorts. If the game is the protagonist, things develop slowly, not always deliberately, but subtle changes in tempo, possession, etc. mean each game develops into something different and unique. But at times it can be hard to see what has happened concretely. You are of course an avid reader so you will probably HATE me for saying that.

A football fan would appreciate the build-up, the creation of half-chances, the brilliant creative pass that JUST didn't quite come off; to you this would just seem like aimless milling around. I'm sure baseball fans appreciate similarly subtle aspects of the sport that I do not, but in short I cannot enjoy something where you can learn EVERYTHING about the match from statistics. Feel free to counter-argument that point, but I cannot see how any form of 'narrative' can be applied to a baseball, or indeed, a golf game. It is bullet points.

OR: We have fundamental, cultural differences in our enjoyment of sport and I should let it lie. Cool?

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 26, 2008, 09:39:28 pm

Oh and:

Spain beat Russia 3-0! Who'd a think that.

Germany-Spain final.

If Spain bottle this my enjoyment of what has been an amazing tournament will be diminished somewhat.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: KeithHernandez on June 26, 2008, 10:33:55 pm

Man, baseball has a great narrative, you just don't get it in a way that LFM doesn't get football. Those other sports suck, you're right about that.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 26, 2008, 10:57:07 pm

Quote from: KeithHernandez on June 26, 2008, 10:33:55 pm

Man, baseball has a great narrative, you just don't get it in a way that LFM doesn't get football. Those other sports suck, you're right about that.

Yeah, that's fair to say, I had to go off on one a little bit because LFM is my sports nemesis and it wouldn't be sport without blinkered, unfounded generalisations and an attempt to wind up the opposition.

Quote from: Asherdan on June 26, 2008, 10:48:34 pm

Hah, university class needed, the cultural literacy of sport.

Yes!

Your point about the almosteses is the crux of it really. Baseball = guaranteed lots of good hits/catches etc. Basketball and Rugby/American Football = ridiculously high scoring. Golf = ALWAYS results in someone 'scoring'.

Football? Most of the time an average of two 'better-than-almosteses' (goals) are scored over 90 minutes. I can understand the frustration when you've grown up with more 'eventful' (not sarcastic) games in your blood.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: littlefallsmets on June 26, 2008, 11:30:41 pm

I missed the three goals... exactly because they came out of nowhere... is what I'm saying.

All I ask for, really, is a sense of progression, a sense of continuity.

There's no signifiers for progress in soccer... or hockey... and in basketball, scoring happens so often that the dial is kind of spun around that none of it means anything until the goddamned free throw shooting contest in the last two minutes.

But... okay.

I can turn a baseball game on and... there's two men on, one man out... it's the sixth so the starting pitcher isn't gonna be around much longer, a power hitter's coming up, it's a tight score, etc.

Similarly, football... it's 21-10 but the team that's losing is on the other team's 30 yard line, its 2nd and 3, they have a passing configuration on the field... etc.

There are markers between "scoring" and "not-scoring".

In soccer, there's a bunch of guys passing the ball around. Everyone once in a while, somebody slips or has a brain fart or there's a penalty of some sort and a guy actually has an open shot... most of which are still caught by the goalie... but then you quickly go back to a bunch of guys passing the thing around again.

There's no... definable steps between when something briefly very awesome happens and the 89 minutes and 45 seconds of a bunch of guys just passing the thing back and forth, waiting for the other team to briefly screw up.

And I just can't get my head around that being watchable.

I mean... "half-chances"? What does that even mean? A shot on goal where they really didn't have any chance of scoring but they kicked it anyway so that... uhm, like... there's another one of a small handful of stats to follow?

It kind of lays out exactly why I can't enjoy it all that much.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 26, 2008, 11:54:00 pm

Quote from: littlefallsmets on June 26, 2008, 11:30:41 pm

In soccer, there's a bunch of guys passing the ball around. Everyone once in a while, somebody slips or has a brain fart or there's a penalty of some sort and a guy actually has an open shot... most of which are still caught by the goalie... but then you quickly go back to a bunch of guys passing the thing around again.

But the passing is very enjoyable to watch when done right, it's not just the goals/fights/brain farts (has that officially replaced brainstorm?) that are exciting. Though, I think playing football helps here because then it is easier to understand the difficulty of what they're doing.

Quote

There's no... definable steps between when something briefly very awesome happens and the 89 minutes and 45 seconds of a bunch of guys just passing the thing back and forth, waiting for the other team to briefly screw up.

Well football isn't about waiting for the other team to mess up. These guys are paid millions a year, any mistakes they make are mostly caused by how brilliant/creative/battering-ram like the other team are. The reason Spain are through to the final is because their players are brilliant at keeping the ball (which is a joy to watch) while making the other team run around in circles trying to catch them. The Germans are through because of the (mostly) exemplary professional, ruthless attitude of the players when losing or winning. (And luck). Though I can see why you don't view it that way, as none of these things can be measured.

Quote

And I just can't get my head around that being watchable.

I would bring out the 'most popular sport' in the world chestnut, but there are plenty of popular things that are bad.

Quote

I mean... "half-chances"? What does that even mean? A shot on goal where they really didn't have any chance of scoring but they kicked it anyway so that... uhm, like... there's another one of a small handful of stats to follow?

Half-chances are generally ones which could only be put away by an ingenious piece of skill, and seeing that done is ecstasy. BUT a missed one shows that one team is getting in the positions to create these chances, and hence can be determined to be the better team at the time. It's all about the perceived ebb and flow, objectivity and interpretation, the beauty of football is the fact that the final score/possession stats/shots on goal mean nothing as to who was the better team.

That is of course your kryptonite, but it's my blowjob.

Quote

It kind of lays out exactly why I can't enjoy it all that much.

:( Then it is all in vain

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: littlefallsmets on June 27, 2008, 12:20:30 am

I don't know, though.

I certainly saw a bunch of guys passing back... and forth... and back... and forth. Sometimes passing up the field wherein you think they're going to try and score a goal and then... they're just kind of passing it back and forth in a different spot on the field.

What you're saying is that Spain passed the ball to each other so much that it confused Russia somehow and then they were finally able to kick a goal?

I've put it this way before but it is apt:

You are basically describing the act of watching two people who are very good at Pong play each other for an hour and a half... you don't even get a game controller just... booop... boop... boooop... boop... boop...

And then three times, in that hour and a half, a dude messes up and the other one scores.

Soccer is fun as all hell to play, don't get me wrong! I remember it fondly.

Maybe part of the problem is that they ARE so good at soccer and so... there's no mismatches to make things exciting, just immovable objects against unstoppable forces grinding away at each other except for three brief exciting slip-ups.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: CortJstr on June 27, 2008, 12:29:17 am

Not watching any unscripted sports I find this very amusing. Especially because 5-star/Match of the Year Contender wrestling matches are always described as "telling a story." Being somewhere between 10 and 100% scripted, depending on the partici#####' personal preferences, helps.

Also, for no particular reason, Shaolin Soccer was a badass soccer movie.

Quote from: littlefallsmets on June 27, 2008, 12:20:30 am

I don't know, though.

I certainly saw a bunch of guys passing back... and forth... and back... and forth. Sometimes passing up the field wherein you think they're going to try and score a goal and then... they're just kind of passing it back and forth in a different spot on the field.

What you're saying is that Spain passed the ball to each other so much that it confused Russia somehow and then they were finally able to kick a goal?

I think you just accidentally described pre-shot-clock basketball.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 27, 2008, 12:37:59 am

Quote from: littlefallsmets on June 27, 2008, 12:20:30 am

I don't know, though.

I certainly saw a bunch of guys passing back... and forth... and back... and forth. Sometimes passing up the field wherein you think they're going to try and score a goal and then... they're just kind of passing it back and forth in a different spot on the field.

I've put it this way before but it is apt:

You are basically describing the act of watching two people who are very good at Pong play each other for an hour and a half... you don't even get a game controller just... booop... boop... boooop... boop... boop...

The Pong thing is apt on a very basic level, I agree. Imagine Pong but with 11 players on each side, trying to look for openings in what is a very congested space and you can kind of see football.

But you could just say Baseball is the same. One paddle on a team hits it to the other, and this paddle has to to hit it back at a place the other paddles can't reach.

Basically, Pong is the square root of everything.

Quote

What you're saying is that Spain passed the ball to each other so much that it confused Russia somehow and then they were finally able to kick a goal?

Again, yes but no. Spain were constantly stretching the oppositions defenders by passing it, and if you do that enough you will fashion enough 'chances' to 'kick a goal'. It's more complex than that but I see where you are coming from.

Quote

Maybe part of the problem is that they ARE so good at soccer and so... there's no mismatches to make things exciting, just immovable objects against unstoppable forces grinding away at each other except for three brief exciting slip-ups.

It can apply, but not to the match today. Unless the teams are VERY evenly-matched, which is a rarity, one team tends to give way/get complacent and then things happen, as it did today when Spain finally got their asses in gear. And your point about mismatches is (I can for once safely say) inaccurate, nearly 90 percent of games a team plays are against opponents marginally stronger or weaker than it.

And, as Turkey have evidenced this tournament, football is surprisingly full of upsets.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: jaydub on June 27, 2008, 04:49:07 pm

Quote from: Asherdan on June 26, 2008, 10:48:34 pm

On the other hand, for American football I can still get jazzed about the skinny post that got broken up again because the free safety read it and stuck his nose in the flankers earhole and made a grown man cry blood and mommy.

Hah, university class needed, the cultural literacy of sport.

This is one of the big problems with televised football. Yes, a lot of action and tactics happen around the line, but some really good play happens in the defensive backfield that we never get to see. Of course, since the ball isn't actually in play in the immediate area, watching that part of the game might be like watching soccer - unless you're educated in routes, zones, and responsibilities you won't appreciate the cat and penis game that the receivers and d-backs are playing with each other. Its something I love about going to a football game in person - I get to watch that then. Its funny that some of the highlight hits you see on receivers are actually situations where the safety got out of position and has to shut the play down. Even though a spectacular hit is made, they've given up 15 yards and the offense has a new set of downs.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Carlos del Vaca on June 27, 2008, 07:17:36 pm

I am one of those rare peoples who likes both soccer and "traditional American" sports. When I was heavily into soccer a few years ago (i.e. before I had kids, and before the Nats came to town), many of my soccer friends copped this attitude that it was impossible to like both baseball and soccer. Bite me, says I.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 30, 2008, 06:52:22 pm

AND THE WINNERS ARE:

Champions of Europe

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!SPAIN!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!VAMOS ESPAÑA!!!!!!!!

PLAYER OF THE TOURNAMENT : XAVI HERNANDEZ
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/Davelestoner/xavihernandez.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/Davelestoner/SPAIN.gif)

TOP GOALSCORER : DAVID VILLA
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/Davelestoner/davidvilla.gif) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/Davelestoner/SPAIN.gif)

BEST PUNDIT : JUDY

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Golfhaus on June 30, 2008, 07:02:13 pm

And in one moment, Judy destroys all of his hard work in maybe, kinda-sorta, making some TOUAMBies like his favorite sport a little more (or dislike it a little less).

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 30, 2008, 07:06:07 pm

Aww christ that took me fuck*ng ages! I was hoping it would inject some COLOUR into the board.

You'd best be hoping they let me into university this year, you may get a lot more of this when I'm bored.

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Golfhaus on June 30, 2008, 11:00:23 pm

Also, shouldn't

Quote

!!!!!!!!VAMOS ESPAÑA!!!!!!!!

have been

Quote

¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡VAMOS ESPAÑA!!!!!!!!!!!

instead?

Title: Re: Euro 2008 (Football)
Post by: Drygioni on June 30, 2008, 11:16:38 pm

Quote from: Golfhaus on June 30, 2008, 11:00:23 pm

Also, shouldn't

have been

instead?

Yes, but I don't know how to do upside-down !'s

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Trivial Pursuits => Sports & Leisure => Topic started by: Drygioni on May 08, 2008, 09:40:06 pm