The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: wombat on May 23, 2009, 01:03:31 am
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I just heard Green Day on The Colbert Show. OK, yeah, I am so out of it that I never heard them before, big surprise.
I kind of liked them. What should I do about it? Should I better buy the new CD since the song they played was from that and maybe it's not the same as all the rest or what?
That lead singer though... you kids need to get your weird haircuts off of my lawn, or something.
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I just heard Green Day on The Colbert Show. OK, yeah, I am so out of it that I never heard them before, big surprise.
I kind of liked them. What should I do about it? Should I better buy the new CD since the song they played was from that and maybe it's not the same as all the rest or what?
That lead singer though... you kids need to get your weird haircuts off of my lawn, or something.
I'm not a huge Green Day fan but I have their singles and whatnot. I wasn't aware they had a new album until I saw Colbert. Their last album, American Idiot, was a rock opera intended to be listened to straight through. It was really well received critically but wasn't quite my thing. You'd probably like the single, Boulevard of Broken Dreams, though.
Oh, and just FYI, he's 37. I'm not sure if that makes the haircut thing better or worse.
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Oh, that is old enough to know better.
I'm going to try to forget that you told me that they made a rock opera, which is on the face of it even more annoying than the haircut, while at the same time remembering not to buy that album.
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I am basically anti Green Day because they started out as a self-consciously simplistic pop-punk band, graduated to the big money by recording a bunch of shitty prom theme-type songs and now that they are older and trying to be Significant, they are attempting to half-heartedly write about Significant Things but... like... they're a lot less annoying than their contemporaries and the people who later attempted to duplicate their schtick so it is hard to be too pissed off that they are successful.
I dislike Green Day but not actively so, if that makes any sense.
It's not like Fallout Boy on the Today Show where the audience definitely needs to be chemically castrated while the band is beaten to death by *****s.
Maybe vampire *****s.
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See, I am trying not to think about any of that. I heard a song, I liked the song. Can't life be that simple? If I had heard it on the radio and not seen the haircut, maybe. Sigh.
But see, what was nice about it, in fact, was that it was just a song. Nothing fancy about it.
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Sometimes a song is just a song.
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I was thinking about American Idiot the other day, and it made me realize that sometimes when we are young, we like things that maybe don't possess too much intrinsic artistic merit, and even if we develop good taste later in life, we cannot deny that those early not-so-good works were hugely influental to our development.
On a similar note, I was looking through one of my old Dilbert books recently and I could not bring myself to laugh or even smile at a single one of the jokes. Scott Adams is just kind of a hack, but I know that I had the exact opposite opinion at one time.
And I was thinking about Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and I just don't understand why anyone would ever watch that show, but at one time I didn't understand why anyone would not watch that show. I just... would not enjoy sitting down at a hypothetical table with Buffy Summers. You know the episode where Anya made an alternate timeline, and Buffy was grumpy and had a scar? I like that Buffy better now.
So, yeah, sometimes I can't tell if I'm having opinions, or if I've simply become a bitter misanthrope.
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I tried to get into Buffy as everyone told me "you would love it, Mike" and... upon discovering that I would have to watch every previous episode three or four times to understand what the hell was going on, I quickly gave up on that project. This seems to be a pattern with me: watered-down-nerdy pop culture explosion comes along, everyone tells me to get into it, it turns out to require weeks of homework to find out what the hell is going on, I end up watching a cartoon or a cooking show instead.
Name your deep-emersion television show and I've basically gone through that pattern.
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You know, though, sometimes old things don't work anymore because the culture has moved on and the context is so different. When Dilbert started, it really was edgy in comparison to other newspaper comics, but now we have so much else that's so much more out there that when you go back to the old ones, they seem laughably tame. And I just happened to watch the first few episodes of Buffy, which I had never seen before, and my thought was that I was really sorry I hadn't watched it back then. I'm sure that at the time it was the only thing like itself and it must have seemed amazing. But watching it now, it was no big deal.
This is the problem with being groundbreaking, once you've broke ground everyone else can follow and you're not special anymore.
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A bunch of my female friends have big girl-boners for Buffy and I hate it. Ughh.
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Wombat, you make an excellent point, that I had not thought of. It's similar to a half-formed thought I had while reading Sherlock Holmes, that I had seen the same kind of story hundreds of times before, and when I figured out that it was on CSI, I realized that I was reading what amounted to Gil Grissom's great-grandfather. Except many times better written, and a hundred years earlier.
So yeah, context is important.
Education.
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Oh yeah, Sherlock Holmes is a perfect example. That kind of story had basically just been invented so probably every trick he played in them was new, but now, we've read a hundred years' worth of it. I'm glad I read them when I was a teenager, because there is no way to read them with fresh eyes unless you are like twelve years old so you just don't have that much experience of reading yet, you know?
I was thinking after I wrote that - because this started as a thread about music - this doesn't seem to happen with music? Perhaps because if you listen to, like, The Beatles for the first time, you're well aware that they recorded in a certain period and we're more aware that music comes in historical periods?
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I think it also tends to happen with music, but maybe that is because I have read too many books about music. I have always felt a certain pleasure in knowing "a lot of bands sound like ____ or do ____, but these guys did it first." I always like playing something really out there and saying "guess what year this came out!"
People are not normally as interested in the answer as I want them to be, though.
I am really interested in the different ways mediums (saying "media" here feels wrong, because of the way people use "the media") are appreciated. Based on both things like "it is much harder for a static visual image to make you want to puke than a loud noise," and things like "people think of literature as having more legitimacy as an art form than pop music."
I also get accused a lot of paying too much attention to context and not enough to the work/piece itself.
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I was thinking after I wrote that - because this started as a thread about music - this doesn't seem to happen with music? Perhaps because if you listen to, like, The Beatles for the first time, you're well aware that they recorded in a certain period and we're more aware that music comes in historical periods?
The reason it doesn't happen with The Beatles is that they are objectively awesome.
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Buffy's a pretty good show for a couple seasons. Basically if you have a lot of time to waste there's worse ways to waste it than downloading some Buffy starting from the beginning and watching it until it stops being interesting to you.
This might be early. Doesn't mean it's a bad show or you're a bad watcher, just didn't click. That can happen sometimes.
I like American Idiot. I also like Kilroy Was Here, Operation Mindcrime, and The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars. The point is I like narrative albums. I don't think American Idiot is as good as Ziggy Stardust but it's a pretty good listen at.
Edit: Also Imaginos.
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Last night I saw Girl Shy a silent movie made in 1924. It was one of the best fuck*ng moves I have ever seen. I don't even know if it was groundbreaking (probably, I mean how could it not right?), but I do know that it was awesome in every respect. Harold Lloyd is a comic genius. 10 Wayans Brothers would just about have as much talent as Harold Lloyd's pinkie toe.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Dilbert sucks.
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Last night I saw Girl Shy a silent movie made in 1924. It was one of the best fuck*ng moves I have ever seen. I don't even know if it was groundbreaking (probably, I mean how could it not right?), but I do know that it was awesome in every respect. Harold Lloyd is a comic genius. 10 Wayans Brothers would just about have as much talent as Harold Lloyd's pinkie toe.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Dilbert sucks.
You should check this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SRhjz1pYg8) out. Guy is like a comic genius + Jackie Chan.
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everybody knows about buster keaton and charlie chaplin, but harold lloyd is largely forgotten. he blew off part of his thumb with a prop bomb with a fast fuse, and made himself a glove with a thumb in it so he could continue to be on screen. his characters and stories are unique among the silent film greats - very american dream, very work brings wealth makes happy, the villain is the threat of poverty or socialism, for the day very conservative-politics-feeling. and his stunts, man, his stunts. if buster keaton is the jackie chan of silent films, harold lloyd is harrison ford. yes, harrison ford still usually does all his own stunts. but harold lloyd also wrote, directed, and produced his own shit. suck that egg, harrison.
there's a great documentary on harold lloyd called "the third genius" that's worth tracking down for a few bucks. i saw it before dvds existed, back when vhs was king. very very fun stuff.
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I've seen the General, it's a wonderful film. Girl Shy was my first Harold Lloyd film and I was blown away by it.
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Of the three my tastes still run to Buster. Then Lloyd, then Chaplin.
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Also -- a little bit later, but what about that dang ol' W.C. Fields?
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My fav silent film is King Vidor's "The Crowd." it is very anti American dream. And it made me tear up a little
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We talked about music for about 3 post then said fuck it and switched to silent films.
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I went through a month or so where I was back to my old music frenzy, lately it is chilled out. I just want to listen to Sugarcube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO4BNIrDKRc&feature=related) over and over. I have such a weakness for like... generic "indie rock" songs.
Also listening to a lot of MSTRKRFT/Daft Punk/Justice type stuff. Because, as you guys know, all I do is party. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXvYZzXzyD0)
I am not a huge fan of the rapping, but those beats man.
Fav discovery so far: this song. (http://hypem.com/track/791147/Snob+Scrilla+-+Heartbreak+Scorsese+96+Bulls+Remix)
I love crunchy synth lines.
I guess it has more power when played very loud, though. In a small apartment, where I am dancing very hard.
Also lately: Bob Dylan.
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We talked about music for about 3 post then said fuck it and switched to silent films.
There ought to be some kind of award for a thread that starts about Green Day on the first page and Harold Lloyd on the second. "Wandering" doesn't begin to cover it.
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Also lately: Bob Dylan.
New Morning was just remastered and re-released. I'm not the best judge of whether remastering is ever necessary, but if you don't already own it, it's a good chance to pick up one of his more overlooked works. It's not his best but has some great moments. Bob Dylan and the Band's Basement Tapes was also just remastered. That's a great record. It is missing a lot of really good material from those sessions, and I recently downloaded Tree With Roots, which has a lot more, and is very worthwhile. I have spent more time with Dylan than almost anyone else, except for, recently, Tom Waits.
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New Morning is fuck*ng awful. Besides the Big Lebowski song it sucks. I spent five years of my life listening to bob dylan nearly exclusively, and, yeah, its subjective, but stick to his first (bob dylan) through Nashville Skyline (really blonde on blonde but those last two are like later Dylan mixed with funny dylan. he is no longer a poet(for the most part), but he knows it, and therefore doesn't blow it. not like later in his career.) There is no need for any other Dylan, especially Desire. Oh get , Tarantula too, but that was during this period, just a book instead of album.
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Interesting. The only song I hate on the album is the first track, If Not For You. Desire isn't terrible either, though I hate Hurricane. It's at least worth it for Isis (though there are probably better recordings of the song). I prefer mid-60s Dylan over any of his other work by a long shot but he has at least one good album in every decade. I really don't like his first album and the rest of his pre-electric folk albums are hit or miss.
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I like all his albums. Self-Portrait is excellent. I quite like Empire Burlesque. There are things I enjoy about Under the Red Sky. I like quite a few things about Saved. I bought the recent "Dylan and the Dead" remaster and judged it "not bad".
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There is no need for any other Dylan,
Wait, this can't be right. I remember Blood on the Tracks as being a fantastic album - and that's when I feel about Dylan basically what this character in this Daniel Pinkwater book I am reading just said - "I can't describe it other than to say that I'd rather be shot through the head than listen to it again." So, that one must really be awfully good, you know?
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Infidels is a good album. Love and Theft is a good album.
Haven't listened to the new one yet.
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so far: highway 61 revisited, bringing it all back home, freewheelin', self-titled first one.
I like some of it very much, but what I have heard of Blonde on Blonde hasn't done a lot for me. I think I need to do this thing chronologically.
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so far: highway 61 revisited, bringing it all back home, freewheelin', self-titled first one.
I like some of it very much, but what I have heard of Blonde on Blonde hasn't done a lot for me. I think I need to do this thing chronologically.
But Blonde on Blonde is the best one. Listen to Visions of Johanna 35 times and get back to us.
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yes, also Absolutely Sweet Marie.
and the rest of his pre-electric folk albums are hit or miss.
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That is interesting to me. Weird, I guess.
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i just want to listen to the song "highway 61 revisited" over and over.
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But Blonde on Blonde is the best one. Listen to Visions of Johanna 35 times and get back to us.
I like Highway 61 about twice as much as Blonde on Blonde.
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At one point I liked Highway 61 better, then judged them as equal, and now prefer Blonde on Blonde.
Not to stay too on topic, Sunrise (1927) is one of my favorite movies ever, and I think it's still available on DVD.
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Modern Times (http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/11277554/review/11286830/modern_times) is a fantastic album. Coincidentally Modern Times (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=893627879073510155) is a fantastic silent movie.
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Listening to people talk about what Bob Dylan is better is like listening to people talk about which is better, eating a dog turd in a waffle cone or in a sandwich.
Dammit, these are both terrible things and should be avoided whenever possible.
Not which is WORSE and so the other is slightly less bad but... BETTER. I mean, googlemoogles.
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I just figured it out. You moved to L.A. to be closer to Axl Rose.
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I just figured it out. You moved to L.A. to be closer to Axl Rose.
Well, to be fair, the man's name is an anagram for "oral sex". Who wouldn't want to be close to that?
Alternate snarky post:
Listening to people talk about what Bob Dylan is better is like listening to people talk about which is better, eating a dog turd in a waffle cone or in a sandwich.
Dammit, these are both terrible things and should be avoided whenever possible.
Not which is WORSE and so the other is slightly less bad but... BETTER. I mean, googlemoogles.
THE FACT THAT PEOPLE LIKE THINGS I HATE FILLS ME WITH RAAAAAGE
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Alternate snarky post:THE FACT THAT PEOPLE LIKE THINGS I HATE FILLS ME WITH RAAAAAGE
Whereas THE FACT THAT PEOPLE LIKE THINGS I HATE FILLS ME WITH PIIITYYYY.
This is what happens when you don't have nothing useful to contribute to a thread and still want to pipe the fuck in.
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Modern Times (http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/11277554/review/11286830/modern_times) is a fantastic album. Coincidentally Modern Times (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=893627879073510155) is a fantastic silent movie.
Love and Theft was pretty great too.
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I am all for taking as good as I give but... man... calling me out for liking Guns N Roses in response for ragging on Bob Dylan just ain't enough.
The fact that I like a fun weird over-the-top rock act from my youth just ain't enough ammo to shoot me down for NOT liking a dude who has basically crafted all his material specifically to impress the college sophomores of whatever given age he was in at the time, sort of the Woody Allen of popular music, going to the local university, perusing the 201 textbooks of the liberal arts department and... poop... out comes "Annie Hall" or whatever.
I mean, I am an easy target in a lot of ways but... man... knocking me for digging music that channels my inner angry 13 year old ain't the way to go about it.
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a dude who has basically crafted all his material specifically to impress the college sophomores of whatever given age he was in at the time,
I think you're basically full of shit here, but even if it's true it's better than being a dude who crafted all his material for high school sophomores.
Only thing worse would be Gene Simmons who crafted his material for 6th graders.
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Oh man. Say what you will about Dylan's output up until 1964 and after 1966, but during the period in between he crafted material--maybe not with the specific purpose of--but that ended up pissing off many more college sophomores than it impressed. I think it's more revolutionary than almost anything ever in rock and more importantly all of it kicks ass. In fact even if I cede his pre-electric output to your point you're still mostly full of shit, because his project ever since his motorcycle accident has basically been to document, brilliantly recreate or ungraciously steal from "the old, weird America," sometimes successfully and sometimes falling flat on his face, but never to impress the group of students he grew from. I'd say a lot or maybe even most of my friends don't care much for him, and almost none of them like him as much as I do, so it doesn't bother me that you don't care for him at all. It's just that you're wrong in your analysis.
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Ah, but that is what makes all the difference.
Axl Rose don't do nothing to impress anyone but the crazies inside his head and they just happen to genuinely channel a nostalgia of adolescent rage.
There's a purity of intention there that speaks to me. A dude awkwardly but genuinely trying to artistically deal with his demons will always entertain me more than a dude crafting out a perfectly positioned piece of schlock, even if said schlock is perfectly positioned for people who smoke clove cigarettes. Anyone can create a personal formula and stick with it even when changing the genres you're applying them to because the cash just rolls in.
It takes a truly interesting crazy person to hole themselves up in a Willy Wonka mansion with people who wear chicken buckets on their heads and just try to beat their adolescent traumas to death with fuck*ng ProTools. I guess that this could be seen as a matter of tastes but... I don't know. It just seems so much more right than the aforementioned alternative.
I am trying to explain something that is difficult to explain, I understand that.
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It's purely a matter of taste and I make no claim about Axl Rose or your interest in him. But even though some Dylan is schlock (it's probably impossible to be as prolific as Dylan and not have some crap), my point is that the Dylan material I referred to is not schlock, and is the not the output of a hack.
I'm with you on the whole crazy person thing, even though our tastes obviously differ. It's part of what attracts me to The Knife's Karin Dreijer Andersson's solo project Fever Ray, which saw its first and self-titled album released this year. I've always like The Knife well enough, but this album seems like the work of a mad person. Like Bjork at her craziest turned to 11. And not in volume or tempo or anything like that, just craziness. See also Bradford Cox of Atlas Sound and Deerhunter.
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sort of the Woody Allen of popular music, going to the local university, perusing the 201 textbooks of the liberal arts department and... poop... out comes "Annie Hall" or whatever.
Dude, are you ragging on one of the greatest musicians of all time for being like one of the greatest filmmakers of all time? Dude.
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I wasn't trying to put you down for liking Guns and Roses, I like Guns and Roses myself. The horrible abortion Axl Rose recently released not withstanding. It's just that your analysis of Bob Dylan was so ridiculous I chose to answer it with a non sequitur about your fanatical love of Axl Rose.
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My Leonard Cohen can beat up your Bob Dylan.
On a semi-related note I've been trying to get into Tom Waits lately, I got hooked listening to 'the piano has been drinking' and from there chocolate jesus and innocent when you dream have been looping on youtube for me. Any tips for a good starting point on the fellow? I was thinking I'd try pick up Small Change from somewhere (is there a CD version? I'm fairly sure I saw it on itunes anyway). From what I've heard so far I think I'm more into his bar room bluesy stuff than his more industrial stuff (which I think I'll come around to, just need to ease myself in).
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Small Change is definitely on CD because I own it.
Personally, it's my favourite Waits of all because it kind of distills that bar blues part of his work.
But yeah. Woody Allen, Bob Dylan, all that sort of thing is not my thing.
When a creative work smacks to me as being primarily constructed to get across how smart/deep they are as opposed to trying to express ideas or trying to figure something out, I am actively repelled.
"Look how inscrutable I can be!" "Look how ahead of the curve I can be!" "Look at how many philosophers I can name!"
Feh. Feh and meh. Art as self-eggrandizement is the saddest thing.
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tl;dr: Smets is a douchebag, things he doesn't like are self-evidently and objectively worse than things he likes, you're all idiots for liking them, film at eleven
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i like covers of tom waits songs better than his own performances.
sue me.
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The real trouble, though, is that Bob Dylan is actually a ***** lizard, and all his songs use secret, advanced neuro-linguistic programming techniques to transform his listeners into a sleeper army who will, when the time is right, rise up and overthrow the governments of the world, ushering in Dylan's thousand-and-one year reign.
Say what you like about Axl Rose, he didn't craft all of his music specifically to establish the dominance of the *****-lizard race over humankind.
Don't even get me started on the shit Woody Allen pulls.
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Say what you like about Axl Rose, he didn't craft all of his music specifically to establish the dominance of the #####-lizard race over humankind.
Technically true, but only because they wouldn't sign him so he had to go with the ancient deep ones instead.
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Axl Rose blahbittyblahblahblorp (...) There's a purity of intention there that speaks to me.
Not tryin' to pick on you but AHAHAHAHAHAHA
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I am basically anti Green Day because they started out as a self-consciously simplistic pop-punk band, graduated to the big money by recording a bunch of shitty prom theme-type songs and now that they are older and trying to be Significant, they are attempting to half-heartedly write about Significant Things but... like...
OK, so you didn't like them when they played simple stuff, and now that they're trying to write songs of substance, you don't like that either?
In a modern music landscape where so much popular music sucks, where it's all about who's got the hottest chicks in the craziest outfits, and every other song has auto-tune in it, I respect the fact that Green Day is trying to make records that actually say something. You can argue about whether they do it well or not, but I can't understand how you won't respect the effort.
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I call tl;dr on the Wikipedia article of the intentional fallacy. It is the first time I have ever done this.
I have a feeling I would disagree with it, though, as I believe the author is king.
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The intentional fallacy fails to account for readers being omniscient telepaths, as all critics of media who post on the Internet are.
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I can't decide whether to be glad or sorry that I started this.
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On a semi-related note I've been trying to get into Tom Waits lately, I got hooked listening to 'the piano has been drinking' and from there chocolate jesus and innocent when you dream have been looping on youtube for me. Any tips for a good starting point on the fellow? I was thinking I'd try pick up Small Change from somewhere (is there a CD version? I'm fairly sure I saw it on itunes anyway). From what I've heard so far I think I'm more into his bar room bluesy stuff than his more industrial stuff (which I think I'll come around to, just need to ease myself in).
I don't know exactly what you mean by his industrial stuff, but I think Small Change is a good start. If you want to get a bit weirder you could move on to Swordgiraffetrombones, then Rain Dogs and finally Frank's Wild Years (which has Innocent When You Dream--two versions!). Not necessarily in that order I guess, that's just chronological. I like just about everything he's released, but tend to prefer that period, and a few albums from this and the last decade. Whatever you do, don't miss him if he ever plays in your part of the world. I saw him in El Paso last year, and I probably say this after a lot of concerts, but it was the best show I've ever seen. The man can entertain.
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I love Dan Hicks version of The Piano has been Drinking.
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Waits ACL performance is amazing.
Also, Swordgiraffetrombones. Yeah.
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I guess by industrial I was thinking of his stuff like Rain Dog, which I like but it's about as non-melodical as I am willing to get at the moment, if that description makes sense? I just need to like him more as an artist before I'm trusting enough to let something like that soak into my brain.
So yeah, I guess Small Change it is. I'll add it to the list of things I'm going to buy after my exam next week. Also on the list: DvDs for Primer and Brick, and the no longer new Scott Pilgrim. There was also a non-comic book but I can't remember just now.
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Brick is the shit. Can!
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Are we done here? I was hoping we could throw some more shit on each other.
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eMusic just announced a new deal with Sony. They can now sell any Sony song that was released 2+ years ago. Maybe I'll finally get me a copy of London Calling.
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That's potentially exciting. When's the Sony stuff going to be available?
ANOTHER Okkervil River album? Them boys is prolific. And yet I will download it like a chump. I wonder if it has any songs using sailing the seas as a metaphor for touring.
Correction: not a new album, but an old one I don't have displayed on the front page as if it's new. Urp.
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Answering my own question: the Sony stuff comes on-line July 11.
HOWEVER, they're also cutting my monthly downloads from 50 to 30, at the same price.
BOO TO THAT
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Answering my own question: the Sony stuff comes on-line July 11.
HOWEVER, they're also cutting my monthly downloads from 50 to 30, at the same price.
BOO TO THAT
For me it looks like they're dropping raising the price of my plan by $98 $74* and cutting my monthly tracks from 65 to 35. It kicks in next August. But I'm about to e-mail customer service because I just happen to have saved an e-mail that says "Your selected plan will be guaranteed as long as you keep your account active and in good standing."
*I didn't notice at first that the price quoted was only for 1 year since I'm currently on a 2-year plan.
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Well they replied with a form letter that made no mention of the guarantee or the fact that they're reneging on it. I know that their plans are still half the cost of iTunes or Amazon but maybe they shouldn't have used then word "guarantee" before.
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So I might be late on the bandwagon for this one but I've been listening to Who Killed Amanda Palmer over and over again these last couple of days and I love the hell out of it. I'd been vaguely aware of the Dresden Dolls but never really examined them, weirdly I found about her through Neil Gaiman's blog. Anyway, yeah, awesome album. I think I'm going to institute a new rule about buying anything that Ben Folds produces.
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i just downloaded a bunch of songs from a band called 'elvis hitler'.
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I've heard of them. Any good?
I don't know if this subject has its own thread or not, but Prince is a better artist than Michael Jackson.
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Everybody, QUICK! listen to Nouvelle Vague.
Also, I am so hard into Ennio Morricone's work with Sergio Leone. It all started when I saw this bad ass band named Spindrift.
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I've heard of them. Any good?
they were kind of a let down for me, considering the name. i dig the psychobilly that has more in common with hardcore/punk. that loud/fast/abrasive stuff. if i want yowling and crooning, ill listen to danzig.
but anyways, yeah, theyre rather revival-y.