The OFFICIAL Unofficial Achewood Message Board
Trivial Pursuits => History => Topic started by: Doc on August 27, 2009, 05:05:57 am
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So what are folks' opinions on this whole boondoggle? For against, why etc?
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they should socialize housing and food, first.
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Compassion is what makes us human. If we refuse to help those less fortunate than us, we are no better than animals. Odds are most of us would be dead today without modern medicine, what with influenza and the chicken pox and broken clavicles and what not. We've no right to deny anyone else the same as we have gotten. To me, this is a non-issue, not even worthy of debate. Everyone has certain basic human rights, medical care is one of them, and I'll cut anyone who says different!
Rawr!
I... I feel very strongly about this, it seems...
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I don't know if I think it's a basic human right. But like, we do not live in a basic society, we live in an incredibly advanced, incredibly rich society.
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We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane. Kurt Vonnegut said that.
We're all in this together, kid. Bobby DeNiro said that in "Brazil".
They said all that needs to be said in the matter.
We're collectively monsters in that we don't provide for all medical needs from our collective economic lard, it's that simple.
Rich men who want to keep getting richer exponentially instead of additively can prop up textbook-intellectual fascists and fire-in-a-crowded-theatre blowhards and can give them all the radio and television channels in the world to convince those of us trapped in-between those twin pincers, thesis and antithesis... and, fuck, maybe even some of the bomb-throwers and bean-counters are actually mad enough to believe it themselves... but, kids, it doesn't make it true or right or just.
All these assholes talk about what's economically possible and it's all a ruse, it's all a con, it's all a royal scam.
Were we all allowed to throw our whips in the stream, we could change the course of mighty rivers and be KIND to each other, goddamn it.
Would that we could just not listen to the bomb-throwers telling us to burn our whips and the college professors telling us that, in some theoretical fashion, rivers don't really exist. Fuck both groups the same for being traitors to the human race in return for a television show and thirty pieces of silver.
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Being on the other side of this has been incredibly odd. The continual demonizing of the Canadian health care system by the US GOP and right wing media is so totally off base. Having worked in health care in Canada for the past 7 months, and having specifically worked for people experiencing several co-occurring conditions, and are also marginalized, stigmatized and otherwise without access to basic necessities of life, I am all for our medical system. All the bullshit you folks outside Canada hear about how bad our medical system is doesn't compare with the fact Canadians have longer life expectancies than Americans, continually vote to maintain the current health care system, and otherwise indicate satisfaction and good health under our current system.
There was a recent campaign in the US using the experiences of a single Canadian who vocally bashed the experience of using the Canadian medical system in some American smear campaign, and it was later proven by carefully backed up, independant research in Canada that every one of this person's claims of poor treatment were false and grossly exaggerated. I wish I could recall the actual person's name who made these claims, because I saw several reports earlier this month where every aspect of the anti-Canadian medical system smear campaign was proven wrong, and where the person who had made the claims in the first place did some major back peddling.
On a personal note, I have had several serious health problems over the years and with each issue, I have easily and quickly received care as needed. The only time I struggled with accessing care was when I was suffering from depression, and looking back now, I can honestly say I was aware of care available to me, which I avoided accessing due to the stigma surround mental illness coupled with the fact I didn't want to face the root cause of my illness, not because care wasn't available.
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I voted Government Hands Off Medicare! because that's the most absurd position. And absurd is good.
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Oh come on, stop agreeing. Where's A-CAP when you need him?
I voted Government Hands Off Medicare! because that's the most absurd position. And absurd is good.
I agree, I can't take credit for that one unfortunately, I got it from here (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/poll-republicans-think-government-should-stay-out-of-medicare.php). Which is really just a cheap little gotcha, but still fairly hilarious.
I'd try to devise a counter argument for the sake of it but I want to finish my submission to a senate enquiry on marriage equality.
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God that poll would be funny if only it wasn't what the actual debate has descended to.
Smells, I have to say, I always agreed that people who demonized the Canadian system were either crazy or ignorant - until you told the story about how long it took you to see a psychiatrist that time. Maybe you delayed looking for care because of the stigma but as I recall it, once you did try to see someone, it was very difficult to get help promptly despite the seriousness of the situation - you couldn't get an appointment and you didn't have a choice of trying to get an appointment to see someone who was available sooner. Am I remembering this wrong? If so I'd like to know it, because this story colors my whole view of the Canadian system now, which was otherwise completely positive.
What bothers me the most about this whole thing is the people who continue to repeat that we have the best health care system on earth when not only do many people not have access to the most basic care but also our stats are not the best in life expectancy, infant mortality, and so on. What kind of evidence would it take to convince those people that there's any problem that needs to be solved? It's similar to how we deny that it means anything about our education system when other countries have better test scores. We are so sure that we are Number One that we don't think we have to make any effort. I suspect this is the first sign when a global empire starts to lose its grip on first place.
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The only thing a global empire needs to retains it's position as number one is having the best weapons and clearly America still leads the world in that regard. However, we could end up another USSR with a mighty military and starving citizens.
Smells, I'm with Wombat here thinking that I too remember harrowing tales of trouble accessing the Canadian system.
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I think that in recent history it means more than weapons. It's not just that we can bully people into things, it's that we think we have the best in everything, we're the pinnacle of civiliization and anyone with any sense wants to be exactly like us. Apparently it's hard to damage that self-esteem with ugly facts.
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Your chinchilla sleeps on a mattress?
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Your chinchilla sleeps on a mattress?
his mattress is a chinchilla.
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The mattress is where he and the chinchilla get intimate.
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also, i dont think the government could run healthcare very well. most anyone that works for them knows how they fuck everything and are only worried about money. it wouldnt be any different if they run my health.
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Once you go chinchilla you won't go back.
thats what all the lady chinchillas probably say...
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Humans have the largest absolute c*ck volume of all the great apes, and that makes me do a happy dance.
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No wonder male gorillas are always giving us the stink-eye. All outweighing us by 600lbs but coming in second best in the ding-dong department.
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To elaborate on my personal situation, now that I'm not under a hood of depression, I can say there were definite, immediate options for mental health care that I didn't access. There were multiple free counseling programs offered through medical clinics and abuse recovery centres in my community that I was aware of and did not access, including one available all day, three days a week, on walk-in basis, about 15 minutes from my house by foot. I still have the phone number of that clinic and its hours written down in my address book, which, back then, I ignored for months while waiting to see a psychiatrist. I still have the pamphlet of another organization that offered free one on one or group counseling to any women with my personal history that I could have, again, accessed for free at any time I decided was right.
I can't for the life of me understand why I insisted on seeing a psychiatrist (which yes, did have a two month wait time) rather than a therapist certified as a psychologist or mood disorder specialist, and either of which I could have accessed immediately. At the time, I'm fairly certain I wasn't ready to confront the root cause of my depression, and while running away from that, I was also in denial of the fact there were plenty of opportunities to get well that I was ignoring.
The pain of accepting my fammily situation was just too much for me to confront at the time, so I made excuses and avoided actually looking at (and making adult choices about) this problem until I had no other choice. I also held a glamorized idea of what a psychiatrist was, and thought I wouldn't get any magical happy ending from anyone but my TV idea of what a psychiatrist was. Interestingly enough, when I did finally see my psychiatrist, he had no interest in medicating me, which was the only thing he could have done for me that a psychologist or therapist couldn't, and mean while, any psychologist affiliated with a health clinic could have easily connected me with their acting physician to prescribe meds if I had needed them. My psychiatrist wasn't glamorous at all, there was none of the Prince of Tides deep spiritual connection I hoped for. All he did was basically hand me Klleenex and confront me with the truth about my situation repeatedly until I had no choice but to hear it, which is something any neutral party could have done. Don't get me wrong - he did a great job of being bluntly, brutally honest with me while everyone else who cared was molly coddling me out of misplaced kindness so as to not upset my already shaken self. A psychologist, or any other disinterested third party could have done that though, and now that I've personally known a few counselors through my last job, I know there are some out there without the fancy degree who could have done just as good a job at that, and immediately been able to see me too. There was nothing chemically wrong with me, I was in a fucked up situation, and a fucked up situation I didn't want to accept the depth or permanence of.
The truth will set you free. That doesn't mean it wont kick your ass around the block ten times in the process, but the truth will set you free. I feel, honestly, like I am a totally different person now than I was back then. It's odd looking back on it with the total clarity I lacked then though. I'm looking at making some significant changes to my life I might need some therapeutic support on to do right, and now I know all I have to do is find the courage to confront what's holding me back. Once I'm ready to deal with that shit, I know all I need to do is walk into a therapists office and as for guidance and insight into how to make the changes I need to make.
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Mental health care has a whole other rainbow of stigma attached that complicate matters even if you're living in a land of sane medical practice or even if you have the bread to navigate the unmitigated insanity of the American system, I've found, yeah.
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Thanks for clearing that up. A two month wait for a psychiatrist is definitely different from a two month wait for any help at all.
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Yes, there is a thick film of shame involved in dealing with mental illness, which is so internalized in lots of folks, including me, that one's greatest enemy can easily be one's self when it comes to getting well.
I became a certified mental health first aid practitioner during my time away from the board. The weirdos and friendos still gravitate to me on the regular, but now I can access their deal pretty quickly, understand what is going on in their heads, and treat them with kindness an respect on a whole new level.
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"certified mental health first aid practitioner" is pretty much the coolest job title ever.
canned for being a rad lady with a double-plus rad title.
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Several years ago I was in the depths of a bout of clinical depression. I called the special number our health insurer provided us to find out about talking to a psychiatrist. The earliest I could be seen was 60 days later and for most doctors it was more like 90. So I went to my GP and he wrote me a scrip for Prozac, which had worked for me before.
I am an American. I had (and have) private health insurance. Very good private health insurance, especially at that time. So there that is.
I try to be a pragmatist on most political issues. Maybe that comes from working in government and trying to actually accomplish some of the lofty programs our legislators impose on us. I don't hold a lot of truck with serving some philosophical political ideal at the cost of something that works. Government's job is to get the job done, not further the cause of liberalism or conservatism and I don't have a lot of sympathy for idealists on either side who forget that. We'd all be better off if there were less political grandstanding and more focus on the work at hand.
That being said, I think our health care system is broken. We spend more than anybody, but our infant mortality rate isn't great. We don't live longer than anybody else. Yes, the finest health care is available in this country, for a few of us.
Here's the thing. We're paying for health care for everybody already. We're just choosing to do it in a really fuck*ng stupid way. If somebody drags their dying carcass into an emergency room, they're going to get treated. We fund county hospitals and the like. People without health care go to work anyway, infecting the rest of us and costing us productivity and days of work. We are going to pay one way or the other. Why not choose to pay for something at least a little more effective at providing quality care to more people than what we have now?
I read a statistic (which I can't vouch for the truth of, but I'll throw it out there anyway) that said the Medicare has a 3% overhead rate. Private health insurance has a 30% overhead. What exactly are we getting for our 30%? I understand the idea of the free enterprise system and that competition should make businesses more efficient. And I suppose it does.
But what it makes the more efficient at is making profits. What's most profitable does not equal the best health care system for the American people. It just means the system that makes the insurers the most money.
I love the "Death Panel" argument too. "I don't want some damn government bureaucrat deciding whether I live or die." OK, so you're fine with an insurance company executive continuing to make that decision? Whatever. At least the bureaucrat ain't gonna get paid a bonus for letting you die.
I don't understand why we don't do something like Medicare for everybody. A minimum base level of government provided coverage with private insurers selling supplemental coverage. There's a floor available to everyone and you can buy more if you want and can afford it. It's worked fine for Medicare for 40 years.
OK, long rambling rant over.
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August West for fuck*ng President. Who's with me?
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After my eight years? Sure.
Come on. You know we'd have fun those eight years.
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After my eight years? Sure.
Come on. You know we'd have fun those eight years.
Bah. You'd make Welcome to the Jungle the National Anthem.
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Welcome To the Jungle would make a great doorbell. Or, like, set it to play when somebody walks through the door.
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I'll let Superman speak for me on this one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/superman-supports-welfare.jpg).
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Bah. You'd make Welcome to the Jungle the National Anthem.
Pfft.
Rocket Queen.
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And Superman for VP. Not president - being Superman would give him something to do at the times that your normal Vice President is just sitting around twiddling his thumbs.
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Several years ago I was in the depths of a bout of clinical depression. I called the special number our health insurer provided us to find out about talking to a psychiatrist. The earliest I could be seen was 60 days later and for most doctors it was more like 90. So I went to my GP and he wrote me a scrip for Prozac, which had worked for me before.
I am an American. I had (and have) private health insurance. Very good private health insurance, especially at that time. So there that is.
I try to be a pragmatist on most political issues. Maybe that comes from working in government and trying to actually accomplish some of the lofty programs our legislators impose on us. I don't hold a lot of truck with serving some philosophical political ideal at the cost of something that works. Government's job is to get the job done, not further the cause of liberalism or conservatism and I don't have a lot of sympathy for idealists on either side who forget that. We'd all be better off if there were less political grandstanding and more focus on the work at hand.
That being said, I think our health care system is broken. We spend more than anybody, but our infant mortality rate isn't great. We don't live longer than anybody else. Yes, the finest health care is available in this country, for a few of us.
Here's the thing. We're paying for health care for everybody already. We're just choosing to do it in a really fuck*ng stupid way. If somebody drags their dying carcass into an emergency room, they're going to get treated. We fund county hospitals and the like. People without health care go to work anyway, infecting the rest of us and costing us productivity and days of work. We are going to pay one way or the other. Why not choose to pay for something at least a little more effective at providing quality care to more people than what we have now?
I read a statistic (which I can't vouch for the truth of, but I'll throw it out there anyway) that said the Medicare has a 3% overhead rate. Private health insurance has a 30% overhead. What exactly are we getting for our 30%? I understand the idea of the free enterprise system and that competition should make businesses more efficient. And I suppose it does.
But what it makes the more efficient at is making profits. What's most profitable does not equal the best health care system for the American people. It just means the system that makes the insurers the most money.
I love the "Death Panel" argument too. "I don't want some damn government bureaucrat deciding whether I live or die." OK, so you're fine with an insurance company executive continuing to make that decision? Whatever. At least the bureaucrat ain't gonna get paid a bonus for letting you die.
I don't understand why we don't do something like Medicare for everybody. A minimum base level of government provided coverage with private insurers selling supplemental coverage. There's a floor available to everyone and you can buy more if you want and can afford it. It's worked fine for Medicare for 40 years.
OK, long rambling rant over.
im going to post a part of this rant in a message baord i post to on myspace.
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While I would most want a full National Health model, I would not kick "medicare for everybody, private coverage for non-basic services" model out of bed for eating crackers.
Certainly not at this point.
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army surgeons are getting really good at cosmetic surgery also they have great prices
one eight six six army doc
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im going to post a part of this rant in a message baord i post to on myspace.
Well thanks. Post me a link so I can see the reaction.
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I don't understand why we don't do something like Medicare for everybody. A minimum base level of government provided coverage with private insurers selling supplemental coverage. There's a floor available to everyone and you can buy more if you want and can afford it. It's worked fine for Medicare for 40 years.
This is what has always seemed like a good idea to me. There's no reason for government to take over the private companies, if you want to spend more to get a nicer room or speedier care then that's your call and you should be able to. What I don't see how competition can really exist in the healthcare industry without some sort of safety net, people can't vote with their dollar if the other option is permanent illness or death. It seems like they could use some motivating to improve their product and a government sponsored alternative could be just the thing.
I'll let Superman speak for me on this one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/superman-supports-welfare.jpg).
It must be such a goddamn pain to live near Superman. You can't have a five minute conversation without him flying down and putting his two cents in in the form of a 10 minute monologue, then everyone just fauns over him and he flies off before you can even point out that David Irving's books have been long discredited.
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Superman is kind of a dick.
Tangentially related: I am super-stoked for Warren Ellis' new series, Supergod (http://www.previewsworld.com/public/default.asp?t=1&m=1&c=23&s=216&ai=86184&ssd=).
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It must be such a goddamn pain to live near Superman. You can't have a five minute conversation without him flying down and putting his two cents in in the form of a 10 minute monologue, then everyone just fauns over him and he flies off before you can even point out that David Irving's books have been long discredited.
To be fair, he's saying "Hey! Fuck Superman, I ain't need no fancy big-city hospitals!" at a hospital fundraising event where he's just been told Superman is in attendance. Superman overhearing and responding is not unreasonable under those circumstances
Also, not sure what David Irving has to do with this.
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Well thanks. Post me a link so I can see the reaction.
http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&groupID=102791268&page=3&EntryID=74376242&CategoryID=0&get=1&adTopicId=0&lastpagesent=0&Mytoken=1E899A71-7AD1-4FB5-8570787BD88F17B6101926594 (http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&groupID=102791268&page=3&EntryID=74376242&CategoryID=0&get=1&adTopicId=0&lastpagesent=0&Mytoken=1E899A71-7AD1-4FB5-8570787BD88F17B6101926594)
(FYI, on myspace, im Tony-Boy Curtis)
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if superman existed, I hope he would pop in and tell people I was right about stuff. Or set me straight when I was wrong.
I think I would buy it if superman told me I was wrong.
Although you never know, he might be a dick in some way.
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Ta-da (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=28&Itemid=45)!
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Ta-da (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=28&Itemid=45)!
Oh my lord, I haven't laughed that hard in a long, long time. My wife made me bookmark it because I was distracting her from SVU with my howling.
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Also, not sure what David Irving has to do with this.
I was building to a joke where it turned out superman was arguing that the holocaust never happened but everyone went along with it because it's superman and that's what happens in that sort of comic/tract. Then I decided it wasn't that funny but kept the Irvine reference anyway so it could live on in my mind.
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So the thing about Superdickery is that it's a site that relies on the assumption (usually well-founded) that the reader has never actually read the comic in question. It assumes that the typical reader has neither the time nor the inclination to actually go read terrible Silver Age comic books and find out the answers to the dramatic questions posed on the front cover - what is the actual mystery of Superman's Mystery Song? Superdickery is aimed at the reader who will never know or care.
Superdickery, in other words, is not a site that is aimed at someone like me. Do you dare to follow along as I reveal the terrible secret of..
Superman's Mystery Song?!
As we begin our story, Clark is going to Lois's apartment to help her move some books. On seeing the inside of her apartment, we find out...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/lois008-24-boonefan.jpg)
Lois is a Pat Boone fan. And why shouldn't she be?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/lois009-24-2moreboonefans.jpg)
These guys like Pat Boone.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/lois009-24-3clarklikesboone.jpg)
Even Clark likes Pat Boone. Do you like Pat Boone?
Then some inexplicable nonsense happens.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/lois009-26-plop.jpg)
With that out of the way, we find out Pat Boone is visiting the Daily Planet! And more than that..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/lois009-26-asklois.jpg)
He overhears Lois singing a song and asks her to perform with him! What a swell guy. No wonder everyone likes him.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/lois009-27-wontyouclark.jpg)
Clark's a newspaperman, so he's got to be good at writing things. That naturally includes song lyrics, right?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/lois009-27-clarkslyrics.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/lois009-27-clarkslyrics.jpg)
Well, maybe not. (Click the image for a bigger version if you can't read the lyrics.)
Kids! Can YOU figure out the secret of - Superman's Mystery Song?!
While you're working on that, Superman spends a couple of pages on more inexplicable nonsense.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/lois009-28-hulahoop.jpg)
Why would Superman prevent Pat and Lois from performing their song? Because it takes him time to work out a real solution to his problem! Which as it turns out..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/lois009-30-harmlesslyrics.jpg)
Is that he dreams in acrostics. As you probably noticed.
So Superman doesn't actually prevent Lois from performing with Pat Boone - he just stalls them in really weird ways while he comes up with new lyrics for them. It's entirely a problem of his own creation, but who among us hasn't accidentally revealed his secret identity by writing terrible song lyrics in their dreams now and then?
This is my problem with Superdickery. Silver Age Superman isn't an asshole, he's batshit insane. And so is the universe he lives in.
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Actually one thing I liked about that site was that they admit that:
3. The purpose of this site is to make you laugh, and half the humor of these covers is that they're completely devoid of context. Trust me, finding out what's going on in the pages within makes some of them actually make sense, and then they're just not that funny anymore.
I'm doing you a favor. Really.
After reading Ben's post I am inclined to agree that they were doing me a favor by protecting me from full knowledge that this is what went on in the comics. There are some things it is better not to know. People got paid for this?
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"Boone sure is the most idolized singer in America."
Someone is seriously deluded.
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After reading Ben's post I am inclined to agree that they were doing me a favor by protecting me from full knowledge that this is what went on in the comics. There are some things it is better not to know. People got paid for this?
(psst don't tell anyone but actually I was selecting panels in isolation for comedic effect too)
So here's the thing about Silver Age DC: if you didn't get a script in on time, the editor would send the art department a title written on a scrap of paper, get the cover drawn, and tell the writers "Here, this is what you're doing this month."
That's what happened with a lot of Superdickery.
..also the authors were completely insane.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/bensanaz/issue48-godmother2.jpg)
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I mean, also, Clark Kent wrote the lyrics to that song. He couldn't just be 'yeah that's my way of signing it' or something? But no, that would be crazy.
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So here's the thing about Silver Age DC: if you didn't get a script in on time, the editor would send the art department a title written on a scrap of paper, get the cover drawn, and tell the writers "Here, this is what you're doing this month."
..also the authors were completely insane.
I was about to say "it would be an interesting writing exercise to reconstruct those scraps of paper and try to do better" but then I realized, that is probably what made the authors insane.
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Two things...
By telling Pat Boone why he sabotaged the broadcast of lyrics that supposedly only Clark Kent and Pat knew isn't he basically telling Pat that he is in fact Superman.
And what was the clue anyway, the part about the Kryptonite?
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Two things...
By telling Pat Boone why he sabotaged the broadcast of lyrics that supposedly only Clark Kent and Pat knew isn't he basically telling Pat that he is in fact Superman.
And what was the clue anyway, the part about the Kryptonite?
The lyrics are an acrostic spelling Clark Kent. Which, y'know, most people would figure was just the lyric writer's way of getting his name into the song, but Superman worries about these things.
But yes, he has functionally told Pat Boone how to figure out his secret identity, ushering him into an exclusive club with Pete Ross, the Legion of Superheroes, and Presidents Roosevelt through Johnson.
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http://lookatthisfuck*ngteabagger.com/post/188679573
This is a kind of special I cannot put into words.
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Come on, that has to be one of those ironic counter-teabaggers.
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Come on, that has to be one of those ironic counter-teabaggers.
Highly doubtful. They were local. There was an influx of idiots about town that weekend.
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That is truly a thing of beauty.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q7XH8lfGMc
I want to know the story behind this fellow. Did he just start walking from one end to the other, and the cops started shielding him? Did he ask them? Did they advise him against it? Did he have to persuade them?
However this came to pass, the dude has mad bozack. And also chops.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q7XH8lfGMc
I want to know the story behind this fellow. Did he just start walking from one end to the other, and the cops started shielding him? Did he ask them? Did they advise him against it? Did he have to persuade them?
However this came to pass, the dude has mad bozack. And also chops.
Yet, inexplicably enough, no chopped bozack as one would expect.
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did i miss the poll before or something because i don't remember it and wow bias
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did i miss the poll before or something because i don't remember it and wow bias
I tried to make them all humorously ridiculous.
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My Dad appeals (http://www.sierrasun.com/article/2009909089989) to the citizens of his backwoods, economically depressed, small town via newspaper editorial on the polarization of debate.
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That's good. I wish him luck.
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That's good. I wish him luck.
Me too.