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I don't see why people should have to work just because they want something.

10 (55.6%)

The thought of my tax dollars going to helping another human being makes me so sick I'm lucky I have insurance.

2 (11.1%)

Government hands off Medicare!

6 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 18

[Doc]

So what are folks' opinions on this whole boondoggle? For against, why etc?

[greenkoolayd]

they should socialize housing and food, first.

[Toaster]

Compassion is what makes us human. If we refuse to help those less fortunate than us, we are no better than animals. Odds are most of us would be dead today without modern medicine, what with influenza and the chicken pox and broken clavicles and what not. We've no right to deny anyone else the same as we have gotten. To me, this is a non-issue, not even worthy of debate. Everyone has certain basic human rights, medical care is one of them, and I'll cut anyone who says different!

Rawr!

I... I feel very strongly about this, it seems...

[theinevitable]

I don't know if I think it's a basic human right. But like, we do not live in a basic society, we live in an incredibly advanced, incredibly rich society.

[littlefallsmets]

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane. Kurt Vonnegut said that.

We're all in this together, kid. Bobby DeNiro said that in "Brazil".

They said all that needs to be said in the matter.

We're collectively monsters in that we don't provide for all medical needs from our collective economic lard, it's that simple.

Rich men who want to keep getting richer exponentially instead of additively can prop up textbook-intellectual fascists and fire-in-a-crowded-theatre blowhards and can give them all the radio and television channels in the world to convince those of us trapped in-between those twin pincers, thesis and antithesis... and, fuck, maybe even some of the bomb-throwers and bean-counters are actually mad enough to believe it themselves... but, kids, it doesn't make it true or right or just.

All these assholes talk about what's economically possible and it's all a ruse, it's all a con, it's all a royal scam.

Were we all allowed to throw our whips in the stream, we could change the course of mighty rivers and be KIND to each other, goddamn it.

Would that we could just not listen to the bomb-throwers telling us to burn our whips and the college professors telling us that, in some theoretical fashion, rivers don't really exist. Fuck both groups the same for being traitors to the human race in return for a television show and thirty pieces of silver.

[side_show]

Being on the other side of this has been incredibly odd.  The continual demonizing of the Canadian health care system by the US GOP and right wing media is so totally off base. Having worked in health care in Canada for the past 7 months, and having specifically worked for people experiencing several co-occurring conditions, and are also marginalized, stigmatized and otherwise without access to basic necessities of life, I am all for our medical system.  All the bullshit you folks outside Canada hear about how bad our medical system is doesn't compare with the fact Canadians have longer life expectancies than Americans, continually vote to maintain the current health care system, and otherwise indicate satisfaction and good health under our current system. 

There was a recent campaign in the US using the experiences of a single Canadian who vocally bashed the experience of using the Canadian medical system in some American smear campaign, and it was later proven by carefully backed up, independant research in Canada that every one of this person's claims of poor treatment were false and grossly exaggerated.  I wish I could recall the actual person's name who made these claims, because I saw several reports earlier this month where every aspect of the anti-Canadian medical system smear campaign was proven wrong, and where the person who had made the claims in the first place did some major back peddling. 

On a personal note, I have had several serious health problems over the years and with each issue, I have easily and quickly received care as needed. The only time I struggled with accessing care was when I was suffering from depression, and looking back now, I can honestly say I was aware of care available to me, which I avoided accessing due to the stigma surround mental illness coupled with the fact I didn't want to face the root cause of my illness, not because care wasn't available.

[AugustWest]

I voted Government Hands Off Medicare!  because that's the most absurd position.  And absurd is good.

[Doc]

Oh come on, stop agreeing. Where's A-CAP when you need him?

I voted Government Hands Off Medicare!  because that's the most absurd position.  And absurd is good.

I agree, I can't take credit for that one unfortunately, I got it from here. Which is really just a cheap little gotcha, but still fairly hilarious.

I'd try to devise a counter argument for the sake of it but I want to finish my submission to a senate enquiry on marriage equality.

[wombat]

God that poll would be funny if only it wasn't what the actual debate has descended to.

Smells, I have to say, I always agreed that people who demonized the Canadian system were either crazy or ignorant - until you told the story about how long it took you to see a psychiatrist that time.  Maybe you delayed looking for care because of the stigma but as I recall it, once you did try to see someone, it was very difficult to get help promptly despite the seriousness of the situation - you couldn't get an appointment and you didn't have a choice of trying to get an appointment to see someone who was available sooner. Am I remembering this wrong? If so I'd like to know it, because this story colors my whole view of the Canadian system now, which was otherwise completely positive.

What bothers me the most about this whole thing is the people who continue to repeat that we have the best health care system on earth when not only do many people not have access to the most basic care but also our stats are not the best in life expectancy, infant mortality, and so on. What kind of evidence would it take to convince those people that there's any problem that needs to be solved? It's similar to how we deny that it means anything about our education system when other countries have better test scores. We are so sure that we are Number One that we don't think we have to make any effort. I suspect this is the first sign when a global empire starts to lose its grip on first place.

[pmcd9]

The only thing a global empire needs to retains it's position as number one is having the best weapons and clearly America still leads the world in that regard.  However, we could end up another USSR with a mighty military and starving citizens.

Smells, I'm with Wombat here thinking that I too remember harrowing tales of trouble accessing the Canadian system.

[wombat]

I think that in recent history it means more than weapons. It's not just that we can bully people into things, it's that we think we have the best in everything, we're the pinnacle of civiliization and anyone with any sense wants to be exactly like us. Apparently it's hard to damage that self-esteem with ugly facts.

[wombat]

Your chinchilla sleeps on a mattress?

[greenkoolayd]

Your chinchilla sleeps on a mattress?

his mattress is a chinchilla.

[dejavroom]

The mattress is where he and the chinchilla get intimate.

[greenkoolayd]

also, i dont think the government could run healthcare very well.  most anyone that works for them knows how they fuck everything and are only worried about money.  it wouldnt be any different if they run my health.