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Trivial Pursuits => History => Topic started by: Nabubrush on November 02, 2010, 04:36:24 pm

Title: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 02, 2010, 04:36:24 pm
Thought it might be useful/instructive/infuriating to have a voting thread. Let's engage in participatory democracy, kids!

It's kind of fun for me because I'm at work, so I get to see all the wingnut "we're new at this" Alaska politics (which I was steeped in as a kid, due to my folks being deeply involved), and I also get to follow the hippy-dippy Oregon stuff.

Fun races:

(AK)
Sen: Murkowski/McAdams/Crazy Joe Miller
Gov: Parnell/Berkowitz

(OR)
Gov: Dudley/Kitzhaber
Measure 74 (licensing weed farmers)
Measure 75 (authorizing one private casino - this deal is kind of weird)

So, what about the rest of you folks? Any fun races in your neck of the woods? Is Sarah Palin hanging around in front of your house? Did you enter the voting booth and loudly complain it was out of toilet paper? What's going on?
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: greenkoolayd on November 02, 2010, 04:43:10 pm
i didnt vote because i am not registered to re-pube-lickin' or demo-crap.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: JorgeFabregas on November 02, 2010, 04:47:16 pm
i didnt vote because i am not registered to re-pube-lickin' or demo-crap.
What does that have to do with voting in a general election?

I plan to vote today after months of riding the fence.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 02, 2010, 04:50:54 pm
i didnt vote because i am not registered to re-pube-lickin' or demo-crap.

what
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: smick on November 02, 2010, 05:00:46 pm
(OR)
Gov: Dudley/Kitzhaber
Measure 74 (licensing weed farmers)
Measure 75 (authorizing one private casino - this deal is kind of weird)

I came out Yes on 74 (The Mercury had some good reasons against it... but I don't know... they weren't enough to sway me.)   I also came out No on 75.   
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 02, 2010, 05:21:24 pm
I voted in favor of weed farmers. I'd like to see all these pothead couch-surfers give a little something back. I'm pretty sure everybody in Oregon who ever smokes pot has a card by now, so what the heck.

I also voted against the casino. A little too transparent in your gaming of the system there, boys (see what I did?).
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: pmcd9 on November 02, 2010, 05:32:26 pm
I got into an argument with my father yesterday over the Texas governors race.  We've got entrenched George Bush Clone Rick Perry going against former Houston mayor Bill White.  Yes he agrees he did a good job of governing Houston, yes he was on the ball, a real hero almost during the hurricane, getting things done when the federal government (FEMA) was dragging their feet.  No, he's not voting for him because he's too liberal (What?).  He doesn't want to protect the border (Huh?).  Oy yey!

Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: JorgeFabregas on November 02, 2010, 07:15:37 pm
Missouri's Prop A would put St. Louis and Kansas City's income taxes up for local springtime referendums every five years. It would also ban any other cities in Missouri from enacting income taxes.

I don't like it for a number of reasons. Why should I have any say on how other cities structure their tax code? Why should people in other cities have any say over the legislation of the tax code in my city (St. Louis)?

Also, if the income taxes are phased out, then the burden (30% of St. Louis' city budget and 40% of Kansas City's) will inevitably be shifted to property and/or sales taxes. The city income tax is a flat 1% of earnings for people who live and/or work in St. Louis. That seems fair to me, as the people who benefit from the city infrastructure are the people who pay for it.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 02, 2010, 07:20:12 pm
We got some weird referendum about how our library is run that sounds kind of like that - something about forcing other districts to go along with financing in some kind of way. Sounded a bit hinky to me, but I figured fuck THOSE guys.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: arkabee on November 02, 2010, 08:21:48 pm
oh, i thought this was the thread to RUIN a country.

dammit.

in local news, there's an ad on the radio telling me that some of the people funding the democrat candidate for congress are democrats.

i shit you not.

also, a dude called in to the local "call in and either talk about shit you don't know, try to sell shit, try to buy shit, or possibly read a passage from the bible, but please stop stalking the host" show,
and,
i paraphrase but this is the gist, yeah,

he said that he was old,
and that he lived on a fixed income,
and those folks in washington refused to raise the cost of living,
so we should all vote republican this election.

now, we all have our own misguided loyalty to the republican, democrat, or set shit on fire and riot parties.
all three of them have consistently let all of us down in many, many ways.

and i really don't have a high expectation for humanity. i mean, if i order a hamburger, and reply to the inevitable question with "no, ma'am, no cheese. please.", and do not receive cheese on my hamburger,
then i go home,
i go to the garage,
i lift up the drop cloth from over the easel,
and i put one, singular, lonely mark of chalk into the: "totally didn't fuck up for once, maybe there IS hope for the future of humanity" column.

so,
i don't expect to hear anything reasonable about or from politics in any facet.

but, this left me more jaded.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: AugustWest on November 02, 2010, 08:28:41 pm
I voted against Rand Paul today!
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: CortJstr on November 02, 2010, 08:33:06 pm
I love all the road signs saying things like "voted with Pelosi 97%." Well no shit. That's kind of why we elected him.

I've only heard a few election ads. It's the Boeing/EADS ads about their fuck*ng refueling tankers that make me want to kick babies. Right now I'm supporting EADS simply because they run fewer and less obnoxious ads. Here's a tip, Boeing, any ad featuring two people having a really fake conversation is fuck*ng annoying by definition.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: pmcd9 on November 02, 2010, 08:47:03 pm
my city (St. Louis)?

Did I miss something?  I thought you lived in Chicago?  When did you move?
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 02, 2010, 08:47:59 pm
He lives in Chicago. St. Louis belongs to him.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: pmcd9 on November 02, 2010, 09:01:11 pm
Houston is notoriously lousy about preservation.  There is a referendum to do away altogether with our already weak historical districts.  The anti side's signs read "protect our historical districts" naturally.  I really admire the chutzpah of the other side.  Their signs read "Yes to preservation, no to protected districts."  Ah yes, we could really get down to the business of preserving shit if we didn't have those pesky preservationist standing in our way.  I know how these neauvou preservationist work.  They like to preserve shit with a bulldozer (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmcd9/860582275/).
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: JorgeFabregas on November 02, 2010, 09:40:18 pm
Did I miss something?  I thought you lived in Chicago?  When did you move?

June 30th
http://touamb.com/index.php/topic,3806.msg155867.html#msg155867
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: pmcd9 on November 02, 2010, 10:10:38 pm
Ah.  I vaguely remember you having a meetup with Inev, but I thought maybe he went to Chicago.  He does that sometimes.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 02, 2010, 10:12:52 pm
I'm at CNN.com, and they say NH has reported 12 votes. That seems doubtful.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: jaydub on November 02, 2010, 11:05:30 pm
Ah yes, we could really get down to the business of preserving shit if we didn't have those pesky preservationist standing in our way.  I know how these neauvou preservationists work.  They like to preserve shit with a bulldozer (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmcd9/860582275/).
Fremont Boulevard in my hometown has existed since Alameda County was created in the mid 1800's.  At the northern end, where I live, there is a set of Victorian-age houses that one by one are falling first to graffiti, then to bulldozers.  They're on a section of street that has some strip-mall style businesses on it, that back in the dot-com days were chewing up the real estate like locusts.  Half of them have been 'For Lease' for the past few years, but I'm sure the developers own that land and will get back to razing the few houses that remain once the recovery picks up some steam.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 02, 2010, 11:08:59 pm
Kentucky is being called for Rand Paul and the Curb-stompers.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 02, 2010, 11:29:13 pm
If I did that, I'd have to work. And as far as I'm concerned, election day is just as much a day off as the Super Bowl. I hope my team wins.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: greenkoolayd on November 03, 2010, 12:35:20 am
so, i was hasty in that other post.......

anyway, im glad to be rid of ed rendell.  hopefully onorato will be less of a sumbitch.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: jay-ell on November 03, 2010, 12:38:01 am
I voted against amending the state constitution to prevent people with felony convictions from holding county sheriff offices.

In my opinion, if a convicted felon can get hisself elected in this day and age, he ought to have it.

Also, I am against adding silly, frivolous, single-issue line items to a piece of legislation that has been working fine for a couple hundred years.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: wombat on November 03, 2010, 12:53:16 am
I don't like ballot questions of any kind.  The whole point of electing people, in my view, is to delegate making those kinds of decisions to them. It is their job to think that kind of stuff through. I have my own jobs to do, I don't have time to also do theirs.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: theinevitable on November 03, 2010, 01:24:04 am
yeah, I voted against that "don't let them make taxes" thing. I already forget what other weird, confusing questions I voted on.

my girlfriend voted against the "POWs with debilitating injuries don't have to pay property taxes" thing. I'm interested in hearing her thought process.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: miles on November 03, 2010, 03:48:35 am
my girlfriend voted against the "POWs with debilitating injuries don't have to pay property taxes" thing. I'm interested in hearing her thought process.

Is that the entirety of the bill? That's so specific that it has to impact just a tiny fraction of the population. Seems odd. I guess one argument against it could be:

I don't like ballot questions of any kind.  The whole point of electing people, in my view, is to delegate making those kinds of decisions to them. It is their job to think that kind of stuff through. I have my own jobs to do, I don't have time to also do theirs.

Edit: Hey, the Kansas City Star opposed (http://voices.kansascity.com/entries/approve-two-kansas-amendments-reject-one-missouri/) it:

Quote from: Kansas City Star Editorial Staff
Missouri Amendment 2

The Missouri General Assembly is proposing to amend the state constitution to exempt disabled prisoners of war from paying property taxes on their homes. Because disabled prisoners from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan aren’t included in the measure, it would apply to only about 100 former POWs living in the state.

A show of respect for those who served our nation in the most difficult conditions is always appropriate. But we recommend a no vote on this plan for several reasons.

Most veterans who would be affected by the tax break already are eligible for a tax credit that reimburses Missourians 65 and older or totally disabled individuals for up to $1,100 in taxes owed on their houses.

The property tax exemption would be burdensome for local revenue offices, which would be responsible for administration and enforcement.

The fairness of singling out one group of veterans is questionable. And some veterans’ groups are concerned that these kinds of monetary privileges would encourage people to falsely claim POW status or exaggerate their disabilities.

Disabled POWs are deserving of honor. But changing property tax laws isn’t the way to do it.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 03, 2010, 04:01:21 am
We had one that was about increasing the availability of home loans to veterans.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Choop on November 03, 2010, 04:53:31 am
we had three about letting state agencies spend more money than they have, to allow for multi-year projects; our state teetered on bankruptcy a few years back and was saved from it by passing the opposite measure. all three are passing, much to my chagrin.

we also had five statewide votes to loan a single city over five million dollars to purchase a park and build a second fire station and some other loans. it doesn't need a second fire station, it needs reciprocity agreements with its neighbor cities, which also have fire stations. there's about two miles between it and its neighbors. there are longer stretches without fire stations just within atlanta. all five are passing, much to my ever-enlarging chagrin. if they'd been loans for new computers for the school, or to replace failing police equipment, i'd be happier about it. the only one i voted for was the million-plus for road projects. that turns in to several jobs, which means payroll.

at least delaware voters showed some semblance of sanity tonight even if wisconsin and kentucky (sorry aug) didn't. it's still too early to tell if californians know what the fuck they're doing. whitman and fiorino are both losing, which is good, but so is prop nineteen, which infuriates a dude.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: KeithHernandez on November 03, 2010, 06:48:17 am
In Denver there was a proposition for tax dollars for UFO research.  I voted for it, but it failed miserably.

I also voted for the amendment that rejected Obama's healthcare, probably for different reasons than most.  Still though, fuck that bill.


I really did not want to vote, then my liberal guilt kicked in.  I really just did not want the two Senatorial districts I could call home to be represented by Ken Buck and James Imhofe.  So fuck.  I got to vote no for all of the judges though, my favorite part of voting, and something I forgot about til I was there.  Also, steal the ballot pen/pencil.  I now have 4, though only one says ballot pen.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: jay-ell on November 03, 2010, 02:02:20 pm
ever-enlarging chagrin

Seven kinky!
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Choop on November 03, 2010, 02:43:03 pm
interesting statistic i saw: if nobody over 55 had voted, prop 19 would have passed.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: smick on November 03, 2010, 03:11:44 pm
(http://raindog.net/ljimages/FREEDOM.JPG)

Yesssssssssssss!
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 03, 2010, 03:20:48 pm
Thank you for voting, Keith.

Looks like Crazy Joe Miller may have lost to the write-in candidate (Murkowski), but Oregon got the repub Gov.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 03, 2010, 03:21:55 pm
We got redistricting, so that's a good thing. My local guys are ood people. Guss it's time to hunker down in this state of frazy cucks and dig in.

Again, seven-kinky.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: JorgeFabregas on November 03, 2010, 03:28:21 pm
They pass a proposition that lowers the pass requirement for a state budget to simple majority, while at the same time passing another proposition that brings rate and use fee increases under review with a 2/3 for pass required vote.
Sounds about right. Everyone likes government services and low taxes. That's one of the problems with legislation via referendum. There's no one to call out or hold accountable when conflicting/contradictory items are enacted.

Prop A (municipal income tax thingy) passed by a huge margin, although it lost in St. Louis and Kansas City. So the voters in suburban and rural Missouri have decided that us city-folk need to vote on our own taxes. We don't want to vote on our taxes! Heh. I guess there's a good chance that the taxes will be affirmed in the spring.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: AugustWest on November 03, 2010, 04:05:48 pm

at least delaware voters showed some semblance of sanity tonight even if wisconsin and kentucky (sorry aug) didn't.

Not nearly as sorry as I am.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Carlos del Vaca on November 03, 2010, 04:18:33 pm
Virginia was mostly boring this year.  No Senator up.  Our dumb-ass bazillion-term incumbent Republican congressman won again easily.  The Repubs picked up three seats state-wide, and the district where my office is located is still up in the air as of this morning.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 03, 2010, 04:19:01 pm
Quote from: MSNBC
Nearly all Tea Party Republicans feel the government is involved in too many things and as a first step, 92 percent want the health care overhaul repealed. Tea Party Republicans are also overwhelmingly opposed to same sex marriage – 84 percent are against it. And two thirds of them say that the economic stimulus hurt the country.

I wish I had something witty to say here, but my mouth is full of vomit and it's hard to concentrate.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: CortJstr on November 03, 2010, 04:49:51 pm
Virginia was mostly boring this year.  No Senator up.  Our dumb-ass bazillion-term incumbent Republican congressman won again easily.  The Repubs picked up three seats state-wide, and the district where my office is located is still up in the air as of this morning.

Interestingly my democrat rep not only won but won by an even larger margin than in '08. I'm so glad I'm not under Wolf any more.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: AugustWest on November 03, 2010, 05:16:24 pm
Nearly all Tea Party Republicans feel the government is involved in too many things and as a first step, 92 percent want the health care overhaul repealed. Tea Party Republicans are also overwhelmingly opposed to same sex marriage – 84 percent are against it.

Ahahahahahahaha.  The tea partiers are for freedom and liberty.  Unless it's for somebody else.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 03, 2010, 05:23:04 pm
Less gov't, but forbid gay folks to marry. Actually get involved and make it against the rules.

What
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: smick on November 03, 2010, 06:51:41 pm
Less gov't, but forbid gay folks to marry. Actually get involved and make it against the rules.

What

There ought to be less laws...

UNLESS THERE OUGHT TO BE A LAW!
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Carlos del Vaca on November 03, 2010, 07:22:58 pm
Keep your government hands off my Medicare!
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 03, 2010, 09:16:33 pm
One good thing - I got put on one of them there Death Panels.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Doc on November 04, 2010, 01:21:22 am
Quote from: Nabubrush
92 percent want the health care overhaul repealed.

Does that mean 8 percent want to keep it? Is that a massive sampling error or something?
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 04, 2010, 01:56:43 am
Does that mean 8 percent want to keep it? Is that a massive sampling error or something?

Doc . . . . my name's broke bad . . . can you fix it?

/old western
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Doc on November 04, 2010, 02:03:34 am
Huh. Somehow I've been mentally skipping the middle bu for however long.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 04, 2010, 02:10:57 am
Huh. Somehow I've been mentally skipping the middle bu for however long.

Dude! That's the most important part!

Yeah, that's easy for you to say . . . You have a cool-sounding name. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105236/)
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: wombat on November 04, 2010, 02:18:01 am
Quote
Sometimes I don't know what the fuck y'all are talking about and I'm cool with that.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: pmcd9 on November 04, 2010, 03:46:00 am
I'm quoting Wombat Quoting me here.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 04, 2010, 01:44:21 pm
Things may have gotten a little esoteric there.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: AugustWest on November 04, 2010, 02:27:58 pm
I just wanna watch and see if six years is enough for Auggie to go all Stockholm over Rand Paul or if it's gonna take a second term.

It hasn't happened yet after 25 years of Mitch fuck*ng Mcconnell, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 04, 2010, 03:02:20 pm
I'm pleased to discover that we dodged Dudley. I was worried there for a bit.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: arkabee on November 04, 2010, 05:19:07 pm
One good thing - I got put on one of them there Death Panels.

do what now?
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: JorgeFabregas on November 04, 2010, 05:27:58 pm
It's like jury duty, but with a higher per diem.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 04, 2010, 05:30:34 pm
This one's going out to Paul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFVrBzuyhFA).
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Choop on November 04, 2010, 06:49:40 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/87hBQ.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/87hBQ.jpg)

click for fullsize
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: smick on November 04, 2010, 10:48:26 pm
I'm pleased to discover that we dodged Dudley. I was worried there for a bit.

I'm part of Oregon's "I've been here for years".
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: arkabee on November 07, 2010, 09:12:50 pm
Any one else having spontaneous outbreaks of the Gridlock Happy-Dance?

when i was young, i thought gridlock was evil.  how much progress was stopped simply due to people not agreeing.

now that i am older, i dedicate all my spare time to the building of a time travel device to go back in time and kick my ass for being so stupid.

Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Arachno-capitalist on November 07, 2010, 09:17:13 pm
As an arachno capitalist, I'm happy as a pig in pig food about the idea that the federal government has managed to find itself in a situation where it  can't do anything to me.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 07, 2010, 11:05:29 pm
I do sort of wish I wasn't paying the government so much to end up not doing anything to or for anyone.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Arachno-capitalist on November 08, 2010, 12:22:20 am
I do sort of wish I wasn't paying the government so much to end up not doing anything to or for anyone.
yeah well how does that prayer work? "Accept the things we cannot change and change the things we can" or whatever.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: jaydub on November 08, 2010, 05:22:01 am
...and the wisdom to know the difference.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 08, 2010, 02:48:04 pm
I have a hard time being serene when confronted with out government.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: theinevitable on November 08, 2010, 03:29:18 pm
Quote
when i was young, i thought gridlock was evil.  how much progress was stopped simply due to people not agreeing.

now that i am older, i dedicate all my spare time to the building of a time travel device to go back in time and kick my ass for being so stupid.

wow, what a waste of a lot of spare time.
almost as much of a waste of time and energy as running an entire legislative system where no one can get anything done, and people vote against reasonable compromises just to thumb their noses at a president they hate.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: pmcd9 on November 08, 2010, 04:06:42 pm
almost as much of a waste of time and energy as running an entire legislative system where no one can get anything done, and people vote against reasonable compromises just to thumb their noses at a president they hate.

Well that's kinda what happens when both parties are governing from the fringes.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: arkabee on November 08, 2010, 04:35:40 pm
wow, what a waste of a lot of spare time.

enjoy the folly of youth.

it's an awesome ride.

ps, do not enjoy a ride on my time machine, as you are banned due to circumstances.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: theinevitable on November 08, 2010, 07:13:51 pm
well, I just heard talk on the radio about how even compromise (keep some, get rid of others) on the tax cuts will be voted down by Republicans, because it's the Principle of the Thing that everyone should get tax cuts, no matter what. Also the health care bill where Democrats completely wussified it in order to please the Republicans, who still didn't vote for it.

a reasonable compromise would be a compromise where both parties get part of what they want, kind of like the compromises people work out, all over the world, when working with another group/person. I work out reasonable compromises in all sorts of situations. When I refuse to budge and compromise, everyone calls me an asshole/immature. Why doesn't this apply to political parties?
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: wombat on November 08, 2010, 07:26:21 pm
But it does: People are always calling the political parties out for being assholes.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: theinevitable on November 08, 2010, 07:39:12 pm
true.

I am making the error of thinking that politicians will start acting like grown-ups solving real problems. I thought through what "reasonable compromise" would result from, and no one is going to just wake up one day and get a Jimmy Stewart feeling in their heart and start being awesome. Especially not "every member of both parties, simultaneously, in both houses."


argh.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on November 08, 2010, 07:41:36 pm
I try to keep in mind that the average politician will spend any amount of money and do anything he/she can to avoid doing any real work, and that helps me keep things in perspective.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: jaydub on November 08, 2010, 07:48:05 pm
I try to keep in mind that the average politician will spend any amount of money and do anything he/she can to avoid doing any real work, and that helps me keep things in perspective.
Possibly the only way around this is to dump elections and have "appointment by lottery".  Most of us would hate this, so we'd work hard to get the business of government done so we could go home.  Kind of like the jury system.

On the other hand - graft, incompetence, navigating DC subway system.  Lobbyists would have a field day with the hayseeds.  Maybe since we'd tossed republican representation out on its ear we'd have to ban lobbyists too.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: arkabee on November 08, 2010, 09:27:41 pm
I am making the error of thinking that politicians will start acting like grown-ups solving real problems. I thought through what "reasonable compromise" would result from, and no one is going to just wake up one day and get a Jimmy Stewart feeling in their heart and start being awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVYDA5ko940&feature=related

watch this and you may ride my time machine due to punishment.


but seriously,
politics is bad enough in and of itself,
but it's the politicians who really make me feel like [redacted].
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: KeithHernandez on November 08, 2010, 10:00:04 pm
Well that's kinda what happens when both parties are governing from the fringes.

I swear I don't just want to yell at you Paul, but as someone on the "fringe" left:

HAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahAHHA

Have democrats even tried to repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell?  How did you feel about those massive bank reforms that followed them almost ruining our country and then us giving them shit loads of money?  Do you want to come over and do some of my legal drugs (I live in Colorado, but still)?  Those democrats forcing people to give their money to for profit insurance companies just went a little too far left for me!
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: littlefallsmets on November 08, 2010, 10:45:04 pm
Yeah, I think that even most conservatives if they're being honest will admit that, wherever they think the Republicans are trying to govern from, at the end of the day what the Democratic party actually tries to DO legislatively is if anything a little bit right-of-centre.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: jaydub on November 08, 2010, 11:23:58 pm
Yeah, I think that even most conservatives if they're being honest will admit that, wherever they think the Republicans are trying to govern from, at the end of the day what the Democratic party actually tries to DO legislatively is if anything a little bit right-of-centre.
Certainly that's the view of us from overseas.  The American political left is pretty right wing among Western governments.

Not that that's a bad thing, IMO.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: JorgeFabregas on November 09, 2010, 04:15:04 pm
Prop A (municipal income tax thingy) passed by a huge margin, although it lost in St. Louis and Kansas City. So the voters in suburban and rural Missouri have decided that us city-folk need to vote on our own taxes. We don't want to vote on our taxes! Heh. I guess there's a good chance that the taxes will be affirmed in the spring.

Prop B (anti-puppymill thngy) also passed. In a reversal of prop A, it passed because of the city vote. Now lawmakers are talking about repealing it because us city folk just don't know what we voted on (while rural folk apparently are experts on city taxes).
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/columns/the-platform/article_a4bb3aa0-eb8e-11df-bede-0017a4a78c22.html

Quote
Last May, seven months before voters had their say, rural legislators tried to preempt the vote by prohibiting citizen initiatives involving any aspect of agriculture. It was blatantly unconstitutional. But no fewer than five bills containing similar language were introduced.

Now that Proposition B, the so-called Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention Act, has been approved, lawmakers are gearing up to override it.

“Voters who voted on Proposition B did not understand what it does,” said state Rep. Tom Loehner, R-Koeltztown, chairman of the House Agriculture Committee.

Mr. Loehner, a hog farmer, sponsored one of those five bills to prohibit citizen initiatives on agriculture.

He uses the fact that it failed in 100 of the state’s 114 counties as justification.

“There’s a lot of people (in urban areas) who just do not understand agriculture,” he said.

We could make the reverse argument about other complex issues, but that misses the point.

Missouri’s urban areas are home to most of its population and most of its voters. The state constitution allows voters to “propose and enact or reject” laws.

That’s what happened with Proposition B. Nearly 61,000 more Missourians voted in favor of the initiative than voted against it.

Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: wombat on November 09, 2010, 05:18:49 pm
I think it's absolutely true that city folk don't understand agriculture. But obviously country folk don't understand that city folk don't think dogs are livestock, so that what they know about agriculture is beside the point.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: arkabee on November 09, 2010, 07:55:40 pm
if someone wants to raise dogs like livestock, hey, that's great.
just don't sell them as pets,
sell them as live stock.

because noone wants to buy a near feral, inbred, chronic fucked up dog at a pot (edit- hahah, pot store? ok, maybe they would... how about a pet store though)  store for 500 dollars.

maybe some people wouldn't mind eatin' them, though, but not for that markup.

i love hearing the 'breeders' whine (like the dogs they are 'breeding') about how the government is trying to interfere with their business practice. none of them give a shit that the government precludes me from making a profit running them down for cash.

the missouri thing is bullshit politics, all the way around.  i was listening to the ads for the vote all "season" coming out of the bootheel. 

it's not a rural/city issue.  i think it's a "these 'breeders' are giving me a shit load of money so i'm going to kiss their ass" thing or a "i'm going to make it seem to be a rural/city issue so i can make myself seem edgy and important and more 'conservative' and 'homey'" thing.

seriously, missouri, i was born in you.  do you want to be a state where 'people' 'breed' dogs like slaughter pigs to sell them to your kids for christmas, or do you want to be a state where people breed dogs?

i expect better of you, show me state.  i know you have to deal with Haiti Heights, but you don't have to deal with this bullshit too.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: JorgeFabregas on November 09, 2010, 08:13:03 pm
The agriculture argument comes in mainly because opponents of the prop said it was a slippery slope that would inevitably lead to heavy regulation of enclosed hog farms. Of course there's no ambiguity in the prop about the animal in question. So the idea is that now that Missouri voters have shown that they are open to regulation regarding some animals, outside animal activists will swoop in and force them to change their laws regarding all other animals (not that I would be opposed to this, but I know the treatment of dogs and the treatment of livestock has no connection in most people's minds).

Apparently they made the same argument against the banning of cockfights in the nineties.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: wombat on November 09, 2010, 08:40:58 pm
if someone wants to raise dogs like livestock, hey, that's great.
just don't sell them as pets,
sell them as live stock.

because noone wants to buy a near feral, inbred, chronic fucked up dog at a pot (edit- hahah, pot store? ok, maybe they would... how about a pet store though)  store for 500 dollars.

That is a really good way to frame the issue.

I totally sympathize with people who are afraid of extremist animal activists. For some of those people, their dream world is one where no one owns a pet or has any contact or relationship with any animal at all. Those people are totally my enemy. I can hardly see how that's a reason to allow people to breed dogs in any fucked up way they want, however.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Choop on November 09, 2010, 09:14:08 pm
don't get kicked
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: arkabee on November 09, 2010, 09:28:52 pm
That is a really good way to frame the issue.

another great way to frame it would have been for those in favor of the legislation to have met with, visited, and discussed the issue with the puppy factory owners and operators.

and filmed it.

and then shown the film.

i'm not talking about the puppies, or where they live.

and i'm not talking about editing it to make the people look bad.

no, i mean the voters should really get to know the real 'people' who would be economically impacted by the legislation.

but then i think it's lazy to hate a nameless, faceless group of people and just know them by some simple and fallible label.  the correct way to hate a man is to know his name and how he smells and how he spits chaw in the parking space so when you get out of the car you step in it as you go and put his motherfuck*ng cart into the cart return.

dammit i am worked up, wtf was i thinking being in this thread?
you know when i joined touamb? around the 04 election.  i think we can guess why i joined touamb rather than, say, fascistsdressedasbunnies.org or freethinkerswhoreallyjustdontwanttopayt axes.org instead.  it's because i hate mycardiologist and want his new pool to never be payed for by my forthcoming massive stroke.


also, and more importantly:

asherdan is rad.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: miles on January 04, 2011, 06:09:55 am
This thread isn't technically dead, is it? Didn't know where else to post this (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/01/us/politics/01scotus.html).

Quote from: Justice Roberts
Each political party has found it easy to turn on a dime from decrying to defending the blocking of judicial nominations, depending on their changing political fortunes.

Ohhhhh shiiiiiiit!
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: jaydub on January 04, 2011, 11:30:17 pm
I didn't know Captain Obvious wore black robes.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: lprkn on January 05, 2011, 10:39:10 am
Justice Obvious to you, mister.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Choop on January 19, 2011, 11:25:15 pm
Quote
Breaking News Alert
The New York Times
Wed, January 19, 2011 -- 6:09 PM ET
-----

House Votes to Repeal Health Care Law

The House on Wednesday voted to repeal the Democrats'
landmark health care overhaul, in a largely symbolic step
that the new Republican majority said marked the beginning of
an all-out effort to dismantle President Obama's signature
domestic policy achievement.

Leaders of the Democratic-controlled Senate have said that
they will not act on the repeal measure, effectively
scuttling it.

A House majority voted 245 to 189 to repeal the measure.

ugh. at least the senate seems a little saner here.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on January 20, 2011, 03:36:24 am
I had read that was coming a little while ago. Fuck those guys.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Doc on January 22, 2011, 11:22:25 am
Seriously, you're paying these dudes to make 'largely symbolic gestures'?
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: pmcd9 on January 22, 2011, 03:22:38 pm
Seriously, you're paying these dudes to make 'largely symbolic gestures'?

Well yeah, that and obstruct any real progress.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on January 22, 2011, 04:13:34 pm
Seriously, you're paying these dudes to make 'largely symbolic gestures'?

I don't know how they do things where you are from, but around here their main job is symbolic gestures. For reals.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Doc on January 23, 2011, 08:20:16 am
Yeah, things are pretty much the same all over. It just felt worth singling out.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on January 23, 2011, 03:46:17 pm
Supposedly (from recent reading) they're going to work on getting rid of the filibuster, or at least pull some of its teeth. To me, this would be a good thing.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Choop on January 23, 2011, 09:06:57 pm
would be nice if the filibuster required actual filibustering. there's a separate single-senator hold procedure that also needs to get the fuck gone
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on January 23, 2011, 10:54:38 pm
would be nice if the filibuster required actual filibustering. there's a separate single-senator hold procedure that also needs to get the fuck gone

Yes - the thing I read said they were starting with that. I would cross my fingers but they get cramped when I leave them like that for too long.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: arkabee on February 02, 2011, 06:27:12 am
i still read this thread title as "Hey everybody, let's ruin a country!"
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: pmcd9 on February 02, 2011, 01:50:49 pm
i still read this thread title as "Hey everybody, let's ruin a country!"

Either/Or.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: jay-ell on February 02, 2011, 04:50:35 pm
i still read this thread title as "Hey everybody, let's ruin a country!"

Me, too.
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: Nabubrush on February 02, 2011, 07:28:05 pm
i still read this thread title as "Hey everybody, let's ruin a country!"

In my mind, it's "let's run a country right into the fuck*ng ground".
Title: Re: Hey everybody, let's run a country!
Post by: greenkoolayd on February 14, 2011, 04:17:41 pm
how to become president of the united states (http://thecontentfarm.tumblr.com/post/3063353637/how-to-become-president-of-the-united-states)